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Episode 701: Rebroadcast Invest in Others – Interview with Shannon Miles – Part 2

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Join us today for Part 2 of the Interview with Shannon Miles, Author of "The Third Option"...

This is Part 2 of the interview I had with author and CEO Shannon Miles of Belay.  

Shannon Miles is the author of the new book "The Third Option" about not being forced to choose between family and career but pursuing a third way so that you can have both.  In today's interview, Shannon and I talk about how servant leadership is a vital part of serving others.  We also discuss how to deal with the possible isolation you can feel when you pursue a non-traditional option for your career path.  Shannon also gives some advice on how to be a good mentor to others.

Join in on the Chat below.

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00:00:00 Thanks for joining us on episode 701 of the inspired stewardship podcast, a special rebroadcast of episode one Oh six, an interview with shed and mills. I'm Shannon miles from ballet. I challenge you to discover your calling and find your third option so you can be empowered to live every day. You need to know yourself to be inspired. There are third places all over the place that you can just be around people and connect in your community.
00:00:34 There's no, no reason to feel isolated when you're working from home these days. Welcome, and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself,
00:00:59 invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world. In today's interview with Shannon miles from ballet, I asked Shannon about servant leadership and investing in others. How you can invest in others, even in ways that aren't following the typical career path and how to find community. Even if you work in a nontraditional environment and lots more. One reason I like to bring you great interviews.
00:01:53 Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial.
00:02:19 There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen to your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books. The same way you're listening to this podcast. Shannon miles is the CEO of belay, inc. A inc 500 fastest growing company and winner of culture,
00:02:48 IQ and entrepreneurs. Number one, company, culture awards. Since 2010, the company has grown to nearly 700 team members and nearly 1000 clients on a daily basis. Whether through team development or balanced mentoring, Shannon is passionate about serving others and inspiring them to live life more fully while firmly remaining her own worst critic. While on Necker Island with Richard Branson,
00:03:18 she learned that if your dreams don't scare you, they simply aren't big enough. Shannon lives in Atlanta with her family. Shannon, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me Shannon. I know that one of the core values that you have at belay is the passion to serve others. How does having a servant mindset lead to investing in others in a way that is both empowering and enabling Servant leadership is an underpinning for us at belay.
00:03:54 We feel like our vision is to help you achieve your vision. And what that means for us is our clients have a vision for what their business or their nonprofit or their organization needs to look like. They have a vision for what their individual lives need to look like. Maybe it's simply just having time to go see the soccer games that you haven't been able to see.
00:04:17 And so we are in a position where we can serve them and help them achieve their vision. It's a very practical way that we feel like we're changing the world. Also, we're serving our contractors, those who have entrusted us to bring them opportunity and clients to serve. Like we need to be there to support and equip them so that they can achieve their vision and live out the type of life that they're called to live in.
00:04:44 And the same is true for our team. I really am a firm believer that the customers will only be as happy as your team is. So we spend a lot of time and money investing in our team members and our culture because first of all, there's amazing people. And second of all, we feel like we are called to serve them. And sometimes that service is you're doing an amazing job.
00:05:10 And sometimes that service looks like let's review your job description. There's some gaps I'm noticing, and I want to help you bridge those gaps and your performance like that's serving too. Um, so regardless of who we're interacting with, and it goes for vendors to like, we want to, we just want to serve in a way that even if their relationship ends,
00:05:33 they're better off for having worked with belay, we feel like that's part of our storage ship. And I think that's interesting. And it's important to point out what, what you just said about serving others and having that servant mindset doesn't always mean saying yes to everything or not holding people accountable. It is about serving them. And sometimes that means saying something that's difficult to say,
00:06:00 because that is truly serving them. Yeah. I mean, here's the deal with accountability. We are very, very results driven organization. And I think that's been one of the key components to our rapid growth. If you don't hold your team members accountable, first of all, you're doing them a disservice because if they're consistently missing the Mark and you're frustrated and you're not talking about it with them,
00:06:25 that's your fault. That's, you're the one with the problem, not them, but if you've identified what the gaps are and put together a plan to help them bridge the gaps, then the onus is on them and they have the opportunity to do a better job. They have the opportunity to determine maybe this isn't the right fit for me, or you have to let them go.
00:06:47 One of those three things happens. But what we've seen in any of those scenarios is, is isolated. As you think, a situation like that might be your team knows your team is aware if you're not holding people accountable. And that affects the morale and the contribution and the culture of, of everybody around that individual. I would just encourage your listeners to have those courageous conversations,
00:07:13 not just for the sake of your bottom line and your results, but because you're working with people and it will have an impact on your culture. If that's not addressed over time, Thinking about the folks that are looking for that third option, if someone is struggling because they want to invest in others, they do want to serve others, but they want to do it in a way that maybe isn't in perfect alignment with that.
00:07:43 You know, I'm going to put this in air quotes, typical career path, how can they best identify what other options may work for them? Is there a process that they can or should use A lot of research? You know, there are a lot of legitimate work at home opportunities that could be the conduit for your third option. And there are a lot of scans.
00:08:09 I think leveraging your social networks would be a great place to start. I mean, if you find somebody who's doing something similar to what you desire, talk to them, see how they got the opportunities, see what they like and don't like about it. But I would do a lot of research on the front end because once you finally decided, okay,
00:08:26 I'm going to make this, this change. You know, you've put a lot of energy into it and you want to make sure that it's, that you're as informed as possible about the good and the bad of what this new working situation's going to be. I think there are probably some professional organizations that you can join that are affiliated with what you're interested in going into.
00:08:47 Those are some really practical things that you can do. And I just, I think, just do your homework, do the research and don't rush into it. You know, you mentioned, you know, in the pre-interview that we're talking about your side hustle, you know, a lot of people have that these days. And that is a way to validate that you're onto something before you make a leap,
00:09:08 because you don't want to just pursue your third option thinking something's going, going to pan out. When in reality you've had blind spots all over the place. So I would say, do the homework In the third option, you talk a bit about the isolation that people can feel when they do work from home or when they do virtual work. So how can people find ways to invest in others outside of work that can help them feel connected and in community,
00:09:38 if they're working in that virtual environment, I will, I will answer that question, but I will first say that if you work from home, it doesn't mean you have to work alone. I am constantly connecting with my team members, networking partners, clients, contractors all day. And so you can do, you can do it in such a way that you still have real relationships that you're building with people that you're working with.
00:10:07 Video chat is a super easy, free, obvious way to make those connections. There's just some other layer of nonverbal communication that you can pick up on. When you're video chatting with somebody, we use zoom. There's plenty of platforms out there. So I would say the two are not mutually exclusive. As far as building relationships out of the community. I tell a story of,
00:10:33 um, somebody named Holly that came to work for belay. She had just moved from Ohio because of her husband's job transfer. She found ballet. She started working here. She did a fantastic job. We get together. Most of us are here in the Atlanta Metro area. So we'll get together for happy hours or business meetings, but not every day,
00:10:54 right? It's, you know, maybe once a month, you may have some reason to get together with somebody face to face, but that was really difficult for Holly because she had just moved to this new community. They weren't an apartment until they determined where they wanted to live, you know, after buying a home, all of that. And, and she quit because she really was missing the opportunity to connect with people on a daily basis.
00:11:20 So she went to go work for a hospital in the area. She was going there, you know, to the office every day, supporting the CEO, like a really great position for her. The problem was she was working all the time and in her pursuit to develop relationships through work, she ended up not being able to have the kind of relationships that she wanted because she was working all the time.
00:11:46 And so once they finally got settled into their house in a neighborhood and their kids were plugged into school, the relationships that she wanted pursue, she didn't have time for. So she ended up coming back to work for us and, and found that she could have the time and flexibility to still have those relationships in her community, through her church and, and the people that she wanted to connect with.
00:12:12 And not just the default relationships at work, I will say she's a great, like, she has strong relationships with the people that she works with too. But, um, it's not a choice that she has to make any more. She can have them on both fronts. And I do love using technology to leverage some of that as well. You know,
00:12:30 I work from home, even though it's a solar preneur kind of business that my wife and I run together, you an entrepreneurial business. I still I've have conversations every day with people. So remaining connected through technology has been really helpful. And I think he needed to know yourself too. Like if you are just craving being around, people go to Starbucks.
00:12:50 I mean, there, there are third places all over the place that you can just be around people and connect in your community. There's no, no reason to feel isolated when you're working from home these days. So one of the things we talked about last week was this idea of finding mentors, going out and finding people to invest in you through mentorship.
00:13:14 But let's kind of flip that if you're in a position, how can you go about being a mentor to others? And especially, I think a lot of people don't think they're ready to be a mentor. So how can they be a mentor? Even if they think they're not ready, You're never ready. You're never ready to be a mentor because you're always learning.
00:13:36 You're always growing. You're never going to be perfect. And so there's never necessarily all the boxes that you can check to say, now I will mentor. I would be afraid of that person to be honest with you. But for me, I created a formal mentoring program in 2016 and took four women business owners through the program. It, we met every month for three hours.
00:14:00 We did two retreats. They read a book a month, they provided a net out. There was homework in between. It was an intense program. So that's one extreme. I think another extreme is just finding somebody who you see a lot of potential in and just saying, Hey, can we grab a coffee? Like, I'd love to learn more about you and what your dreams are and see if there's anything I can do to help.
00:14:22 You know, it can be as informal as that. I think one thing that's intimidating about mentoring that doesn't have to be the case. I don't think you have to mentor forever. Like it's, it can be a pretty, um, intense, exhausting is going to sound more negative than, I mean for it to, but when you're pouring into other people constantly,
00:14:40 sometimes you just need a break from that. And I think the people that I mentor while I still have a relationship with them, they don't, they don't call me every week. So it's not like a forever thing. And I think when you look at it that way, it seems a little bit more doable. It can be for a season of time and you can still make a huge impact,
00:14:59 even though it's not somebody that you're going to be formally mentoring, mentoring forever. You can connect with Shannon by following her on Instagram. She's at Shannon K miles. And of course there'll be links in the show notes or connect with her via the third option on Instagram as well at my third option, be sure to check out the info from Shannon's book over@mythirdoptiondotcomorcheckoutbelaysolutions.com
00:15:31 to find out more about working with their company belay. They're actually looking to hire great people now as virtual assistants. So if you're interested in maybe pursuing that as your third option, go there and apply to join the team. Shannon, is there anything you'd like to add? I'm very grateful for the opportunity to be on this interview and I hope that it helps them.
00:15:55 Somebody who's feeling a little stuck, a little uneasy maybe. And what they're doing to, to just make a change in life is really short. And it's such a cliche to say it, but it's true. I would say to the listener and get your ducks in a row and go for it. Thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you.
00:16:21 Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode, do me a favor, go over to facebook.com/inspired stewardship and like our Facebook page and market that you'd like to get notifications from us so that we can connect with you on Facebook and make sure that we're serving you to the best of our abilities with time and tips there until next time,
00:17:05 invest your time, your talent and your treasures, develop your influence and impact the world.

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In today's episode, I ask Shannon about:

  • Servant Leadership and investing in others...
  • How you can invest in others even when following an atypical career path...
  • How to find community even working in a non-traditional environment...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

I think you need to know yourself too if you are just craving being around people, go to Starbucks. There are third places all over the place you can be around people even working from home. - Shannon Miles

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You can connect with Shannon  using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

Episode 696: Rebroadcast Invest in Yourself – Interview with Shannon Miles – Part 1

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Join us today for Part 1 of the Rebroadcast of the Interview with Shannon Miles Author of "The Third Option"...

This is Part 1 of the interview I had with author and CEO Shannon Miles of Belay.  

Shannon Miles is the author of the new book "The Third Option" about not being forced to choose between family and career but pursuing a third way so that you can have both.  In today's interview, Shannon and I talk about how you can have both a career and family and what you should do to prepare yourself for a third option.  As well, we talk about mentors and resources that she recommends you use to prepare yourself to take the leap to living your third option. 

Join in on the Chat below.

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00:00:00 Thanks for joining us on episode 696 of the inspired stewardship podcast, a special rebroadcast of episode one Oh one with Shannon mills. I'm Shannon miles from ballet. I challenged you to discover your calling and find your third option so you can be empowered to live every day to the fullest. One way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend and Scott Mader.
00:00:35 We just had a conversation. We have a nine year old son and a 12 year old daughter, and we just had to have that conversation with our son this week. Cause he, he came up with his magic trick that he just could not wait to show it. My husband was on a video call and he's like, buddy, that was not an emergency scenarios where you get her up.
00:00:56 Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasure for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world In today's interview with Shannon miles from ballet.
00:01:33 I asked Shannon about how you don't have to choose between career and family and how you can have both what you can do to invest in yourself and be ready to explore the third option and how to find good mentors and lots more. One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others.
00:01:59 Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible, go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from.
00:02:24 And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books. The same way you're listening to this podcast. Shannon miles is the CEO of belay, inc a inc 500 fastest growing company and winner of culture, IQ and entrepreneurs. Number one,
00:02:51 company, culture awards since 2010, the company has grown to nearly 700 team members and nearly 1000 clients on a daily basis. Whether through team development or balanced mentoring, Shannon is passionate about serving others and inspiring them to live life more fully while firmly remaining her own worst critic. While on Necker Island with Richard Branson, she learned that if your dreams don't scare you,
00:03:20 they simply aren't big enough. Shannon lives in Atlanta with her family. Shannon, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me Your book. The third option lays out that men and women don't have to choose between career and family, but can have both and be a success. So when we think about third options, why do you think our society and culture is often so fixated on the either or the take it or leave it mentality instead of recognizing that there's always a third option.
00:04:05 I think our society in America is so driven that there seem to be only two obvious choices. One is, you know, go to college, get the job in the company, climb the ladder, move on to the next position, work, work, work, or abandoned all of that to have a family. And there's so much space in between to craft either your own business or your own work from home opportunity,
00:04:34 you know, part time, full time that isn't tied to going to a corporation, but the people just don't talk about that. It's not necessarily a sexy way to, to live, but when you look at, you know, large corporations, there seems to be this big appeal, like that's the right path. Or if you don't do that, then you just need to stay home.
00:04:54 So when someone begins to have that dream of exploring a third option for themselves, what are the most important things for them to do to invest and prepare themselves before making that leap? You know, when I talk about a third option, it's often the beginning of a journey and not something that can just happen overnight. I think there's two different types of people that the third option appeals to.
00:05:23 It is somebody who is in that first scenario. I just described, you know, working in a corporation, burning the candle at both ends and not having enough time and energy to focus on the things that are actually really important. And those people, you know, oftentimes pursuing a third option, which is, you know, virtual working may have to take a pay cut to make that transition for,
00:05:48 for the quality of life that they desire. And so sometimes that can't just happen overnight. You have to make a plan, you have to set a budget. Sometimes you have to update your resume cause been in that position for a while. And then the second audience that this appeals to is, is the other scenario. I talked about somebody who maybe made the decision to stay home with children,
00:06:08 be a stay at home. Dad, stay at home mom, or maybe they're staying home because they're caring for aging parents. We're seeing that more and more with the baby boomers at the ages that they are. Sometimes you have both, which is really tough. But in that scenario, what I've found in my research is sometimes there's still something missing. Even though,
00:06:28 you know, you made that decision for the right reasons to care for your family. If you're geared toward a profession or a vocation that that feeling and that calling doesn't go away just because you decided to stay home. And so for those types of people, sometimes the planning and preparation is around coming up with some childcare or care for your aging parents. Or once again,
00:06:51 updating that resume, maybe it got a little stale, maybe it's time to brush up on September some technologies that would enable you to live out the third option. So I think there are definitely steps to be taken in either scenario, but it doesn't happen overnight. Hm. And again, I I've talked before on the show about how I made the leap to running my own business and I would agree fully.
00:07:16 We did almost two years of prep work before we felt like we were ready to make that leap. Uh, my wife and I, you know, making sure we had financial things in order we had, like you said, just life care stuff in order, there's so much to take care of before you do it, but you can do that. Absolutely.
00:07:36 Somebody that I interviewed for the book said, I actually had to retrain my family when I started going back to work. Because you know, you just settle into your routines and your rhythms and ended up handling things in your life when you're not working that you simply can't do. Once you start taking on a part time job or full time jobs, there's almost a retraining of family that has to happen sometimes too.
00:08:00 And I talk about in the book, he can't, he can't do it alone. So you need that support. Yeah. I'm laughing because hanging on the door to my office right now is a do not disturb sign because that's my cue to the family that, Hey, you can't just come walking in right now. Something's going on. I need uninterrupted times.
00:08:21 We just had a conversation. We have a nine year old son and a 12 year old daughter. And we just had to have that conversation with our son this week. Cause he, he came up with his magic trick that he just could not wait to show my husband was on a video call and he's like, buddy, that was not an emergency.
00:08:36 That is no areas where you could interrupt. Exactly. If you're not bleeding and you're not in fear for your life and the house isn't on fire. Don't interrupt. Shannon. One thing you talk about in the book is the idea of having good mentors and actually go through and talk about some of your mentors that you've had over the years. And I particularly loved the mentor.
00:09:02 Who's who asked that question? Is this something you want me to help you solve? Or do you want me to listen so I can tell you, you know, that's something I've used a what back when I was in management, I use that with employees, but I use that when communicating with my wife and my son as well. Can you talk a bit about how people can find a good mentor for themselves as they begin to invest in themselves?
00:09:27 How can they find those people? You have to be intentional and seek them out very rarely will a mentor identify you and see potential in you and say, let me invest my time and energy into you. Like you have to want it and you have to find it. Oftentimes it's somebody that you work with who emulates the type of leader that you want to become and they may carve out time to invest in you.
00:09:55 So there are formal mentoring programs out there that are vocation specific or, you know, maybe through your church or radical mentoring is one that my husband went through. That's a program that's becoming more and more popular nationwide. It's pretty prevalent here in the Atlanta area, but they're out there. I think that the key is to seek them out in a funny story about that mentoring in particular sod,
00:10:20 it, she was my boss and by nature of, you know, there's me reporting to her, right. I leaned into her pretty heavy and I reconnected with her because of the book. And I wanted to send her a book and thank her for her investment in me. And so we ended up FaceTiming recently and she said that her daughter read the book and was cracking up.
00:10:39 She was like, mom, you have sat on us at home all the time. So it does apply to, to home and work life because sometimes, and my husband's a verbal processor. And so sometimes it's wants to talk about an idea or a problem, but doesn't necessarily need my input or he just needs me to listen. And so, yeah,
00:11:00 I've used that at home too. That's a good reminder that we don't have to solve all the problems Well, and, and my wife is the verbal processor in our relationship. So very early in the marriage I learned, she's not always coming to me to solve the problem. Sometimes she just needs to talk about it and I just need to shut up and listen and say,
00:11:20 okay, that's it. That's what she wanted. So she's happy. I'm happy. You know, that's how that works. And I'm not sure if it's this this way in your relationship, but for Brian and I, he's the visionary, the big picture dreamer, you know, all these ideas all the time. And I'm more like the, how are we going to do that girl?
00:11:38 And I've learned to like, um, just to listen to those and not immediately go to how are we going to make this work? Because not all the ideas were ever going to come to fruition. He just needs a safe space to talk about them. I think, yeah, the same is true for problems. Absolutely. That's a, that's a really good point.
00:11:58 Shannon. If you had to share your top two or maybe three resources that everyone should use to invest in themselves, especially as they're kind of exploring this idea of living a third option, what, what are some of those resources, you know, other than your book, of course. Oh, of course. Well, let's just make that obvious. Right.
00:12:21 You know, I think there's never been an easier time to branch off and create your own things. I mean, the internet is there's no shortage of information there that will equip and resource you to do all the due diligence. You need to start your own business to learn a new industry, a new skill you can learn to code. Like there's so much available to us that if you're passionate about something you can find a way to learn about and fuel that passion for me,
00:12:51 I love podcasts. I love hearing other business owners and the successes and failures that they've had. So I listened to how I built this. It's an NPR podcast. Fantastic. The Andy Stanley leadership podcast is an incredible resource. If you're thinking more tactically for the third option, lynda.com is a great resource that has a repository of training videos. That if you're somebody who maybe has been out of the workforce for a while and want to get brushed up on some of the technologies that have emerged in your absence,
00:13:28 that's a great resource to find out about specific applications and how they work. You can connect with Shannon by following her on Instagram. She's at Shannon K miles. And of course there'll be links in the show notes or connect with her via the third option on Instagram as well at my third option, be sure to check out the info from Shannon's book over@mythirdoptiondotcomorcheckoutbelaysolutions.com to find out more about working with their company belay.
00:14:04 They're actually looking to hire great people now as virtual assistants. So if you're interested in maybe pursuing that as your third option, go there and apply to join the team. Shannon, is there anything you'd like to add? I'm very grateful for the opportunity to be on this interview and I hope that it helps them. Somebody who's feeling a little stuck, a little uneasy,
00:14:29 maybe in what they're doing to, to just make a change in life is really short. And it's such a cliche to say it, but it's true. I would say to the listener and get your ducks in a row and go for it. Thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you. Don't forget. We're running a contest this week in honor of the hundredth episode,
00:14:50 which came out last, go over to inspired stewardship.com/giveaway, and you can enter to win three books and a 30 minute coaching session. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode,
00:15:23 please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate. All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures, develop your influence and impact the world.

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In today's episode, I ask Shannon about:

  • How people don't have to choose between career and family, and how you can have success in both...
  • What you should do to invest in yourself so that you can explore your Third Option...
  • How to find good mentors...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

Surround yourself with like-minded people who want to help and have your best interest in mind. Connect with others who call you out, cheer you on, and genuinely love you. - Shannon Miles

Click to Tweet

You can connect with Shannon using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

Episode 691: Impact the World – Interview with Alain Hunkins – Part 4

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Join us today for Part 4 of the Interview with Alain Huskins author of Cracking the Leadership Code: Three Secrets to Building Strong Leaders...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with speaker, author and leadership maven Alain Hunkins.  

In today’s interview with Alain, he shares with you what a peak moment is and why you should care.  Alain also talks with you about making a dent in the universe.  Alain also shares the legacy he wants to leave and lots more…  

Join in on the Chat below.

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00:00:00 Thanks for joining me on episode 691 of the inspired stewardship. Yeah. Hi, I'm Ella Hawkins, author of cracking the leadership code. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to lead well is key.
00:00:26 And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader, we oftentimes don't think about what are we doing to create these emotional experiences that wow them. And what we want to do is create the blight. Wow. That people go, Oh my gosh, this is the best place in the world to work.
00:00:56 I can't imagine working somewhere else. So an example would be first day on the job, what are you doing so that people come away at the end of that experience. So that's a peak moment that whole day as a people. Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be,
00:01:18 then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast. Cool. Learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world Today's interview with Alan. He shares with you what a peak moment is and why you should care. A lot. Also talks with you about making a dent in the universe.
00:01:49 And a lunch also shares the legacy who wants to leave in the world. And lots more. One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read.
00:02:12 And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible, go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen to your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books.
00:02:41 The same way you're listening to this podcast. Ellen Hudkins is a consultant trainer, coach and speaker around the complex topic of leadership. His recent book cracking the leadership code three secrets to building strong leaders was released earlier this year, over his 20 plus year career LN has led over 2000 groups in 25 countries, including groups at Walmart, Pfizer city group, GE state farm IBM GM and Microsoft Alon has designed and facilitated seminars on many leadership topics,
00:03:16 including team building, conflict management, communication, peak performance, innovation, engagement, and change. Alon also serves on the faculty of Duke corporate education and is published in many of the most prominent business and leadership sources, including fast company Forbes, inc, and more welcome to the show. And, and those are both forms of feedback once just internal and one's external.
00:03:45 So they're both valuable. Um, from that same point of view, one of the things that, and again, listeners will laugh as they hear this. Cause I preach all the time. The idea of if you are not reflecting on your learning and, and you know, constantly do that plan, execute, reflect, revise, plan, execute, reflect,
00:04:05 provide. If you just simply lived your life that way. If, if we all did all the time, it'd be amazing what we could do. Now, that being said, you don't always, you can't always do that. You're not always perfect at it. We screw it up too. Um, all of us do, I don't care how,
00:04:20 how good you are. You, you mess it up, but the more often you can do that, the better it, it gets whatever it is. You know, it literally could be anything in, in that, in that Blake, whether that's communicating with your spouse, whether that's leading your company, whether that's, you know, recording a record,
00:04:38 I don't care at all. And also Scott, I'm really excited to be here with you today. So one of the topics that you share in the book is this concept of peak moments. Would you unpack a little bit about what is a peak moment and how can these make a company a better place to work and impact, you know, our company,
00:05:00 our employees, our customers. Sure. Yeah. So the idea of peak moments comes from the idea of the experience economy. So we live in an experience economy. So all of us as customers know about the customer experience and employees have the employee experience. And we talked earlier about removing friction, you know, and I talk about the customer experience and we ask,
00:05:23 when I do work around this, I ask people, okay, give me an example of a company that's made it a really good customer experience. And the company that always comes up of course, is Amazon because everyone knows what one click means and it becomes the benchmark for everything else. Right? And so we think about the experience and experience. Isn't just,
00:05:40 you know, you don't just buy a product and you don't just buy a service and experience is actually over the course of time. It's all the touch points that you have with a company, whether it's finding out about them on their website, like how easy is their website to navigate finding the product? Let's say it's product in this case, instead of a service find the Product that you want,
00:05:58 that, you know, your ability to order, it can be ordered with one click or two or 20, whatever it might be and then delivery and then the quality of it, and then how they follow up and personalizing it. So realizing that in the life cycle of an experience, not all moments are weighted as equally as other ones. So I actually remember learning about this.
00:06:18 I got my start thinking about customer experience because back when I was in college, I used to wait tables in the summer. And a funny thing about waiting tables, you know, it managing it is you have to manage the Diner's experience and not all moments are created equally. So for example, when a diners come to sit at the table, the expectation is there'll be greeted by a server within 60 to 90 seconds,
00:06:44 right? So that's a 69. You have a window of opportunity. And that if you come in that time, you suddenly, you meet their expectations about hi, welcome to our restaurant, yada, yada, yada, right? Do all that stuff. Now, if people know that that's where they want promptness yet notice, imagine you just finished eating the last bite of your entree and you've just finished.
00:07:05 And you put that and you put your fork and knife down. And someone in SWAT came by and picked up your plate. You're like, Whoa, Whoa, slow down. So notice how those aren't. In fact, people will be happy to linger for a certain amount of time after the heat. So that first 60, 90 seconds is a different,
00:07:22 it's a different experience, right? It's a different moment in time. So I bring up that example because as we think about employees in the workplace, we oftentimes don't think about what are we doing to create these emotional experiences that wow them, because what we want to do is create the light and wow that people go, Oh my gosh, this is the best place in the world to work.
00:07:42 I can't imagine working somewhere else. So an example would be first day on the job. No. How, what are you doing so that people come away at the end of that experience? So that's a peak moment. That whole day is a peak moment because people are porous. Everyone, you know, it's like opening day, everyone wants to believe they pick the winner.
00:08:01 I was like, wait, what are you doing to support that? And every little thing you do either adds or subtracts to their perception of what you are. So, so what are you doing to greet them? Did you make them feel welcome? Did you give them an orientation that made sense? Or did you run them past 90 people who they'll never know to deal with?
00:08:21 Or did they have, I mean, I mean, in my book, I tell this story about this guy who ended up quitting the company after three days, but like literally, like he had it, the first thing he had to do, first of all, the person who hired him didn't show up. And then he had to spend two hours on line security to get a badge,
00:08:36 you know, and then he had to go upstairs and wait for someone from it to get them a laptop. And that didn't work and it was everything. Again, you have to think of the thing. And you're like, my gosh, this was the worst mistake. And he literally lasted two days before he quit. And that actually is not that uncommon.
00:08:49 So I bring this up because if we can start to, first of all, that just takes this metacognition understanding of, you know, getting out of your own. This is empathy, right? It's stepping into the shoes of your employees, what are they going through? And if you were them, what would make you go wow. And starting to build some more of those wow.
00:09:07 Experiences into that whole process. So that's what peak experiences are all about. So One of the things that I ask everybody is to share some of their top resources or principles, ideas that allow us as, as leaders, as people to really impact the world and make a dent on the universe is, is how I've always loved to phrase it. So what are some of those ideas or resources that you would share with folks if they really want to impact the world?
00:09:40 Cool. You know, I love the idea of denting a dent in the universe because I don't know when I first heard that I used to think, Oh, that's big, but the cool thing is like, we all get to make our own dents and you know, it's hard. And so the thing is make your own den. And I think in order for you to make your own dent,
00:09:56 you need to be clear on who you are and why you do what you do. So the first place that I would counsel anyone, if you want to make a dent in the universe is do some work around clarifying what are your own values? What's your own vision, what's your own mission for what you're trying to do, because without that, you might spend a lot of time,
00:10:17 energy denting away. It's something that actually turns out to be that wasn't your dent in the first place, you know, seriously. I mean, it's amazing how many people like coach now who might be mid-career even late career professionals to go, you know what? I kind of got into this because my dad was in this field and I thought I wanted to,
00:10:34 and they're now 60 years old and they're going, wow, I wish I had done something different. So yeah. Or to success on what it was on the wrong wall. Yeah, exactly. So it's getting really clear. And that also, when you have the clarity around your mission, your vision, your values, then it makes decision making a lot easier because suddenly you're going,
00:10:55 yeah, I could do this, but that would get them. I'll give you some examples from my own life. So one of the things that was important to me when, when I had kids with my wife was, you know, because of the work I do, I had a choice because the work that I do is if I do more of it,
00:11:09 I make more money. Like the more days I'm out working with clients, the more money I make. Well, there's always more clients. There's always more money, but there's not always more time. So when we had kids, I made, we made some real conscious choices. I'm going to choose time over money. So when both kids were born,
00:11:23 it took three months off because I'm self employed, unpaid. So it was like, that was, that was the choice. I mean, budgeted for it, but I would never trade that back in a heartbeat. You know, another thing that we have for our family is adventure and new experiences and growth and learning. So we made a choice and two years ago we moved abroad.
00:11:43 We lived in Europe and now there was finally before we got on there. Um, we moved back last week. We were living in the Netherlands for two years. Like that is an experience that is ultimately priceless me, you know? And so it's just finding out what are the things that are going to motivate you. So I had start with your dent.
00:12:00 I would definitely start figuring out what's the dent that you want to make. And then once you figure that out, figuring out who might be denting in the same neighborhood, because I think another thing we tend to think is that, Oh, I have to figure this out on my own. Please don't figure it on your own. Somebody else. Yes,
00:12:15 you are unique and wonderful and lovable. And someone else is probably doing something enough similar that their success has left clues. So try to figure out who they are and what they're doing and learn from them and ask for help. I know it's amazing. Um, one of my mentors, the Dan pink, you might know Dan pink, he's got, he's working on a new book about regret and one of the biggest,
00:12:37 and he's doing this whole world regret project where people can go online. I think it's called world regret.com. Anyway, you can look it up and you can actually plug in your answers. Cause he's, he's, he's getting research for his new book, but I was just reading through, he's got regrets from people all over the world. And one of the biggest regrets I've seen numerous times as I've seen individual contributors,
00:12:56 they said one of my big regrets is I didn't ask for help sooner. And I think a lot of us it's the ego. It gets in the way. So I'd say those are a couple of, if you do those two things, you'll be, you'll be in good shape to start denting in the right place with the right people. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever seen it,
00:13:12 but there's a book called the, uh, top five regrets of the dying. It was written by a hospice nurse. And she talks about the thing that, you know, asking all of these people who are basically, you know, on their death bed literally, um, and asking them what their regrets were. And of course, none of them are things about I regretted.
00:13:32 I didn't go to work more often or I didn't make more money. It's all about relationships and people and connection. Um, you know, that that's, that's the things that we miss. So similar, similar idea. I'll have to look for that with, uh, with, uh, Dan pink. I do, I do love his stuff. So,
00:13:49 so Elaine, if you could travel into the far future, now we're going to ask the easy questions we've been given the hard ones all, all, all week. Uh, if you could travel into the far future and look back on your life, what impact do you hope that you've had on the world? Well, I'll go back to the question we just talked about,
00:14:08 which is, you know, so again, getting clear on your values and your mission and your vision. So I have a very clear mission. I've had it since 1994 and it hasn't changed a lot. So my mission is to create a vibrant and alive world like kindling, the fire brilliance and people. And so if I look back in my life,
00:14:22 my, I would be happy if I have kindled the world where there are more vibrant, alive, people who have access to the resources to make their own lives, their own family's lives and their own communities lives a better place to live and work in play. I like that. I like that mission. So what's coming next for you. As you continue down this path,
00:14:44 you know, you've got the book out now, uh, what, what's kind of your, your next step on this, this journey towards doing, towards making a more Vibrant community. Yeah. So right now, so yeah, the book came out earlier this year, um, and what I'm doing right now is I'm working with a company we're actually,
00:15:01 we are, we've taken the book content and we've put it into a 30 day online challenge that involves formation and positive psychology. And it will be running our, our first cohort of the 30 day leadership challenge in October. So we're working on that right now. It's just kind of exciting. Um, and, uh, yeah, there'll be more details coming out about that in the next few weeks.
00:15:24 And I'm also, uh, working to create, uh, we've taken the content from the book and turning it into an online product at this point live, it won't be like taped, but a live immersion leadership experience to take these principles and give people some specific coaching to do so that's the next step is basically taking the principles of all of this and bringing it more to life for people because leadership I'll tell you,
00:15:49 it's a lot easier to read about or write about than it is to live and do absolutely agreed. You can follow a lens on LinkedIn. He's Elaine Huskins. It's spelled a L a I N H U N K I N S. Or you can find him at his website with the same spelling, that.com you can find out more about the book@crackingtheleadershipcode.com. Of course I'll have links to all of that over in the show notes as well.
00:16:25 Is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener? Oh, I, first of all, I want to thank you Scott, for the great conversation today. And I would say that, I mean, the key to moving forward with any of this stuff is just a little bit of action every day. It's not about trying to do it all.
00:16:44 It's not about sending a new year's resolution. I'm going to do assault. It's just, we talked about really about the power of removing the friction and creating some habits. So creating habits that focus on development, learning, and growth and doing those things consistently over time, you know, oftentimes leaders, we talk about words like inspiring charismatic. I would take consistency over any of those other words any day of the week.
00:17:09 So be consistent and take action. And you will start moving in directions. You might not get there in a month or even in six months, but it's amazing. You do that over the course of a year, two years, five years. It's amazing how much things will change for you. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast, as a subscriber and listener,
00:17:45 we challenge you to not just sit back and passively, but Act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate. All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed until next time,
00:18:24 invest your time, your talent and your treasures, develop your influence and impact the world.

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In today's episode, I ask Alain about:

  • What a peak moment is and why you should care... 
  • Making a dent in the universe...
  • The legacy he wants to leave…  
  • and more.....

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We often times don't think about what are we doing to create these emotional experiences that wow them.  - Alain Huskins

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Episode 686: Develop Your Influence – Interview with Alain Hunkins – Part 3

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Join us today for Part 3 of the Interview with Alain Huskins author of Cracking the Leadership Code: Three Secrets to Building Strong Leaders...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with speaker, author and leadership maven Alain Hunkins. 

In today’s interview with Alain, we talk with you about leadership and what it really means.  Alain shares some tips on communication and Alain and I talk with you about what a motivational choice architect is and lots more…

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00:00:00 Thanks for joining us on episode 686 of the inspired stewardship pod. Hi, I'm Ella Hawkins, author of cracking the leadership code. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to lead well is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this,
00:00:31 the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader, and I missed all the signals because it was so like, I was blinded by my own obviousness. And we see this at work all the time. And psychologists call this by the way, projection bias, where you assume other people have exact thoughts. You do. I mean, if you ever heard yourself say things like,
00:01:00 well, I sent the email, they should know what to do, or doesn't senior management realize what a stupid process that is like, no, they're not you. And I think one of the biggest challenges is Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be,
00:01:19 then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you Impact. And today's interview with Alon. We talk with you about leadership and what it really means. A lunch share some tips on communication and Alon.
00:01:47 And I talk with you about what a motivational choice architect really is. And lots more. One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read.
00:02:11 And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible, go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books.
00:02:40 The same way you're listening to this podcast. Ellen Hudkins is a consultant trainer, coach and speaker around the complex topic of leadership. His recent book cracking the leadership code three secrets to building strong leaders was released earlier this year, over his 20 plus year career, a LAN has led over 2000 groups in 25 countries, including groups at Walmart, Pfizer city group,
00:03:06 GE state farm IBM GM and Microsoft Alon has designed and facilitated seminars on many leadership topics, including team building, conflict management, communication, peak performance, innovation, engagement, and change. Alon also serves on the faculty of Duke corporate education and is published in many of the most prominent business and leadership sources, including fast company Forbes, inc, and more welcome to the show,
00:03:40 Right? And those are both forms of feedback once just internal and one's external. So they're both valuable. Um, from that same point of view, one of the things that, and again, listeners, uh, will laugh as they hear this. Cause I preach all the time. The idea of if you are not reflecting on your learning and, and you know,
00:03:59 constantly do that plan, execute, reflect, revise, plan, execute, reflect, provide. If you just simply lived your life that way. If, if we all did all the time, it'd be amazing what we could do. Now, that being said, you don't always, you can't always do that. You're not always perfect at it. We screw it up too.
00:04:17 Um, all of us do, I don't care how, how good you are. You, you mess it up, but the more often you can do that, the better it, it gets whatever it is. You know, it literally could be anything in, in that, in that Blake, whether that's communicating with your spouse, whether that's leading your company,
00:04:34 whether that's, you know, recording a record, I don't care at all. And also I'm really excited. I'll be here with you today. So ally, one thing that people often think of is developing their influence is being a leader. And we've talked a lot about leadership over the last few weeks, but I haven't actually asked you to explicitly define the word.
00:04:55 And yet I've discovered that that's one of those words that we all use it, but we all usually have different definitions too. So with that in mind, how do you actually define the word leadership? Sure, sure. So I will walk you through the definition as a sentence and then I'll go back and break it down. Cause I, I fought through this.
00:05:15 Um, so for me, leadership is the performing arts of getting others to willingly, want to work towards the shared purpose. So let's, that's it. So let's break that down a little bit. So leadership I'm going to ask that is a performing art. So interesting. I'd say performing art because to me, ultimately it boils down to it's your behavior.
00:05:36 I think it's what you say. It's what you do that also by the way includes what you don't say and don't do. I could run to the microscope and we're being watched. So it's having that like meta awareness of how am I being perceived, which goes back to an earlier conversation we had on emotional intelligence. So it's that performing art of basically getting others to willingly,
00:05:58 right? That's the key thing is knowingly. It's not, and this is the difference between compliance and commit and commitment and then getting others. And frankly, it could be getting yourself sometimes it's self-leadership or it doesn't involve somebody else's getting yourself to willingly work so willingly. So that's obviously some, there's some motivation that's involved there work that there's some discretionary effort that's involved that we have to do something.
00:06:20 And then we have this shared or co-created on some level of purpose, which goes back to an earlier conversation about human needs that we're trying to create something that has a vision that is greater than ourselves. So that's for me is when we lead. And the fact is you don't need a title to be a leader, right? Because we're all, we're all trying to do that at various.
00:06:41 Like anytime that you involve, whether it's just yourself, like you have to lead yourself to like your example from earlier, you know, go for a run in the morning, you lead yourself to make that happen. You know, you get yourself willingly to do that. Whether it's one other person saying, you know, let's say it's with your spouse,
00:06:58 just deciding, you know, what are we going to do on Friday night? Boom. Like you have to negotiate that and have a vision or whatever that might be. So I think, you know, it's funny, I just got an email from someone who wanted some, some advice on how do I get more leadership experience? Like I'm model leader.
00:07:14 I don't have it. I'm like, well, go out and do stuff. I said, Tier like join anything, like join any group, you know, or just try to help somebody else. I think anytime you try to be of service that's leadership, there's an opportunity for you to step in and practice the performing art of getting others, to willing to work towards a shared purpose.
00:07:36 Anytime that you're trying to create certain something, certainly I said, how did you start said, how did you start getting into like becoming, I said, number one, I was really curious in people. First of all, number two, I was curious in people not focused on how is this going to earn me a paycheck? So that's a key thing too.
00:07:55 And then I just basically started doing stuff. So I started facilitating as a co-facilitator as a junior facilitator, basically sitting in like an intern. I was an unpaid intern at a not-for-profit leadership development organization. I said, can I sit in on your meetings and see how things are run? I said, I'll do I can take notes. I said, okay,
00:08:12 fine. I took her and I took a really good note. So I got me noticed. So it's like, there are a lot of things you can do. I mean, if you want to, you can, a lot of people have heard of Toastmasters. You can join a Toastmasters group and then start volunteering for different roles. Plus bonus will become a better public speaker out of it too.
00:08:29 So there's no limit except our imaginations in terms of ways for us to develop these leadership skills and they are skills and they're all learning. Right. Well, and it's again, I love the fact that you call out action in more than one place in your definition, because it's both how we act as a leader or don't as well as how do others act as a,
00:08:55 to that leadership? You know, it's, it's, it's a bi-directional um, cause when you recognize that, like you said, then you can look for leadership almost anywhere, no matter whether you have the corner office, um, you, you you've got opportunities to lead your coworkers. You've got opportunities to lead at your church and your family, if you're a parent,
00:09:14 you know, all of the above. Yeah. And I think as you say that it is reminds me that, you know, I think particularly in North American culture, we have this crazy myth that we bought been bought into, I think, which is the sense that like when you are living your purpose and your passion and doing all this is that you should be getting paid good money for it.
00:09:32 You know, like that may or may not be true. But again, I think the place to start is start to do it and then the results will build on themselves from that. I agree. I agree. So we we've used the w the word I use a lot of times is influence. Um, and, and I kind of call it out,
00:09:54 uh, listeners of the show have heard me talk about this before, but I distinguish influence from manipulation in that influence to me is when we, as, uh, it help others kind of get what they want, do what they want do what's best for them. However you want to define that. Um, not as in, I come in and tell them what's best for them.
00:10:19 And then manipulation is sort of when I get people to do something, because it's best for me, it makes my life easier. It makes me win, uh, in that way. So when you think about influence to me, one of the core components of that is effective communication, because if we're not able to have that dialogue back and forth, we can't know what's best.
00:10:41 We can't know what's good for others. Would you share some of the major obstacles that we face when it comes to being effective communicators and maybe a couple of actions on how we can begin to overcome those? Yeah. So, yeah, I love the idea of this influence and how it connects to communication. So communication is so much harder, so much harder than it looks.
00:11:05 And I think one of the big challenges is, is the fact that we take it for granted, assuming that all of your senses are in good working order. And you have years that year and fingers that can type an eyes that can read and mouse. I can speak like, Oh, this is all fine. And it's, it's like, it's like the utility,
00:11:19 you know, or your internet, it's all fine until it's not working. And then you freak out. It's like, Oh my gosh, like, I can't live like this. And communication is a lot in the same way. And one of the biggest challenges to communication is that a lot of people think, Oh, I have to communicate for communication sake.
00:11:37 And the fact is communication. Isn't the goal communication is the process. And that a lot of people enter into the process without actually having a clear goal. And the goal of any communication should be creating, shared understanding the two parties or, or could be multiple. But the idea is between everyone involved. And the reason that shared understanding so important is because understanding becomes the platform for all future action.
00:12:05 So if we have shared clear, solid understanding, we can make really good decisions and then achieve really good results. If the platform we're standing on is really wobbly and shaky, because it's kind of fun. I don't really understand that kind of, sort of understand. Maybe then we're going to make some poor decisions. We're going to have some poor results.
00:12:23 I mean, as I think about that kind of shaky platform, I'm sure you've had the experience. Scott you've spent enough time in corporate life where you have the meeting after the meeting. It was like, after the meeting, after the meeting, what do we disagree to in there? I'm not sure what they say, you, I got it right.
00:12:40 What am I supposed to be doing? I don't understand exactly. So, so the, and the thing is around some of the barriers to really good communication, getting to understanding is the fact is humans. I mean, the default nature is going to be misunderstanding because to get a hundred percent accurate understanding, which is called it, the Holy grail that we're trying to get to takes three things to be in complete perfect alignment,
00:13:04 which is what is it that you say, what is it that you mean, which may or may not be the same thing? And what do I hear? And so oftentimes those things are not in alignment. And, you know, humans have this amazing capacity to put meaning in, in all sorts of ways that may or may not have been there.
00:13:26 I mean, I'll tell you a quick, funny story. It's not work-related, but people will relate to this one. So we live in Western, Massachusetts, and our house got a really narrow driveway wide enough for one car that widens out where we could park two cars side to side. We have never two car family, and that's fine. So we had these friends,
00:13:42 Pam and Charlie came to visit us for a weekend. They drove their car and they parked behind us. And so I had to leave to go to the airport to do a things just obviously pre COVID. Cause I went to the airport or fly for work. So I said, Pam, could you please move your car? I have to leave. And she said,
00:13:56 where do you want me to move my cars, please park car out in front of the house. She said, do you want me where you said I out in front of the house? You sure you have? Sure. Go ahead. So she leaves and I don't think anything else of it. So I get my suitcase, I put it in the car and I started backing slowly on the driveway.
00:14:11 And as I'm backing out, Scott, I look over and then this thing catches the corner, man. I'm like, what, what, what is that? It's Pam's car. And she's parked her car literally in front of the house as in, directly in front of the house, as in on the flower beds, in front of the house. Because in my mind,
00:14:29 when I say, park your car in front of the house, it is crystal clear. What I need is park your car on the curb, in front of the house. Cause where else would you put a car? You put it by the curb. But clearly Pam had taken my word, literally tried to check for understanding it. And I missed what you meant exactly.
00:14:47 Cause you sure you sure. And I missed all the signals because it was so like, I was blinded by my own obviousness. And we see this at work all the time. And psychologists call this by the way, projection bias, right? Where you assume other people have exact thoughts. You do. I mean, if you ever heard yourself say things like,
00:15:03 well, I sent the email, they should know what to do or it doesn't senior management realize what a stupid process. This is like, no, they, they're not you. And I think one of the biggest challenges is they're not us and we're not them. And what we have to do with communication is close the gap to help them to understand what that is.
00:15:20 So that's one of the biggest challenges. Another big challenge to communication as well is that everything is clear in your mind because you have context, you know, where it came from, what you're trying to do. And if you don't spell it out, it's not just what you say. It's why you say it, how you say it and framing it in a way that people get.
00:15:36 That's another big one. And the other third, particularly I think everyone can deal with this one. I understand what this one is about is the fact that we are just drowning, drowning in information overload. So the question is, how are you going to stand out? How is your signal going to stand out in the midst of all of the noise?
00:15:54 So those are some of the biggest barriers and something to consider. So number one, number, one thing to do is start your communications. So this is like tools, tips, and techniques, things to do to be a better communicator. Number one, have a goal in mind, like make sure you have a very clear central message should be no more than five to eight words.
00:16:13 So you're going to do an hour meeting. What's the point and like frame it in like five to eight words and repeat it a lot and make sure that people are walking away, having that same central message in mind and build all of your structure, all your communication in a way that people can get that. Another really simple thing you can do is what I call asking for a receipt.
00:16:36 I mean, we were talking about, we were joking about the meetings after the meetings, after the meetings. So often the meetings end and be like, go off. Like, I think we know what we're doing. So instead of doing that, build in a check for understanding, so stop commuting 10 minutes earlier and say, okay, before we finish,
00:16:51 let's just go around the horn. What is everyone saying they're going to do? And I know part of us are going, Oh, these are adults. We should treat them like adults. Like again, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's so much easier to catch it now than it is down the road. Because as we said before,
00:17:09 understanding as a platform for all future action and what are the reasons that we come together for meetings, we meet to create understanding. That's the point of why we meet. So let's make sure we get the understanding and not just assume we have it. So asking for a receipt of understanding, there's a great, great example of this to bring this to life comes from the fast food industry.
00:17:31 So you might remember the days when they started putting drive-throughs into fast food. This is the 1980s at the beginning, the process for drive-throughs within the nightmare. It was really calm, like over 50% of the orders you placed the order of the Intercom. You drive up to pick up your food and then you wrong. And this happened for years. And then one day the industry wised up,
00:17:49 and this is the incredibly fancy technology that you use to figure out the problem. They started having the employees repeat the order back That's to you. That was it. That was the key. That was the fix. It's like, Oh, but it gave you a chance to say, wait, no. Why Exactly before they went ahead, because they wanted to make sure they had the common understanding the platform for future decisions and action.
00:18:11 Right? So like you ordered three cheeseburgers, three fries, three kicks. No, actually I wanted two cheeseburgers. Thank you exactly. And so look, if taco bell will do this for a 99 cent taco, don't you think that your work deserves the same level of clarity? So to me, it's again a simple tool asking for receipt, cause we want to make sure we're walking away,
00:18:31 getting accurate understanding. Well, and even there it, you know, cause I I've had the same argument with folks of well, but we're treating them like adults. Okay. Yeah. You actually are because it's one thing in other words to say to them, okay, I want to check in and make sure you got what my directions were and you know exactly what you needed.
00:18:52 And it's something else to, just to go around the table and say, you know, are basically, are we all on the same page? So what, you know, Tom, what actions have you agreed? You know, what are the things that we're going to get done after the MI? Okay, great. Sam, how about you? Good.
00:19:06 Perfect. You know, in other words, it's diff it, the intent behind why you're doing it is different. It's not, I want to hold your hand. Have we left the meeting with everybody, knowing what they're supposed to be doing next so that we get it done. Exactly. And sometimes I'm brought in to work with clients and like I'm in a meeting and like I'm having a discovery call and you know,
00:19:25 one of my go to strategies is just all go Los edits with a question before we leave, just to make sure that I'm clear on what we're all saying. We just go through this again. So then it's not about them. It's about me. You know, it's like, whatever, I don't care. Like my ego can handle that at this point,
00:19:40 but whatever it takes. Yeah. Like it's the style. That's why I say leadership is a performing art because you know, we've been talking a lot about skills in terms of, you know, make sure you have understand and get a check for understanding. Make sure you have alignment. You what you say, what you mean. That sounds very block and tackle skill.
00:19:55 Like, but as we're seeing here, there's a style you do. It's not what you do. It's how you do it is so important. Right. And, and again, to me, at least I, you know, my GoTo technique was I told people why I was doing it. You know, I just, you know, Hey, I've noticed that we leave the meeting and a lot of times I'm unclear what I'm supposed to be doing next.
00:20:19 And it seems like everybody else's. And that's why we have the meeting in the hall after the meeting that goes another 20 minutes rather than doing that. I'd like to have that 20 minute meeting in here. So can we just kind of go around and make sure that we're all on the same? Okay. Yeah. Most people kind of laugh at you and go,
00:20:35 Oh yeah, that makes sense. Um, because you know, we all know it. We all do it. Mmm. Again, I've I actually used to have the cubicle. I started in the cubicle that was next to the most popular meeting room for my company. And so all of the meetings happened in that meeting room. I got to see,
00:20:59 it was hilarious. You know, they're there people would congregate right outside of my cubicle, right outside of the room after the meeting to finish the meeting, you know? Um, and it happened time after time, day after day, I got to see it play out. It didn't matter who called the meeting either. You know, it happened all the time.
00:21:18 It was very funny. Um, but it did give me a different outlook on them when I got to be the guy that started organizing meetings. Terrific. So one of the concepts, uh, that you talk about in, in the book is this idea of leaders becoming a motivational choice architect, uh, which I was just, I loved the phrase,
00:21:40 uh, how, how does this work? What is this, uh, what, what, what do you mean by this term for a leader? Yeah. So, you know, the idea of a motivational choice architect comes from the idea is that you can't actually motivate anybody else is what you can do. Obviously you can motivate yourself potentially, but what you can do for somebody else's,
00:22:03 you can create the conditions where they're more likely to be motivated. So I know that we talk a little bit back about behavioral economics and this whole idea of nudging or whatever things we can do to reduce the friction. So they're more likely to be motivated. And that's really what this is about. So it's what Q you do so that people are more likely to be able to motivate themselves.
00:22:25 And for example, um, you know, one of the things that some people think is like, Oh, well maybe I should just treat people the way I'd like to be treated, which in theory, I mean, that's the golden rule. That sounds like a really great strategy. And that might work. And as I'll tell you, his story is sometimes it doesn't.
00:22:45 So I was working with a guy and he told me this story, his name is Kelly. He's an it manager early in his career. Um, Kelly decided he wanted motivated. He was running a corporate help desk team to get 18 people on the team. And he thought, no, the team needs some motivation here. So you decided he was going to start a secret surprise contest.
00:23:05 So he started keeping track of some key performance metrics and he didn't tell anybody. And then at the end of the month, he told the whole team to meet in the big meeting conference room. He said, or the whole team we're going to meet over lunch time and I've got a surprise for you. And so they all come in and he's got,
00:23:19 he's bought prizes and he's working the whole thing up. And so he has everyone come in and he says, you've all been part of our first monthly. It help desk contest. Right? Duh, any kind of he's milking it all. I got prizes and he doesn't have runners up, you know, like number three, number two. And he gets time for the number one.
00:23:35 And they're number one for this month is Gina. He's like Gina, come on up speech. So Gina stands up and he says he could see her face. It's kind of changing shades of like it from like beige to pink. And she's got be the sweat and Gina looks at him and she turns and sprints right out. And he doesn't have a clue as to what the heck is this happened.
00:23:55 He doesn't talk about a massively awkward moment. But what we found out later is that Gina suffers from social anxiety disorder and in her job, she's fine. Right? She's finding her work, but this whole being put on the spot in front of her teammates, it completely pushed her over the edge. So clearly Kelly's idea. He thought it was great,
00:24:14 you know, but that didn't work for his team. So I like to think so when it comes to being a motivational choice architect, a good rule of thumb is you may have heard of the idea of the platinum rule, which is don't treat other people the way you'd like to be treated, treat them the way they'd like to be treated, but to do that,
00:24:30 you need to understand what their needs are, what motivates them, what drives them, what makes them tick. So a, you have to know your people and connect with them, get to know them on a more personal level. And then I know we talked earlier about these kind of four needs that people have. So what is their needs around safety?
00:24:48 What's their needs around energy. What are their needs around ownership? What are their needs around purpose? And so understanding what those needs are, and then you can start to meet them more easily. And the thing is, there's not, as we see with Kelly and Gina, there's not a one size fits all to this, which is why you need to develop a different type of relationship and a different connection with each person I'll look.
00:25:12 And, you know, people say to me like, what if you're a CEO and you have a hundred thousand people, I'm like, well, do it with your executive team. And now with their team, like if you model this well, that will be key. That will create a ripple effect moving down. And also if you are explicit and say,
00:25:26 this is what I'm expecting around, this is what connection looks like. And so a big part of that is leaders need to be teachers about so that we can replicate this and make this consciously competent. So that's a big piece of what motivational choice architecture looks like. It's about designing environments where people can thrive. Yeah. So it's, again, we're back to,
00:25:48 and I'm going to quote another quote guru out there is, you know, uh, that, uh, uh, culture eats strategy for breakfast. You know, it's the idea of, have you created a culture where this is valued and this is important again, if you're the CEO. Yeah. But you got to create the culture. Um, you know,
00:26:08 because if everyone looks at the CEO and the CEO doesn't value with this, why would anyone else in the company it would be political suicide. Yes. Um, so when we think about communication, uh, and, and we've talked a lot about it, one area of communication that boasts a lot of people want to do, and then it utterly terrifies people is this idea of public speaking.
00:26:33 Um, do you have any tips for folks on explicitly how they can develop their influence through this idea of communication through speaking? Yeah. Um, it's, It's funny. It's a funny, except, you know, you've, I'm sure you've seen the stats where they said that people fear public speaking more than they fear death, which means that they would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy.
00:26:55 Right. I mean, that's fascinating to me, but so in terms of public speaking, yeah. It's amazing because let's say you have, and people say, well, isn't that important? Let's say you have two equally qualified job candidates for a deposition. And they both had the technical skills. Yet. One person is articulate and can express themselves through public speaking,
00:27:13 other person can't. And who would you hire like case closed, right? So it is an important skill and how we show up. So there's two big component. Number one is public speaking is a performing art. You don't get better at it by reading books and watching YouTube videos of great Ted talks. And there may be inspiring, but they're not gonna make you a better speaker.
00:27:35 You need to practice and find opportunities to practice. Now, if you want to join a Toastmasters group, toastmasters.org, it's the world's largest. Not-for-profit, it's all about advancing the craft of public speaking, great place to do it. Or, or if you want to work on your own and find someone, the two key components are content and delivery, right?
00:27:54 So it's what you say is your content delivery is how you say it. They're both important. Somebody says, what's the percentage. It's like a hundred percent, 100%. Can I separate the two app? So in terms of content, make sure that you have a very clear central message and that your central message is relevant to your audience. Do your homework know who your audience is and then structure things.
00:28:17 So it's clear and know that when you are structuring, it's a creative act, which means that the first draft is going to be kind of not so good and you need to write, work it and refine it again. And again and again. So that's your content, and then you need to practice, get it up on its feet. You know,
00:28:33 find whether it, you know, some people can talk to the mirror. I can't do it, freaks me out, but you know, whether it's talk to your dog or a friend or go for a walk in the park and practice and practice and practice. And then when you think you're done practice some more. So the people who you think are great public speakers,
00:28:50 you don't see all of the process. All you see is the end result. Right? So I'll just give you an example. So speaking of Ted talks, I did a TEDx talk in October of 2018 and the talk runs about 12 minutes, and I can tell you, and then people said, Oh yeah, you're just talking. So practice, you know,
00:29:08 I noticed you didn't have any ums or, and it was all straightforward and clear. Um, you're a really good speaker. I was PR I must've run that entire speech word for word, and I actually ended up scripting it out. Now, granted at the end, I wasn't worried about having the exact same word. Sure. But I must've done that entire it's a 10 minute talk.
00:29:26 I must've done it at least 90 times, 90 times, you know, because I knew it was going to be on the internet for the rest of eternity. I wanted to make sure I only have one shot to do it well. And so if the stakes are high, you'll work at it. So I think what most of us need to is raise the stakes because unfortunately,
00:29:43 especially in the business world, the bar of quality is shockingly low. So that's good news and bad news. The bad news is the bar is really low. The good news is if you work at this just a little bit more than anyone else, guess what you're going to stand out. I'm like, gosh, you're so good at this. And it just is a question of practice really is practicing your content,
00:30:04 proximity delivery and get some feedback because you are not your own best critic. You need to get it from other people. And also you can use a videotape camera. And don't, don't flip out about how you look on camera. This is not Hollywood production at the same time. It's really useful to see when people say, Oh, you know, you didn't do a rush or mumble or don't finish your sentences by the way.
00:30:25 All of which had been given to me as feedback. So it's really good to get that information from other people as well. And to start to build a strategy towards becoming better. And yes, it will help you to become a better influencer. But yeah, and again, this is one of those things that you can do at all levels, whether you're in leadership or not,
00:30:45 honestly, if you're not in a formal leadership position. And again, we've talked earlier about the fact that you're still a leader, but yes, if you will, if that's a goal of yours, getting better at public speaking is actually going to move you towards that goal. 90% of the time, because one of the key characteristics that most companies are looking for in leadership positions is somebody who can get in front of a group of people and talk effectively and comfortably and not look like an idiot.
00:31:18 If you can do those things, you're usually ahead of the curve. And I also wish sometimes that they would change the way they do PowerPoint in corporate world too, because I can't stay in most corporate PowerPoints cause like cram 300 words, 12 point type on a PowerPoint and then expect people to read it, which is not an effective speaking technique. But my favorite strategy and my favorite thing that people say is,
00:31:42 I'm sure you've seen this people put up the PowerPoint, like with the Excel spreadsheet on it with a 6.5. Like I know you can't read this, my favorite expressions. I knew that I knew that would get you excited. I know you can't read this, but it's comparable to the comparable to the, you know, people can't hear me in the back.
00:32:02 Yeah. Okay. Let's do something about this, right? Yeah. You can follow a Len on LinkedIn. He's uh, Elaine Huskins. It's spelled a L a I N H U N K I N S. Or you can find him at his website with the same spelling, that.com you can find out more about the book@crackingtheleadershipcode.com. Of course I'll have links to all of that over in the show notes as well.
00:32:32 Is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener? Oh, I, first of all, I want to thank you Scott, for the great conversation today. And I would say that, I mean, the key to moving forward with any of this stuff is just a little bit of action every day. It's not about trying to do it all.
00:32:51 It's not about setting a new year's resolution. I'm going to do assault. It's just, and we talked about earlier about the power of removing the friction and creating some habits. So creating habits that focus on development, learning, and growth and doing those things consistently over time, you know, oftentimes leaders, we talk about words like inspiring charismatic. I would take consistency over any of those other words any day of the week.
00:33:16 So be consistent and take action. And you will start moving in directions. You might not get there in a month or even in six months, but it's amazing. You do that over the course of a year, two years, five years. It's amazing how much things will change for you. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast, as a subscriber and listener,
00:33:51 we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes, right? All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed until next time,
00:34:30 invest your time, your talent and your treasures, develop your influence and impact the world.

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In today's episode, I ask Alain about:

  • Leadership and what it really means...
  • His tips on communication...
  • What a motivational choice architect is...
  • and more.....

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I missed all the signals because I was blinded by my own obviousness.  It's called projection bias.  - Alain Huskins

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