Episode 621: Invest in Others – Interview with Dr. Gary Johnson – Part 2

June 1, 2020 By Scott Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 2 of the Interview with Dr. Gary Brown from E2 Effective Elders...

This is Part 2 of the interview I had with speaker, pastor, and teacher Dr. Gary Johnson.

Episode 621_ Invest in Others - Interview with Dr. Gary Johnson - Part 2

In today’s interview with Dr. Gary Johnson, I ask Gary to talk about leadership as a Christian. I also ask Gary his view of mentorship and how the life map activity helps us focus on both building ourselves and others.

Join in on the Chat below.

00:00:00 Thanks for joining us on episode 621 of the inspired stewardship podcast. Hey friends, my name is Dr. Gary Johnson and uh, I serve as the executive director of effect of elders. I challenge you to invest in yourself, in others and develop your influence while impacting the world by using your time, your talent, your treasures, to live out, your calling,
00:00:29 having the ability to grow yourself through self leadership is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Mader. We're not pitting one church against another church, et cetera. It's just the kingdom of darkness. Now you want to play on this team or not? Well, of course I do.
00:01:02 Well, you want the team to win. Of course, I'm on the team to win. Well then you have to let me speak into your life. Will you allow me to speak into your life? We have to get their permission and it's always in the context of it's for the glory of God. Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast.
00:01:26 If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the inspired stewardship podcast, we'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence Pact, the world. And today's interview with Dr. Gary Johnson. I asked Gary to talk about leadership as a Christian.
00:01:53 I also asked Gary his view of mentorship and how his life map activity helps us focus on both building ourselves and others. One reason I like to bring you great interviews like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books, but if you're like most people today,
00:02:18 you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from and instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible
00:02:47 to get your free trial and listen to great books. The same way you're listening to this podcast. Dr. Gary Johnson has served in the preaching ministry for four decades. He now leads for effective elders as the executive director full time coaching pastors and elders nationwide. He holds numerous degrees in ministry and church history. Gary has taught as an adjunct professor for several seminaries including the Cincinnati Christian university and TCM Institute,
00:03:20 a seminary that serves Europe and Asia. Gary has been blessed to travel overseas for the purpose of training elders and pastors in cross cultural settings on over a hundred mission trips and Gary and Lei and Lee have been married over 40 years and have married sons, Jared and Aaron who are both serving in the ministry. His pursuits outside of church life include running, mountain climbing,
00:03:45 racquetball cycling and backpacking. Still one of the greatest joys in life for Gary is being called grandpa by his six grandkids. Welcome to the show, Gary. Well, thank you Scott. It's a privilege to be invited, correct, For most of us. So when, when people, you know, have a, a biblical view of serving others, the interesting thing is a lot of times people get stressed out about this idea of helping other people,
00:04:15 serving other people, keeping that balance between self and others. Would you talk a little bit about what servant leadership means, especially to those of us that are followers of Christ? Sure. Uh, I believe that, um, just what you said as a follower of Christ in Mark chapter 10, it says in verse 45 and Jesus is the one who made this statement.
00:04:41 He said, the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give us life as a ransom for many. Well, when you and I look at that and when we add to it, other verses, like in first John chapter two, it says in verse six, uh, if anyone claims to be a follower of Jesus,
00:05:03 he must live or walk as Jesus lived or walk. So Jesus was a servant. And if I'm going to say I'm going to be a follower of Jesus, I need to live like he lived. I must be a servant of others. And uh, I, I honestly believe that will happen when we emulate the humility of Jesus. In Philippians chapter two,
00:05:31 uh, beginning in verse five, going down through verse 11, we have what is called the Christological statement. And this is where the apostle Paul said, your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus, who even though he was in very nature, God did not consider equality with God, something to be grasped, but he made himself nothing.
00:05:51 Taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness, being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross. So as a follower of Jesus, I need to follow his example. Now think with me when he says he humbled himself. Humility is an attitude. It is something that happens within us.
00:06:18 It's how we think of ourselves. Jesus thought in a very lowly way of himself. He humbled himself and how we think determines how we live, how I think determines how I live. Jesus, he thought with humility, what did it do? It took him to the cross. He humbled himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross.
00:06:41 So I believe if I'm going to be a servant to others, I got to get that, that in my very core being in my soul, that I want to emulate the servanthood of Jesus. For that to happen, I have to emulate his attitude of humility and others must matter more than myself. So last, last week we talked a little bit about the life map map activity that you use annually.
00:07:14 And as part of that, you know, you, you talked about having a vision, having a mission, having your core values and the specific objectives. Um, and you know, this is, I would imagine one of the ways that you focus on not just developing yourself and as you mentioned in your objectives, you have objectives about relationship with others.
00:07:33 You have objectives about what you're doing to, to help others. So how can we use this kind of activity to help us keep our focus on God? Others self when in this today's world especially, it's very easy to flip that around. And actually I think that's been universally true. If this seems to be the human condition to talk about self, others God as,
00:07:57 as opposed to the right order. Would you talk a little bit about that In order to, uh, be that servant to others in order to, uh, emulate the life of Jesus as a servant? I think that, uh, it is absolutely fundamentally essential to draw near to God. So the spiritual disciplines are going to take me to a right place if I'm going to consistently day by day,
00:08:26 moment by moment, try to serve others. Uh, to that end, it would be important, Scott, to have a rich devotional life, to anchor myself in the word of God every day of the week. And, um, it would be important for me just as it says in James four, verse eight, draw near to God and he will draw near to me in the songs your word.
00:08:50 Have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against God? I believe that, uh, the discipline, spiritual disciplines are essential to take me to a right, healthy spiritual walk. And if I can do that, I will have every greater likelihood that I will live like Jesus. So that prayer life, I'm meditating on scripture. Uh, all of that is essential.
00:09:15 Yeah. And, and you know, again, we talked last week about how stewardship is more than money. One of the things that I put into that realm of stewardship is having, having a regular set of spiritual disciplines that you do within your life. Because you know, again, as you said, if it's hard to live it out, if you're not actually doing it yourself,
00:09:37 you know, interestingly, I know people that will talk to other people about spiritual disciplines but don't actually do them themselves. And it's like, that's, that's contradictory. Walk, walk the walk if you're going to, to talk about, so one of the activities that, uh, within the leadership, uh, that people are called to do, this happens within the church.
00:09:56 This happens in the secular world. Doesn't matter. You know, as a leader, you're often called to mentor others. Um, that could be an up and coming leader. That could be somebody who's going to replace you down the road. But it also could just be mentoring, you know, young people or people within the church. Would you talk a little bit about how,
00:10:17 how we can be more effective in mentorship? And I will tell you that the single push back that I always hear from people when you ask them to do mentorship or development is, but I'm not ready yet myself. So anything you can do to answer that complaint because that's always the complaint. You bet. Absolutely. Well, first of all, uh,
00:10:38 let, let me just mention some years ago there was a book that I read called the lost art of mentoring. And if I recall the author, Ted angstrom, was the author of that book. And I, I think I still have it on my shelf. And I do believe that mentoring is a lost art. And I would even call it a discipline.
00:10:58 And we are called to mentor one another. So let's say for example, somebody in your sphere says, Oh, I'm not ready myself. There are different types of mentors. I don't know if you're old enough to remember the promise keeper movement. And I can remember in the 1990s that the promise keeper said every man needs three men in his life. He needs a Paul,
00:11:23 somebody older to speak into his life. He needs a Timothy, somebody younger into whose life he will speak. And then thirdly, he needs a Barnabas, somebody with whom to walk beside. So if you've got somebody in your community there of inspired stewardship, they say, Oh, I'm not ready then be a Barnabas. You can be a brother or a sister of encouragement is his name.
00:11:49 Barnabas. In chapter four of the book of acts, his name was Joseph, and he was of the tribe of Levi. He was a Levis. And then it says whom the disciples called Barnabas, meaning son of encouragement. So he had a nickname. Barnabas was his nickname, a term of endearment. And what was his nickname? The encourager. Anybody can be an encourager.
00:12:14 You don't have to have a degree in whatever to mentor as a brother or sister of encouragement. So if somebody says they're not ready, it's a cop out. So what I would say, uh, for sure everybody can start there. That's mentoring one-on-one. Now, secondly, everybody has got somebody younger in his or her life into which they can invest.
00:12:42 For example, uh, my wife and I, we have two sons. They're both grown. They're both married in our sense of, provided us with six grandchildren. Uh, later today I'm going to be mentoring all of my grandchildren. Uh, I spend time every week with them. They, the oldest is a senior in high school now graduating the youngest is five.
00:13:09 And I literally have, it's called grandpa Bible class with them. Uh, and case in point, my two oldest grandsons, they have memorized Matthew five, six, and seven sermon on the mound. It's a part of, uh, the mentoring. I, every week I spend time with my grandchildren just speak into their life because, and I tell them over and again,
00:13:34 just promise me two things. Number one, you will learn to love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength. The first and greatest commandment of Jesus. And I'll say to my grandkids, you know what? If you learn to love God, I'm going to venture to think you will live for God your whole life. If as a young person,
00:13:51 you will love God, you learn to love God, you will live for God. When you go off to the university, you will live for God. When you enter the military, you will live for God. When you're married and a newlywed, you will live for God. If you learn to love him. Now as a child, as a teenager,
00:14:07 please. And then secondly, tell me that you will love your neighbor as yourself. These are the first two greatest commandments that Jesus gave us. And, and I have to mentor them, teach them how that happens. Everybody's got somebody younger into whose life they can invest. Uh, and then, uh, am I teachable in spirit? Is somebody speaking into my life and you see to to Scott,
00:14:34 we want people to understand mentoring. Uh, is is different. What I do with my grandkids, I would call intensive mentoring, intensive mentoring. I am engaged in a relationship with them. Uh, and it may be that some of your listeners are intensive disciplers mentors. They meet once a week, they meet every other week. They are on Skype or zoom or whatever they meet in a coffee shop.
00:15:07 They, uh, go out. They, they are intentionally, intensively mentoring somebody. Now to the opposite end of the spectrum, there's passive mentoring. Uh, if somebody reads this book, uh, too much living with less than the land of more and suddenly they follow, uh, the principle that I share in there about getting out of debt, cutting your mortgage in half without spending an extra dollar in fees or interest.
00:15:35 If they put that into practice, I have mentored them, but I've never met them. That's passive mentoring. You and I have read umpteen books, umpteen books that have shaped our lives the way we live. Those authors were passive mentors to us. So I believe that mentoring is the investment in the lives of other people. It is essential that we do that.
00:16:01 And when we do so, we follow the example of Jesus. Well, and yeah, and looking to the example of Jesus. I mean, again, he mentored many people and in many different ways, not just the disciples, but even into the larger community. And then now, you know, again, reading the words and the parables today, you still get the mentorship there as well as active and passive,
00:16:26 both And Paul Paul to Timothy Paul to Titus that that would have been younger and older, uh, that from, but what about Paul to Luke or Paul, the Silas that might have been more the Paul like a Barnabas, the lateral. So, well and, and I would also encourage people when you hear the word younger, um, don't just think of chronological age.
00:16:51 Exactly. Think of development within skill. Think of spiritual age, think of walk with Christ. You know, if somebody is beginning their path and you've been on this journey for 40 years, regardless of your age, uh, you know, cause they could be beginning the path and actually they're 60 and you're 40 and you can still mentor. So it's not just chronological age either as younger in development,
00:17:18 in whatever area your mentoring relationship falls, whether that's a spiritual mentorship or whether that's something else. So, um, cause I know I've had the opportunity a few times to mentor someone who was chronologically older than me, but in a particular area where I was mentoring them, I had more experience, more knowledge, more skill in that. Uh, so it is,
00:17:42 it is more than chronological. So talking a little bit more specifically about church leaders and ministry leaders, but I actually think this, this is a broader topic, uh, that that falls out into, again, into the secular war world as well. One of the challenges that comes about with leadership sometimes is leading volunteers as opposed to an employee, you know,
00:18:04 um, and how, how is this different? So what advice do you have for leading volunteers effectively? And how is this different than leading an employee, a family member, other people like that? Yeah, leading volunteers is a, um, one of the most challenging, uh, responsibilities in, in leadership circles. Think with me for a minute.
00:18:31 If I'm in the military and I have a soldier that is misbehaving, et cetera, that soldier can be court martialed. Right? If I'm the professor in the classroom and I have a student that is not performing, I can fail that student. If I am a supervisor, a boss, uh, within a company and I have an employee who shows up late who does not perform,
00:18:53 I can terminate that employee. There are, uh, certain repercussions when you are dealing with somebody on a staff, et cetera, military or whatever. When it comes to the church and you are working with volunteers, if that volunteer shows up late to serve in the nursery, what are you going to do to lay him off? What are you going to do?
00:19:13 Cut their pay. So that's why dealing with volunteers is more demanding. And this is how I, over the years and especially even now articulate this, uh, we have to create a team environment. And for example, in football or basketball, baseball, et cetera, the coach wants the team to what? To win. Well, in order to win,
00:19:43 uh, the coach has to speak into the lives of the players. Uh, do this, do that, execute this, play whatnot. Whether to move the ball down the field or down the court to hit a home run. This is what it's going to take to win the game. Now those players, they have a choice to make. Will I listen to the coach or not?
00:20:06 And if that player does not listen to the coach, they're not going to be on that team very long. They're going to be off the team because why? The coach wants the team to watch, to win. So as a leader, what you have to do with volunteers, you must create a team environment and you have to say to that team,
00:20:25 we want, we want our team to win and our team is team Jesus and we are, we are playing against one enemy, the kingdom of darkness, period. End of discussion. We're not pitting one church against another church, et cetera. It's just the kingdom of darkness. Now, do you want to play on this team or not? Well,
00:20:44 of course I do. Well, you want the to win. Of course I'm on the team to win. Well then you have to let me speak into your life. Will you allow me to speak into your life? We have to get their permission and it's always in the context of it's for the glory of God. We want his church, the bride of Christ to be at her best,
00:21:09 particularly against the one and only opponent, the kingdom of darkness. And if they don't get it, they're not going to be a good team player and I wouldn't want them on my team. Yeah. And, and my, my, again, I'm within ministry leadership myself on the, on the lay leader side, but still within ministry leadership and I've been part of the conversations when you have to let them volunteer,
00:21:35 go and uh, never a fun, easy conversation. I've also been in the corporate world and let people go as an employer employee relationship. It's still not fun. Neither one of those is a lot of fun, very painful. It's very painful. But there are times where the way I look at it as if it's come to that point, that separation is better,
00:21:55 not just for you as the leader, but for the individual as well. Because usually if they're struggling that much, if they're having a difficult, they're there, they're not a good fit for what you're asking them to do. There may be a better place to use them. There may be, you know, a skill that they need to develop and it just may not be time for them yet.
00:22:15 And that's exactly, It may be that they are a round peg in a square hole, right? That their spiritual gifts are not a match for the task at hand. Because sometimes what we do in the churches say, Oh, you've got a pulse. Sure you can be whatever. And not only do we set them up to fail and be, um,
00:22:35 unfulfilled in serving the Lord, but we heard the body of Christ by putting the wrong person with the wrong task and responsibility with the wrong gift set. Right. And, and we do it all the time. All the time. You have to remember that there are basically five levels of conversation in our culture today. There's level one cliche, it's meaningless.
00:22:56 Shallow. I might see somebody in a parking lot and be approaching that person, Hey, how are you today? And before that person can even tell me how they are, I'm already in my car driving off. I really don't care. Right? Level number two, a little bit deeper, the sharing of facts and the sharing of fact is indisputable.
00:23:14 I'm here in Indianapolis today. The sun is shining. It's indisputable that number three, uh, the sharing of opinion. Now this is where real communication begins. This is where I would put an asterisk by number three, the sharing of opinion, because this is where I can be rejected because of my opinion. Somebody might not agree with me politically, spiritually,
00:23:39 whatever, and say you do number four, deeper, still level a, level four is emotion, sharing of emotions. Where we speak, man, you really hurt my feelings right now. Oh, I so appreciate you. Uh, you mean so much to our team? And then finally, level five, complete honesty. And rarely do we ever get to levels four and five because why we don't go past number three,
00:24:07 we don't like rejection. We don't say what needs to be said for fear of conflict. People do not like conflict. So they're not going to say what needs to be said at levels three, four and five. And they stay up in levels one and two. Absolutely meaningless, shallow, unproductive communication. And that hurts a team, especially a team of volunteers.
00:24:32 And, and within ministry, one of the things a lot of the folks that gravitate to ministry leadership because they are, you know, wired in a way that is very pastorial, very caring, very supportive. They like conflict even less. And so it's very easy for them to fear that, that deeper conversation because, because you're right, sometimes it feels like conflict,
00:24:56 even though it may not be conflict, it still feels like conflict doesn't matter because there's a risk involved of putting yourself out there. Um, so I, it, uh, it, it totally off topic, but really not it, it brings me to the idea of, you know, one of the things that people will talk about is, you know,
00:25:18 the sphere of public speaking. Um, you know, again, I preach in churches all over the state and people are like, how can you, how can you do that? How, why aren't you afraid? And I'm like, Oh no, I'm terrified. First off, anytime you do, speaking in public is a little frightening, but I'm being called to speak the gospel.
00:25:37 Right? That's terrifying. That's a responsibility beyond just talking. So, yeah, I'm terrified. And they're like, well, then how do you do it? And I'm like, well, it's not about not feeling fear. It's about recognizing, you know, again, the, the calling that I have to do that, the honor that I have to do that,
00:26:00 the privilege that I have, it's about coming into it with humility and recognizing, you know, at the end of the day, it's not me. You know, my job is to show up and preach what I've been called to preach, but not, it's not me. It's not on me. Um, and, but it's, it's a weird,
00:26:18 similar with conflict conversation. I've discovered that when I recognize the fact that this is not on me, you know, to make this work right, this is, this is a spiritual conversation, then it often makes it easier to have that difficult conversation. So, Gary, is there anything else you'd like to share with listener? Uh Hm. Yeah, I,
00:26:48 you know, I think that, um, something that has really helped me, um, my mom and dad were, uh, they're, they're both home with the Lord now, but just very common people. And I didn't inherit gobs of money or acres of ground or stock portfolios for my parents, but I inherited something from my mom and my dad,
00:27:12 both uniquely to each of them that has been beyond monetary value. And here's what I inherited from my mom that I would leave with, uh, your listeners. When my mom was born, she was the first child. Her mom died giving birth to her. So at birth she lost her mom. When my mom was five years old, her dad committed suicide by hanging because he could not get over the grief.
00:27:41 Mom was adopted by her grandma, her dad's mom and grandma Ritz raised my mom. And uh, the week of my mom's high school graduation, Gramma Ritz died of a massive heart attack at home. And then mom met my dad. They fell in love and they got married. Um, and my mom's uncle, uncle Reinhardt gave her a way, uh,
00:28:08 in the wedding, kind of like a, an adopted dad. Well, uncle Reinhardt right after mom and dad married, he contracted cancer and mom took care of uncle Reinhardt in their little two bedroom, newlywed apartment until the day that he died in their apartment. And then mom and dad became pregnant with their first child. My sister Mary and Mary lived one day after she was delivered.
00:28:36 And by the time my mom was 22 years of age, her mom died. Her dad died, her grandma died. Who raised her? Her uncle died, who gave her away in her wedding and her first child died by the age of 22. If anybody could be mad at God. It could have been my mom. But what I inherited from my mom,
00:28:58 Scott, was this in indomitable ability to see what is right with life. I grew up, I would complain about something and my mom would look at me and she'd say, Gary, you get a life. There are people with far greater problems in you, young man. And she would put me in my place over and over again. And I learned to look for what was good in life.
00:29:19 I never once heard my mom complain. I didn't hear my mom criticized people. She just had this sweet spirit of Jesus where she saw everything that was good in the land of the living. And so Psalm 27 verse 13 and verse 14 have become huge in my life, all my life. Uh, and that verse says, but I am still of this.
00:29:43 I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. So this side of heaven, I'm going to see God's goodness. When today if I open my eyes, I will see his goodness in my life. This side I haven't been and I can be confident of this. And then verse 14 says, wait on the Lord, be strong.
00:30:05 Take heart and wait on the Lord. And that has changed my life. Every morning a huge part of my morning devotions. I journal from the last 24 hours item after item after item of how I saw the goodness of the Lord. And uh, I have journals just full full of all of these. I'm not asking God for anything. I'm thanking God for everything.
00:30:32 And I, and I would just say to people, please lift your eyes onto the Hills and look, you will see God's indescribable mercy, grace, his love for you today. Um, because of his great compassion, we are not consumed. His mercies never fail. They are new every morning for great is his faithfulness. New mercies today, this morning,
00:30:55 all I have to do is look for them. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes
00:31:30 rate, all one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world..

In today's episode, I ask Gary about:

Leadership as a Christian...
His view of mentorship...
How the life map activity helps us focus on both building ourselves and others...
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Too Much: Living With Less in the Land of More By Dr. Gary Johnson

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Episode 616: Invest in Yourself – Interview with Dr. Gary Johnson – Part 1

May 25, 2020 By Scott Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 1 of the Interview with Dr. Gary Brown from E2 Effective Elders...

This is Part 1 of the interview I had with speaker, pastor, and teacher Dr. Gary Johnson.

Episode 616_ Invest in Yourself - Interview with Dr. Gary Johnson – Part 1

In today’s interview with Gary Johnson, I talk to Gary about his self-development process of a life map. I also talk to Gary about ministry leadership and self-leadership and why they are so important to all of us.

Join in on the Chat below.

00:00:00 Thanks for joining me on episode 616 of the inspired stewardship podcast. Hey friends, my name is Dr. Gary Johnson and uh, I serve as the executive director of effect of elders. I challenge you to invest in yourself, in others, and develop your influence while impacting the world by using your time, your talent, your treasures, to live out, your calling,
00:00:29 having the ability to grow yourself through self-leadership is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Mader. And just think with me a map. What does a map do? It guides us to a destination. So my life map guides me to a preferred destination on December the 31st every year.
00:01:14 Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact The world.
00:01:46 In today's interview with Dr. Gary Johnson, I talked to Gary about self development and his process of doing a life map. I also talked to Gary about ministry leadership and self-leadership and why both are important to all of us. One reason I like to bring you great interviews like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books,
00:02:17 but if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read, and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from and instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there.
00:02:44 That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books. The same way you're listening to this podcast, Dr. Gary Johnson has served in the preaching ministry for four. He now leads for effective elders as the executive director full time coaching pastors and elders nationwide. He holds numerous degrees in ministry and church history. Gary has taught as an adjunct professor for several seminaries including the Cincinnati Christian university and TCM Institute,
00:03:20 a seminary that serves Europe and Asia. Gary has been blessed to travel overseas for the purpose of training elders and pastors in cross cultural settings on over a hundred mission trips and Gary and Lee and Lee have been married over 40 years and have married sons, Jared and Aaron who are both serving in the ministry as pursuits outside of church life include running mountain climbing,
00:03:45 racquetball cycling and backpacking. Still one of the greatest joys in life for Gary is being called grandpa. By his six grandkids. Welcome to the show, Gary. Well, thank you Scott. It's a privilege to be invited. So we just talked in the intro. You've had this long career of helping church leaders in how they grow their own leadership when it comes to ministry,
00:04:09 church leadership, uh, these sorts of things. What are some of the unique challenges that ministry leaders face? Uh, great question. Uh, I think that there is one, uh, overwhelming challenge right now, um, facing leaders all across the country and literally around the world when it comes to leadership within the body of Christ. And that happens to be,
00:04:34 um, uh, what I call a leadership pipeline crisis. You know, uh, I've been to Alaska many times through work with our partner churches there. And, uh, when I go, I, I have taken people with me. Uh, for example, I've got a group of guys from church and we, uh, have gone to Fairbanks to help build a church building.
00:04:58 Uh, we went three summers in a row. Uh, it's a church plant and, um, we go outside of Fairbanks just a few miles to show these, uh, gentlemen the pipeline. The Alaskan pipeline. Now, what's interesting, the trans Alaska pipeline, uh, is, uh, hundreds of miles in length and it goes from the North slope,
00:05:22 uh, Crudo Bay down to Valdez. And when that pipeline opened back in the 1970s, it was flowing at a hundred percent capacity and it took on average four days for that oil to travel, those 600 plus miles. Now it takes 14 days. And the reason, uh, that pipeline is running at about a third capacity. So all of that extra oil with all of that extra heat is gone.
00:05:51 And one of the pipeline company officials told us if that capacity continues to drop, uh, it will, it will become critical because then the permafrost and the ground, uh, along with, um, uh, just a, a dwindling amount of heat in that pipeline will slow the oil so much that it could rupture the pipe. Well, and when he told us that,
00:06:15 I got to thinking there is a leadership pipeline crisis. We do not have record numbers of young people going to a Bible college seminary. Uh, they are not answering a call of God on their lives to be the next generation preachers, missionaries, uh, et cetera. And the same is true when it comes through volunteer leadership within the church. Uh,
00:06:42 we have a, you use the word challenge and I use the word challenge as well. And that challenge has become so grievous. Uh, it's becoming a crisis. The need to recruit, the need to equip, the need to onboard and empower what I call next generation leaders. That to me is one of the greatest challenges facing the body of Christ today.
00:07:07 Yeah. So I'm a, I'm a Methodist and I go every year to the annual conference. And two of the things that happen every year at the annual annual conference is we celebrate retirements and we honor the people that are entering into the ordination process. You know, becoming an actual minister leader through ordination. There's other types of leadership within ministry, but that's a specific one.
00:07:32 And for the last five years, you know, the number of retirees has been at least four or five times the number of people entering ministry. So, just as a very tangible, visible number, you know, that I see every single year and I'm actually involved in a lay ministry leadership and bringing up, uh, lay ministers and lay leaders within the church.
00:07:57 And, you know, we've seen the same thing there. The numbers have dwindled on the, on the lay side. So I've seen exactly what you're talking about. I would agree a hundred percent what, uh, you know, what, what do you see as, cause I think that's actually even a broader issue within, uh, within companies as well.
00:08:16 And you know, the secular world as well. Uh, there's always a challenge with bringing up new leaders effectively. What, uh, what have you seen as some of the ways to introduce people within the body of Christ to this idea of, of serving a calling through leadership? Well, uh, whether through the local ministry, that of which I've been a part.
00:08:38 So for example, I've spent 30 years as a senior minister of this church here in Indianapolis. It's a church of a few thousand in size. And we had to be very intentional, uh, with looking at people, uh, to see if they exhibited what we call the leadership gift. It says enrollments chapter 12 in verse eight, that if your gift is leadership,
00:09:01 then governed diligently. So we would look for people who exhibited traits of leadership and then we would, uh, ask them if they would like to enter into a time of leadership's study. And we would literally take them on a journey to discover what it means to be a leader in the body of Christ. Now, this ministry that I'm leading called effective elders,
00:09:32 uh, this ministry was started about nine years ago. Uh, myself and two colleagues, uh, the three of us were teaching, uh, some graduate courses at a seminary outside of Vienna, Austria. And, uh, the three of us have been friends for years. Uh, all three of us have served on faculties of seminaries. And while we were there,
00:09:53 we said, you know what, uh, the three of us, uh, between us, we, we've got lots of degrees. And, uh, we just said, you know, ministers, they can, they can go to conferences and seminars. They can get this master's degree, that doctoral degree, et cetera. But when it comes to volunteer leaders in the church,
00:10:11 particularly in our tribe, elders, elders are the spiritual leaders of the church. Nayana nothing available, no books, no literature, no, uh, seminars, et cetera. So the Holy spirit really convicted us while we were there, uh, teaching that summer and we came back to the States and we made a covenant to each other that we would begin,
00:10:34 uh, by God's grace, a ministry. And now, uh, that has happened. And I have handed the Baton off, uh, in senior leadership at the church after about 40 years of preaching ministry. And I'm leading as the executive director effective elders. We, in the last seven years, we've already spoken to over 7,000 elders across the country and around the world.
00:10:58 We've published 10 books on leadership. And, uh, what we do, uh, our mantra is to coach elder teams to win. Well, whether we're in Texas or Indiana, wherever we are, uh, universities, they recruit athletes to play on a team. The NBA, the NFL, they recruit players on a team in the local church. Scott,
00:11:25 we have to recruit people to be leaders. We look for talent and then we onboard that talent. We develop that talent, we train them. And once we feel confident, then we release them to use that leadership skill for the glory of God in the body of Christ. It has to be intentional. It does not happen by, And it certainly doesn't happen by accident.
00:11:57 Um, so when you think about, you know, one of the things you mentioned is, is inviting people into this period of, of self study and, and learning about, you know, what does it mean to be a leader within the body of Christ? Uh, so, you know, a lot of leadership is focused on this idea of leading others,
00:12:19 right? I mean, you know, kind of the, the, the old joke is, you know, if you're, if you're a leader and you turn around and look and nobody's following you, then you're probably not really doing a good job. But at the same time, there's a, uh, a factor of leadership that includes self development and self leadership,
00:12:36 for lack of a better word. So how does this kind of topic of leadership within the church expand to this idea of self-leadership? So one of the most important disciplines of anybody who's a leader, you are the founder. You are the leader of inspired stewardship. You have to exhibit self leadership. Uh, I'm the executive director of. I have to exhibit self leadership.
00:13:03 Uh, as a senior minister, I had to exhibit self-leadership. It's just this simple. How can I lead a church if I cannot lead myself? Uh, Paul the apostle, uh, when he's talking about the traits of an elder in first Timothy chapter three, he says, for example, you look for an elder candidate who leads his family. Well,
00:13:27 how can he lead the church? Paul asks if he can not lead his family, his home. And so, uh, self-leadership is a discipline that must be developed in the, in the life of a leader. Plato said, uh, the greatest victory is to conquer self. And we literally must develop a plan, uh, for taking ourselves as an individual to a better,
00:13:58 more effective place of leadership. I, um, I taught in an entire course in graduate school, in seminary on the art of self-leadership. It's essential. So one of the areas that I comes to mind immediately is people struggle with this intentionality when it comes to self growth and self development. You know, a lot of times people just sort of respond to what comes to them instead of being intentional in their plan.
00:14:31 And I know that, uh, you use a, a larger process very intentionally to help you focus on leadership and self self development, self growth. Can you talk a little bit about that process that you use and how can people use that to continue to focus their own in a more intentional Way? Absolutely. It's called a life mapping. Uh, and I developed this back in the early 1990s.
00:15:00 Uh, I was at that time finishing my M div and, um, we had been given an assignment in the class about a philosophy of ministry. So I wrote the paper and then I got to thinking why, why should I put all this time, energy and effort in developing a philosophy of ministry and just put it up on a shelf? So what I did,
00:15:21 I developed it into a very practical document and it quite literally is just simply a trifold. And I, I have one for every year of my life. And now just think with me a map, what does a map do? It guides us to a destination. So my life map guides me to a preferred destination on December the 31st every year. And,
00:15:50 uh, uh, in it, in my, uh, tri-fold, whether it's a, a hard print or whether it's a PDF, digital, uh, uh, when you open it, I have my personal vision statement. And a vision statement is a dream that you want to come true for your life. You're always pursuing it. And, uh,
00:16:14 to me it needs to be short so that it can be memorized. It needs to be a reflection of scripture. It needs to be scriptural and it needs to be measurable. Um, and for example, my vision statement just says simply providing help for today. Hope for tomorrow. And I can measure that. Uh, you know, here I am in a,
00:16:37 an interview with you. I'm hoping to provide some practical help for people who are subscribed to your podcast. Uh, I am hoping to provide some practical help on this topic of stewardship. So, uh, hope you know the preacher in me. And it's not just because I was a pastor all these decades, uh, my early years right out of undergrad,
00:17:00 I was a banker, a commercial banker, loved the bank, and I've often said if I get laid off in the church, I'm going to go back to the bank. I love the bank. And so it doesn't matter what moniker I where as in vocation, I want a pride, provide people for hope or with hope for the tomorrow of not only life but eternity.
00:17:21 So that's very easy to pursue, easy for me to remember, easy for me to measure. It's a reflection of scripture. Now then in my life map it says my mission statement, the mission is how the dream comes true. It's how the vision becomes reality. And I'm going to pursue providing help for today. Hope for tomorrow in three ways. Here's my mission.
00:17:45 That's how I'm going to do it. I'm going to invest relationally, number one. Number two, I'm going to equip biblically. And number three, I'm going to love unconditionally. So when I look at the life of Jesus, he did all three of those things, invested in relationships with people. Not only 12 disciples, but all of the people around him.
00:18:13 He was people rich in his time on earth. Number two, what did he do? He shared the word. He even said, uh, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. And then a shazamm. The word became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus was always, uh, presenting truth. So I want to equip people biblically.
00:18:37 That's the anchor. That's the source of what I teach. Uh, the help I provide the hope, um, for tomorrow. And then number three, loving people unconditionally. So that's how it went. When I lean into those three things, the dream comes true, the vision. And then I have four rank ordered core values. So vision, mission,
00:18:56 values, and these values are like the operating system, the computer that you and I are both using right now. We can't hear nor see the operating system, but we know that it's going on because we can hear it now. So I have four rank order core values. Number one, I value biblical authority. Number two, uh, God honoring unity.
00:19:20 I believe that we honor God when we, when we strive to be peacemakers, to be people who unite. Number three, Christ's like humility. And number four, spirit, Holy spirit led urgency. Those are the four operating values in my life. Now, all of those appear in my life map every year because that's who I am. That is my DNA as a person,
00:19:44 as a child of God. Now then what happens is every year I set clear objectives, specific objectives in my life personally and in relationship with others in my life professionally in ministry. And I hit print on that life map. And if I follow that life map, I'm going to reach on December the 31st every year, my desired, uh, destination that I will be different at the end of the year than when I began the year.
00:20:21 And I've been doing this, as I said, since the early 1990s and it's been a game changer. And, and the list, regular listeners of the show, we'll, we'll hear some echoes. Um, we talked last year at the end of the year I talked about my annual review process and the way that I've been doing this for, again not quite as long as you,
00:20:42 but for several decades now that I've kind of done the same process. And you know, a lot of the things you're talking about are in that same core of identify, you know, mission, identify your vision, identify your core values and then break down specific objectives in different areas. And how do you review, reflect, revise, you know, always kind of stuff.
00:21:06 Um, cause the idea is I, as I tell people, don't aim for perfection. Aim for just a little better today than you were yesterday. And if you can, if you do that every day, then you ended up in a pretty good place usually. So, you know, kind of on the topic of stewardship, uh, one of the books that you've,
00:21:26 you've got out is called too much living with less in the land of more, by the way, I love that title. Um, I started laughing whenever I read it. I'm like, boy, that is our app description of our world today. Uh, so would you talk a little bit about, you know, how that mindset and what that book is about in terms of the biblical principles that have outlines and how,
00:21:49 how can, recognizing, you know, that this is, we are living in the land of Moore and yet sometimes that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's also not necessarily a good thing and how we can help adjust our mindset to be in a more healthy relationship with them. Yeah. Um, so having been, uh, uh, a pastor for almost four decades,
00:22:12 um, uh, it was very important to preach about stewardship. Now, stewardship is not, not, not, not just about money. Um, and you know, many preachers don't want to preach about stewardship because they're afraid of what the people are going to say, right? And we have to preach and teach about money because everybody deals with money every day to put gas in the car,
00:22:37 food on the table, keep a roof over the head. If you cannot rub two nickels together, you are going to be in trouble. So, and when there are over 2000, 300 verses in the Bible about money and the things that money can buy when Jesus, uh, an enormous number of his parables were about money and the things that money can buy,
00:22:56 and never once did he make an apology. Oh, people, I'm so sorry. I've got to talk about money right now. Please forgive me. He never wants it. So it was a preacher years ago. I said, I'm going to preach the whole counsel of God. God wants us to have this aspect of our life in a good place,
00:23:12 right? Uh, and so at the church where I've been for many, many, many years, every year in November, we would preach about stewardship for four weeks. And we would often use a book as supplemental material alongside the Bible for life groups, Bible study groups, et cetera. So, um, I dunno, a few years ago I decided,
00:23:38 well, I'm going to just write a book about this and hence the book too much. And then the living with less than the land, more. My wife and I have been married 42 years and we have lived according to this equation, practices plus principles equals real profit. And when I say real profit, I mean husbands and wives who do not argue over money,
00:24:10 where children do not hear their children or excuse me, their parents biting, uh, with escalating, uh, screaming going on when children do not grow up in fear of being, um, uh, put out of an apartment or a house, uh, having to move in the middle of the night. When we look at the word of God and discover these four principles and we add them every day to four practices,
00:24:39 we can sleep well even in the deepest of recession right now, COBIT 19, uh, uh, as of the morning news today, 30 million Americans are now unemployed. I believe that if we have our financial house in order, we survive moments like this. Now you want me to give you a very quickly the four principles and the four practices? Okay?
00:25:02 Let's please, when we look in the word of God, uh, Gratta and I'm going to give you the four principles. So gratitude, trusting God, humility, humility. And um, we have to stop and think through humility, contentment, trust, Oh, those are contentment, contentment, humility, trust in God and gratitude. When I add those two,
00:25:33 here are my four practices, budgeting, saving, giving and debt-free, living, paying cash. When I add those practices with the principles, I'm in a much better place with real profits. So for example, how can I bring the whole tie, the end of the storehouse to Jesus? If I don't trust Jesus in the first place, right? How can I be content with what I have,
00:26:09 um, reflected in budgeting? See, for example, I will never budget and just say, I'm going to live within my means. That'll never happen unless I'm content, right? Because there are people who buy into the myth of more all the time in America, shiny or newer, faster, more stylish, more for them is never enough. So,
00:26:34 uh, uh, and I didn't learn this, um, in a seminar. I just, my dad was a humble factory worker, has empire life. My mom was a stay at home mom and I watched my dad manage his limited income. He had a business on the side, uh, and we never went without. Um, so Yeah, it's,
00:26:59 it's interesting cause again, um, the, so one of the things that I do as a coach within the stewardship realm obviously is financial coaching. And in first off, as you said, stewardship way more than money, you know, which is why we talk about time, talent. We talk about all the dimensions, but the, I, you know,
00:27:16 this idea of what I found is for a lot of people, money is a big stumbling block that holds them back from stewardship so that we end up spending a lot of time there a lot of the time. Um, and you know, everything that you're echoing there is, is exactly up up the alley. And what's interesting is having clients that I've been working with for awhile and then we come into this covert 19 situation and universally,
00:27:43 every single one of them is like, I am so glad that we were working together for six months before this all started. Because as you said, they have some sense of, doesn't mean everything's working perfectly, but they still have a sense of peace around it because they've got control, they understand, you know, they're, they're able to react in a productive way.
00:28:01 Um, and so, you know, if you're not in that situation, uh, reach out and get, get help from somebody because it is possible to live that way. It really, And my encouragement to preachers, please, please have the courage to talk and the discipline to preach about this very important part of life every year, every year. Because you see teenagers today,
00:28:26 they may not be learning anything about this in a public school system or wherever they attend. They might not be seeing this practiced by their moms and their dads because their mom and their dads did not learn this. Right? We have to do this for the wellbeing of generations that are coming after us. I believe that, um, uh, FPU financial peace university has become so very popular because people have been so desperately in need of it.
00:28:50 Right? Uh, and so, uh, churches, dozens and dozens of churches have used this book of mine. I have a life group curriculum that goes with it for four weeks. Uh, I have a videography that ministers can use on a jump drive to help them prepare the four week series. So, uh, dozens of churches have used this.
00:29:12 And I can remember the president of a bank, uh, in, uh, Kentucky, their congregation used it and he contacted me and he said, even as a president of the bank, uh, I want dozens of these books to give to people. It's just so practical, number one. And number two, it is rooted in the word of God.
00:29:30 Right? So, yeah, it's interesting cause I, I've actually been invited several times by, by pastors to come in. Uh, and I do this around the state Texas mainly. Um, though I'd be happy to go somewhere else. It's just that that happens to be where I'm better known, uh, both for workshops within a church or leading sessions within a church as well as just coming in and preaching.
00:29:54 Um, you know, cause sometimes having someone from outside come in and talk about it makes it a little easier to at least start the conversation. Cause quite frankly, at the end of the day, I go home and I don't have to look at the people the next day. So it's at least gets the conversation started sometimes. Um, and I've done that several times for,
00:30:13 for churches to come in on their stewardship Sunday and, and speak, um, or, or preach from the pulpit on that topic. I've done Q and A's too. Uh, but you're correct. That's a topic that there's actually only a handful of States that I even have a curriculum, uh, around personal finance. Um, even if they have accounting or economics,
00:30:31 they don't have a personal finance class, which is different. Um, and I think there's five States now, something like that, that actually have personal finance as part of their curriculum. Otherwise it's probably not in public school for most of us. So, Gary, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener? Uh Hm. Yeah, I,
00:30:52 you know, I think that, um, something that has really helped me, um, my mom and dad were, uh, they're, they're both home with the Lord now, but just very common people. And, uh, I didn't inherit gobs of money or acres of ground or stock portfolios for my parents, but I inherited something from my mom and my dad,
00:31:16 both uniquely to each of them that has been beyond monetary value. And here's what I inherited from my mom that I would leave with. Uh, your listeners. When my mom was born, she was the first child. Her mom died giving birth to her. So at birth, she lost her mom. When my mom was five years old, her dad committed suicide by hanging because he could not get over the grief.
00:31:45 Mom was adopted by her grandma, her dad's mom and grandma Ritz raised my mom. And uh, the week of my mom's high school graduation, grandma Ritz died of a massive heart attack at home. And then mom met my dad. They fell in love and they got married. Um, and my mom's uncle, uncle Reinhardt gave her a way, uh,
00:32:13 in the wedding, kind of like a, an adopted dad. Well, uncle Reinhardt right after mom and dad married, he contracted cancer and mom took care of uncle Reinhardt in their little two bedroom, newly apartment until the day that he died in their apartment. And then mom and dad became pregnant with their first child. My sister Mary and Mary lived one day after she was delivered.
00:32:41 And by the time my mom was 22 years of age, her mom died. Her dad died, her grandma died. Who raised her? Her uncle died, who gave her away in her wedding and her first child died by the age of 22. If anybody could be mad at God. It could have been my mom. But what I inherited from my mom,
00:33:03 Scott, was this in indomitable ability to see what is right with life. I grew up, I would complain about something and my mom would look at me and she'd say, Gary, you'd get a life. There are people with far greater problems in you, young man. And she would put me in my place over and over again. And I learned to look for what was good in life.
00:33:24 I never once heard my mom complain. I didn't hear my mom criticized people. She just had this sweet spirit of Jesus where she saw everything that was good in the land of the living. And so Psalm 27 verse 13 and verse 14 have become huge in my life, all my life. And that verse says, but I am still confident of this.
00:33:47 I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. So this side of heaven, I'm going to see God's goodness. When today if I open my eyes, I will see his goodness in my life. This side I haven't been and I'm, I can be confident of this. And then verse 14 says, wait on the Lord,
00:34:09 be strong. Take heart and wait on the Lord. And that has changed my life. Every morning a huge part of my morning devotions. I journal from the last 24 hours item after item after item of how I saw the goodness of the Lord. And, uh, I have journals just full full of all of these. I'm not asking God for anything.
00:34:34 I'm thanking God for everything. And I, and I would just say to people, please lift your eyes onto the Hills and look, you will see God's indescribable mercy, grace, his love for you today. Um, because of his great compassion, we are not consumed. His mercies never fail. They are new every morning for great is his faithfulness.
00:34:57 New mercies today, this morning, all I have to do is look for them. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode, please, please do us a favor.
00:35:32 Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate, all one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

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Ministry leadership and self-leadership...
Why they are so important to all of us...
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Too Much: Living With Less in the Land of More By Dr. Gary Johnson

A map let's us find our destination. A life map let's us know the destination we are aiming for on December 31st each year. - Dr. Gary Johnson

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Episode 611: Impact the World – Interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum – Part 4

May 18, 2020 By Scott Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 4 of the Interview with Matt & Jocelyn Woodrum, host of the Family Life Movement Podcast...

This is Part 4 of the interview I had with Jocelyn and Matt (and a guest appearance by their youngest daughter) about family and business.

Episode 611_ Impact the World - Interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum - Part 4

In today’s interview with Matt & Jocelyn Woodrum from the Family Life Movement podcast I ask them to share their own definition of stewardship. As well I ask them to share their best tips for making a real impact. Matt and Jocelyn also share some of their hopes and dreams for the future.

Join in on the Chat below.

00:00:00 Thanks for joining me on episode 611 of the inspired stewardship podcast I met and I'm Jocelyn from the family life movement podcast. We challenge you to find a way to balance your work and your family. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this inspired stewardship podcast by my friend Scott Mader are white. Don't have to and shouldn't be the only person working in the house. You know, it should be us. It should be, you know, whether that's being a stay at home parent or working full time or you know,
00:00:45 whatever that is, you know, it's, it's not our wives job to do the dishes. We're not above that. It's not our job to mow the grass. Uh, instead, welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world. and today's interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum for the family life movement podcast.
00:01:34 I ask them to share their own definition of stewardship and the impact it's had on them as well. I asked them to share their best tips for making a real impact on the world and Matt and Jocelyn also talk and share some of their hopes and dreams for the future. One reason I like to bring you great interviews like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books, but if you're like most people today,
00:02:06 you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there that's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books. The same way you're listening to this podcast. Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum had been married for 12 years and have three beautiful daughters and really they are.
00:02:48 And later on you'll hear about their Facebook page. You see pictures of the kiddos on there all the time and they are acuities. They enjoy traveling while Jocelyn continues to work as a speech language pathologist. And yes, she's still working even right now during this time of covert 19. And they, they constantly move, they move locations every few months. I, I joke that every time I talked to Matt, they're in a different house. Um, so Matt is at home with the girls homeschooling and at the same time they're trying to try to balance creating a business and of course maintaining their own household together.
00:03:25 They host a podcast called the family life movement. I've been a guest on there that's focused on creating a community of family focused entrepreneurs who build profitable businesses that allow them to have a business without sacrificing their kids or their family. Welcome to the show, Matt and Jocelyn, thanks for having us. Thanks. We're excited to be here. So one of the questions that I've, I've started trying to ask everybody, you know, with the title of the show being inspired, stewardship and stewardship is a filter through which I run my coaching through which I run my business.
00:03:58 So I started asking people about that word because what I've discovered is it means different things to different people. So Matt and Jocelyn, how would you define stewardship as a person, as a business owner, as a parent? Um, and what impact has that definition had on your life? I think the stewardship to me being grateful for what I've got. You know, I, as a Christian, I live with the mentality that everything I've got comes from God. The money that I've got, the clothes I've got on my back,
00:04:33 the bed, the air mattress that we, Jocelyn and I both sleep on because we're traveling the cars that we've got. And if we've got this mentality that everything comes from God, you know, including our financial resources and different things like that, then our mentality changes of, Hey, you know what? All of a sudden I want to take a little bit better care of God's car because he's letting me have it. He's keeping it together. I want to take care of God's daughter, my wife.
00:05:04 And that's exactly how I view Jocelyn. She's my wife. Even more so. She's the daughter of God. And when we change our mentality, we take care of the things that we have. We're thankful. We have an attitude of gratitude for those things that we have, no matter how big they are or how small, you know, there's, there's people who do podcasts and they've got a microphone that costs a couple hundred dollars more than what I've done. Uh, and you know, my microphone's at the top of the line and different things.
00:05:34 But I'm very thankful for what I've got because it's in my mind, it's a gift from God. There are other people who have better and nicer cars. That's awesome. But the car I've got was a gift from God that it's now my job to take care of is my job to respect. It's my job to take care of it, to do things that I think and I feel like God would have done with his stuff. And so stewardship to me means understanding that nothing I own is mine. And then the second part of that is that everything that I have,
00:06:14 everything that I own, everything from Oh man to the cell phone charging cords all the way up to my car, to this apartment that we're in. It's stuff like that. All of it's gods at any given point, any given time, God has the right and the privilege to take any of it away. And so that means that I'm very thankful for my three ring binder. It means I'm thankful for the toilet brush. So right now a lot of people are thankful for toilet paper. exactly.
00:06:52 And so stewardship to me simply means taking care of what I've been given and my definition. Yeah. And you were talking about physical possessions. I was actually thinking more along the lines of money, which is it's the same. Um, you know, you want to make sure that you're using what income money you have. Um, it is a blessing from God. Um, and we need to be using it properly. So if someone really wants to make a dent in the universe, what would be a principle or a resource or a tip that you would give them on how they can really make an impact?
00:07:34 That's what we all want to do to make a dent in the universe. We really need to be visible to the world,
00:07:42 otherwise we're not going to be able to, um, make an any income, any kind of an impact.
00:07:49 Um, and, and to do that, you know, it, it's going to vary depending on your,
00:07:53 your platform and your, what your business is. Of course. Um, and, and it's interesting,
00:07:59 I'm actually just thinking about something along these lines recently. Um, as a speech therapist, I feel like there's a lot I could be doing more than just working at a nursing home.
00:08:09 I mean, as, as important as that is, I can reach my impact. I can make it reach more people if I find a different way to run that.
00:08:18 Um, and, and the only, really the only way to do that is to just be visible.
00:08:24 Um, and right now it's such a digital media, internet world. That's probably the best way to do it is through podcasts and Facebook lives and YouTube and things like that.
00:08:37 Yeah, I would say that if somebody really wants to make a dent on the impact, I think there's something powerful about being your authentic self.
00:08:46 You know, in an earlier podcast we talked a lot about, you know, imperfect action and stuff like that.
00:08:51 Um, if somebody really wants to make an impact, uh, impact in the world, be yourself,
00:08:58 share your struggles, share, Hey, you guys, we don't have the perfect marriage. We don't have everything figured out.
00:09:04 Your message, your message. Exactly. Because people are going to see that and they're going to be able to connect with that.
00:09:11 You know your listeners, if they're wanting to build a business and they've got a family, they're going to respect that.
00:09:18 During the podcast, the last couple of podcasts, there's been a screaming kid in the background because they're going to know what that's like.
00:09:25 They're going to know, Hey, Holy cow, here's some people who don't have it figured out, who like me can't shut their kid up.
00:09:32 And, and there are some still ran out of duct tape so that my wife had by our comment when,
00:09:44 when David was very little, our son is, my wife came out of his room one day after she'd had one of those days with him and he's finally asleep and she walks into the living room and she looks at me and she goes,
00:09:58 I never understood how someone could hurt a child until today. And I mean, we didn't, you know,
00:10:04 there was no money involved. The child survived. But, but literally it was like you didn't even comprehend that.
00:10:10 And now all of a sudden it's like, I understand how somebody who's trapped at home with a screaming child all day could actually do that.
00:10:17 I mean, now again, that doesn't excuse it. That's not what I mean. But you comprehend the feeling.
00:10:23 It's like, Oh my Lord, you could be completely overwhelmed and if you aren't equipped to take care of yourself and take care of the child,
00:10:30 that could happen. Obey. But it's okay to walk away. That's where it, exactly. That's again,
00:10:38 the line that we've used with our child. You need to go to your room right now, not because for your own safety.
00:10:43 Okay. You know this is, this is literally like we need some distance because I don't want to do anything that is wrong.
00:10:52 So you go away for a little while. By the way, we still do that. He's 17 now.
00:10:57 I have a feeling that what? That line is going to be coming out at some point. Oh no.
00:11:02 Yeah, we, we've told, we told my son when he was about four, we were like,
00:11:05 you need to go to your room right now for your own safety. Okay. Just go in there,
00:11:08 close the door, wait 15 minutes and then we'll talk. That was, that was the day that,
00:11:15 I can't even remember what it was that he did, but it was something particularly, particularly four year old boy,
00:11:21 if that makes sense. So, sorry Matt, I cut you off. But it reminded me of that and that's why I think these conversations are so important to have because there's somebody listening right now who is going to be able to relate to,
00:11:36 you know, Jocelyn IRA's saying, and because we're being real, because we're being honest, because you know,
00:11:41 through the giggles and laughter and the nervousness and, and having a screaming kid in the background, if somebody is going to be able to relate to where we're at,
00:11:51 the mess, the, the conversations that we've had. Somebody listens to our podcast. It's not always,
00:11:56 you know, clean cut, cookie cutter. You know, we've had all three of our girls at one point or another,
00:12:02 you know, quote unquote cohost our, uh, our, our podcasts. But I think that there is something to be said with you know,
00:12:10 authenticity and taking your mess and turning it into your message. And you absolutely can do this, that you can take one step and put it in front of the other that,
00:12:22 you know, one of the things I love about your story sky is, you know, you, you shared on our podcast,
00:12:27 and I'm sure your listeners know, uh, about your story and the struggles that you've had in financial struggles and how they got to your head.
00:12:35 And so the reason why people can, can come to you and talk to you is because they can relate to you and your story.
00:12:43 So get out there, publish, tell your story, get out there and share your mess. Not because it makes you look bad,
00:12:50 but because it makes you actually, I believe it makes you look good to look authentic and makes you look real.
00:12:58 It makes you look relatable. It makes you, uh, it draws people to you. So if you really want to make a dent in the universe,
00:13:07 take your mess wherever you're at, whether that's financial stress, whether that's marriage, stress regarding divorce, kids,
00:13:14 uh, some sort of addiction or something like that. Get on, be authentic, started publishing like Jocelyn said there a blog,
00:13:21 a podcast video and all that good fun stuff and turn your message, your message, because there's somebody else out there that needs to hear what you're saying and needs to hear how you went through and accomplish all of those goals either with a one year old kid screaming in the background.
00:13:42 And if that's your message, then the person you're talking to or the person you know that, that the message is for,
00:13:49 they're going to be able to relate to that. Um, and, and, and again, I mean,
00:13:52 I, you know, I family life movement, this is part of y'alls quote brand, right? Is that idea of how,
00:13:59 how do you do life? How do you do business? How do you do family all in the real world?
00:14:05 Because, you know, it isn't always perfect. It isn't always clear. You know, I'm lucky enough that now I have an office that is mine,
00:14:14 you know, but, but that's not always the case. And if it's not okay, you know,
00:14:21 and again, I have a 17 year old, so it's very easy for me to tell him I'm going to go record.
00:14:25 I need an hour. He's fine, you know, but not very different. Well, actually right now he's kind of reached the point because he's been in self isolation where he's basically saying,
00:14:38 you know, I, I would like school to start again so I can see people, you know,
00:14:42 he, he's, he's about done with this thing home thing. He, he's, he's, uh,
00:14:48 uh, he's not thrilled about it. So Madden and Jocelyn, if, if you could travel into the far future,
00:14:55 go forward in time 150 years, let's say, and you looked back on your life, 50 a hundred,
00:15:01 whatever, you know, you're no longer here. Um, what impact do you hope you've had on the world?
00:15:07 I don't necessarily want people to, I don't feel like my name needs to be remembered. I just want people to know that it is possible to focus on whatever your goals are and have a family at the same time.
00:15:25 I think that there's a misconception a lot of times that you can't do both. Um, and you know,
00:15:30 there's, you know, there's a lot of mommy bloggers out there, but then there's also a lot of people who really focus on business and I,
00:15:37 we're trying to mesh that together. I feel like I'm in a way that you can have, I don't want to say have it all,
00:15:46 but, you know, and in some regard I do want, I just want there maybe, maybe,
00:15:51 um, I think, I don't know what, you know, 150 years down the road, what business is going to look like.
00:15:58 I feel like it's going to look very different than what we think than what it is now. I mean,
00:16:05 I think, I think even after Alex COBIT stuff, things are gonna look very, very different. How businesses works.
00:16:10 Um, just because people are realizing, Hey, we can't make people work from home. Um, yeah.
00:16:17 So I just, just knowing that it is possible, I think it's probably the biggest, the biggest thing I want.
00:16:26 So there's a couple of things. One, I want both parents to know that they are essential for childhood development because without both parents,
00:16:39 without mommy and daddy, my girls do not have that proper founded a foundation. Now, if you're a single parent out there,
00:16:48 I was raised by a single parent. I know how phenomenal you're doing. I have a small understanding of how difficult your job is,
00:16:56 keep up the good work. But one of the biggest things I want and family life movement is for people to know and understand,
00:17:04 Hey, my wife, you know, this whole idea of, uh, of equality, right? I believe that God created us different but with equal value.
00:17:17 My wife is just as important as I am in this family for different reasons. And I think that that's important to know,
00:17:25 is important to understand that she has gifts, that she has, ways that she can help people, that I would never be able to,
00:17:31 she can reach people that I'll never be able to. And when I understand that I value her, I value her uniqueness.
00:17:38 I value her not as somebody below me or somebody as I'm supposed to be. You are a leader of her or anything like that.
00:17:45 But I value her as a, as a gift from God. At the same time, you know,
00:17:51 it's especially with wrestling with fatherhood, my kind of my other business I've got going on and stuff, I won't mend that understanding.
00:18:00 Discover your strengths, understand your own value, uh, accomplish your goals and you can live out your dreams.
00:18:05 Become your children's biggest heroes. Uh, men. If you're listening, it's not time for us to man up.
00:18:12 It's time for us to data. It's time for us to get into our kids' lives. It's time for us to take this incredible and as this awesome responsibility of raising our kids,
00:18:21 raising our sons, of raising our daughters. Our wives don't have to insure, be the only person working in the house.
00:18:30 You know, it should be us. It should be, you know, whether that's being a stay at home parent or working full timers or you know,
00:18:36 whatever that is, you know, it's not our wife's job to do the dishes. We're not above that.
00:18:42 It's not our wives job to, to mow the grass. Uh, instead that we had this insane value and that we need to own up to this incredible responsibility we have to our family.
00:18:54 Whether that's in a business, you know, like family life movement, we're, you know, our job is to Deliv and try to make our children's lives better and make our life,
00:19:08 our wife lives a little bit better, you know, by making and creating a business and bringing them home so that the entire family can be together or whether that's as a man,
00:19:18 like understanding our own personal mindset and getting over our own demons, getting our over our own struggle and our own mess so that we can move that and get that out of the way so that we can be,
00:19:29 become the best version of ourselves for our kids. So what's coming next for Matt and Jocelyn and the family life movement as you continue on this journey towards living out your call and impacting the world?
00:19:46 Oh, the next thing that we're working on is on May 1st we're going to be launching a group coaching program.
00:19:53 And that group coaching program is all about helping people to be able to build a business to create that,
00:19:59 that initial income that will, you know, that first thousand dollars. Cause once you make those first that you make that first step,
00:20:07 the next step is a little easier and then the next step is a little easier. So it's a 12 week program.
00:20:12 Uh, can't wait to go and do that. We're going to be talking about affiliate marketing and eCommerce and coaching and speaking and publishing and how do you create an income doing all of this so that once you've created an income and have that money coming in,
00:20:32 you can be at home with your spouse, with your kids, making that impact in their life. If we're going to be continuing the podcast that's not going away.
00:20:43 Um, and we are maybe looking at coaching at some point as well on top of the group coaching.
00:20:51 Um, it's group coaching slash course is kind of the way I'm looking at it. It does have like a course component.
00:20:58 It's going to be 12 weeks, 12 weeks long, and every week there's a different component. So we'll talk about websites and funnels.
00:21:05 We'll talk about uh, your, you know, your avatar and, and, uh, different key businesses that you can go into and,
00:21:12 and different things. So like each week there's going to be a specific goal. So at the end of that week,
00:21:18 your, the goal is going to be to know how to build up your own website to build up your own funnel.
00:21:23 Uh, you know, the next week is going to be all about building up and understanding traffic and how to get people onto your website and different things.
00:21:32 So I'm pretty excited for that. It's going to be fun. I definitely think that we are going to be continuing to travel as well as a family.
00:21:39 Um, and I don't know if that necessarily is going to be impacting family life movement in any way,
00:21:47 but I mean that's, that's a dream of ours right now. Um, and keep on working on trying to bring me home is the ultimate goal.
00:21:59 I don't know that if I'll ever completely stop working, but having that as an option would be really nice.
00:22:05 Yeah, I would definitely say like, I want these businesses to get to the point where Jocelyn has the option to work because when she's got the oxygen,
00:22:15 she's no longer stressed out about money and finances and having to go to work and different things like that.
00:22:21 If she wants to, she can do some PRN work or some work where she has paid as needed.
00:22:28 She can still go and help people. But at the same time she can be at home with her kids,
00:22:32 boating up her daughters and it being the phenomenal mom that she is. So Matt and Jocelyn, is there anything else you'd like to share with the Lister?
00:22:43 Uh, yes. Uh, Matt created, um, a workbook. Um, it's called the five areas to change your life.
00:22:51 It's all about a lot of it's about mindset and um, it has very actionable steps in it. Um,
00:22:58 but it's free and it's on our website, family life movement.com. And it's right there at the top of the page.
00:23:03 So I want to say no matter where you're at, no matter where you're at, physically, mentally,
00:23:10 emotionally, spiritually, that you got up this morning and you know that that's, that's a gift. So take that first step.
00:23:19 Whatever your goals are, whatever your dreams are, you know, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally,
00:23:23 spiritually with your kids, with your wife. Take that first step at first step is the hardest. Once you've taken that first step,
00:23:31 if you've already taken it, take one more. Just one more guys, we look at life. When we look at business,
00:23:38 when we look at our marriage, our children and stuff like that. So many times we want to be at the top of Mount Everest.
00:23:43 We want the best business, want the best marriage. We want the best relationship with our kids. Guys,
00:23:49 it starts one step at a time. Taking one moment at a time, one minute at a time,
00:23:53 one hour at a time, one day at a time when we get a time, one month at a time.
00:23:57 You guys can do this. I've got an absolute faith in you guys and you guys are already taken a great step by listening to my friend Scott spot gas so you can find out more about the family life movement over@familylifemovementdotcomandyoucanfindthatcommunityoveronfacebookatfacebook.com slash groups family life movement.
00:24:21 You can find all of the social media links and all of that stuff over on the website as well as that great free download.
00:24:27 So thanks for much so much for coming on the show today. Oh, a lot of fun. Thanks for having us.
00:24:33 It's great fun. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener,
00:24:49 we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling.
00:24:59 If you enjoyed this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate,
00:25:11 all one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed.
00:25:26 Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

In today's episode, I ask Matt & Jocelyn about:

Their own definition of stewardship...
Their best tips for making a real impact...
Some of their hopes and dreams for the future...
and more.....

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Episode 606: Develop Your Influence – Interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum – Part 3

May 11, 2020 By Scott Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 3 of the Interview with Matt & Jocelyn Woodrum, host of the Family Life Movement Podcast...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with Jocelyn and Matt (and a guest appearance by their youngest daughter) about family and business.

Episode 606_ Develop Your Influence - Interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum - Part 3

In today’s interview with Matt & Jocelyn Woodrum from the Family Life Movement podcast, I ask them about their definition of leadership. I also ask them to share their advice to couples that work together and want to remain together despite that. I also ask them to share some of their podcasting tips.

Join in on the Chat below.

00:00:00 Thanks for joining me on episode 606 of the inspired stewardship podcast I met, and I'm Jocelyn from the family life movement podcast. We challenge you to find a way to balance your work and your family. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast by my friend Scott Mader.. Uh, there's something to be said, or Jocelyn is very good about being logical. So when we do a podcast, she's a lot better. She's doing the show notes than what I am.
00:00:45 Uh, you know, at the same time, I'm a lot better beyond on the front end. I don't get embarrassed easy. I'm not afraid to say something silly. Uh, I'm not scared of my kids that erupted me. I can still go for flow. I can pick it up. Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling.
00:01:14 In the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can. In today's interview with Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum for the family life movement podcast, I asked them about their definition of leadership. I also ask them to share their advice to couples that are working together and want to remain together. Despite that, I also asked them to share some of their own podcasting tips and how that's worked for them. One reason I like to bring you great interviews like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others.
00:01:59 Another great way to learn from others is through reading books, but if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there that's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books.
00:02:36 The same way you're listening to this podcast. Matt and Jocelyn Woodrum had been married for 12 years and have three beautiful daughters and really they are. And later on you'll hear about their Facebook page. You see pictures of the kiddos on there all the time and they are acuities. They enjoy traveling while Jocelyn continues to work as a speech language pathologist. And yes, she's still working even right now during this time of covert 19. And they, they constantly move, they move locations every few months. I,
00:03:08 I joke that every time I talked to Matt, they're in a different house. Um, so Matt is at home with the girls homeschooling and at the same time they're trying to try to balance creating a business and of course maintaining their own household together. They host a podcast called the family life movement. I've been a guest on there that's focused on creating a community of family focused entrepreneurs who build profitable businesses that allow them to have a business without sacrificing their kids or their family. Welcome to the show, Matt and Jocelyn,
00:03:44 thanks for having us. Thanks. We're excited to be here. Matt and Jocelyn. So one thing that people often think of is developing their influence is being a leader. You know, last week we ended the episode talking a little bit about servant leaders. So how would you define the word leadership? I think I'm going to go back to what I said at the end of the last episode with the whole servant leadership. You have to lead by example and by allowing yourself to be humble in, um,
00:04:25 in your leadership, I guess. Um, I think that's going to be a really good, um, it's, it's, it's easier to follow somebody who is leading like that as well. I would completely agree. I love this idea of servant leadership that my college really tried to instill in us. Because, you know, you look at Jesus and he never sat here and told somebody what to do or how to do it. He went out and showed them. And in today's society, it's really easy to stand back and,
00:04:59 and had the I'm over you mentality. You know, if I'm a, if I'm a leader in my home, you know, my, my goal, my desire, my, my instruction as I understand it, is not to sit here and boss my kids around. It's not to sit here and be a dictator. Instead, my goal should be deleted. Uh, you know, my, my daughters by example. So what does that mean in our household? That means, uh, opening the door for my wife.
00:05:27 I, I'm old fashioned and that, that's actually something she told me to stop doing before, but I still do it. You know, it's about, you know, holding my wife's hand, uh, leading by example. It's about making sure I kiss my wife in front of my girls. I do that because I want them to see that I am affectionate and I love my wife no matter what the atmosphere is or if we're frustrated. One another. Uh, whenever she gets home, I try to,
00:06:01 I stand up, I give her a hug and a kiss. I do that out of respect. Uh, so that my girls know that when they're out and they're dating, they're in the dating world. They're not going to be kissing you at 30, at 30, at 35. Would you allow them today when they're mature enough to do it? So I can do a couple of things. I can either sit here and say, Hey, girls, don't get a guy like this. This is not the type of person you want to date.
00:06:30 Or I can say girls, the guy that you want to date or let into your life, he should be treating you with the same respect that I treat your mother. He should be opening the car doors for you. He should be kissing you. He should be holding you not until they're married, I'm sorry. And that's the whole thing about leading by example. It's really easy to sit here and say, Hey, you know what, don't go for this type of person or whatever. But when you go and you live that out,
00:07:07 yeah, that's what leadership means. That's what, uh, you know, taking the example that Jesus showed us, his example, uh, was all about,
00:07:17 you know, go minister and if necessary, use words like that. So we're all influences, influencers.
00:07:28 And you were just talking about influencing your daughters, uh, in, in family and business in different ways.
00:07:34 So here's the question for the two of you. Y'all are trying to do business together as a couple.
00:07:41 So how can couples that are trying to do business together actually stay sane and preferably not kill each other while,
00:07:49 while working together and being married and trying to raise ghettos all at the same time? Um, I'm going to go back to some of our early episodes.
00:07:58 Um, communication is critical. Um, something that we've learned in doing this since December is that we kind of have to put our own,
00:08:11 have our own jobs within the business. So like I do a lot of the background stuff and Matt does a lot more of the in person stuff.
00:08:21 Um, I'm a little bit better at website design and he's a little bit better at editing. Um,
00:08:27 so we, we divvy things up and I think that, you know, so I'm trusting him to do take care of that and he's trusting me to take care of my end of things.
00:08:36 Um, so that when we were trying to wait on each other, um, a lot more was,
00:08:43 it was a lot harder. Um, even though it sounds like it shouldn't be, like if he was waiting on me and I had a really long work day and the kids wouldn't sleep,
00:08:51 and so then I'm exhausted and it's nine 30 and I'm trying to go to bed and he's, we still have to do this.
00:08:56 And I'm like, I don't have the brain power to do this right now. Um, whereas, uh,
00:09:04 he, he's, yeah. Whereas if he has time during the day when, you know, the kids are having like a rest time or a movie break,
00:09:12 um, and, um, he can get, he can rock out whatever he needs to do editing wise and I can rock it out easier on Saturday morning or whatever.
00:09:21 Um, so it's just, it's just having that communication and figuring out what's working for us and it's an ongoing conversation cause like what's working today might be completely different in three months when I'm in a different location.
00:09:34 Um, and or my is different. Like right now my caseload's a little on the low side, but it could be very different in a few months when all these people are coming out of the hospitals.
00:09:44 Um, so yeah, I think that's, that's really critical. I would agree. You know, I think that there is something to be said for playing to couple's strengths.
00:09:56 Uh, there's something to be said for Jocelyn is very good about being logical. So when we do a podcast,
00:10:04 she's a lot better doing the show notes than what I am. Uh, you know, at the same time I'm a lot better at being out on the front end.
00:10:11 I don't get embarrassed easy. I'm not afraid to say something silly. Uh, I'm not scared of my kids interrupting me.
00:10:18 I can still go with the flow. I can pick it up. Um, and the reason why that's important is because I think Jocelyn would,
00:10:29 she would get more frazzled I guess might be a word. And so if we weren't playing to each other's strengths,
00:10:37 it would be so much harder to move forward. And we did have a period of time where I was frazzled cause I was trying to be not in my element in trying to do lives and things like that.
00:10:48 And that just wasn't working for me. And it was, I was really stressed. I was in tears.
00:10:52 Yeah. And I think that that comes back to Scott, one of the things I love about you and your mission and what you do is,
00:11:00 is understanding each other's personality types. As somebody who's very outgoing and stuff like that, it takes nothing for me to jump on and do a live.
00:11:10 If anything, I have to hold myself back from rambling. Uh, you know, and you know,
00:11:17 Jocelyn's comfort zone, her zone of genius isn't in front of the camera. It's not always, you know,
00:11:24 doing these different things, but instead she does a phenomenal job in the background. Or she's said he or she said any of you know,
00:11:35 funnels and helping with the website and you know, how do you word something so that it connects better with somebody.
00:11:44 And so when we play to each other's, uh, you know, zone of genius, it just seems to work out so much better.
00:11:53 So Matt and Jocelyn, you've now been doing the podcast together with the family life movement for a little while now.
00:11:59 Uh, you know, Matt, you've had a wrestling with fatherhood, also a podcast. What are some tips that you would share with folks that are interested in using podcasting as a means of developing their influence?
00:12:12 I have two thoughts initially. Um, first, um, I got this advice probably about a year ago,
00:12:19 that if you are wanting to start a business, you need to be publishing. Um, and you need to be publishing on a consistent basis.
00:12:26 And, um, we have been doing this podcast thing for about four months now and I feel like it has been all the difference in,
00:12:36 I mean, I'm not saying that we have, we have not technically even made any money yet, but it has given us a,
00:12:44 already, our platform has grown just because of publishing. Um, other tips, I'm going to put a plug in for the PR,
00:12:52 the coach that we use for our podcasting, getting it off. Um, Jamie Atkinson. Um, he has the podcast profit lab.
00:13:00 Um, and I can give you any links for that if you need it. Um, his course was phenomenal.
00:13:07 He really took you step by step through and we had a podcast launched in 30 days. It was amazing.
00:13:11 28 days I guess. Um, it's, it was amazing. Um, and I really did not think it's going to be possible.
00:13:19 Um, but again, Matt did a lot of that while I was at work, so he did a lot of that.
00:13:24 But um, yeah, it, it, that, that um, Jimmy co course was amazing for that.
00:13:33 Yeah, I would say one of the biggest things, uh, my biggest downfall when I did wrestling with fatherhood,
00:13:39 uh, was consistency. So it's really easy to say, Hey, I wonder, you know, I want to deliver value to people and say,
00:13:46 okay, I'm want to release on Monday and Friday. But what happens when those, you know, there's interviews,
00:13:52 you know, you're not in the mood to do some of those interviews or you know, you don't feel like recording on that day or you've got sick kids or something like that.
00:14:00 When you're not consistent, people don't, um, as a listener, somebody's not consistent. I notice as a listener,
00:14:13 um, and so yeah, I would definitely say like consistency is one of the biggest things I would say.
00:14:19 The other thing I would say is map out your content. So if you're wanting to drop content, if you're wanting to do solo episodes,
00:14:27 figure out exactly what line or what topic and different things like that that you want to go through. That way you're not the day of going,
00:14:34 Oh man, you know, what can I do a podcast about? Instead you're like, Oh, okay.
00:14:39 I want you, I'm going to do one on marriage or I'm going to do one. You know,
00:14:42 especially if you're doing a solo episode or a, you're doing a, an episode with your spouse. Having that direction helps to narrow down the stress,
00:14:53 especially when you're living in busy lives. So if you've ever struggled with growing your influence as a business owner while still balancing time with your family,
00:15:06 this may help Matt or Jocelyn. Would you share either a principal or a mindset or a resource beyond the family life movement podcast,
00:15:17 which obviously is a great resource. Other than that, what are some other resources that you would share with folks who are focused on doing this?
00:15:27 So, something that I've noticed as a mom, um, in trying to balance all the things, um,
00:15:37 if I am distracted in any way, shape or form, I get mad the kids get crankier. Um,
00:15:45 so really my biggest tip would be to make sure that when you were, when you were focusing on something,
00:15:54 make sure that's the only thing you're focusing on. If I am supposed to be listening to my kids,
00:15:59 read a book, um, or whatever, I need to be focusing on that, not trying to do something on Facebook at the same time.
00:16:06 Um, if I am supposed to be working on balancing the check book, I need to be focusing on that,
00:16:14 not trying to listen to the kids reading a book or whatever. Um, and I, and, and that is,
00:16:22 that is true. Like I caught myself, um, if I am really getting agitated with the kids,
00:16:28 um, it's probably because I'm trying to do too many things at once. Sometimes we have to be,
00:16:32 sometimes we have to be cooking dinner while we're doing something else or whatever. Um, I've also noticed that,
00:16:40 um, with my kids, and this might be different for other people's kids, but for my kids,
00:16:45 I've noticed that if I spend, you know, give them really dedicated 20 minutes, you know, sometimes they'll give me a few minutes to get something that I need to get done.
00:16:54 Um, but I need to give them their time ahead of time, especially since I'm still working and they don't see me all day,
00:16:59 every day. I find that that, so this morning I, we're recording this in the afternoon and I spent the entire morning with the kids very undivided to as close to an invited as I could.
00:17:11 Um, and with the exception of the baby, the older girls are fine with that right now. Normally they would be all a crawling all over me.
00:17:19 Um, if I hadn't done that. So I think that was really critical. Yeah. The baby doesn't count.
00:17:23 Baby babies, babies, babies want your time no matter what. That does change eventually, but it takes a while.
00:17:31 Yeah. Yeah. I would also say, you know, for me like I've got add, I've got,
00:17:37 you know, the, the learning disabilities, I've got tests that tell me I've got add like crazy.
00:17:43 Um, but the one thing that's really helped me as a, as a stay at home dad is,
00:17:48 you know, homeschooling these businesses up and going and stuff like that is making a list. What I do is I write a list and I write a list of three specific things that I want to get done for the day.
00:18:03 Now, because I'm a stay at home dad, I usually do. I usually have five or something like that,
00:18:07 but I have a line on that list. I need to get these three things done today. Here's how much time those three things should take me.
00:18:16 I have a course that I want to be watching me that should take me an hour. I need to spend,
00:18:22 you know, a half an hour explaining homeschooling stuff to our girls. I need to spend, you know,
00:18:28 I'll spend a half an hour working out. Now, once I'm done with those three things, there's specific things.
00:18:35 I draw a line through those items. There's something psychological that happens when you actually cross something off of the list that said,
00:18:42 just erasing it because you see that you've accomplished something. It's building up momentum. Now, once you get those three things done,
00:18:50 I would encourage you to go ahead and write three more things. The other thing that I would say is that you have to be okay and allow time for chaos when you have it.
00:19:01 You know, especially when you have young kids, when you have a young daughter, when you have,
00:19:04 you know, we have, uh, three girls, 75 and 21 and a half months. You have to allow time for thanks to mess up.
00:19:13 So when you don't get all three things done on your list, that's not a slam against your character or anything like that.
00:19:21 But that night, take some time, say, okay, what is it that I, what did I get done?
00:19:26 Awesome job. What did I not get done and why did I not get it done? Maybe you need to go down to two or even just one thing on your list that Jocelyn working 10 hour days,
00:19:37 she does not have a three or a five item list when she gets home. Her list is usually East supper.
00:19:43 I spend a half an hour to an hour with the girls and then it's usually about bedtime and then she spends a couple hours with me.
00:19:50 So I would encourage you to figure out what works for you. If all you've got 30 minutes to figure out what is the best way to use that.
00:20:00 30 minutes is not going to be to write a three or five thing list. Instead of write one thing down that you can realistically do 15 to 30 minutes and then accomplish that.
00:20:13 And as you get through those one or two items, then you can get to the point where you add an extra item to it and then you can do and be more productive.
00:20:23 And that, you know, that's, it's something I've been working through myself and, and stuff like that.
00:20:28 But he'll figure out what works for you and then execute the plan. When he was saying that, that actually reminded me of like when I was,
00:20:39 um, when our oldest was a newborn and I was home with, you know, I literally had one task that I wanted to accomplish for the entire day and some days that was just getting her to fall asleep in her crib.
00:20:55 And then other days it was to get dishes done. Um, you know, and, and a load of laundry exactly like I,
00:21:04 and, and I think that was it that kept me sane and it was a weird time for us cause I was actually job searching.
00:21:10 I had, I had lost my job is a long story. Um, and so I was job searching too.
00:21:15 So filling out one application, um, you know, it was, was on that list, that list.
00:21:21 And if I had tried to do any more than that, I think I would have been even more insane.
00:21:26 So yeah, knowing yourself, knowing that the life situation that you're in is really critical in knowing how much time those items take.
00:21:35 So if you've got 10 minutes, that's probably not a good time to bring up the budget with your spouse and want to sit down and have a family meeting.
00:21:45 You probably want a couple more minutes for that. Or starting at 10 o'clock at night when I'm trying to get up.
00:21:50 Exactly. So, you know, instead if you've got 10 minutes and you know, Hey, you know what,
00:21:55 there's five minutes worth of dishes and then go do the dishes. Small things, small things. Because as adults,
00:22:05 none of this stuff is real, real small. But like figuring out, know yourself, know what it takes you to get things done,
00:22:13 how long it takes you to get and moms, it's not going to get all done in one sitting.
00:22:19 That's something that I really had to struggle with. It's okay to break the tasks up and it's taking,
00:22:26 you have a sink full of dishes. It's not going to take you, you know, an hour it's going to possibly more,
00:22:34 um, the dishwasher's broke it or whatever. So sometimes what should be a 10 minute task isn't all day tasks,
00:22:41 but it's not because of it. It's not because of the task. It is not because you're a failure,
00:22:46 it's because you've got other stuff. Again, if you have an infant at home getting a load of dishes done as an all day job,
00:22:54 yeah. Yes, absolutely. It just, yes, you can find out more about the family life movement over@familylifemovementdotcomandyoucanfindthatcommunityoveronfacebookatfacebook.com slash groups family life movement.
00:23:11 You can find all of the social media links and all of that stuff over on the website as well as that great free download,
00:23:17 so thanks for much so much for coming on the show today. We're having a lot of fun. Thanks for having us.
00:23:23 It's great fun. Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener,
00:23:39 we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling.
00:23:49 If you enjoy this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate,
00:24:01 all one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed.
00:24:16 Until next time. Invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

In today's episode, I ask Matt & Jocelyn about:

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Their advice to couples that work together and want to remain together despite that....
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