Inspired Stewardship

Helping you live out your calling by teaching you to use your time, talent, and treasures for God's Glory.

Home Archives for Inspired Stewardship Podcast Interview

Episode 816: Invest in Yourself – Interview with Stacy Henry – Part 1

By Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 1 of the Interview with Stacy Henry, author of Get Rooted: Growing People and Companies Through Change...

This is Part 1 of the interview I had with speaker, coach, and author Stacy Henry.  

In today’s interview with Stacy Henry, I ask Stacy about her book Get Rooted and how we can GROW through change.  I also ask her to share how these ideas can help you manage and survive change.  Stacy also shares with you the eight values that are key to managing change well.

Join in on the Chat below.

Download New Tab

Episode 816 Invest in Yourself - Interview with Stacy Henry – Part 1
[00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 816 of the inspired stewardship podcast. I'm Stacy Henry owner and coach at center branch, where we grow great leaders. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your colleagues.
[00:00:27] Having the ability to deal well with change is key. And one way to be inspired to do this is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader,
[00:00:39]first and foremost, you have to figure out your group, what are those value? And then are those value. Driving the decisions, the actions, the words, the behaviors that you're exhibiting and in that relates to how other people are experiencing you. A really easy way to [00:01:00] figure out your center branch, to ask other people.
[00:01:03] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you.
[00:01:27] Can impact the world
[00:01:29]interview with Stacy Henry. I asked Stacy about her book get rooted and how we can all grow through change. Also ask her to share how these ideas can help you manage and weather change. And Stacy also shares with you the eight values that are the key to really managing change. One reason I like to bring you great interviews.
[00:01:52] Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn [00:02:00] from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
[00:02:11] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast.
[00:02:39] Stacy Henry is the owner and founder of center branch, a people centered leadership business dedicated to helping both companies and individuals perform to their highest potential with services that include keynote speaking and workshop, facilitation, women's development and leadership and executive coaching center branch enables people to be their best so [00:03:00] that they and the companies they work for may flourish.
[00:03:02] Stacy brings 25 years of experience to center branch from a variety of global industries as an executive coach and HR business partner for C suite leaders in 2020, Stacy worked directly with the chief financial officer, chief communications officer and the head of strategic development at Collins aerospace.
[00:03:21] When it merged with Raytheon technologies prior to founding center branch, she was the head HR partner for the central functions at Collins aerospace, a Raytheon technologies company. She's also the author of get rooted, helping you identify values so you can understand your roots and using that foundation deal better with change.
[00:03:42]Welcome to the show, Stacy. Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. So we're talking today about this book get rooted, you've had quite a history, we just talked about it in the intro, but one of this ideas that I loved and are [00:04:00] resonated with in the book that you touch on real early, is this idea that you can either go through change.
[00:04:06] Or you can grow through change, which, first off sounds like a clever tagline, but again, getting into the book, I know you mean it a little bit different than that. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between those and how our mindset can shift between that? Absolutely. I'll start by saying that.
[00:04:27] Throughout the course of my personal journey whether it was working in small companies, large companies, it didn't matter. There was change happening everywhere. I looked and every time I took a new role or went to a new company, I thought, okay, they won't experience that much change. And boy was I wrong?
[00:04:48] So I started to realize, okay Change is a thing. It is always going to be a thing. And then as I started coaching people, one of [00:05:00] the aspects that we coached about all the time, despite the background of the individual was change. And I heard saying and I admittedly said things like, I didn't have a choice in this change or.
[00:05:18] They the proverbial air quote, they are making the decisions about the change or the change is difficult and I could go on and on and I paused and I realized change is inevitable. Sometimes we don't get the choice in the change. Sometimes we're not choosing it. And if we take this past year, we didn't choose that change.
[00:05:46] What we do have a choice in is how we show up and how we both respond and react to that change. And that's a little bit about what I'm talking about in the [00:06:00] question. Do you go through change or do you grow through change and it really starts with your first choice point and that choice point is, do I.
[00:06:10] Do I hold on to the past and resist the change. It doesn't matter if I resist it and hold onto the past, it's still going to go through it. It's going to happen. Or do I embrace the change? And do I grow through that? And by no stretch of the imagination, do I think that embracing change and growing is the easier choice?
[00:06:31] It's actually the much more difficult choice because we don't know necessarily what. That means sometimes embracing the change feels like you're grabbing a hold of a cactus, but you're going to grow through the experience of seeing what's on the other side versus getting stuck and just forcibly going through the change.
[00:06:55] Yeah, one of my pet phrases and when I'm working with clients, I call them out on this [00:07:00] is hearing clients say I had to. And my answer to that always is no you chose to. And because even if it's an evitable, even if it's something that happened from outside, there's still, you have that power of choice by saying I had to you're abdicating choice.
[00:07:17] You're saying I have no power in this relationship. You're giving up your power. When in reality you have. Cause you, like you said, you could still choose how you react to it. Absolutely agree. Couldn't agree more on that. It's really hard. Like COVID, we'll use that as the example and nobody wants this to happen and nobody enjoys it.
[00:07:37] And we all get tired of the endless zoom meetings and whatnot. It's still yeah. But you can choose to react in a positive way or negative way. In either way. And that has a lot more to do with what happens to you. So as part of that, you talk in the book about, these get rooted is the title and about these values that we're rooted in and how that is part [00:08:00] of the key to weathering.
[00:08:01] Change. So how is it that as individuals we can identify and develop those strong values so that we can indeed grow through change and manage change? So it's a great question. And I'll pause and I'll just give a little bit of a backstory of why. I equate trees and roots to leadership and people.
[00:08:27] And when I think about people and I think about leaders, whether you're a leader of self, where, or a leader of others, we have a lot in common with a tree. So we all show up, right? We all have an outward exterior, same thing with a tree. You could have a ficus, you could have a Palm tree. You could have, I'm looking at the mountains at, all of the giant trees here, they all have the same thing in common, and that is that they have a center branch and they have a root system.
[00:08:58] And that root [00:09:00] system in a tree is really what nourishes that center branch. And I know that when I think about leaders, what we're rooted in nourishing, how we're showing up. And so when you ask the question about. How we're weathering change based on what we're rooted in. I really do think of it like the tree, the ground, that, that tree is rooted in.
[00:09:26] If it's good ground good soil, and the roots are deep, it's going to withstand all of the weather that comes along. And the same thing is true of people when we're able to look inside and really identify. What are we rooted in? What are our core values? Then we're able to really decide is this working for me?
[00:09:57] And from there, [00:10:00] that's going to help us really manage change. And it sounds easy when I say it out loud, people are probably like, Oh, that sounds easy. It's not, it really takes a ton of work looking on the inside. To get crystal clear on what are my roots or what are my strong values that I have today? Do I need to shift anything?
[00:10:25] Yeah. And again, this week we're focusing on kind of that develop yourself or invest in yourself mindset. And I think that's one of the things that I appreciated about the book is you do point out that it is, there is a degree to this that is it's dependent upon self development. It doesn't come from outside.
[00:10:41] You have to work on yourself first a hundred percent. And it's way easier to think about. Others and organizations and everything else than it is to start with self. And I actually start the book by saying, you have a choice to make, we talked about that. And then [00:11:00] we have to look inside and really take stock of what's driving us.
[00:11:06] What's giving us, our. Our decision-making what's really, giving us the thoughts that are being projected outward and investing in ourselves and learning to grow internally is the hardest and the most important step. So let's dive in a little bit. You talk about eight specific values in the book that you identify as a key and you actually highlight them in pairing with the positive side of the corn and the negative side of the coin kind of illustration, but let's dive into those eight values that you talk about and you spend a lot of time on, what are they tell us a little bit about, on what should people take from that?
[00:11:45] Absolutely. So the eight values, when I call them eight roots are in there they're core values and they're universal. And the reason that I selected these eight values it's because they were personally [00:12:00] for me. The ones that made the most impact in kind of the work that I was doing on myself and with others.
[00:12:06] But it's also what I'm finding with my clientele, whether it's individuals or organizations, these are the most common. And to your point I look at a dichotomy and we'll start with the very first one, which is love. And I look at love versus conflict. And there I paused because. I don't want to push back to be really honest for using the word love or for putting it in a dichotomy with conflict, both really, both really for using the word love in the sense of Stacy.
[00:12:44] People in business will read this and I'm sure they will. And it's the most important. It's why it's number one love and the absence of love and the absence of being rooted in love always will lead to [00:13:00] conflict. And in my opinion, it's really strengthening one or the other. And I'll give you an example.
[00:13:09] I thought, okay. That I had always been rooted in love. And I went to an organization that I was quite excited about. And out of the blue, there was a change. I didn't choose the change. And in retrospect, I didn't respond appropriately, but I had a change in my direct leader and this person came in and he and I were.
[00:13:35] Like oil and water. And while I tried very hard to look past that and be the best employer that I possibly could, there were triggers that created conflict. And I don't know if it was purposeful conflict, but it turned out to be later on that conflict that we experienced. Towards each [00:14:00] other actually bled over into the rest of the organization and our team then started having all of this conflict and it wasn't until hell.
[00:14:09] I really took a step back and took stock of what I was rooted in and said, Oh my gosh, I'm contributing. And I thought I was just simply responding. And I actually, because I wasn't responding in love the benevolent true pair of love. I was contributing to conflict and it was a moment for me that was like a light bulb of, Oh no, I'm a part of this.
[00:14:34] And as a part of it, I couldn't blame anyone else. After that point, I had to do my part to get rooted in love versus conflict, and that can, we can apply that to any part of life. It doesn't have to just be in a work environment when you think about our personal relationships. And we think about.
[00:14:53] What we're invested in, are we invested in love or conflict? And it's that [00:15:00] servant mindset too. It's are you looking for us to serve or are you looking to be served? And it is that it is exactly that it's honestly, if we're honest, there's times that we all are looking to be served, not served first that's inherit in the human condition. We do that at times. 100% agree. And that's actually another route in the book. And so when we talk about the eight values, another one is service versus selfishness.
[00:15:27] And it stems from that love group. Am I looking to be of service to those that are around me? Am I really mindfully and like being authentic in choosing. To be of service or. Am I not. And when I'm not, it's usually people don't wake up and say, I think today I'm going to be selfish. That's not what happened.
[00:15:55] What happened?
[00:15:56]again, I used to have a car. I used to lead a team of [00:16:00] leaders. The senior leader. And one of the litanies I used to say is, believe it or not, people usually don't show up to work on Monday thinking, boy, I really hope I stink at my job this week. It's just, that's not the mindset that people it's the same thing.
[00:16:12] Most of us really don't go, Oh, I really want to be selfish today. No, if we don't and it shows up in ways, that's split if you will. And so if you think about a day, any given day, if you're back to back meetings or you're getting up and you're getting your kids ready for school, whether zoom or in person, and you're going about your day.
[00:16:35] You might only have a 30 minute or a 15 minute window and selfishly, we want to protect that time. But by intentionally doing that over and over again, you're strengthening that root of selfishness versus truly serving other people. And I want to point out that. It's important to be selfish with.
[00:16:57] Self-care it's important sometimes to [00:17:00] take the pause, but when that becomes your norm and you're not actively in service, that's going to be the route that shows up for you. And I would even argue that selfishness and self care. Aren't the same thing either, because self care also still comes out of a mindset of service in that if I don't take care of myself, I'm not taking care of anybody else, cause if I'm tired of it, yeah. Stressed out and angry. Then I'm going to bite my, my wife's head or my son's head off when, in reality I shouldn't have, because I'm exhausted because I'm not taking care of myself. Yeah. Absolutely. It's the energy meter or, are we putting in exactly what we're going out?
[00:17:36] And I know you've recently talked about, the energy and that really struck me because it's exactly what we're talking about here, so completely agree. So there are a few others what's. Yeah. Keep going. Versus. Control. This is a biggie. I'm a reformed control freak, and I say that tongue in cheek I used to be a micromanager and I thought I was [00:18:00] doing it in service.
[00:18:01] I really thought I was doing a good thing. And what happened was I just told my team, I didn't trust them by my actions of me doing their work all over again, which was bananas. And I actually had a really. Brave employee tell me that during a performance review and it changed my, it literally changed my world.
[00:18:22] So I applaud her for that. We look at integrity versus dishonesty. And where are you rooted there again, same thing with selfishness people usually don't get up and say, I'm going to be dishonest today. When I talk about integrity, it's doing the right thing. No matter what. And really getting crystal clear on yourself on where's your line in the sand and what is it that's going to happen for you not to step over that line over time, that line washes away and we re readjust, or we draw the [00:19:00] line and it's never in that same space.
[00:19:02] So for this it's really about what have I maybe looked past. Or where is my compass today versus where it was before and taking that internal look to say, am I in integrity, a hundred percent of the time. We talk about joy versus complacency and the importance of why having a joyful mindset is not just things and in black and the lack of joy often it's complacency, and we just stopped.
[00:19:33] Self-monitoring. And then let's go back to that one for a minute. Cause. And again, I have the benefit of having looked at the book and read the book already, but for the listener, joy and complacency, I don't think it's two things that, you know, joy and, unhappiness people would think of joy and, just satisfaction maybe or frustration or, but joy and complacency.
[00:19:55] Can you unpack a little bit more? Why did you put complacency is the [00:20:00] dichotomy for joy? Absolutely. I think complacency has become unfortunately, a new norm in a new value and complacency. When I think about it, I really think about it in the sense of, you're just going through the day.
[00:20:15] You may get up, you may do your thing, whether you're at home or you're going to work, but there's something missing. There's a lack of. Insert word there, there's a lack of something and complacency. You might very well be doing a good job and zero joy in your life. And it's up to us as individuals to determine what gives us joy.
[00:20:46] It's not up to anybody else. And we look to. Toot or alcohol or stuff where the next big job or whatever it is to give us joy. And [00:21:00] we might feel excited, but we don't feel true joy because that feeling goes away. And then he sat back into complacency. So is that temporary feeling of, and I would, again I equate, there's a difference between joy and happiness in that happiness is a temporary state.
[00:21:15] We visit it. Joy is a state of mind. We can live there. It's because it is a recognize or contentment might be another even word too, to satisfactory. Those sorts of analogies for joy there as well, okay. Thank you. That helps because I know when I first read that when I went okay, that's not the two I would have put together.
[00:21:34] Let me read that. Keep going. What else? One that's especially important to me is spirituality versus nothingness. And I define spirituality as my relationship with Jesus and others. They might not, they might define spirituality completely differently, but it's really this idea. Yeah.
[00:21:56]That there's something more and bigger. [00:22:00] Really driving the work that we're doing, both in ourselves and with others. And a lack of that is really, it feels like nothing. And I had somebody described to me once, like he felt this complete void. And at first, when I started talking with him in our coaching sessions, I thought he was referring to a lack of joy and what he was referring to was really.
[00:22:28] A void of nothingness, which was a lack of spirituality. He had no belief system beyond just what he could control and what he could do. And it really, it was quite sad for me. And it made me realize, Oh my goodness, this is a key route. And I bet there so many other people that have this feeling of nothingness.
[00:22:53] When that can be replaced with the spirituality route. So let's say love, service, [00:23:00] trust, integrity, joy spirituality. Is that it? One more so there's progress versus perfection. And I'm also a recovering perfectionist. I say that in air quotes, because it's have you perfectly given up, have you perfectly given up your lack of being a control freak?
[00:23:22] So anyway, sorry. Yeah, I'm getting there the way. My name is Scott. I'm also a recovering control, freak and perfectionist. So I can deal with that. Everyone say hi, Scott.
[00:23:38]Hi, Scott, I'm Stacy,
[00:23:41]a 12 step program for recovering perfectionist. That would be an interesting group, but anyway so progress versus perfectionist or perfection, I had a mentor. Tell me good is good. And I really, I let that sink in. When I say that, now I say that to other people and I say it to myself, stopped [00:24:00] often.
[00:24:00] Good. Is good. And we often think that good has this negative connotation because it's not perfect where it couldn't be better. And in the true sense of the actual definition, it's good. And that's really what progress is. It's saying, okay, it doesn't have to be everything that I think it should or could be because by the way, that's subjective.
[00:24:27] And it's a unicorn and no one really knows what perfection looks like, and we all know what good looks like. So if we strive for good we're making progress well, and that's like Jim Collins. Good to great. Good. Is the enemy right? Yeah. Great. Because, but we also notice, he doesn't say good to perfect.
[00:24:50] Yeah. You can improve, but you're not going to reach. Perfect. Yeah. I was raised Methodist, John Wesley's phrases on to perfection, but then he goes on to say, it's a journey into which you never [00:25:00] reached the destination. It's fine to strive, but you're never going to get there.
[00:25:02] So accept that too. I think we missed one relationship. Versus disengagement. I get right over that one. I apologize. So relationship versus disengagement it comes on the heels of love versus conflict and relationship is really about developing that true sense of knowing those people around you.
[00:25:29] And there's, it's so often that. Because of the busy-ness and because of the social media barriers that we have, that we feel like we have relationships, but we don't because we don't truly know what's going on with somebody, or we might not understand what's happening in their world. And the other side of that root is disengagement and it's really easy to get rooted in disengagement when we're not having authentic.
[00:26:00] [00:25:59] Real conversation and getting curious about people and getting insight into. What's going on with them. So these important, these eight values are the root system, so if, again, going back to your tree analogy, those are the support. But then you also talk about the center branch.
[00:26:19] You referenced that earlier, the the trunk and the core of the tree that goes up from that. And you talk also in the book about that center branch being the. The part that lies. I think you put it as that lies at the heart of our decisions. Which I liked that phrase. Can you talk a little bit more?
[00:26:34] So what's the center branch, how can we identify it? What, how do we make that part? Our own the center branch is it's really the way that I describe it. It's how people are experiencing you. And so it's the outward expression. Of our root system and our center branch, how people are outwardly experiencing us, [00:27:00] either in thought in action in, word, whatever it may be.
[00:27:05] All of that is derived from what we're rooted in. And sometimes there's a disconnect. So somebody may say my center branch, what I, what people are experiencing me as his love. And they're showing up potentially argumentative or in conflict, or looking through a lens of skepticism and they don't realize that they're skew.
[00:27:33] So to figure out your center branch, first and foremost, you have to figure out your roots, what are those values? And then are those values. Driving the decisions, the actions, the words, the behaviors that you're exhibiting and in that relates to how other people are experiencing you a really easy way to figure [00:28:00] out your center branch.
[00:28:01] And it's not necessarily the most fun way, but an easy way is to ask other people and to ask other people, how do you experience me and be ready for that answer and give them permission to be honest. Because a lot of times what we think and what's showing up and how people are experiencing us is completely different.
[00:28:21] And it's not intentional by any stretch of the imagination. Once you. Figure that part out and you can label your center branch. You can work to make sure that you're being authentic to that. So is that center branch always going to be one of the eight values that you talked about or is it more, how what would it look like for somebody maybe?
[00:28:41] I don't know if you would feel comfortable sharing your own, but uh, what would it look like for somebody. Sure and it, no, it doesn't have to be one of the, one of the eight routes. It could be the strongest of the eight roots or it could be something that contributes to that.
[00:28:54] And so my center branch really is my faith in [00:29:00] Jesus and my relationship in Jesus. And I want people to experience me, not necessarily, I'm not going out and saying, here is my center branch. It is Jesus. But the love, the trust, the integrity, the service, all of that contribute to how I'm showing up in the world and how people are experiencing me.
[00:29:24] So if I, if I say that my, my central branches, Jesus, and I'm showing up, tired and being spun out from. PR, perfection and trying to control everything that's going on in, in my life. That's a disconnect. So that's one example. I know another person who very clearly says that her center branch is.
[00:29:52] Growing other people. And so that's how people experienced her in every single situation and she's rooted in and [00:30:00] candor and part of growing other people is really giving some candid advice lovingly and it really, it matches up well. Yeah. So it's that, that, again, it's part of to integrity because if.
[00:30:13] I again it, and I think we've all experienced this, that somebody that says that there are certain thing, fill in the blank with your own message. And then every time you experienced some, it's that's not really how they act, and evidence, again, it's that you can tell me what you believe all day long, but if I don't see it in your actions, Then it feels inauthentic.
[00:30:37] It feels out of alignment. And we, we spot that a mile away. As human beings, a hundred percent, one of the ways that I explain center branch to people what is your center branch. Is I give them this idea of a scale and I call it the say, do ratio. And the center branch is your say, [00:31:00] do ratio, which should always be at 50 50.
[00:31:03] So exactly what you're saying. Are you doing what you're saying? Or are you saying what you're doing and when that's in alignment, usually you're aligned on your center branch as well. And again, like you said earlier, a lot of, we also have to recognize that other people's perceptions of that is an important measure of that, because I know there's points in my life where I've thought I was doing and saying everything.
[00:31:30] And then when I checked in with people discovered, no, that's not actually how others perceived it. And I needed to adjust my behavior. Yes, you're absolutely right. And it goes back to the beginning of our conversation about, when you decide to get rooted in the right routes, you have to be open-minded because as you're looking inside, that's only one lens.
[00:31:51] That's the first lens, it's the starting lens, but there's the other lens of how are people experiencing me and what's their perception. And so a [00:32:00] huge part of this is making sure that you're getting that insight. So that you can measure up against that as well. You can follow Stacy over on LinkedIn as Stacy, Henry Oh one, or you can find out more about her on her website@centrebranch.com.
[00:32:21] Of course I'll have links to all of that over in the show notes as well. Stacy, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener? I just want to say, thank you so much to the listeners. And, I trust that you've taken a nugget or two through this, and I implore you to get really clear on your roots and then multiply that forward.
[00:32:41]thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode [00:33:00] please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:33:08] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

Scroll back to top


In today's episode, I ask Stacy about:

  • Her book Get Rooted and how we can GROW through change...  
  • How these ideas can help you manage and survive change...
  • The eight values that are key to managing change well...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

First is to figure out your root.  What are those values?  And are those values driving the decisions, the actions, the words, the behaviors that you are exhibiting?  A really easy way is to ask other people. - Stacy Henry

Click to Tweet

You can connect with Stacy using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

Episode 811: Impact the World – Interview with Brian Steele – Part 4

By Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 4 of the Interview with Brian Steele, author of The Kingdom Field Guide...

This is Part 4 of the interview I had with pastor, speaker, and author Brian Steele.  

In today’s interview with Brian Steele, I ask Brian to share how to move past the trap of inaction into action.  I also ask Brian to talk with you about measuring your impact with a Kingdom mindset.  Brian also shares with you what he hopes for his impact to become.

Join in on the Chat below.

Download New Tab

Episode 811 Impact the World - Interview with Brian Steele – Part 4
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 811 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:07] Brian Steele: [00:00:07] I'm Brian Steele, author of the kingdom field guide, and I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world. How by using your time, your talent and your treasure to live out your calling.
[00:00:24] Discovering how to seek first God's kingdom is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader.
[00:00:42] Scott Maderer: [00:00:42] I
[00:00:42] Brian Steele: [00:00:42] want you to see your teeth first and then mirror. And in reality, those teeth actually don't belong to you. They are, they belong to Jesus. There actually is, but they've been entrusted to you. So when you're taking care of your mouth and your teeth, when you're brushing your [00:01:00] teeth, I want you to think about how that is a stewardship.
[00:01:05] Scott Maderer: [00:01:05] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast, who will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:38] Today's interview with Brian Steele. I asked Brian to share how to move past the trap of inaction and move into action. I also asked Brian to talk with you about measuring your impact with the kingdom mindset and Brian shares with you, what he hopes for his impact to become. One reason I like to bring you great interviews.
[00:01:59] Like the one you're going [00:02:00] to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
[00:02:18] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast.
[00:02:45] Brian C steel is a pastor speaker and Arthur. His work has focused on discipleship, leadership development, and small groups. After spending eight years studying in Jesus's parable of the hidden treasure, he loves helping people to find God's [00:03:00] kingdom, right beneath their feet. His teaching venues have ranged from thousands of people in mega church sermons to conferences, retreats, workshops, and one-on-one coaching.
[00:03:09] He is also a professional geologist. And is in well partial recovery from a birdwatching addiction. He delights in exploring the Alpine wilderness of the Pacific crest trail with his wife, Katie and his dog banner.
[00:03:28] Welcome to the show, Brian,
[00:03:30] Brian Steele: [00:03:30] thank you, Scott. Looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:37] Scott Maderer: [00:03:37] So this week as we talk a little bit about impacting the world, We've talked earlier in a couple of other episodes a few weeks ago about this trap of inaction and how one of the things that can really hold us back from finding the kingdom and really believing that it's really real is the trap of inaction.
[00:03:59] What are [00:04:00] some practical ways that we can actually put into our daily life? Not just on Sunday to begin to, use this kingdom. Mindset to impact the
[00:04:12] Brian Steele: [00:04:12] world. Yeah I think part of that is embodying our faith and finding ways of connecting our faith to the actions in the world. Scott, you mentioned a couple episodes ago, the way that you use your breathing, I want to offer another suggestion.
[00:04:29] I'm going to ask people as an application when they brush their teeth. I want you to look at your teeth first in the mirror. And in reality, those teeth actually don't belong to you. They are, they belong to Jesus. There actually is, but they've been entrusted to you. So when you're taking care of your mouth and your teeth, when you're brushing your teeth, I want you to think about how that is a stewardship that you are [00:05:00] are interested with.
[00:05:02] And went every single time you brush your teeth, tell yourself that you are acting on behalf of the King and that these teeth belong to him. And then, so you, and actually do that for a week or a couple of weeks. And again, it's having to connect the faith that's in your mind and in your heart with the actions that are in your body and making those bridges between what you believe in what you do in the world.
[00:05:30] And then as you go through your day, it's finding other ways to embody your faith. So what might be. Every time you hit send on an email, have have some sort of reminder that you are sending this email in the name of King Jesus. So read that email through that lens and say, is this honoring, is this loving?
[00:05:59] Is this a good [00:06:00] stewardship? Is this truthful? Is this email because I'm an ambassador of Christ. The King is this email something that will reflect well on the name of my King and then hit send. So you're connecting that action of hitting the send button with the reality that you are an ambassador of Christ.
[00:06:26] Or you could do that then in with every meeting that you have that before you go into that meeting and let's say, let, actually let's narrow it down even further. Scott let's use conflict, each conflict that you enter into, you're going to have a hard conversation or it's going to be tough before you have that conversation.
[00:06:49] Say something like. A quick prayer of Jesus. I am your hands and your feet in this conversation. Would you help me [00:07:00] speak the truth and love in the name so that in your name so that your kingdom comes just a little bit more as I engage in this conflict. And so what you're doing is you are claiming areas of your life and your physical actions.
[00:07:19] For the rule of the King. Jesus. Amen. And you have to do that in every areas of your life. And the more that you do that, the more it's going to become reflective and instinctual. I would actually, even, one of the practices I do, this is a little bit weird, but I'll just say it anyways, before I get up in the morning and before my feet hit the ground, actually wiggle my toes and to say something like Jesus today, I want your kingdom come a little bit more in my life.
[00:07:51] Every step that I take with these feet, would it be a step. That's in alignment with your will. So [00:08:00] your kingdom comes as I walk through my day, I'm connecting my body to my faith so that my life is integrated. It's not my faith. Isn't just something that occupies the little teeny area of my brain and my heart, but is actually fully being embodied in everything that I do, Scott.
[00:08:21] And that's how we get beyond the trap of inaction.
[00:08:25] Scott Maderer: [00:08:25] So flipping that around though. I think a lot of times when we're looking at impact, when I talk to people about impacting the world and what does that look like for you? I think it's really easy to start trying to measure it in practical ways and worldly ways, whatever phrasing you want to use it.
[00:08:44] So how can we measure our impact in a kingdom centered way instead of a worldly way?
[00:08:51] Brian Steele: [00:08:51] Wow. That is a great, that's such a great question, Scott. It might be the question. [00:09:00] And when Jesus says in Matthew, he says, again, it's Matthew six 33 seek first the kingdom God's kingdom and his righteousness.
[00:09:14] What he's meaning is make it your greatest desire. That the world is changed and when it gets changed, his kingdom comes just a little bit more. And I think on a very practical level, what that means is his conduct your life in a way that is loving, that carries God's love. So God's kingdom is real.
[00:09:42] And it's a really real kingdom and real kingdoms have real laws. The law of God's kingdom, Scott is love that is the law of the kingdom. And so if we're going to be making an impact in the world [00:10:00] for the sake of the kingdom, it will be in alignment with that love. The law of love. So James and James too, I think it's James two eight.
[00:10:08] He says the Royal law of love is this to love your neighbor as yourself. When Jesus was asked to sum up all of the law of the prophets, he says, all the law on profits is summed up by this loves the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. That is the law of the kingdom of love.
[00:10:27] So if the world is going to be impacted in the name, And for the sake of Christ the King, then we will be conducting ourselves in love, which means it's that set of actions that brings goodness to others and humility, considering them before yourself, in sacrifice in seeking their good before your own in living the way that [00:11:00] Jesus lived.
[00:11:01] In serving the way that he served and being generous with your resources and being generous with your time in directing your talents towards the goodness of others and not just building up your own little kingdom. And I think the world is impacted when we live in alignment with the law of God's kingdom, which is love.
[00:11:33] Scott Maderer: [00:11:33] so now, Brian, we're going to ask one of the easy questions of the last few weeks. I say that because everyone always says, this is not the easy question. If you could look, if you could go into the far future, a hundred, 150 years and look back on your life, what impact do you hope that you've had in the world?
[00:11:55]I told you it was the easy one. Yeah, [00:12:00] I would. I would
[00:12:00] Brian Steele: [00:12:00] like to think that I would be known as somebody who was a sower of the seed. If we're going to the parable of the sower and the seed and Matthew 13, Jesus said that the seed is the word of the kingdom and some of the seed falls on Rocky ground.
[00:12:17] And some of them own this thorns and some gets plucked up by the birds, but some of the seed finds good soil. And I would hope that in my life allowed the word of the kingdom to find good soil in people's lives. And as a result, Jesus says in that parable, the seed brings a hundred fold, 60 fold, 30 fold.
[00:12:41] It's like this ridiculous yield, this tiny little seed. And I would love if my life meant that this little teeny seed, this idea that God's kingdom is real. If that took root in people's lives. And then produced flourishing because they [00:13:00] went and sought God's kingdom. First. I would be thrilled if that was my legacy.
[00:13:06]
[00:13:06] Scott Maderer: [00:13:06] So what's coming next for you, as you continue to live out your call and impact the world. You mentioned that this may be the first of a series of books, but what else has come?
[00:13:15] Brian Steele: [00:13:15] Yeah I would I'm having conversations with people about what does it mean to have God's kingdom come say in and through their business or inner through their ministry.
[00:13:26] And those are coaching type conversations. Coming out in in a couple months, I'm going to have a series of videos called five minute field trips. That's going to be just, here's a short video for how to seek God's kingdom first in your life, these practical steps. So I'll be producing a suit set of videos and.
[00:13:49]I am, there's not a lot of conferences and retreats going on right now because of our COVID restrictions, but I love any kind of opportunity to speak about God's kingdom [00:14:00] and in growing leadership and training. And so I'm growing that part of of how I'm serving as well.
[00:14:11] Scott Maderer: [00:14:11] you can find out more about the book over@kingdomfieldguides.com. And you can connect with Brian on LinkedIn, under Brian C steel that's S T E L E. Of course. I'll have links to all of this over in the show notes as well. Brian, anything else you'd like to share with the listener today?
[00:14:33] Brian Steele: [00:14:33] Yeah, I would just say it is the it's the adventure of a lifetime.
[00:14:38] That when you stub your toe on the hidden treasure, it's worth taking a long time to ponder and to understand the value of what you've found. And in this life, there is a life of flourishing as you seek God's kingdom first. And I just strongly recommend in, [00:15:00] in. Getting the kingdom field guide and actually doing the field trips because the temptation is just to read it like a book and set it on a shelf.
[00:15:07]But my hope is that the field guide gets shoved in your backpack and gets muddy and dirty that you, with your friends or your family or small group, you go have these immersive experiences together. Cause that's the best way. And maybe even the only way of learning about God's kingdom and having it.
[00:15:25] Come fully in your life. So that's my strong encouragement to people. Scott.
[00:15:31] Scott Maderer: [00:15:31] Awesome. Thanks so much for being on the show today.
[00:15:34] Brian Steele: [00:15:34] I have loved it. Thank you.
[00:15:42] Scott Maderer: [00:15:42] thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode. [00:16:00] Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:16:09] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

Scroll back to top


In today's episode, I ask Brian about:

  • How to move past the trap of inaction into action...  
  • Measuring your impact with a Kingdom mindset...
  • What he hopes for his impact to become...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.


Click to Tweet

You can connect with Brian using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

Episode 806: Develop Your Influence – Interview with Brian Steele – Part 3

By Leave a Comment

Join us today for Part 3 of the Interview with Brian Steele, author of The Kingdom Field Guide...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with pastor, speaker, and author Brian Steele.  

In today’s interview with Brian Steele author of The Kingdom Field Guide, I ask Brian what his definition of leadership is.  I also ask Brian to share his list of Kingdom Do Nots and Brian also shares how we can use our joy in the Kingdom to share it with others.

Join in on the Chat below.

Download New Tab

Episode 806 Develop Your Influence - Interview with Brian Steele – Part 3
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 806 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:06] Brian Steele: [00:00:06] I'm Brian Steele, author of the kingdom field guide, and I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world. How by using your time, your talent and your treasure to live out your calling.
[00:00:23] Discovering how to seek first God's kingdom is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader.
[00:00:42] the other thing is it's not divorced. God's kingdom, isn't divorced from humanity. And the picture of the guard is there's six days of creation and humanity is created on the last day. And then God gives us a charge. He says that we are to have [00:01:00] dominion over the earth. And that is a, it's a Royal commission.
[00:01:05] Scott Maderer: [00:01:05] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself.
[00:01:25] Invest in others. And develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:38] And today's interview with Brian Steele, the author of the kingdom field guide. I asked Brian to share what his definition of leadership is. Also asked Brian to talk with us about his list of kingdom, do not. And Brian also shares with you how we can use our joy in the kingdom to share it with others.
[00:02:00] [00:02:00] One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power. In learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
[00:02:21] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast.
[00:02:48] Brian C steel is a pastor speaker and Arthur. His work has focused on discipleship, leadership development, and small groups. After spending eight years studying Jesus's parable of [00:03:00] the hidden treasure. He loves helping people to find God's kingdom right beneath their feet. His teaching venues have ranged from thousands of people in mega church sermons to conferences, retreats, workshops, and one-on-one coaching.
[00:03:13] He is also a professional geologist. And is in well partial recovery from a birdwatching addiction. He delights in exploring the Alpine wilderness of the Pacific crest trail with his wife, Katie and his dog banner.
[00:03:31] Welcome to the show, Brian,
[00:03:33] Brian Steele: [00:03:33] thank you, Scott. Looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:38] Scott Maderer: [00:03:38] So Brian, one thing we talked last week, we asked about the definition of stewardship. But one of the areas that I've also found is important to think about when we think about the kingdom and what we do and influence on others is being a leader.
[00:03:58] How would you [00:04:00] define leadership in light of the kingdom narrative?
[00:04:04] Brian Steele: [00:04:04] Yeah, I would say leadership is a type of service that takes, what's been entrusted to you. And I love your language of time and talent and treasure, and it is takes, what's been entrusted to you and you use that in a way that brings out the very most in the people that you're leading.
[00:04:28] So it's a type of service that brings other people to flourishing. So in an organization, if you're a leader, let's say you're the you're an employer you're serving the people that you employ in a manner that allows them to grow and to maximize their talent and their skill and their gifting so they can flourish.
[00:04:53] And that you're bringing good into the world through that influence. But I think it [00:05:00] begins with service and humility.
[00:05:04] Scott Maderer: [00:05:04] So I think my favorite chapter in the book in a very real way, and that's hard to say, cause I actually really enjoyed it. Overall was chapter five where you talk about the kingdom is not.
[00:05:20] And you talk about different things that fit into this, not only what is the kingdom, which is the important question, but okay. Therefore, what is not the kingdom, you share about how that kind of informs us what the kingdom is, what the kingdom isn't and why that's important.
[00:05:38] Brian Steele: [00:05:38] Sure. Yeah. I'll just run through a couple of them. Beginning with the kingdom is not a metaphor when Jesus taught. He taught in PA in parables, but he wasn't saying that his rule as King was a symbol or a metaphor. And that's why it's so important that we need to get to the place that God's kingdom.
[00:05:58] Isn't just real, [00:06:00] but that it's really real. And if we think it's a metaphor or symbol, then we'll never arrive at the place where God's kingdom is really real, meaning it has. Actual bearing in our everyday life. So kingdom's not a metaphor. It's also not something that's just far or future, like some Sunday way off in the foggy distant future God's kingdom will come.
[00:06:25] And it's surrounded by clouds. It's a little bit foggy. It has beam of
[00:06:29] Scott Maderer: [00:06:29] light somewhere, some beams.
[00:06:31] Brian Steele: [00:06:31] Sure. Some beams of light, maybe some angels. Something like that. Nope, that's not God's kingdom. God's kingdom is here and now it's embedded in space and time. It's embedded in reality, God's rule and reign has everything to do in the realms of our material world, our spiritual world, our individual realm and our social realm.
[00:06:56] It's all encompassed here and now [00:07:00] in the rule and reign of Jesus and. So I also say God's kingdom is not divorced from the world. Like it's not just some spiritual activity, the kingdom, isn't just praying for people, the kingdom, isn't just some sort of spiritual set of spiritual exercises.
[00:07:19] So the parable of the sheep and the goats that Jesus tells in Matthew 25 is very sobering. And if people haven't read that, I'd really encourage revisiting that. Cause he says to the sheep, I'm welcoming you into my joy because you gave water. And because you visited people and because you fed people and because you clothed people, meaning your actions in the real world were in accordance with my rule and reign.
[00:07:51] And then the goats, and this is terrifying. Scott. He says depart from me because I was hungry and you didn't feed me. I was [00:08:00] thirsty and you didn't want, give me water. I was naked and he didn't close me. He didn't visit me when I was in jail and we, the God's kingdom, isn't just a spiritual set of exercises, but it is deeply embedded in our world.
[00:08:15]But the other side of that, the flip side is it's not entirely dependent on the world either. And there is a a stream of kingdom theology that I think is very dangerous and even destructive. And it's something called dominion, ism, or kingdom now theology, which says that God's kingdom only comes when we gain control over.
[00:08:39] The instruments of this world. So we have to gain. The Supreme court, for example, in order for God's control yes or no, must have control of business, or we must have control of media, or we must have control of the education sector. And so that's another error [00:09:00] thinking that it's. Only dependent on the world.
[00:09:02] And so for God's can come, there has to be Christians in charge of all of these things, which is clearly not the case, especially from, if we look at like new Testament church, they were a persecuted church. They had zero power and control. They were under the thumb of Rome. And and that's true today, the fastest growing church, believe it or not is in Iran.
[00:09:32] And it is growing like wildfire without any of the instruments of state control or power or influence. So it's not to say that there shouldn't be Christians in politics, or there shouldn't be Christians in business, but it's just, we need Christians in business because. That means God's going to be able to reach people in those areas, but it's, we don't, God doesn't need that power for his kingdom to come.
[00:10:00] [00:10:00] The other thing is it's not divorced. God's kingdom, isn't divorced from humanity and the picture of the garden. Is there six days of creation and humanity is created on the last day. And then God gives us a charge. He says that we are to have dominion over the earth. And that is a, it's a Royal commission in our very DNA.
[00:10:26] In our very design. God is calling us to be vice Regents or under Kings to rule and reign on his behalf. And that we have a real place with real authority. That's been entrusted to us to rule and have dominion over the earth, which doesn't mean destroy. This is getting back to stewardship. It doesn't mean that we just get to pillage and plunder.
[00:10:55] If we're going to be good stewards of creation, it means we're going to take care of it. But we're also going [00:11:00] to bring out the full potential of what's latent of what's hidden inside creation. We're going to use those resources to be a blessing to other people, to bring goodness out, and we're going to do it in a way that's wise and in a way that's caring, but also in a way that's creative and innovative.
[00:11:20] And God is entrusting us to be creative. So he's not a micromanager Scott. He's not saying you have to do this and this and this he's saying I haven't trusted you with the brain. Now go use it to innovate, to create new technologies, to use the resources that are in this world, natural resources and human resources in a way to make this place.
[00:11:47] Flourish. So it's not divorced from humanity, but then we also have to say that God's kingdom isn't entirely human. There is this [00:12:00] element that we are in partnership with God that he is doing something in this world. And it's important for us to understand just what exactly that is that he's doing in this world.
[00:12:16] What is his will, what does it mean for his kingdom to come and for me to partner with him on a daily basis for that work to be accomplished. And my big temptation Scott and I hope I'm not the only one is to build my kingdom. Including writing a book called the kingdom field guide, the dark side, or the shadow side of me would want to use that book about God's kingdom to advance my own personal kingdom and to make a great name for myself and to establish my own kingdom.
[00:12:58] And that's the irony and the [00:13:00] tragedy of it all, where it's like it is a daily struggle to say, not my will. But your will be done, not my kingdom, Jesus, but your kingdom. It's not my business. It's your business. It's not my home. It's your home. It's not my money. It's your money? Not my glory, King Jesus, but you
[00:13:24] Scott Maderer: [00:13:24] well, and that the difference between looking for where God is operating and going there versus go where we want to go and then try to invite God along for the journey.
[00:13:37]Brian Steele: [00:13:37] Which is Lord, I got to tell you my plans and I'm going to ask you to put some, sprinkle your Holy water on it,
[00:13:41] Scott Maderer: [00:13:41] and please show up. And it's wait. Yeah. Yeah. And and the truth is God was God, is there too. It's not, God's not there, but it's just not, that's not really.
[00:13:55] You're putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. So as part of this too, when you talk about [00:14:00] what the kingdom is and what the kingdom is not, you talk about the delight. And I think most Christians would argue with you on the use of that particular word, but the delight that comes from sharing it with others.
[00:14:11] And yet I know that's one of the most difficult things that we're asked to do. So what does that actually practically look like in the real world?
[00:14:21]Brian Steele: [00:14:21] That's definitely the story of my life. If I was one of those guys I mentioned earlier that I was involved in a very messed up church.
[00:14:30] It was probably a cult. And so I was one of those guys that would go knocking on your door and would scream on a street corner and held up obnoxious signs with flames and stuff like this. And and. The sharing, quote, unquote, sharing the gospel. Most people have a fear of speaking to others about Jesus and and I do believe [00:15:00] that delight is key.
[00:15:02] And I think it's a really important question about why isn't delightful to to quote unquote, share the gospel. Probably it comes down to if we're not living a kingdom narrative than sharing the gospel of the kingdom, won't be delightful. And I just, I feel like it, it really does boil down to the story that's in our head.
[00:15:32] If we don't believe that God's kingdom is really real. Then why would we take delight in sharing that? Because what we're going to be inviting people into is just another set of to-dos and it's going to, and I think a lot of people, and this was me for a long time, felt like being an evangelist was being a fraud.
[00:15:56] I'm asking people [00:16:00] to. Encounter something that I'm not myself personally experiencing and. If we go back to the image of the garden and the story of the garden of Eden, the name Eden means delight in Hebrew, that what is God doing? He's creating a garden, a place of flourishing, a place of beauty, a place of savoring, a place of love.
[00:16:26] And from that place was the overflow. To the whole rest of the world of God's goodness, there was even, Eden was a mountain and the rivers flowed down from that mountain out to the rest of the world. And that's the picture of delight that when we are delighting ourselves in the Lord and his kingdom, there will be a natural or flow of delight that will extend out to the people around us.
[00:17:00] [00:16:59] And and so I, what I think like the kingdom of God sharing the good news is really sharing your life and allowing people to experience the overflow of the goodness and the delight that you have. And that when conversation comes up, the reason why there's so much delight is because there is a King who is ruling and his name is Jesus.
[00:17:27] And there's delight in my life and flourishing because of his rule and reign. And and that's where the good news comes from. It has to come from that overflow. Of a place of delight that's established in your life that then extends and flows out to other people.
[00:17:51] Scott Maderer: [00:17:51] So as part of that, I think, most of us are, many of us are not necessarily called to what the church [00:18:00] calls priesthood.
[00:18:01]Becoming a pastor, becoming a a leader of a church and that kind of thing. But you do point out and I agree with this. I believe this as well, that all believers are called to, what I've heard called the priesthood of all believers. So what then, how does that balance out and look like if we're leaving, living in the kingdom, As a Christian.
[00:18:22] Brian Steele: [00:18:22] Yeah. It, that goes back to who we are by design. So again, if we're going back to the garden, it wasn't just like a place of flowers and trees. It was also a temple. It was a meeting place with God and humanity. It was the holiest of Holies. It was a temple. And so in creation, we are by design priests.
[00:18:45] We are those who meet with God and then mediate, outward God's blessing to the rest of creation. So that's a role of a priest. And also the role of the priest is to sum up. The [00:19:00] praises of all creation and lifted up in worship towards God. So that's the role of the priest. So when we get to Exodus 19, when Israel just before they received the law, Mount Sinai, God said you will be to me, a kingdom of priests.
[00:19:17] It's, you're going to be my people who receive my blessing and then extend it outward to all of the earth. And then as priests, you're going to sum up all of the praises of all creation. You're going to lift up that worship and give me glory as priest. So what's really interesting then in, in first, Peter chapter two, Peter uses exactly the same language that was used at, in Exodus at Mount Sinai.
[00:19:46] And he says you are Royal, are a Royal priesthood. And he's talking now to the church. He's in fact, he's talking to pig and Christians living in Asia minor, not even Jews, he's [00:20:00] primarily addressing Gentiles and he's using that same calling from Exodus. And he says that now we are a Royal priesthood. And then in in revelation chapter one, it says, again that you are a kingdom of priests.
[00:20:20] And that we have this calling to upward offer worship and praise and prayer to God, and then outward to the rest of the world. Extend God's goodness as intermediaries or as. As his representatives, as priests, that when we receive his goodness and his love and his beauty, we extend it outward to the rest of the world.
[00:20:49] And that's our role as priests. And it's not just for a select few, but every single person who carries the name of Jesus [00:21:00] is included in that Royal priesthood.
[00:21:06] Scott Maderer: [00:21:06] you can find out more about the book over@kingdomfieldguides.com and you can connect with Brian on LinkedIn, under Brian C steel that's S T E L E. Of course I'll have links to all of this over in the show notes as well. Brian, anything else you'd like to share with the listener today?
[00:21:27] Brian Steele: [00:21:27] Yeah, I would just say it is the, it's the adventure of a lifetime that when you stub your toe on the hidden truth, it's worth taking a long time to ponder and to understand the value of what you've found.
[00:21:45] And in this life, there is a life of flourishing as you seek God's kingdom first. And I just strongly recommend in, in. Getting the kingdom field guide and actually doing the field trips because the temptation is just [00:22:00] to read it like a book and set it on your shelf. But my hope is that the field guide gets shoved in your backpack and it gets muddy and dirty that you, with your friends or your family or small group, you go have these immersive.
[00:22:12] Experiences together. Cause that's the best way. And maybe even the only way of learning about God's kingdom and having it come fully in your life. So that's my strong encouragement to people. Scott,
[00:22:25] Scott Maderer: [00:22:25] awesome. Thanks so much for being on the show today.
[00:22:28] Brian Steele: [00:22:28] I have loved it. Thank you.
[00:22:36] Scott Maderer: [00:22:36] Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired [00:23:00] stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:23:03] All one word. ITunes rate, it'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.

Scroll back to top


In today's episode, I ask Brian about:

  • What his definition of leadership is...  
  • His list of Kingdom Do Nots...
  • How we can use our joy in the Kingdom to share it with others...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

God's Kingdom isn't divorced from Man...  In the last day God give's us dominion over the Kingdom, and that's a royal commission. - Brian Steele

Click to Tweet

You can connect with Brian using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

SNS 80: Interview with Ernest Prabhakar of 2transform.us

By Leave a Comment

Join us today for the Saturday Night Special with Ernie Prabhakar on transforming yourself...

In this episode Ernie Prabhakar and I share his journey and why it applies to you...

In tonight’s Saturday Night Special I interview Ernie Prabhakar about his journey from Physicist to spiritual entrepreneur and what that means.  I also ask Ernie to share how he reconciles science and religion.  Ernie also shares a great resource and mindset to help you grow your impact.

Join in on the Chat below.

Download New Tab

SNS 80 Interview with Ernest Prabhakar of 2transform.us
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Welcome to tonight's Saturday night, special episode 80.
[00:00:05] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:00:05] Hi everyone. This is Arnie provoker. This is your chance to invest in yourself. Invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world, but using your time, talent and treasures to live out your calling. This is a great chance to find the opportunity to become the Christian.
[00:00:22] You always want it to be, and to be inspired, to be the best version of yourself. Listen to the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader.
[00:00:38] so some people tell you to follow your heart, but what I would tell you is. Follow your aorta. And the reason I use AR is one because of the bad joke, but also because it's an acronym aorta stands for ambition, openness risks, thankfulness and awareness.
[00:01:00] [00:01:00] Scott Maderer: [00:01:00] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:01:05] If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be. Then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:32] And tonight Saturday night special. I interview Ernie Lockhart about his journey from physicist to spiritual entrepreneur. And what that means. I also ask Ernie to share how you reconcile science and religion, and Ernie also shares a great resource and a mindset that can really help you grow your impact.
[00:01:51] Now, one area that a lot of folks need some help with is around the area of productivity. [00:02:00] Getting not just more things done, but actually getting the right things done can be really tough. I've got a course called productivity for your passion. That's designed to help you do this and then to hold you accountable and walk with you so that you can tailor productivity, not just to be getting more done, but actually getting the right things done.
[00:02:25] What's more, we take the approach of looking at your personality and how you actually look at things in the world and tailor the productivity system to your personality. Cause the truth is a lot of the systems that are out there are written really well for somebody with a particular personality type.
[00:02:43] But if you have a different approach to things, they just don't work, but there's tools and techniques and approaches that you can take that will work for anyone. And we help you do that and productivity for your passion. Check it out over@inspiredstewardship.com [00:03:00] slash launch. Ernie provoca is a ninth generation Christian and second generation immigrant from India.
[00:03:08] His ancestors converted from, into Islam in the early 17 hundreds at the Dawn of the Protestant missionary movement and his family immigrated to Chicago in 1967, a few months before he was born. He was raised and confirmed in the Lutheran church. Whereas parents continue to be active in lay ministry.
[00:03:26] Ernie holds a degree in physics from both Caltech and MIT though, for the last decade, he has worked as a product manager for a large technology company in Silicon Valley. And. Apple acquired that company in 1997. So Ernie was initially hired as a summer contractor because of his Unix background, but he Rose up to a senior Rhapsody product manager within six months.
[00:03:51] Actually because the rest of the department was laid off and he was instrumental in the launch of the max O S tin server, as well as [00:04:00] Darwin and various other projects until 2014. He continued to work on that and focus on open source web 2.0 grid computing, all these other geeky technologies in line with his scientific background.
[00:04:13] But he was also one of the key leaders of the Apple Christian fellowship, which sponsored speaker socials and other events to help believers at Apple bring their whole person into the marketplace. And Ernie works to show that both scientist's desire to elegantly represent eternal truth and the marketer's passion to communicate timely facts that engage the emotions and the will since then Ernie has pivoted and become what he calls a spiritual entrepreneur.
[00:04:40] He currently works in it at a smart car startup in Palo Alto, and he continues to dream of in innovative ways to spread the kingdom of God. He and his wife Santi live with their two children in Santa Clara, California. They attend Kingsway community church in San Jose, where Ernie serves as a junior elder.
[00:05:05] [00:05:00] Ernie. Welcome to the show.
[00:05:07] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:05:07] Hi Scott. Great to be here. Wonderful to meet you and your audience.
[00:05:11] Scott Maderer: [00:05:11] It is awesome to have you here. So as we just talked a little bit about in the introduction, you find yourself in an interesting place as a Christian. And as a physicist, I get some of the same questions.
[00:05:23] I, we've talked about. I have a degree in biochemistry. I have a degree in genetics, all this hard science background. And then I'm also a Christian. So how do you reconcile religion and science in your own mind and in your own life?
[00:05:37]Ernie Prbhakar: [00:05:37] Really appreciate this question because I have not practiced physics for, 25 years.
[00:05:42] But when I was a physicist studying at Caltech, I would get this question quite a lot. And it always confused me. And looking back, I realized why is that? I always view science and religion as tools. And they're complimentary tools with our own [00:06:00] aerobars and areas of clarity and areas of confusion, but it occurred to me that a lot of people treat science and religion as authority.
[00:06:09] And when you have a scientific authority and a religious authority that disagree with each other, Feels like science and religion are in conflict, especially if those leaders are somewhat insecure about their position and feel threatened by the other as has been the case at many various times in history.
[00:06:26] But from my perspective, I don't worship religion. I don't worship science. I worship Jesus and. Science and religion are traditions and tools that are incredibly useful and powerful and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. And so I've never really felt like there was any real conflict between the methodologies.
[00:06:46]The way I would describe it to my freshmen students when I was teaching lab class is the real difference is between good faith and bad faith. So what do a scientist good fake means? I believe this is true. So [00:07:00] let me create an experiment to test that and demonstrate that it's true as opposed to saying this is true.
[00:07:07] So you should not question it. That to me is bad faith and you can have good faith and bad faith in science or religion or in politics. And so that's just how I look at the world.
[00:07:18]Scott Maderer: [00:07:18] And I think, again, when this when we're talking about this is early in 2021 we've been living through COVID and politics and all of the overlap and all of the various.
[00:07:33] Debates about what is the truth and what is it, the truth. And who's lying and who's telling the truth. And I think it's the interesting, I like I've had this conversation before where I'm like, science is biased. Of course it's biased. It has people in it. Therefore there's bias.
[00:07:50] Differences. A lot of times science is, it is somewhat, self-correcting not perfectly self-correcting, it always takes time sometimes way longer than it should. [00:08:00] But at, over time it begins to bubble out and become somewhat self-correcting. And I think religion can be the same way and that, again, are there bad actors in religion?
[00:08:11] Yep because there's people, but over time they began to, bubble out truth and goodness too.
[00:08:22] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:08:22] Yeah. And that's the challenge is that ironically, the more robust the system. Often the less adaptive it is. And that's one of the reasons, especially since COVID, I've really been pursuing this concept of resilience or anti-fragility, and that you don't want to be fragile, but you don't want to be too strong and too certain either.
[00:08:43] And it's a, quite a personal and historic quest, try not to try to understand which things are worth holding on to, and which things you need to let go of because they're not working anymore.
[00:08:56]Scott Maderer: [00:08:56] And it's that idea of a tree that doesn't bend in the wind will break in a [00:09:00] storm where the tree that has some flexibility will last.
[00:09:03]Yeah. So you now talk about yourself. You mentioned you haven't been doing physics for a long time and the phrase that you use to describe yourself to me and in the intro is that of being a spiritual entrepreneur. That's one of those things where it invites the obvious question, what the heck is that?
[00:09:23] And why does it matter to people?
[00:09:25]Ernie Prbhakar: [00:09:25] It's funny in some ways that it comes out of this tension of between religion and science and my search for absolutes and my coming of age in the eighties and nineties and the way I described myself more generally, Is, I am a human systems designer or an anthro physicist.
[00:09:47] And that I use the tools and training I got from my physical education to understand human systems. And so I've studied disruption theory and I studied entrepreneurship and I was at Apple for 17 years [00:10:00] and it gave me a really rich understanding of. How things could be different than what they are and how things could be come different than what they are.
[00:10:08] And I realized in the story I tell is that when I joined Apple, it was six months from bankruptcy. And Steve jobs said, we're going to make a turnaround that they're going to write about in the business books. And we said, you asked her Steve, whatever reality distortion field, Turns out he was right.
[00:10:26] He knew something I did not. And I spent a long time studying him and studying what happened at Apple through that lens. And then it occurred to me, there are days and I such an almost literal now where the church seems about six months away from bankruptcy. And I said, we have some incredibly rich and powerful traditions, but some of those Wells are going dry.
[00:10:48] And we need to dig new ones. And so a spiritual entrepreneurship that the key aspect for me is that I tried to solve human problems. That involve values, not just [00:11:00] convenience, not just time, not just money, but truly about human problems that involve values. And I try to bring an entrepreneurial lens into it.
[00:11:06] And the reason for that is all of the existing systems we have. There's a great saying. All of our systems are perfectly designed to get the results they're currently getting. And if you want it to get a different result, you need a different system, which means you have to change. The assumptions you are operating in.
[00:11:25]The difficulty is people in theology have a really ugly word. For innovation beginning with the letter H . Yes, exactly. Yeah.
[00:11:34] Scott Maderer: [00:11:34] And depending on when you get, you have that word yelled at you, you may get a little warm around the collar during
[00:11:41] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:11:41] certain times. Yeah. And so this is, so for me, COVID has been great is that people have been distracted with lots of other things.
[00:11:47] And so there's a lot of chances to innovate and try new and different things. And so that's kinda what it means to be a chop. Hunter is trying to figure out. What does human beings actually need to live flourishing lives and how do [00:12:00] we design or inspire, or even build tools and prototypes and art to help people create and live in those kinds of systems.
[00:12:12] So I've worked with a bunch of different startups. I've worked with different churches and mission agencies, and that's my quest is to figure out how to Help human beings thrive in new ways as we enter the 21st century unprecedented opportunities and challenges.
[00:12:27]Scott Maderer: [00:12:27] Yeah. And that's it's interesting because I'll use it example out of my own life just because that's the easiest thing for me to do.
[00:12:35] But so I'm part of a networking organization known as BNI business network international. And when COVID hit the, what. The for 35 years, the history of BNI had been, you go to a weekly meeting in person, 35, 40 other people sit in the room, pass business, help each other, grow our business. And literally all of a sudden it's like we can't do this.
[00:12:59][00:13:00] And within a very short time, they created a new system. But I, every chapter got free online access set up a agenda for it, gave us tools, said, here's how you can do your, keep doing what you're doing online. And a lot of people don't enjoy it. A lot of people don't like it because there's challenges online.
[00:13:23] Amen. And however, I like to point out to people, there's challenges about the in-person meeting too. You seem to be forgetting was, I used to complain about that too. Now you're complaining about a lot, but what's interesting is even in the midst of COVID, even with everything that was going on, even with all the disruption, even with shutting down for almost a month, while they figured this out and got the new systems up and running.
[00:13:46] More business was passed within BNI in 2020 than any year previous. Wow. And it's now that's across the world. That's worldwide. So it's not, it obviously varies in different places. It's worse than [00:14:00] some and better than others, but that idea of taking disruption event. Have a robust organization pivot and it works.
[00:14:10] And yet I know other organizations that have completely shut down and struggled and that's not an accusation to them. That's not saying they didn't do anything right or wrong, but it's interesting how a disruptive event like that can create those sorts of challenges.
[00:14:24] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:14:24] Yeah. That's a great example.
[00:14:28] And I think that this is the one of these inflection points in the world. Like the internet, like the industrial revolution, where organizations that adapt and try to find new ways to do things better will out-compete those that try to return to the,
[00:14:46] Scott Maderer: [00:14:46] so another thing that you mentioned is you've described yourself. As becoming a Christian. And I really resonate with that because I've actually used those exact same [00:15:00] words to describe myself in that I don't think I'm fully formed yet. So can you unpack a little bit about what that means to you and why that's important to you and share a little bit about your journey, coming to faith as
[00:15:13] well?
[00:15:15] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:15:15] Yeah. So I grew up in a, in some ways the traditional Christian family, my family has been Christian for nine generations, actually all the way back to the beginnings of Protestant missions in India. And so I was baptized in a Methodist church with my parents soon after they arrived in the U S when I was born here.
[00:15:31] And then probably my first professional faith was at a Baptist youth camp at age eight. But very much, that was like a, yeah, I agree with this. It was an intellectual sort of a thing. And then it was only in my teens when I hit a real series of personal crises that I really felt a deep sense of despair.
[00:15:48] Was self-aware of going through junior high, which was extremely traumatic. And so I cried out to God. None of this makes any sense. If you can do something, please do. [00:16:00] And so that was a real sort of emotional cry out to God. But then every decade, since then, I feel like I'm discovering new layers of what it means to follow Jesus and who Jesus is discovering psychology in my twenties, I think about codependency and dysfunctional behavior and things like that.
[00:16:15]Dealing with some addictions in my thirties and really dealing with some deep pain and anger and Scott that I hadn't really confronted and coming to grips with who I am as a human being and in my forties really pressing into getting beyond my initial tradition and really interacting with people from different faiths, different denominations, different backgrounds, and really learned to appreciate that they knew things that I did not, and that I wouldn't necessarily want to change, my background or my heritage, because I think it has some key advantages.
[00:16:46] I also realized that how some distinct disadvantages and there's a lot to be learned from there. And what's interesting to me, as I've been going through a bunch of exercises during COVID with various friends and relatives, the thing that I've discovered is that [00:17:00] Jesus is actually more important than I thought he was.
[00:17:05]But not, but. But Jesus himself is important. My ideas about Jesus are much less. So it's a really interesting shift from the intellectual to the spiritual and the experiential and the relational, and just the practical little details of how I relate to myself, how I relate to my kids is what does it mean for me to see Jesus in those encounter experiences and interactions?
[00:17:28]
[00:17:28] Scott Maderer: [00:17:28] Oh and I think that, that personal relationship part Again, getting back to the first question of that religion versus science question. I think as a scientist it's very easy to think that we'll approach everything in a very rational intellectual way. And I don't know about you,
[00:17:45] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:17:45] but that lasts about three months in my marriage.
[00:17:52] Scott Maderer: [00:17:52] I didn't say we could do it. I just said,
[00:17:55] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:17:55] I really thought it would work
[00:17:59] Scott Maderer: [00:17:59] well, but I [00:18:00] think that's where that comes in is all of a sudden you discover that there's this whole other dimension that and the marriage example is actually a great one because it is that it is a personal relationship.
[00:18:11] And I don't think it's an either or either. I think it's a both. And in other words, I don't think there's anything wrong with intellectual. Pursuits and thinking about religion and Jesus and theology and all of these other things. But I also think you also have to recognize that there's a personal relationship part and they're both good.
[00:18:30] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:18:30] Yeah. We all like to think about it. Digital is a superstructure on the analog. So the digital world of information and knowledge and mathematics. And things like that is really important, but it's really just a thin skin over the rich polyp, which is the analog, the experiential, the emotional, the feeling, the visceral, and like it's really powerful.
[00:18:55] And if you have the right tools and the right insights, it can have a lot of leverage. But it's [00:19:00] not the real thing. The phrase they used to teach us was don't eat the menu.
[00:19:06]Scott Maderer: [00:19:06] Especially in certain fast food restaurants, it looks nothing like the real food. So maybe you'd be better off eating the menu. I don't know. I've been to a few restaurants where I've been better off eating the menu now that I think about it. So one of the questions I like to ask everybody is.
[00:19:26] About this stewardship. I, of course my brand inspired stewardship obviously stewardship is a lens through which I run a lot of things. But I've also discovered that's a term and a word that for a lot of different people means a lot of different things. So for you, can you define how that, what that word means to you and what has it played out in your life?
[00:19:47] Give us some examples of that.
[00:19:50] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:19:50] No, I'm going to say that for me. The phrase, the part of that phrase that really has hit me most powerfully is this idea of self stewardship [00:20:00] that I am not my own. And especially having been so incredibly privileged to have a job and a safe home during COVID and very much aware of those who don't.
[00:20:11]I find myself asking what does God have for me? I don't want to feel guilty or be steamed about it or embarrassed by it even, but I want to be responsible. And the sense of that, even my health, my psychology they're not just mine. Everything I do is deep impact on my wife, my children, my coworkers, my community, my country, my church.
[00:20:35] And so for me, stewardship is. He was starting from a place of identity of being loved by God, but I don't have to prove myself or earn anything or justify myself, but from there saying, okay, given that what gifts could I give to the world and how can I be a steward of all the resources and connections and educational opportunity that I have, and, bring glory to God, bring flourishing to humanity and, [00:21:00] make people's lives better for having interacted with me.
[00:21:05]Scott Maderer: [00:21:05] Is that something that you've always felt that way? Or is this something that you've come to over the years? I think
[00:21:11]Ernie Prbhakar: [00:21:11] I've always had a sense of, for lack of a better word, selfish, alienation. I think that was why I had my sort of emotional crisis in my teens is. And so at that point it was like, nothing that I've been told about myself or reality really seems to make much sense.
[00:21:29] So trying to live for myself is stupid. And when I've tried, it has been Diverting, but fruitless. And so it's been a general understanding that hopefully I'm getting better at the practice of is that the only there's wonderful Eric Barker talks about the three types of meaning in life.
[00:21:49] There's the meaning of pleasure or having fun. There's the value of growth or mastery recently and competence, [00:22:00] and then there's the value of meaning or love and service to others. And I think that for me actually all of them, no, I see through this lens of stewardship, is that.
[00:22:11]Obviously service to others, but also self development and self character growth is a form of stewardship. And even pleasure is a former stewardship. The things that we choose to enjoy are the things that we celebrate and elevate and the ways that we enjoy them they teach our body what we value.
[00:22:29] And so somebody, I see all of those things as different dimensions of stewardship. I've always used that word, but I've always had that consciousness. About reality.
[00:22:39]Scott Maderer: [00:22:39] And I would say with the pleasure part of the stewardship, where. Where your treasure is there.
[00:22:44] Your heart will be is a lot of times we think of it the other way around, where our heart is, that's where we'll put our treasure, but that's not actually what that says,
[00:22:56] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:22:56] but not with our dogs because we use pleasure, and food [00:23:00] to reward them to can we start behaviors? And so that's, I got a lot of therapy out of our dog trainer when she comes to visit us. Because the way she talks about putting the dogs and training of the dogs, there's so many applications to parenting, to self nurture, to discipleship.
[00:23:15]Scott Maderer: [00:23:15] Not saying that we're dogs, that's not what he said. Just to be clear before
[00:23:20] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:23:20] anyone gets upset. My dream is to someday become the person my dog
[00:23:24] Scott Maderer: [00:23:24] thinks I am. Yeah, I agree. I've also said if there is such a thing as reincarnation, I want to come back as a dog with a good owner. That's what I want to come back as.
[00:23:36]So you know you work a lot in this idea of system in engineering. We talked earlier about this the spiritual entrepreneurship and how this journey is that you've been working. On figuring out, how to make human systems better, how to make people's lives better. So using that as the lens, if somebody really wants to, what I call, make a dent in the [00:24:00] universe, make an impact on the world, whatever that is for them.
[00:24:03]What are some of the top principles or ideas or areas that you think they should be focusing on so that they can really learn to do this?
[00:24:11] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:24:11] I got a good one for you. So some people tell you. To follow your heart. And I think that's close, but what I would tell you is follow your aorta, which biology majors, that's the big artery that comes out of your heart that carries all the block.
[00:24:27] And the reason I use it is one cause of the bad joke, but also because it's an acronym. So this is something I developed a couple of years ago that just to describe my own dirty and I've been using with other people a artist stands for ambition. Openness risk, thankfulness and awareness. So the idea is that you start with your ambition and it doesn't really matter what the ambition is.
[00:24:53] And as long as something that you believe is good. And then, and that's important to just understand [00:25:00] from yourself what you actually believe is, but this is something I like the word passion in the sense that it's something worth suffering for. This is important enough to you and good enough of the world that you're willing to undergo pain to make it happen.
[00:25:12] Okay. So that's the ambition part, but the second thing is that what's really, yes, this is the thing I really care about. Then you have to practice openness. You have to be willing to listen to all the reasons why it wouldn't work. All the people who've done it before. All the obstacles that you don't overcome in order to make this a reality.
[00:25:29] And that's hard and it's hard. You have to really love this thing enough to be willing to endure most people. I know either they knew a thing or they run off half cocked and I've done them more than a few times myself. And then the third thing is then. Okay. Once you've actually heard all the difficulties, all the opportunities, all the best practices, all the worst practices, then you have to embrace risk.
[00:25:53]I like to define faith as wise risk in that if there is no risk, then there's really nothing of [00:26:00] value happening. But you want to actually do this after you've gone through all the openness after you could win eyes wide open, then you have to take the plunge and actually try something and make the risk.
[00:26:09] And then the fourth step is in some ways even harder, it is to be thankful because when you risk, you will often fail. Or even if you succeed that can almost be even more devastating because you fail to learn and to have the attitude of gratitude is essential to be able to learn from both success and failure.
[00:26:34]As I was a Kipling who said, meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters, just the same. In fact, one of the most powerful things that I realized was in terms of dealing with shame and that shame isn't in my experience and titled learning. When you feel badly about something you don't want to think about it, your brain refuses to learn, and that's why people tend to get stuck in various unhealthy loops different kinds.
[00:27:00] [00:26:59] And and it's not an easy thing, but developing a discipline of thankfulness and there's very spiritual things like forgiveness and so forth that are associated with that is essential to actually maximizing the learning from the risks you take. And then the last piece which isn't somebody at the beginning, but it's also the end is a greater awareness, is that as we've got through say, ah, now I understand much more about who I am about my strengths and my weaknesses and what I really want.
[00:27:27] And I also understand much better what the world needs and who is already doing a good job and where there are holes where nobody is doing anything that I might be able to make a difference in. And then you go back and you start the whole aorta practice all over again, as you with hopefully a deeper understanding you often fewer resources, but greater wisdom.
[00:27:47] And then you have to build your way back up. But. And the best advice I can give is, if you buy this theory is to try to do it as quickly and cheaply as possible. Do just very small risks with a fast [00:28:00] learning cycle. When I did my startup, it was three months and $30,000 and it was a glorious learning experience, but not a commercial success, but I'm still really glad that I managed to learn in three months and $32,000.
[00:28:12] What I have friends who took two years and $2 million to learn, yep. And the and that's, especially if you're younger or if you're currently unemployed for various reasons, your opportunity cost is low. So take risks and don't take foolish risks, take wise risk, but do the things that will really help you.
[00:28:30]You have to risk the thing that matters. A lot of the things people will do, they'll do all the safe, comfortable stuff first and put the risky stuff off to the air. You want to pull the risk forward and do the riskiest stuff soonest so that if you're wrong, you find out right away. And you don't waste a lot of time and learning how to dance with the risk.
[00:28:48] My friend, Seth Goden, Wednesday friend acquaintance, Seth Godin is a famous marketing guru, talks a lot about dancing with the fear and developing that habit of mine can be hugely exponentially [00:29:00] valuable in helping you to actually make the right dent at the right time.
[00:29:07] Scott Maderer: [00:29:07] And a couple of things came to mind, as you were talking about the first one is the quick and cheap and kind of experiment and iterate ideas.
[00:29:15] So the coaching group that I'm part of, one of the expressions that we actually use in our group is go sell some soap. And it actually comes out of a client story where there's a client, they had a job doing things. They weren't real happy with it, and they wanted to start something on their own and they threw out the idea of I make these home, this homemade soap, maybe I could sell it.
[00:29:40] And, first I need to come up with a website and then I need to do all of it, and basically they started spinning out the 2,742 things they needed to do before they could quote, start the business, and literally the coach looked at him and said, no, what you need to do is go sell some soap.
[00:29:58] It's [00:30:00] basically, wait, let's start over the process. Yeah. Whether than wait time and energy and wasted building. And at this point you don't even know if you're going to like it. You don't know if it's going to work, run the experiment instead. But that is a, it's an interesting thing that I don't think most of us as human beings want to do it that way.
[00:30:19] Ernie Prbhakar: [00:30:19] Yeah we, I think the I've often been accused of having ego to burn with my background. And in fact, I looked at it and says, yeah, actually the goal of a startup and I come from the startup community. It's basically to burn ego to by learning. Okay. And I've got to a point where I've actually burned all my ego and the completely depleted, which is it took some doing.
[00:30:40]But I think once you realize that is the discipline you're in, it's not about getting facts or gaining assets, it's really about burning ego to, by learning and facing your fears and your insecurities. And that's why for me, actually, I love sports entrepreneurship not even so much because of the money and the impact, but just because of the character [00:31:00] development.
[00:31:00] I mean for our generation, it's really the closest we have to going to war where you can really be faced with an existential crisis and really been forced to ask who you are and what do you really believe in? And.

Scroll back to top


Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

Follow Your Aorta not your heart... Ambition, Openness, Risk, Thankfulness, and Awareness... - Ernie Prabhakar

Click to Tweet

You can connect with Ernie using the resources below:

Let Me Know What you Think Below....

>