SNS94 Saturday Night Special - Interview with John Stange Author of Dwell On These Things
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Welcome to tonight's Saturday night, special episode 94.
[00:00:05] John Stange: [00:00:05] Hi, I'm John . I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling, having the ability to value yourself like God values you is key.
[00:00:23] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this. The inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader.
[00:00:31]and here's the thing. There, there are things that the Lord wants each of us to do ways in which he's equipped us ways in which he's called us. And he's called us to all different areas, but there are many people that never answer that call because of their internal dialogue. So I know, the different ways the Lord's gifted me and called me and I'm trying to be faithful to him.
[00:00:51] Scott Maderer: [00:00:51] Welcome
[00:00:51] and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, [00:01:00] then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:17]and tonight, Saturday night special, I interviewed John stingy about his new book dwell on these things. I asked John about where the idea for the book came from and why we talk to ourselves in a way that we would never talk to anyone else. I also asked John how his book can help us see ourselves the way God sees us.
[00:01:40] John. And I also spend some time talking about the actions you can take to work on your own. Self-talk. Now, one area that a lot of folks need some help with is around the area of productivity. Getting not just more things done, but actually getting the right [00:02:00] things done can be really tough. I've got a course called productivity for your passion.
[00:02:06] That's designed to help you do this and then to hold you accountable and walk with you so that you can tailor productivity, not just to be getting more done, but actually getting the right things done. What's more, we take the approach of looking at your personality and how you actually look at things in the world and tailor the productivity system to your personality.
[00:02:31] Cause the truth is a lot of the systems that are out there are written really well for somebody with a particular personality type. But if you have a different approach to things, they just don't work, but there's tools and techniques and approaches that you can take that will work for anyone. And we help you do that and productivity for your passion.
[00:02:52] Check it out over@inspiredstewardship.com slash launch. John Stankey is the [00:03:00] lead pastor of core Creek community church in Langhorne, Pennsylvania, as well as an adjunct professor at Carn university, where he teaches courses on counseling theology and church planting. John is a certified speaker, trainer and coach with the John Maxwell team.
[00:03:18] And he's also the director of the national mission board, a ministry focused on church planting and church health. He hosts three podcasts, the chapter a day, audio Bible, daily devotions with pastor John. And most recently the podcast dwell on these things, which has been collectively downloaded more than 5 million times.
[00:03:40] Welcome to the show, John.
[00:03:43] John Stange: [00:03:43] It's great to be with you, Scott. Thanks for having
[00:03:45] Scott Maderer: [00:03:45] me. Absolutely. Currently I'm so looking forward to our conversation today, and I'll be honest, I really enjoy going through the book. The topic is something that's near and dear to my heart. So dwell on these things as the title of the book coming out here real [00:04:00] soon.
[00:04:00] Can you talk a little bit about where the idea came from? Why is this topic something that you wanted to share and something that you feel is important?
[00:04:09] John Stange: [00:04:09] Yeah, it's interesting. So in the past 23 years, I've been pastoring full-time and you, I know are well aware that there's a variety of things that pastors are asked to do or asked to preach.
[00:04:21] That's the most visible thing we're asked to do. We're also invited to lead. But counseling is a large portion of a pastor's week. And so in those 23 years, I don't even know at this point, how many people I've sat down with or how many hours I've spent counseling people, but it would probably surprise most people to know what kind of message most of us are preaching to our hearts and the type of things that our minds are dwelling on.
[00:04:49] They really do not line up with the truth of scripture and really don't line up with the truth of the gospel. And so a lot of the time that I'm spending as a pastor, sitting down with people is all [00:05:00] about retraining our minds or reminding us of what scripture actually says so that we stop preaching something to our hearts.
[00:05:08] It's actually hurtful. We want to preach something to our own hearts. It's helpful and encouraging. And in line with what God is actually saying and not the falsehoods that sometimes we've adopted into our thinking.
[00:05:21]Scott Maderer: [00:05:21] Yeah, let's dive into that a little bit more. If you had to sum up, dwell on these things in one or two sentences what is the fundamental message that you want people to, you hope people walk away with after they've worked through the book?
[00:05:35] John Stange: [00:05:35] I want people to understand what it looks like to preach the gospel to their own heart. One of the things that I've noticed throughout the course of my ministry is that I get a lot of opportunity. Like I just mentioned to council, I also get a lot of opportunity to preach, but I will never have as much opportunity to preach to you as you will have.
[00:05:54] To preach to you. And so when you look at what scripture tells us, it speaks about the life, the [00:06:00] death and the resurrection of Christ. And if we can boil things down to the life, death and resurrection of Christ and start understanding how each of those aspects apply to our walk with him, we'll start preaching a different message to our hearts.
[00:06:14] Christ lived. The perfect life for us. He died in our place to pay for our sin. He Rose from the grave in victory, over sin, Satan, and death, and shares that victory with all who trust in him. And I think most of the issues that we wrestle with come down to Failure to apply one or more of those aspects, either the life, death, or resurrection of Christ to our daily circumstances and as a result.
[00:06:43] So often we end up preaching a false gospel to our hearts that doesn't line up with what Christ actually already accomplished on our behalf.
[00:06:51] Scott Maderer: [00:06:51] And I think that idea of. When we think about our internal voice and how we talk to ourselves I think I shared this story with [00:07:00] you, but I'll share it with the listeners as well, that, I've had the opportunity.
[00:07:03] I was speaking to a group of four or 500 people, all entrepreneurs, all very successful, all people that, from all outside signals. Everyone would go there. They're there. They've got it. They've arrived. And I asked them, how many of you have an internal voice? Every single hand went up. And I said, now keep your hand up.
[00:07:21] If the voice is nice to you, every single hand went down. Yeah. So we have that internal dialogue. We hear these messages and then of course we hear them also echoed to us from the world as well. Can you talk about why is it that we have that sort of negative internal dialogue? What is it that's happening to us and in us to make us dwell so much on the negative.
[00:07:47] John Stange: [00:07:47] I think many relationships that we have in this world are very conditional in nature. And so a lot of the people that you interact with a lot of the people I interact with, they love us. As long as we do something [00:08:00] for them or provide something for them or something along those lines. It's very conditional.
[00:08:05] And it's hard for us to start thinking about the nature of God's love for us and how he sees us. Through a lens that doesn't start to feel conditional as well, because there's so many things in our day to day, our day-to-day life that reinforce a conditional. Mindset. And so we start preaching that to our own hearts.
[00:08:24] We start thinking about God that way, even though he doesn't interact with us that way we start treating him like he does. And I think it's hard for us to think of him differently. We look at other fallen people. We look at other people that are struggling and we assume that God is going to interact with us in the same exact way as fallen humanity.
[00:08:44] Interacts with us. And that's why it's important for us to stay in the scriptures. That's why it's important for us to understand the truth of the gospel. And I really think it's important for us to start dwelling on what the scriptures actually teach us so that our minds won't [00:09:00] easily go in a direction where we start preaching that conditional love, that conditional message or that false gospel to our own hearts.
[00:09:07] And that's hard to overcome for many people.
[00:09:09]Scott Maderer: [00:09:09] I'll go a step further, I would guess. I know for myself for many years, my relationship with myself was conditional. So forget about my relationship with other people, even myself relationships.
[00:09:22] John Stange: [00:09:22] You're exactly right. Yeah. We're we adopt that mindset and it becomes our own internal dialogue where sometimes, and sometimes Scott, we could be more critical of ourselves than anyone we've ever met.
[00:09:34] I know that's certainly my struggle, at times I have been. Much more critical of myself than I think anyone I've ever met has been critical of me.
[00:09:42]Scott Maderer: [00:09:42] Let's explore that. Would you mind sharing a little bit, I know in the book you share a lot of personal stories and narratives. Can you talk a little bit about some of that personal journey, some of your own story and how you've struggled with negative self-talk over the year and [00:10:00] why is this important to think about?
[00:10:02] Yeah,
[00:10:02] John Stange: [00:10:02] I think anytime you're. Somebody who is willing to take steps of faith, especially steps of faith that are going to put you in front of a group. There are conversations that you need to have with yourself in the midst of that process. So one of the things that I'm frequently doing is standing in front of groups of people, sometimes small groups, sometimes large groups.
[00:10:26] Where I'm preaching and teaching and communicating. And I used to find myself afterward over analyzing myself and looking at those moments and thinking to myself, All right. How did you look when you did that? Did you make a fool of yourself? Did you seem silly? And typically I would judge the success or the failure of a message that I preached or something that I had taught based on how I looked while delivering it.
[00:10:53] And that's not a great metric. One of the things that over time I started to realize is that I needed to get out of that mindset and [00:11:00] start focusing on asking the question. Did you just help people or not? And if I had helped people, then I wanted to consider that a more successful opportunity to teach.
[00:11:13] Not whether or not I looked good while I was trying to help people. And so frequently when you're in front of a group and you're someone who tends to over-analyze yourself and you finish up, then you start jabbing yourself with all these comments of thoughts that you could have said this better or done this better.
[00:11:32] And I thought to myself over time, I am not going to last. And pastoral ministry is after every time I speak to a group, I start tearing myself apart like this. And I noticed it that my mind was filled with so much negative self-talk. And I also noticed that as I interact with other pastoral colleagues and friends, that many of them were wrestling with the same exact.
[00:11:54] Thing. And then you couple that with all the different counseling sessions and all the conversations and [00:12:00] everything else that I've been involved with through the years, and eventually it just became very clear in my mind that this was a subject I wanted to speak more about because it was something that the Lord was teaching me about personally.
[00:12:11] And I knew that it would be helpful to others. And so I thought this needs to be put down in book form, and maybe it would be helpful to somebody to be able to pick this up and spend a full month just meditating on what scripture actually says and just learning how to apply the gospel to our lives that way so that we can counteract our negative self-talk and start preaching a true message.
[00:12:33] A message of hope to our hearts, just like the Lord's been doing all throughout the course of his word.
[00:12:38]Scott Maderer: [00:12:38] And, to be clear, you don't have to be a pastor to have that internal that internal feeling. You don't have to her, you don't have to be a public speaker. I think we all face this and different, you know how again, raise your hand.
[00:12:50] If you've had that feeling of, you leave the conversation and then six minutes later, you're like, Oh, I should've said this.
[00:12:57]John Stange: [00:12:57] And here's the thing. There, there are things that the Lord [00:13:00] wants. Each of us to do ways in which he's equipped us ways in which he's called us. And he's called us to all different areas, but there are many people that never answer that call because of their internal dialogue.
[00:13:11] So I, I know. The different ways the Lord's gifted me and called me. And I'm trying to be faithful to him to serve in those ways. But I know that there are many believers that are afraid to take that first step. And a lot of it comes back to the negative self-talk that's going on in their mind.
[00:13:26]False gospel that they've latched on to that doesn't really allow them to see themselves from God's eyes. And doesn't really allow them to actually believe that God would make use of them or that God had equipped them. And I think spending a little time in the scriptures, taking a look at what the Lord's actually said can be extremely helpful.
[00:13:45] If we're wrestling with trying to answer a specific calling of God on our lives.
[00:13:49]Scott Maderer: [00:13:49] And it, it brings up the saying that I know I've heard and I'm sure most of the listeners have as well. It's not, God does not call the equipped. God equips the called, [00:14:00] I think we oftentimes are waiting till we figured it out and it's no, wait, that's not actually what you're asked to do.
[00:14:07]Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the title. I think, again, many listeners were recognized. It comes from Philippians chapter four, verse eight. Can you talk a little bit about why that passage ended up as the title and then. Relate that passage to what does it really mean today?
[00:14:25] Cause again, I think that is one of the struggles I know people have with scripture is it feels sometimes like it doesn't relate to today, even though I believe that it does. And I know you do as
[00:14:36] John Stange: [00:14:36] well. Yeah. Yeah. In Philippians chapter four, verse eight, the scripture makes this comment. It says finally brothers and sisters, whatever is true.
[00:14:45] So let's think about the categories it brings up here. It says, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely. Whatever is commendable, there is any moral excellence. And if there's anything praiseworthy. Dwell on [00:15:00] these things. And I'm emphasizing these as I say that, because so often it's very easy for our mind to just drift into a just a negative realm that really isn't very helpful.
[00:15:10] I have to tell you, Scott, just a few years ago, I made a decision to watch less news. I said to myself, I'm going to watch less news than ever this year. And in fact, just in general. T V I said, I, my, one of my goals a couple of years ago was to watch less TV than I ever had. And I'm at the point now where my wife and I have actually talked about, if it wasn't for football, we'd probably just get rid of the TV at this point.
[00:15:33] Because most of the time when I'd watched the news, it was basically like, Here's a half hour of everything bad that happened today, or here's a half hour of people arguing with each other over sensitive topics. And they're not going to come to any resolution. They're just going to fire you up and you will feel terrible about it.
[00:15:50] Scott Maderer: [00:15:50] It's probably just going to scream at each other about it instead of actually listening to each
[00:15:54] John Stange: [00:15:54] other. Yeah. We're constantly surrounded by all sorts of things that really [00:16:00] don't uplift the mind and really don't. Edify. And you don't have to look to find that because it'll find you. And so what we do need to do the scriptures told us.
[00:16:09]Is that the things that are true and honorable and just, and pure and lovely commendable, things like that. The is encouraging us to have minds that dwell on these things. And the truth is these are things that reflect the heart and the mind of Christ. And it's the opposite of the type of things that this world is dwelling on.
[00:16:28] This world is dwelling on selfish ambition. This world is dwelling on conflict. This world is dwelling on all sorts of unhealthy habits. And then you look at what scripture tells us. It tells us to dwell on the things that the mind of Christ is dwelling on. And the truth is when our minds are trained to start thinking about things like that, it puts our hearts in a much better spot.
[00:16:49] I actually think it has an impact on how we treat one another. I think we start to treat ourselves with much more kindness and much more grace and mercy as well because the mind [00:17:00] of Christ. B begins to become our mind and it starts to bear itself out in our day-to-day life.
[00:17:07]Scott Maderer: [00:17:07] I'm going to ask a, follow-up so dwell on these things that are good in, the list.
[00:17:13]What's. What's different about that idea than just quote being a Pollyanna or, an optimist are always looking at the bright side of life and those sorts of things that you'll hear talked about as well.
[00:17:27] John Stange: [00:17:27] Yeah. I think the difference is we're trying to anchor our thinking to the actual work of Christ.
[00:17:34] And so we're not denying that there are difficult things, when Christ came to this earth, he lived the perfect life, which means I have to admit. That I can't live the perfect life. That's a very realistic statement. That's not Pollyanna. That's one of those statements where we're saying, all right, I can't live the perfect life.
[00:17:51] So I have to admit that to myself, but I can rely on Christ who lived it for me. When Christ came to this earth, he came to die for our sin. He had toned for our sin. So that means I also [00:18:00] have to admit the fact that I'm someone who struggles with sin. And if I don't find myself admitting that I'm never going to actually seek to have a relationship with the savior who came to rescue me from that.
[00:18:10] So again, that's not just, positive thinking that goes just a, a centimeter deep, we're actually admitting something very difficult about ourselves. I have to admit that I'm a sinner who still struggles with sin, but Christ is the solution. And then even when you look at the fact that Christ Rose from the grave and he defeated sin, he defeated Satan.
[00:18:28] He defeated death. I think it's helpful for me to recognize yet again, sin exists. I can't deny it, but I have victory through Christ. Satan exists. I can't deny that fact, but I have victory over him through Christ. Death is real, but I'm not going to ultimately be someone who's defeated by death because Christ defeated death for me.
[00:18:49] So his victory becomes. My victory because he shares that victory with me. And so if I can start dwelling on those things, what ends up happening is even in the midst of very difficult [00:19:00] moments, I can look at those moments and say, all right, this is a temporary discomfort that has a permanent solution that Christ already secured for it.
[00:19:09] So whether it's an area of life, whether it's an area of of death, whether it's an area of struggle and in between. I know that Christ is the solution. And it's basically, this idea of going through life, resting in him and saying, all right, Christ, you already fix this for me. I just need to start thinking about the fact and relying on the fact that you are the one that secured the victory.
[00:19:33] Scott Maderer: [00:19:33] So as I'm going to transition a little bit and ask some questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I do that, is there anything else from the book that you'd really like to point out or share with the listeners?
[00:19:46] John Stange: [00:19:46] Yeah. One thing I'll share is that when I write, I actually like to write things that you can do something with.
[00:19:51] So the book has a lot of personal stories that I hope people find entertaining. They were certainly entertaining to write down. I'm glad they're recorded now. Cause I've spent my [00:20:00] whole life telling some of these stories. And my daughter actually said to me last night, she was like, dad, I'm glad these are in book form now that they get preserved in that way.
[00:20:06] And so I think even some of those stories will be edifying to people. But when I write, I like to write books that aren't just filled with content that you can just think about for a second and just say, all right, that goes into the mental medicine cabinet of useless trivia. I actually, I like to write things that you can do something with.
[00:20:24] And so the book is really an action takers type of book. And that's something, I think I'd point out that it's a book that I think will encourage the reader, but it's also a book that I think you can leave with feeling after you've read it. I think you could feel better equipped to do something that has direct benefit to your life, to your marriage, to your children, to your relationships.
[00:20:45] I, I think it has a direct benefit in a very practical way.
[00:20:52] Scott Maderer: [00:20:52] Awesome. Thank you so much. And I would agree. Having gone through it now and looked at it it is a book that, first off it teaches through story, [00:21:00] which is, I think, a valuable way of teaching, but then it doesn't just leave it at here's information.
[00:21:05] It asks you to take action and respond to that as well. So what are the questions that I like to ask? All my guests is of course, my brand, the podcast inspired stewardship. Stewardship is an important lens for me. And this is probably a bit of a softball question for you, but what is stewardship to you and what is the impact that it's had on your life?
[00:21:26]John Stange: [00:21:26] W when I think of stewardship in my mind I basically just think of the things that the Lord's entrusted to me and recognizing that they're not things that belong to me, that what he entrusts to me, whether it be time or talent or treasure or any category, you can think of anything. He entrusts to me actually belongs to him.
[00:21:44] I'm just a temporary caretaker of whatever belongs to him. And so I, when I was thinking about stewardship, just in line with. Knowing that we would have this conversation today. One of the things that I was thinking about I think about it a lot. I in relation to [00:22:00] time trying to be a good time steward, particularly in how I carve up my week to spend time with my wife and my children.
[00:22:06] That's something that's really important to me. And we try and be very judicious about what we put on the calendar to create time stewardship moments where We have the opportunity to spend time with one another, because we've noticed that the more we do that, the stronger our marriage and the stronger our relationship with our children happens to be.
[00:22:23] So we try and be very intentional about putting specific things on our calendar. So that happens. In fact, just this morning, I bought concert tickets. For my wife and I to go see an artist that we enjoy. And I said, Hey, all right, on this date, are we free? What do you think? She said, yeah, we're free. I was like, all right, we're going to take a drive.
[00:22:41] We're going to enjoy this time. We're going to enjoy a concert together. And now for the next six weeks, that gives us something to look forward to in the meantime another thing that's been really important to my wife and I in regard to stewardship has been financial stewardship. So I've been involved in church planting and anyone that's involved in church planting [00:23:00] recognizes that you don't automatically have guarantees that come with that.
[00:23:04] So that, and that includes guarantees on income. So there have been seasons in my pastoral ministry where. I have not been able to take an income from serving the local church because the church needed that to just fund basic operations. And that's especially true in our current context where we planted this church, it's a replant situation and there was a good, long stretch there where I wasn't able to take a paycheck.
[00:23:29] And so we learned through that process to be very careful. In the stewardship of our finances and years ago, we decided that as soon as possible, we wanted to pay off every debt, including our house so that we could say yes to what God wants us to do without worrying about debt or worrying about financial baggage hanging over our head.
[00:23:51] And we worked really hard at that and did our best to be very judicious with that. And I'm grateful to say that just under three months [00:24:00] ago we paid off our house. So for the past, Yeah, thank you for the past three. It's kinda, it feels surreal, there weren't streamers or anything, that, that came from the ceiling when we paid it off.
[00:24:11] But I have to tell you we're into month three without a mortgage payment. And it really does clear up a lot of mental space when you don't have any debt whatsoever hanging over your head. We both feel real good about it. And it was something that my wife and I did as a team. And it feels like a big accomplishment that we're able to high five each other and say, Hey, nice job on your part on this nice job on yours.
[00:24:33]And we can give glory to God and thank him for enabling us to do that. It was something that we really felt was an important aspect of stewardship that we were able to partner together to accomplish.
[00:24:44] Scott Maderer: [00:24:44] Absolutely. No. I, my wife and I have been debt free mortgage and everything for a number of years now.
[00:24:50]And I, it is surreal. It's also, I will warn you. It's also really weird. So you're going to get some weird comments too. So
[00:24:58] John Stange: [00:24:58] yeah. People don't understand it. [00:25:00] Why wouldn't you want to live saddled the debt for the rest of your life? It's Oh, I don't know. Maybe because I don't want the bank to come and take my house someday, but,
[00:25:08] Scott Maderer: [00:25:08] and it gives you freedom of choice in a way.
[00:25:10]It makes it easier to answer, when you feel called to do something that. Would put you in a financial situation that's challenging. It's easier to just say yes. Okay. We can do that. Exactly it's and to be a blessing to others. My wife and I actually have a line in our budget called spontaneous giving and we use it for if we're dining out and we see police officers dining and we choose to buy their meal.
[00:25:33] We can just do that and not worry about it, not stress about it. It's just, if we feel called to do it, we do
[00:25:39]John Stange: [00:25:39] It, and that's the most fun part, right? The generosity part. For
[00:25:42] Scott Maderer: [00:25:42] sure. Yeah. It gives you, and it gives you that flexibility and freedom to do that. Absolutely. So this is speaking of, your life and how things have been going.
[00:25:53] Let's say I could invent a machine where I could just pick you up from today and take you into the future, maybe a hundred, [00:26:00] 150 years. And you were able to look back over your life. What's the impact that you actually hope you've had on the world?
[00:26:08] John Stange: [00:26:08] The impact that I truly hope. That I've had is that I've helped people understand the heart of Christ more clearly.
[00:26:16] I'd love to introduce as many people to him as I can. He changed my life. He's changed my focus. He's given me a new way to think. And he's given me life where I was dead. And so I certainly want that to be the case in my household. I certainly want that to be the case with people that I have the privilege to interact with, but if I can help people develop a, an appreciation and an understanding for the heart of Christ to the point that they desire to have a deep and abiding relationship with him as a result, if that's what my life gets used for, I would be very grateful.
[00:26:49] That's certainly the desire that I have.
[00:26:52] Scott Maderer: [00:26:52] So what's coming next for you as you continue on this journey, what's in the work and on the hoppers as you. Keep doing what you're [00:27:00] doing, but there's also something always next
[00:27:02] John Stange: [00:27:02] to yeah, right now it's, I've been really focusing on writing and additional books coming out in future years podcasting, I host three different podcasts.
[00:27:13] And so I appreciate what you're doing here because I think podcasting is just a great medium to, to be able to communicate a message. I know that I'm a great. Consumer of podcasts. And so it's also important to me to contribute to the world of podcasts as well. And so I've been actively doing that since 2015 and what a great opportunity also have the opportunity to speak a variety of places and do webinars and courses and things like that.
[00:27:36] So many of the things I'm doing kind of fall into a communication or. Teaching realm. And I sense that's how the Lord wants me to use my life and my time. And so I'm trying to do that, but those would be the main areas that I've been focused on as of late.
[00:27:52] Scott Maderer: [00:27:52] Of course you can find out more about John and the book and more over at his site.
[00:27:58] It's desire. [00:28:00] jesus.com. Of course, I'll have a link to that in the show notes there, you can find links to his podcasts, links to his books, a blog, as well as other information, how to book him as a speaker and these sorts of things. John, is there anything else that you'd like to share with the listener?
[00:28:17] John Stange: [00:28:17] Just really grateful Scott for the privilege to be on the show. And I love hearing from people that access, the content that I'm producing. And so one of the things that I'll promise I'll do my best to promise here, right? None of us is perfect, but I promise that I really do try to reply to every email that I get.
[00:28:35] So if someone visits, desire, jesus.com and you click that contact tab and you send a message over to me I'm. Always happy to hear from people. And I do make a point to reply. So it would be lovely to be able to hear from some of your listeners. And if there's any way we can be a blessing to them, we'll certainly do our best.
[00:28:53] Scott Maderer: [00:28:53] Absolutely. Thank you so much, John. And it's been great having you here. I encourage folks to check
[00:28:58] out
[00:28:58] Scott Maderer: [00:28:58] the book check out [00:29:00] the podcast that John does and check out everything over at desire. jesus.com. Thank you for being here today.
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