SNS 188: Saturday Night Special - Interview with the President and CEO of Trueface Robby Angle

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Welcome to tonight's Saturday Night special episode 188.

[00:00:05] Robby Angle: I'm Robby Angle. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out of your calling. Having the ability to lead others in ourselves in faith is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott.

[00:00:34] And a lot of us wake up in our thirties and forties after being Christians for 20 years feeling tired and going, this doesn't feel like it's working. I've been a great Christian for 20 years and I read about peace and freedom and I don't experience it. It's because of the subtle but significant difference in our motives of our hearts.

[00:00:56] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired [00:01:00] Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the.

[00:01:29] In tonight, Saturday Night Special, I interview Robbie Engle. Robbie and I talk about faith in his journey from business to leading the true face ministry. Robbie also talks about why identity and leadership are so important to spiritual development and to life, and Robbie also shares with you about.

[00:01:48] Discipleship really has an impact on all of us. One area that a lot of folks need some help with is around the area of productivity. [00:02:00] Getting not just more things done, but actually getting the right things done can be really tough. I've got a course called Productivity for Your Passion that's designed to help you do this and then to hold you accountable and walk with you so that you can tailor productivity, not just to be getting more done, but actually getting the right things done.

[00:02:26] What's more, we take the approach of looking at your personality and how you actually look at things in the world and tailor the productivity system to your person. Because the truth is, a lot of the systems that are out there are written really well for somebody with a particular personality type. But if you have a different approach to things, they just don't work.

[00:02:48] But there's tools and techniques and approaches that you can take that will work for anyone, and we help you do that and productivity for your passion. Check it out [00:03:00] over@inspiredstewardship.com slash launch. Robbie is the President and c e o of True Face. He lives in Dawsonville, Georgia with his wife Emily, and their eight children prior to serving at True Face.

[00:03:12] Robbie served for seven years as the director of Adult ministry Environments and Men's Group for NorthPoint Community Church in Atlanta. A church founded by Andy Stanley. Prior to joining NorthPoint, Robbie and Emily worked in professional counseling and aid work for Samaritan's Purse. They served in Pakistan and Myanmar overseeing international disaster response teams.

[00:03:34] They both received a master's in community counseling from Appalachian State University. Robbie also holds a business degree from the University of Florida and a certificate in Biblical studies from Dallas Theological Seminary. Welcome to the show,

[00:03:47] Robby Angle: Robbie. Hey, it's good to be here, Scott. Thanks for.

[00:03:50] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I talked a little bit in your, in the intro about some of your journey, but especially here [00:04:00] lately, where you've moved over to true face, what. Tell us a little bit more about unpack, connecting those dots in reverse. Looking back at your journey, what brought you from where you started to where you are today?

[00:04:13] Robby Angle: Yeah, I have I've been all over the place. It is an adventure of following Jesus and he has led me to places I didn't expect. So I was a business finance major in undergrad thinking the business world was the toughest ministry field. I was gonna go do that. Pretty wired wired as an entrepreneur.

[00:04:31] Then I ended up in international disaster response work with Samaritan's Purse. Then I became a professional counselor. And then I ended up working at a church, which I never thought I'd work at. And overseeing spiritual formation discipleship that happens in the small groups in the communities like most of our churches.

[00:04:48] We gather together in smaller groups to connect relationally and grow spiritually where we can be more known and love. So I was a small group's nerd for a while and we were [00:05:00] using. Two books by this ministry called True Face, called Boze Cafe and the Cure, the tagline of the cure is what if God isn't who you think he is and neither are you.

[00:05:10] That's the essence of how we see God, how we see ourselves, and the core of who we are as leaders. So I was over 800 small groups and I had 800 leaders, which were shaping the spiritual formation, discipleship outcomes of the church. How healthy were those leaders? That's contingent on their view of God and view of self.

[00:05:30] So I was using the two books by these guys in True at True Face from Phoenix. And I bought enough boxes of books that eventually they called me and said, who are you? And I said, I'm a huge fan. And a couple years after I met 'em, they said, Hey, we're getting older. We're looking for somebody new to steward this message of grace and identity and trust.

[00:05:52] Are you interested? And I said, no. And then God said yes. And so I've been here at True Faith for about three and a half years, a [00:06:00] 28 year old nonprofit ministry that helps people experience deeper relationships with God and. You

[00:06:06] Scott Maderer: know let's back up a little bit and unpack a few things.

[00:06:10] You, you mentioned business major, thought business was the ministry field that you should go into, ended up working for a church later. Didn't think you'd ever do that. I think a lot of times with calling and purpose and direction and all of these things that, that we talk about and struggle with as individuals and within the church.

[00:06:28] Looking forward, it's hard to see a path, but looking backward sometimes it's easier to connect the dots. How do you think God was setting things up and connecting the dots for you through that

[00:06:38] Robby Angle: path? Oh man. It's amazing how awesome my father loves me. Like he knows how he made me and knew what I needed.

[00:06:47] And at the time it felt God, why am I a ping pong ball through all this? But I look back at Pakistan spending over a year in Pakistan in oh 5 0 6 after the earthquake, and God knew the depths of my [00:07:00] pride and my issues of earning, striving. For his love and the depths of my pride that tried to earn his love.

[00:07:08] And that was a season of breaking and a paradigm shift of the how I saw God in myself. Then I ended up in counseling for five years, professional and practicing counseling, and he knew that was this, that was my seminary on how to love people because I needed to practice for five years how to love people because I'm a type A.

[00:07:30] Ate Enneagram and I am not good at empathy or love or patience or any of these things. And I ended up in counseling and had to practice for five years. And and then at North Point church just. The amazing combo of my the unique identity that God's given me and the passions he's given me to care for hearts and lead them to experience the fullness of what God has to offer.

[00:07:58] I gotta do that in [00:08:00] incredible scale. So it's, it is amazing in hindsight what I needed and what for shaping me and pruning me into whatever he has next for me and also in preparing me. So let's

[00:08:12] Scott Maderer: unpack a little bit. You obviously have a faith background and have a deep faith. How do you think your faith journey paralleled and intersected with physical journey through all of these things?

[00:08:28] Robby Angle: Yeah, I I've had a pretty authentic faith from a young age, like 10 years old, so I'm high. I'm Robert Bruce Engle, iii, firstborn son high drive, high achiever, all that a-hole stuff. And so I've been a great Christian. I, here we go, president of F c a, leading all this stuff. And for US driven Christians, there's that low grade whisper in the back of your head of if you wanna make your life significant and purposeful, you'll do awesome stuff for God and God's the only thing that matters and life is short.

[00:08:58] So let's go us high driving. [00:09:00] Christians say in our head and Sunday school teachers in our head are whispering. What that looks like is either Billy Graham or a missionary in Africa for the awesome Christians, right? And Here I am at 24 in Northern Pakistan, Al-Qaeda territory, doing amazing missions with Samaritan's Purse, and everything was amazing and it was all of my hopes and dreams to do awesome stuff for God and to address my fears of not being an awesome life for God.

[00:09:29] But on paper everything was perfect, but internally I was a mess, and that was such a gift of God to say. Stop. I love you. I love how I made you and your drive, but I'm good. I don't need you to do any of this for me and Scott. That was a breaking disorienting season that taught me, that changed my paradigm of how I saw God myself and I moved from pleasing and striving into trusting.

[00:09:59] And [00:10:00] that has changed everything about my faith journey. And really I've been working on that ever since. Regardless of the role I'm in. .

[00:10:09] Scott Maderer: And you mentioned too that the a lot of that had to do with your identity and how you saw yourself in that relationship with God. And earlier you mentioned when you were talking about the true face and the cure and some of that and the work you were doing in the church with leaders, that a lot of the struggle was about the identity and the struggles the leaders are worth having.

[00:10:28] The what if God's not who you think he is, and what if you aren't either part . Yeah. Why? Why? Yeah. Why do you think Christians have that struggle around that identity that we have in the relationship with God

[00:10:44] Robby Angle: B? Because pride is the chief sin and pride says I can. And therefore we are just like the Galatians.

[00:10:52] And he says, you foolish Galatians, you started out in the faith. What happened? You went back to works. We do that because that's how we're made. And the chief sin of [00:11:00] pride says I can, I should, I will for God. It he, what he did on the cross made me right and now I need to X, Y, and Z. And so I think all of us struggle with this, and this is rooted in.

[00:11:14] Our view of God himself. And I'll unpack Pakistan for a minute because that points to what happened on paper. Everything is amazing and I'm sitting on the roof of Pakistan eight months into this thing and I'm just so disoriented cuz it's all that I'd hoped to be. Awesome, do awesome stuff for God, which we long for significance and purpose.

[00:11:33] And if that's kingdom work all the better. And so why am I feeling so messed up inside and disconnected from. And I felt like him saying, RO smiling at me, going, I love your drive and achievement, but Robbie, stop. I don't need you to do anything for me. And I'd rather you go back to the states and be a janitor in a high school and aware of my love for you for 10 minutes a day than doing 15 hours of amazing ministry for me.[00:12:00]

[00:12:00] And Scott, if you knew me at that moment, I was like, no. God please, if that's you, I'll, I will do. Don't

[00:12:06] Scott Maderer: ask me for that. Please be last night's pizza, . I

[00:12:09] Robby Angle: will do anything. I will do anything except nothing for you because my fears of not living, life of purpose, significance, all that stuff which is rooted in I can earn, achieve, be right with God, and then in that next moment, It was so shocking my response to not doing that, that I felt like him smiling, going, Robbie, that's the ceiling of your experience, of grace of experiencing love of what I did.

[00:12:37] So you don't, and it's just so much, it's just so much easier for me and a lot of us to earn than receive. And that had to do with how I saw God as disappointed with me waiting for me to do better, be better. And not, no, he had taken care of it. He loves me and he likes me, and he's made me a new son, a, a saint.[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] And therefore, my identity as a saint versus a sinner, striving to be a saint changes everything. And this is the crux of our identity for Christians, and this is for us as Christians. And I was a professional and That takes a lot of focus and is at the center of my view of God and myself, and I've been processing that ever since in a deep way of which the ministry of True Faith taught a lot about.

[00:13:25] Scott Maderer: One of the things that I see a lot of struggle around in the church and I'm just curious, your take on it, is the struggle that we have between seek. Unity and seeking uniformity. There's a lot of differences in different denominations, different beliefs, different backgrounds and I see a lot of arguing about I'm loving and accepting and good to everyone as long as they agree with me.

[00:13:58] Yes. It's how [00:14:00] it comes across, whether that's intended or not. That's the unintentional message. How do you see that, that struggle that we have playing out between. Unity and uniformity and how that overlaps with what you're talking about right now. Cuz I think it does in terms of the identity that we're struggling with.

[00:14:19] Robby Angle: I love that. And I think. Identity. There's two dynamics of identity that we share as Jesus followers. There is shared identity. You and I have the d n A of Christ in us. Aone of justification, righteousness. What happened on the cross is we are imparted with the righteousness of Christ. Now, most Christians some of them don't believe that, and I'll get to the unity uniformity thing because of this, but we.

[00:14:48] In our shared identity as Christians, do we see ourselves as a saint who occasionally sins, or a sinner striving to be a saint? Most of us in church, we have a low [00:15:00] grade assumption of we're sinners. We have turned from God, we have broken relationship. We need to follow this equation of more right behavior plus less wrong behavior in order to equal godliness in closeness with God.

[00:15:12] That. Infused in a lot of our upbringings as Christians, but that is anything but biblical. What happens is Jesus says no. You can't do more right and less wrong. That's why I did it for you. And now Christ in you, that is your new identity. And so you are a son of God. You are a sinner. You are not a sinner who striving to be a saint.

[00:15:34] You are now a saint. You are a saint who occasionally sins. So now I see. As a loving father who I'm perfectly right with. Now, that's our shared identity that we have, that we, that is so critical that so many of us miss. And now our specific identity is that Scott. I love you and I like you, and I made you as a right arm ligament [00:16:00] who asks great questions and has a platform and cares about stewardship and using Words and Friends to process following me, and that's your part of the Body of Christ.

[00:16:11] Robbie, I've given you this like desire for authentic relationships of following Jesus with a community of men and women. Like we have our unique, our specific identities that God has given us that are equal and beautiful reflection of him as the body of Christ. And so I'm a right arm ligament. You're a left kneecap, whatever as a body.

[00:16:35] We are made in the image of God in our shared. Identities, and we are beautifully unique in our specific identities. And so the unity versus uniformity, a lot of unity says, be like me. I'm a right arm ligament. And that's what Unity says. But. Oh, the uniformity. I'm getting that mixed up.

[00:16:54] Uniformity means let's all form and be the right arm ligament, but unity means I see the Imago [00:17:00] Day, the image of God, Christ in you. In my new friend Scott, and we. The difference. Ethnicity, culture, gifting is the beautiful part of the body of Christ, of which God is moving through for his kingdom purposes.

[00:17:17] And so that's a big difference and is connected to our specific identity more than our shared identity under that umbrella of who we are as Christians and Jesus followers.

[00:17:27] Scott Maderer: Okay. . I like that. . So the, one of the areas you know, that you've worked a lot in is around these small groups and church leaders and church leadership and you're still with True Face.

[00:17:40] You're doing that same, not the same way, but you're doing that same calling. How do you I think a lot of times we see our leadership in the church and then we see the things we do outside of. But we see them as separate domains, separate magistrate non-overlapping. And at how do [00:18:00] you see the work we do in leadership and discipleship and identity work and all of those things in the church overlapping with the.

[00:18:08] The rest of our lives, so to speak.

[00:18:11] Robby Angle: Gosh, that question triggers me and drives me crazy because it is such a byproduct of our Western Christian Church type things. And the essence of some of the concern compared to looking at the New Testament. If you're paid to be a Christian, no different, no better.

[00:18:29] You're part of the body in that assignment. And remember, so let me differentiate. Identity in regards to shared identity and specific identity is very different than assignment. Assignment is. What are we doing? Am I a. Coder, am I a teacher? Am I a getting paid to be a pastor? And so then those of us who get paid to be Christians at church, we try to, we, there's this honor culture of pastor Robbie.

[00:18:56] And what that does is. Confuse my assignment [00:19:00] with my identity as a pastor, and that's why it's so difficult in spiritual leadership and why assignments, which is just a what we're doing messes with the who and why, who we are and why we're doing it, but, and so professional Christians, that's where it gets weird with identity stuff for those in ministry.

[00:19:18] But it also it hurts the person going to church because it's I'm, I get to abdicate and pa go passive because I'm not a professional Christian. And a lot of my business friends will say I'm trying to get through this in order to do more ministry. And I'm like whoa. First of all, God doesn't need us to do anything.

[00:19:36] He's done it all. We, he desires us to abide it in him, first of all. And you get to represent Jesus as an electrician just as much as I, and you're a left kneecap in how you're a part of the kingdom work there. And so that question I love Scott because we cannot, we are all part of the kingdom of God, which is the range of God's effective will [00:20:00] because we have the Holy Spirit in us, and therefore God will take care of the outcomes and the fruit of the Spirit is his fruit and responsibility.

[00:20:07] We have equal responsibility and opportunity with the spirit in us, whether I'm an electrician, a software guy, a teacher getting paid to do ministry full-time. All of it's equal and a blessing because we're part of kingdom work. And so the lines between a Sunday environment where we gather together to encourage and edify each other and the kingdom of God that we're a part of all the time, and the community of believers as we gather together in and out of a church building is what it looks like to be a follower of Jesus.

[00:20:39] And what I see in the New Testament, which just has gotten confusing with some of the structures and systems that we've put in place. It's go to church on Sunday. That's where I do the God

[00:20:46] stuff. Oh my gosh, . That is not what I read or what I see is possible. Yeah.

[00:20:53] Scott Maderer: And I agree with you, but at the same time I see that struggle.

[00:20:58] I've lived that struggle, yeah. [00:21:00] It shows up in my life all the time. , yep. Remembering to, to invite Jesus into the relationship. You know when you're at the restaurant eating or having a cup of coffee, and you notice in that the waitress is having a rough day. And whether you invite her into prayer or just pray for her either one, but those little things like that, my wife is much better at it than I am.

[00:21:28] Yes. I freely admit to that. Yes. And that teach that speaks to our belief and confession is just. What is our truth? My truth by most of my actions is that spiritual stuff is more important than how I interact with the lady at Walmart checking me out. A and. The opportunity for Christ in me to love whoever I come in contact with as part of whatever God has in store.

[00:21:53] Robby Angle: I think he's really invested and involved in the unique impact that each of us gets to have [00:22:00] with the people that only we intersect with, which is amazing Kingdom work. And God can move regardless of the situation of whether you're doing a podcast of thousands of people or if you're at a restaurant and you get.

[00:22:14] Be a little more present and loving to the waitress. Or if you're speaking on a Sunday morning, it's all kingdom work because it's Christ in us that's gonna do something through that. And which is so freeing and that's a light yolk. And the what we all get to be a part of, regardless of the assignment our identity is primary to that.

[00:22:35] Scott Maderer: Discipleship is one of those words that, that gets bandied about. And Christians talk a lot about discipleship. We should be in discipleship, we should do discipleship, we should, whatever, a adverb or verb or that you wanna put around it. And yet I think that's also an area of struggle within the church today.

[00:22:55] So I'm gonna ask you to do two things. One is define the word discipleship. Because again, I'm a big [00:23:00] believer. Def definition of terms, and then unpack a little bit about why do you think that is such a struggling area for us in the church today as

[00:23:10] Robby Angle: Christians?

[00:23:11] I love this and thanks for putting me on the spot to give definitions, . So you're welcome. I'm gonna warn you. I'm gonna steal from Jesus. He def I, this is how I think he defined discipleship. First he said, follow me, and so in, in a broad sense, it's becoming the process of forming into the likeness of Christ, which is in me, and therefore, I'm maturing into who I already am.

[00:23:34] That's a, that's. Mine. That messes with our mind of, am I striving, trying to be something, or am I maturing into who I already am as Christ in me? That's that paradigm shift. Of I'm a saint who occasionally sins or a sinner striving to be a saint. Now, Jesus said the definition of discipleship in John, I think 13, 34 or 35.

[00:23:57] By this, they'll know that you're my disciples. By the way, you [00:24:00] love one. And so discipleship is gonna be evidenced by how we love one another. And right before that, he said, this is it. Love God and love others. That's the point. That's what I made possible, which is by his grace, he made this possible a relationship with him vertically.

[00:24:15] A new relationship with ourselves is saints our new identity. And that af that is the hinge point that affects all of our horizontal relationships, and therefore that is discipleship evidenced by how we love one another. And following Jesus is rooted in what he says. Is it John 17 or 15 of Abide?

[00:24:36] That's it like. Nothing to do, nothing to strive, and so abide. Now that segues into what the church says and does, which is confusing and different than that. The church a lot of times will say, learn more. Go back to the equation of religiosity, which says more right behavior plus less wrong behavior equals godliness seed.

[00:24:58] See, that's very different [00:25:00] than what Jesus said of abide. Follow me. That means abide. And the fruit of the spirit, which is me will be a byproduct of that. A love joy piece, by the way. Everything you're longing for and that love will be a byproduct of the fruit of the spirit because I've made us right?

[00:25:17] And that will be loving other people. And that's the definition of discipleship by the way, you love one another. And a lot of discipleship. Discipleship is. Do better, sin less, no more Bible memorize more scripture. Even though all those things are good things it is trusting, abiding, and the byproduct of that is always stewarding of representing and maturing into who he is in me and the expression of Christ.

[00:25:46] Uniquely in Scott, uniquely in Ravi, in our specific I. Blesses and is part of kingdom work as we intersect with people, and that's the byproduct of the foundation of truth, of our relationship with God. So all of [00:26:00] that is the foundation or makes sense from a theoretical idea. Practically, how does that show up in our life?

[00:26:10] Yeah. I think that is where we go to our design of, we're designed to grow through the context of relationships and As disciples maturing into who he already made us to be.

[00:26:22] I believe we cannot do that individually and independently. And therefore the key catalyst for my spiritual formation, discipleship, whatever word you wanna say is, am I in relationships with other Jesus followers as the body of Christ in order to mature into who he already says we are. Because in community we grow and mature in ways.

[00:26:46] He designed us for, we long for, and is the only, is the catalytic the key way for us to become disciples is are we, do we have community? Do we have relationships [00:27:00] where we have objectivity? Where Christ in Scott speaks into my life. You get to support me in my strengths and you get to protect me and my weaknesses where we're gathering smaller together.

[00:27:11] That's why I'm a small, I love small groups because it's just an environment. That is more conducive to practice love, which is discipleship because we're more known and therefore more loved in smaller environments. So it's just an environment that's a catalyst to practice being Jesus followers, which is practicing love, which is discipleship.

[00:27:32] Scott Maderer: So I've got another one that might throw you for a loop but. I think you'll, I think you'll be okay with it. So one of the topics that listeners to the show have heard me talk about before, and I've touched on it several times and I think it's showing up in the conversation we're having this today is I think a lot of times in, and I think in part it's a Western culture thing.

[00:27:55] We have a tendency to try to put things into categories of either or [00:28:00] it's this or it's that. And for me, a lot of the theology of God that shows up is both and , yeah. It's not. No, Scott, it's not have a relationship with me or have a relationship with others, or have a relationship with yourself.

[00:28:18] It's, yes, , you do all of that, or it's not live in grace or do works to earn your way into heaven. It's yes, not because you're earning your way into heaven, but it's gonna show up. How do you see that playing out in terms of the difference between what we try to do in categorizing versus what's showing up in the theology of both and

[00:28:39] Robby Angle: see that is the essence.

[00:28:44] Religion and the struggle we're talking about here because I do think there's a difference in priority here because a lot of my life what's the cart and what's the horse, what's driving it? A lot of my life [00:29:00] this is so subtle, but so significant cuz it's changed everything about my faith journey and understanding of God.

[00:29:07] You foolish Galatians, it's been around for 2000 years. He says you started out in faith and then you went to earning, sending less, doing better in order to be right with me. That immediately goes back to my pride of what I can do to be right with God, and so I focus on works. That will lead to relationship or grace.

[00:29:27] It's either grace or truth. So I'll focus on truth works because that keeps me in control and more right behavior, less wrong behavior equals godliness, and that will lead towards a better relationship with God. And a lot of us wake up in our thirties and forties after being Christians for 20 years feeling tired and going.

[00:29:44] This doesn't feel like it's working. I've been a great Christian for 20 years and I read about peace and freedom and I don't experience it. It's because of the subtle but significant difference in our motives of our hearts. See what happened in Pakistan. I came to the end and [00:30:00] I realized it was the wrong equation.

[00:30:03] But out of his grace, he has made me right with. , he's given me a new identity and there's nothing more or less I could do to change my relationship with God. Do I really believe that? Because if I really believe that, then it, that's a light yolk, and that does not mean I'm gonna sit around in a con contemplative state and be with God all day and just not do anything.

[00:30:25] No. The outcome is always what Jesus said is love. And so love is actionable and courageous and difficult, and so it's easier for me to love outta my own effort. But to ex to receive his love. The overflow of that is always a radical, bold, courageous love, which can look like works just like I was doing radical, courageous love in Pakistan as a missionary.

[00:30:52] But it was a it was subtle but significantly different in my motive. And here's another way to say what I'm talking about, cuz we wrestle with this and don't know [00:31:00] how to put words. The first chapter in the Cure, which changed, gave words to this that changed my life, written by John Lynch, bill Thro and Bruce McNichol.

[00:31:08] The first chapter says, I come to a fork in the road. It's an allegorical story, and there's a sign in the road that says this way towards pleasing God and this way towards trusting God. And where those lead the path towards pleasing God leads us to the Room of good intentions, which has a lot of awesome Christians in it.

[00:31:26] The path towards trusting God leads us to the room of grace, and they are very different experiences of this faith journey that we experience as Christians. And the motive of our hearts to please or to trust captures the essence of this and there. That's why. By grace through faith, and the outcome of that is always works, works.

[00:31:46] That scripture that's about works is taken outta context so much in the meta narrative of the New Testament in the Bible, the works is always a byproduct of the grace and Christ in us. That's always the outcome and [00:32:00] that is evidence of faith, but not, that's not the horse before the car the.

[00:32:05] Horse is his grace Christ in me, the cart will always be works. And my motive, my view of God is all it just changes everything.

[00:32:16] Scott Maderer: What's which is the driving force versus what's the result? And yeah,

[00:32:22] Robby Angle: so it's both and, but it's significant difference because I will hijack that or order every day.

[00:32:26] Scott Maderer: Yeah. Order matters. The. But I think, again, I think we struggle with that because it's I agree with you a hundred percent in, in terms of, and it really does come back to pride and control, yes. because if I do it the other way, It's on me and that's good, right?

[00:32:44] It's good that it's on me cuz I can do something right. It's my control. It's way

[00:32:48] Robby Angle: more comfortable. I wake up every day preferring to earn God's love, do better, sin less, because that keeps me in control, which pride says I can. Humility says I can't. [00:33:00] Humility allows me to trust God, to let him meet those needs in me instead of striving and earning in myself.

[00:33:05] Dude, yes, you are speaking my truth of every day I wake up more comfortable and I would prefer to just earn God's love and get it and. And that's why I missed out so much and of what this peace and this freedom that Jesus made possible in my life is now. Since that time of getting grace, I haven't sat around and done nothing.

[00:33:25] I've been a part of some amazing ministry impacts and but that the yoke, the heart, the motive is so different and it's hard to put words to this, but man, it's.

[00:33:37] Scott Maderer: And another thing that I've used to talk about this and again, I think we're speaking the same language, using different words maybe, but the same idea is so often we try to make being driven or active, if you wanna use that word, and contentment, and we say those are opposites.

[00:33:54] You can't be driven and content. And it's no, actually those aren't opposites at all. , [00:34:00] that's right. If your heart is right and if the reason that you're doing these activities is right it's not, then it's okay. It gets to our motive. And that was the difference between the Galatians, the concern of Galatians.

[00:34:15] Robby Angle: That was the difference between the Pharisees. The motive of the Pharisees was off, but they were awesome. They were killer Christians. Doing better, being better. They were stewarding, doing a lot of good works, their role in their knowledge well. But the source of our, how we see God and see ourselves is really changes everything.

[00:34:33] What that stewardship outcome looks like, which is why I love what you talk about, but and that, that inflection point just changes everything, in the piece. The lightness of the yoke of what we steward, not in necessarily the fruit or how much is accomplished. Yeah.

[00:34:50] Scott Maderer: I'm still tired.

[00:34:51] I'm just tired for a different reason. .

[00:34:53] Robby Angle: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[00:34:55] Scott Maderer: So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I [00:35:00] ask those questions is there anything else you'd like to share about the work you do or what you're doing over at True Face or anything else?

[00:35:09] Robby Angle: Yeah. There's a question that a lot of us wrestle with. What if God isn't who you think he is and neither are. This is the source of all of us, and we want to help people live into their true identity. So we develop resources for that. And you're not meant to do it alone, and you can't do it alone. What we're meant to grow in the context of relationships, but finding relationships that actually lead to spiritual growth are really hard to come by.

[00:35:37] So if you're listening to this and you're going, okay I long for more belonging, more love, more intimacy and relationships that I believe is a key component towards my spiritual formation. De discernment, all this stuff that's hard and it's not easy. So there are tools and there're out there to help you deepen your relationships, which is what you're designed for and what is [00:36:00] critical.

[00:36:00] So you cannot do it alone. And it takes courage and humility to pursue relationships with those in your life and develop those relationships and it is worth it. And so valuing and prioritizing relationships is one of those catalysts that I want to make sure we reminded of. And. Applying and processing all of this deep theological stuff that Scott and I have been talking about.

[00:36:25] We can't sort that out in ourselves. We're not meant to, that's why we're built for community as the body of Christ and Scott as a right knee cap, and me as a left arm ligament get to help each other be a part of that.

[00:36:36] Scott Maderer: My brand has inspired stewardship, and you've mentioned stewardship several times as we're talking, but that's another one of those words that I've heard over the years.

[00:36:44] Lots of people, even Christians, use that word and mean different things. Yeah. So what does the word stewardship mean to you, and what does the impact of that understanding had on your life? Yeah. ,

[00:36:56] Robby Angle: I I have very high responsibility [00:37:00] drive achiever. So stewardship has been a weighty word for me of we have two longings to experience love and significance.

[00:37:08] So significance is connected to stewardship. How do we steward the time, talents, treasures God has given us for what matters? I, so what has changed is that I carried the responsibility of that a little bit more than trusting God with the gifts he's given me. And so it's, bec stewardship means aligning my knowing, my unique design and specific identity, and aligning that and, In adventure with his kingdom work in that.

[00:37:41] So stewarding my unique design with what he's doing and I get to follow him and as he does kingdom work, which is just so fun and so exciting. This is my

[00:37:52] Scott Maderer: favorite question that I get to ask every guest. Let's say I've invented this magic machine and I've able to pluck you from where you are [00:38:00] today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, 200 years.

[00:38:04] And through the power of this machine, you're able to look back on your whole. And see all of the impacts, all of the connections, all of the ripples that you've left behind in the world. W what impact do you hope you've left behind

[00:38:17] Robby Angle: that I loved really well in a way that led to transformation and the ripple of those people, loving people really well.

[00:38:23] There's a principle that I live my life by more time with fewer people equals greater kingdom. Do I really believe that and is my life and my calendar reflecting that belief that more time with fewer people equals greater kingdom impact. And after being a missionary in Northern Pakistan working at a megachurch with making huge impact and now leading a, a national nonprofit, Nope.

[00:38:53] It's more time with fewer people equals greater kingdom impact. That's the impact I the legacy I wanna live and the ripple [00:39:00] of what will be said about me and all of us get the opportunity to do that. And that is the good kingdom work of love God and love other people.

[00:39:08] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next? What's on the roadmap for you as you continue through 2023

[00:39:14] Robby Angle: through 2023?

[00:39:17] I like that question cuz I'm st. I have stopped thinking five and 10 years. But 2023 I think about, and there's a nine month group discipleship initiative to help people pour their cup into others, or for churches to develop a leadership pipeline around this stuff we're talking about because, Discipleship, intentionally investing in others, pouring your cup into others.

[00:39:44] If you lined up a hundred men and women from a hundred different churches and said, how's your disciple making going? Most of us would say terrible cuz I don't know what to do and who to do it with. So we or my what? . That's right. So we developed a tool, a nine month framework. [00:40:00] It's free, it's called the True Face Journey to help equip churches and individuals to pour their cup intentionally into seven or eight guys or girls, or three to four couples over nine months, meet once a month.

[00:40:12] And so this year I'm, I think that's gonna be a game. In a lot of people's lives of really wrestling with these things that we, you talk about on inspired stewardship, and so I want to focus on equipping people to pour their company to others through the true face journey.

[00:40:33] You can

[00:40:33] Scott Maderer: find out more about Robbie over at on LinkedIn as Robbie Engel or find out more about True Face and the work that he does with them on Twitter, Instagram, he's on, on YouTube. All of those under True Face. You can find the site for True Face over@trueface.org. Dot org. He also has a podcast under true Face as well.

[00:40:55] So you can take a look for that wherever great podcasts are found. Of course, I'll have links to all of those [00:41:00] things over in the show notes as well. Robbie, anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:41:05] Robby Angle: Yep. He doesn't need you to do anything more, but he likes you and he loves you right where you're at, and Christ in you as you abide in him, you'll get the fruit of that and what you get to steward will be rich and plentiful.

[00:41:20] And I pray that as a blessing over whoever's listening to this, that you experience the peace and the freedom of being a part of kingdom work. And that's a light yolk and an awesome thing to steward.

[00:41:36] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this please do us a favor. Go over to inspired [00:42:00] stewardship.com/itunes.

[00:42:02] Rate all one word, iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.