SNS 153: Saturday Night Special – Interview with Cross Cultural expert Joshua Johnson

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Welcome to tonight's Saturday night, special episode, 150.

[00:00:05] Joshua Johnson: I'm Joshua Johnson. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling, having the ability to find your purpose and calling is key.

[00:00:22] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this. The inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

[00:00:31] Frederick beaker says the place that God has called you is where your deep gladness in the world's deep hunger meat. And I've always loved that because I know that place and that trajectory is the place where you could find your maximum impact, but it really. The place that God has given you joy and gladness and hunger and thirst and the world, and what is the need?

[00:00:53] Scott Maderer: Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become [00:01:00] the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling. In the inspired stewardship podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world

[00:01:18] in tonight's Saturday night special. I talk with Joshua Johnson, Joshua and I talk with you about the power of recognizing and understanding different cultures. Joshua. And I also talk about how his faith and that journey intersected and developed as he grew to understand other cultures and Joshua also shares with you how this growth can help you understand your own calling.

[00:01:45] One area that a lot of folks need some help with is around the area of productivity. Getting not just more things done, but actually getting the right things done can be [00:02:00] really tough. I've got a course called productivity for your passion. That's designed to help you do this and then to hold you accountable and walk with you so that you can tailor productivity, not just to be getting more done, but actually getting the right things done.

[00:02:20] What's more, we take the approach of looking at your personality and how you actually look at things in the world and tailor the productivity system to your personality. Because the truth is a lot of the systems that are out there are written really well for somebody with a particular personality type.

[00:02:38] But if you have a different approach to things, they just don't work, but there's tools and techniques and approaches that you can take that will work for anyone. And we help you do that and productivity for your passion. Check it out over@inspiredstewardship.com slash launch. Joshua is the executive director of all [00:03:00] nations, Kansas city, a missions training and sending organization that oversees church planting, working in 25 countries.

[00:03:08] He is also a core team member, a coach, and a consultant for five Q an organization that unlocks and releases the potential of fivefold ministry and the body of Christ as part of the MD, a training ecosystem, which is in turn part of the movement leaders collect. He also serves on the elder team for the nav church in Kansas city.

[00:03:29] And is the host of the podcast shifting culture. Joshua spent seven years in the middle east in Asia catalyzing movements to Jesus and saw many Muslim background people get baptized, say yes to following Jesus and start simple reproducing Jesus communities emits their own culture. He loves to coach and train others to ignite movements to Jesus.

[00:03:51] He loves movie. Traveling the world being surrounded by nature and spending time on the golf course. Joshua lives in Kansas city with his wife, [00:04:00] Meredith who leads all nations, Kansas city. They have one son, Luke, welcome to the show.

[00:04:05] Joshua Johnson: Joshua. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to here. Absolutely.

[00:04:10] Scott Maderer: So we talked a little bit in the intro, but I wanted dive into it a little deeper.

[00:04:14] You, you spent some time in the middle east as a missionary doing mission

[00:04:19] Joshua Johnson: work there. Yep. Would you

[00:04:21] Scott Maderer: share a little bit more about what you learned from that experience?

[00:04:26] Joshua Johnson: Yeah. I learned a whole heck of a lot. I'll tell you that much. Anytime you do any cross-cultural work, you're bound to learn something either by your stupid mistakes that you make or by the things that you do well.

[00:04:40] One of the things way of learning stupid mistakes. Exactly. Exactly. We actually learn a lot from our failure. But I think we, one of the things is we really have more in common with people of different cultures, of different ethnicities, different languages than we in different religions than we actually [00:05:00] think we do.

[00:05:00] And in that setting. I learned that I need to shut up and listen, I need to start to ask questions. When I enter into a different place or a different culture, I need to sit with people and eat meals with people so that I know who I'm talking to that coming with an agenda from the very beginning is actually not gonna be very beneficial.

[00:05:23] And so that's for anybody going into a different place and culture if you have an agenda with your business or with missionary work or whatever work it is, the it's not gonna work unless you actually know who you're talking to. So yeah. Sit, listen, ask good questions and learn as much as you can before you dive in.

[00:05:46] Scott Maderer: The irony is and the Lister won't see it, but I'll hold it up where you can see it. So I have a card that sits underneath the monitor on my computer that says, ask more questions. That's literally what it says [00:06:00] is my reminder to myself to don't talk so much, ask some questions. .

[00:06:04] Joshua Johnson: Yes, that's right.

[00:06:06] And I think for me I like to be on the end where I'm asking the questions because I get to learn something. And whatever comes outta my mouth is not not as important as , when you're on the asking questions. And

[00:06:22] Scott Maderer: And we've talked before, so I work as a coach and of course my background I have a C.

[00:06:28] Faith background, but I actually work with a lot of clients in overseas and other places yeah. And different religious backgrounds. And usually we figure out that we got a lot more in common than we got different. Yeah. It doesn't have to be as as different as sometimes people I think, make it out to be.

[00:06:46] Joshua Johnson: Yep. And I think if you're doing any work anywhere, I think formulas. Work . And so we often say here's your seven step program to success. And [00:07:00] there's always gonna be need for adaptation individualization contextualization on the front ends when you're actually dealing with people because there are seven and a half billion people on the planet, and there are seven and a half billion different people on the planet.

[00:07:15] We all come with our hopes and fears and dreams and desire. That are different than one another. So all these seven step programs, although they are good structures, just keep them as a good structure and scaffolding and not the step by step rigid program that you need to succeed. So when you think

[00:07:38] Scott Maderer: back to that period in your life what's one memory or event that you can share that kind of brought home to you?

[00:07:46] Some of those lessons that you learned

[00:07:48] Joshua Johnson: For me I'll share a story of somebody that a Syrian refugee, a story of this woman coming across the border. [00:08:00] From Syria into another country. She was a widow with five kids. She didn't have anything when she arrived in the country.

[00:08:09] And our job was to supply some mattresses and pillows and a small little stove for her to cook and a heater and some blankets. And then we kept. Visiting, but the first time we ever visited her, we really what do you say to somebody that has gone through a traumatic experience like that?

[00:08:31] What do you say to people that have gone through things that you'll, you've never experienced? And so where is that? That point of empathy? How can you relate to a story? And so for me, I always, I go back to scripture and I wanted to say, what does Jesus have to say in the midst of this story? Because Jesus everybody likes Jesus.

[00:08:55] Jesus is amazing. So we share a story of Jesus about Jesus. [00:09:00] Being asleep in a boat while his disciples are in the middle of a storm and they're all freaked out and they're waking Jesus up and says, Hey Jesus, don't you care about us. We're gonna drown. And Jesus says, oh, you have little faith. He just stands up.

[00:09:15] He says to the storm be still. And the winds and the waves were quieted. And. For there was a lesson for the disciples, but there was a lesson for us in our life where, you know, in the midst of chaos and a storm there's some calm and there's hope and there's presence to be found in the middle of that.

[00:09:35] And so we went back home. We came back a week later and she told us, Hey, I love this Jesus story. I want to know more stories of Jesus, but first I wanna tell you a dream that I had. And so she said, In my dream, I was sitting in a circle with my family and across from me was Jesus. He said Sarah said that in Jesus I [00:10:00] saw I've been in a church or two in my life.

[00:10:02] And so I know what Jesus looks like. He had long hair, beautiful eyes and a beard, and he was holding aside. And so I said, in my dream, Jesus looked at me and said, I want what is rightfully mine? And she looked at us and said, what do you think that means? And this is where all of our training comes in of saying, okay, I could actually tell her what we think that this means.

[00:10:25] But instead of us giving the answer to her we said can we ask God? And. Have him tell you what Jesus meant when he says I want what is rightfully mine and whatever you believe about listening, prayer or God speaking. This is a point of faith for us of jumping in and saying, is this going to work God?

[00:10:49] And so we did that. We asked God, we said, God, can you show sh Sarah, what Jesus meant when he says, I want what is rightfully mine? And so about a minute passed [00:11:00] after we prayed and it was silent and we look up and tears are streaming down Sarah's face. And we said, Sarah, did you hear anything? Do you sense anything?

[00:11:09] What do you think God is saying to you? And she. He wants to refresh and renew my heart. And I think that's just a beautiful thing that what God wants to do is said, yes, I want you as mine. But really what I want to do is refresh and renew your heart. I wanna restore your heart. I wanna make it new and make it whole again.

[00:11:33] And so that was a journey for her, but it was also a good learning. Time for us to say, oh, we actually don't have to have all the right answers going in. We could actually let God do his work because God is drawing people to himself all over the world. Yeah. What

[00:11:53] Scott Maderer: a powerful experience. Yeah. And I'm sure that there were many experiences like that [00:12:00] large and small throughout the time of being there.

[00:12:02] So that's powerful. Yeah. So let's jump to a little bit more, what you do today. You now are the director of the ALD nations in Kansas city. So what is all nations and how did you get from there to here,

[00:12:20] Joshua Johnson: so to speak? Yeah. So when we, when my wife and I went out to the middle east, we went out with all nations.

[00:12:25] Okay. So all nations is a training and sending organization where we. We train people to make disciples and train leaders, to ignite what we call church planting movements among neglected peoples. And so we, we provide a lot of training for people that want to go overseas. And so we do that and then we do all of the sending.

[00:12:48] So we send people around the world to create small reproducible communities of Jesus. That look like the culture around them. So we [00:13:00] actually want to see the heart of Christ, the heart of Jesus and the skin of every culture. So that means we actually have to go in as learners and we have to figure out what the culture is and see what can be redeemed what can stay, what needs to leave.

[00:13:13] But because we do all of. This is the point for us as going from being on the front lines, to being behind the scenes, it's a totally different ballgame. It's a totally different thing. Leading an organization, being responsible for raising funds to making sure that we have everything that we need to continue to.

[00:13:33] To move forward to recruits and mobilize people to say, we have enough bodies to do what we want to do and we need to do it's actually about taking the resources that God has given us, making sure that we use them well And steward them so that we could actually see impact around the world.

[00:13:54] And so it's been a really, we came back five years ago and it's been just a joy and [00:14:00] a really fun time, I think, to be able to do this and see the impact multiply throughout the world. So

[00:14:08] Scott Maderer: how has the pandemic in the last two years, how has that affected what y'all do there at all nation?

[00:14:15] Joshua Johnson: Of it affects us as, as far as travel goes.

[00:14:20] We, we actually can't travel as much, but we had so many people that were already out in other countries that stayed in other countries. We didn't pull out people. There was a couple people that were out when the pandemic started, that couldn't go back in, but by and large people stayed where they were.

[00:14:36] And we want to see expressions of Jesus. Whether it be a few people or a large gathering. And so a lot of people since we're gathered small in small groups and we actually could. Can continue to do what we've been doing and see that grow and multiply because especially in the [00:15:00] pandemic people are yearning for connection.

[00:15:03] People are saying that they feel isolated and alone, and so they want a place of belonging and a place to feel like they are connected with other people. And so we've actually seen that increase and be pretty successful in the middle of that. Just being that place and that center of belonging and presence for people.

[00:15:27] Hm. So with you said that y'all are a training program to help train people to go out and create these church movements. What do you think is the most important thing for someone to understand that maybe. Is beginning to feel some call to, to perhaps go out in the mission, work, God is putting that call on their heart, go out into the mission field, whatever that is, that could be overseas, that could be here in the United States.

[00:15:53] Scott Maderer: It doesn't matter. What are some of the things that you think that they need to understand or think about, or at that [00:16:00] beginning stage what would you give them as advice?

[00:16:03] Joshua Johnson: Number one, you have a part to play like you are not disqualified. And so everybody actually has a part to play in the mission of God drawing all peoples to himself.

[00:16:14] And you're not underqualified to be able to do that. And you could actually do it from your living room, wherever you're at. And if you want to know more, we could connect and figure out what does that actually look like for you? Number two God has given you gifts and talents and abilities and strengths for you to use well, to use wisely and to enter into a greater purpose than you've had before to live a life on purpose.

[00:16:47] And as you're. You're trying and struggling and working out. What did it actually look like to live on purpose and live into a call to service to God, [00:17:00] whatever that looks like know that, Hey, whatever God has gifted you and given you, you could actually use that to enter into mission work, whatever work it may be.

[00:17:12] And it doesn't, you. It's not some specialized people on a pedestal that we think missionaries are, there are everyday people that really love God and want to see him known throughout the world. And it's, so everybody has a part to play and I truly believe that.

[00:17:34] Scott Maderer: So you used a couple of words in there and there words that we've used on the show and talk about a lot, but I wanted to hear your take on.

[00:17:41] Yeah. How do you define purpose and calling?

[00:17:44] Joshua Johnson: Calling and purpose are a little bit different with calling you actually know your calling. If you know your caller, if you know who is calling you. And I believe that God is the one that gives [00:18:00] calling. And so that's my personal belief.

[00:18:03] And so I, first and foremost, I am called to be in relationship to God to be a disciple of Jesus. To make sure that Jesus is Lord over all of my life. And that's, that is my calling. And in the midst of that is where you find your purpose. And Frederick beaker says the place that God has called you is where your deep gladness in the world's deep hunger meet.

[00:18:30] And I've always loved that because I know that place. That trajectory is the place where you could find your maximum impact. I like to talk about maximum impact, but it really is the place that God has given you joy and gladness and hunger and thirst and the world. And what is the need?

[00:18:47] What is the problem? What is the pain point where does the world need that joy that you have and that gladness that you have in your heart? And that the gifts and abilities that you have. And I think when you find [00:19:00] those two things and they intersect, I think that's where you could find your purpose.

[00:19:04] And it took me. A lot of times. So my story really was floundering for 10 years in my twenties, trying to figure out what my calling and purpose was. And I didn't know what it was and it wasn't until I actually got on my knees and I surrendered my life to Jesus as Lord. And then I actually found calling and purpose.

[00:19:28] And so as I've taken some assessments and done some things, I've written out a mission statement for my life, which would be my purpose. And so I say, I coach and train others to ignite movements to Jesus. And so whatever I do, anytime that I, you. Have a job or a work. I get to filter that through my mission statement.

[00:19:51] Do I actually get to live out my purpose in this? Or is this just a side thing that I need to do or so what is it? So I [00:20:00] want to make sure that my purpose is lived out in whatever I do.

[00:20:04] Scott Maderer: So somebody just heard that and said, okay, oh, wait a minute. I'm still in that stage. Where I'm stuck trying to figure it out and they may be 20.

[00:20:14] They may be 60. I don't know. We, I think it takes different times for different people. And I think we go through phases of it. What

[00:20:22] advice

[00:20:22] Scott Maderer: would you have for somebody who feels like they're struggling or they're stuck, or they really don't know what they're calling or their purpose is, and yeah.

[00:20:30] What,

[00:20:31] Joshua Johnson: what should they do first? First you, you have to take a journey of self knowledge to really know who you are. Uh, there are a lot of assessment tests out there which are good, but usually we take them individually and we assess ourselves. Actually knowing ourselves we may actually have a wrong assessment of ourselves.

[00:20:54] So these assessment tests, I think are one of the things that are really good. I could find [00:21:00] that through, through anything through strengths finder I think giant does a really good job of five voices. I have an assessment test within the body of Christ, which is called AEST.

[00:21:11] So there's all sorts of these assessment tests that are really good to help us walk. But if we don't know ourselves. We can't assess ourselves. And so that's why we actually have to start having others start to assess us. So having community around you that could speak into your lives, one of the things that I've done in the past that has been really helpful is achievements based straight Achievement based strengths assessment.

[00:21:37] And what that is you have, you actually list out your top 10 achievements in your life and you walk a group of people through that and they then debrief it and give you feedback and say, these are the highlights. And these are the themes in your story that I actually see in you.

[00:21:56] And. There you could actually say, oh, [00:22:00] all of these random things that I thought didn't connect or make sense through the feedback of the community after they've heard your story, they actually can see something that we don't see in ourselves. And I think that's when we could start to take those steps towards, oh, I'm now starting to find my calling and purpose.

[00:22:21] Scott Maderer: And I think it's funny because I the fact is that we. it's through looking backwards that we can look forward. We connect the dots in reverse you don't see 'em when you're in 'em but after the fact you look back and go, oh, that's why that was okay. Now I get it.

[00:22:38] Yeah. I wasn't sure why that was going on, but now I get it. I could connect the dots. It's so hard to

[00:22:43] Joshua Johnson: see it when you're in the middle of.

[00:22:46] Scott Maderer: And that can be good stuff and bad, by the way that isn't just the yes, it's bad in the middle of the storm. It's really hard to see it, but it's also even in the calm moments, sometimes it's hard to see what the dots are.

[00:22:57] Yeah. It's hard to see [00:23:00] the water when you're swimming in. It is

[00:23:01] Joshua Johnson: Exactly a fish doesn't know what water is so if somebody is hearing that and again maybe we've stirred some thoughts and and they're thinking about making. Making an impact, making a difference in the world around them.

[00:23:17] Scott Maderer: You've had a lot of experience with different cultures, with different communities and seeing how people actually make effective impact. What are some of the tips or the mindsets that people need to have to begin to make a positive impact in the community around.

[00:23:34] Joshua Johnson: Yeah, I think first and foremost, I think it's identity knowing who we are how are we gonna make an impact if we don't know who we are and what our purpose is and where we're headed.

[00:23:48] We have to be called and say, Hey, I know where I'm coming from. I know where I'm going. I know whose I am and I could step into it. And the second then we have to actually identify pain points and [00:24:00] problems. And say, okay, this is what I'm going to be focused on. One of the things that happen there's the little parable that there's two men that are fishing in a river.

[00:24:13] And then. Somebody's drowning in the river. So one of the fishermen, Fred goes in, saves the person drowning from a river, puts 'em back on the bank. And then they go back. Another kid is drowning in a river. So Fred goes back in, does it again? And then a third comes in and drowns in the river.

[00:24:33] River. And he's going in and he's yelling at his partners and his partner starts to walk up upstream and he's like, where are you going? You gotta help me with all of this. And his partner is Hey, I'm going upstream to see what the problem is to see who's throwing these kids in the river.

[00:24:50] Who's throwing the kids in the river. Yeah. And so I think one of the things that we, when we wanna make an impact, we actually have to ask those why questions. Why are [00:25:00] these kids drowning? Why is this happening? And then why? And then why? And then once we get past all those why questions, we could actually start to address the problems in our societies problems in our community so that we could actually see some long term effectiveness and fruit, because if we just address The cut.

[00:25:25] We're gonna put a little bandaid on it and you may not actually address what is really needed on the inside

[00:25:32] Scott Maderer: with that too. I think and I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I'd like your take on this. I think one of the things too, that I've seen is oftentimes we come in with the thought of, we know how to fix.

[00:25:48] We have, we know we have the solution as opposed to what you were talking about with the Sarah story where it's no, let me take a step back and help let her [00:26:00] realize what's going on. How do you how do you help folks understand that difference between coming in with all the answers and coming in with a sincere idea of partnership?

[00:26:13] For lack of, I'm not even sure if that's the best word. Yeah. But

[00:26:16] Joshua Johnson: Yeah. It's actually being dependent on the people that you're going to be a part of. One is you have to know the people, you can't come in with a, an agenda or a program and do some hit and run help. If you're gonna actually see.

[00:26:32] See some long term effectiveness, you actually have to be a part of that community. So one, you have to go in and ask a lot of questions. You have to know who you're talking to. And one, and then what you have to do is we wanna say, oh, okay. You know the community better than I do. You know that the pain points better than I do.

[00:26:56] All of the. The actors in [00:27:00] this community better than I, I do. So let me just start to, to pull out the things that you already know, but you're not activated in so that you can, the person in the community can start to affect change. And if I go into a community and I do all the change.

[00:27:21] And the work for people, what happens is I pull, if I pull out and I go somewhere else, all that change goes with me because it actually didn't hit into a worldview change or change down to the core of the center of people. It actually just hit surface level behaviors. And so I actually have to go in deep and help the local people in whatever community that I'm helping and serving to discover how they could best help and impact their own community.

[00:27:52] And that's all about activating what is already inside of people.

[00:27:58] Scott Maderer: Here's my favorite. Here's my [00:28:00] favorite question. Yeah. And you mentioned stewardship earlier, How do you define the word stewardship?

[00:28:06] Joshua Johnson: That's a big word, isn't it. But all it means to me is that I am taking care of the gifts that I've been given in a way that actually honors the gift giver.

[00:28:19] And because. And then second is that everything that I have is not my own. If I steward something, it means I, I manage somebody else's asset. So if my asset is God's and he's the one that's given me a gift, what I do with what he has given me Whether it be my family, my work my, the money that I have gotten in my sphere, whatever it is, I have to actually manage that.

[00:28:49] That gives him honor because it's actually his to begin with and it's not mine. So every single thing that I have in my life, I have to have this attitude that [00:29:00] I am taking care of somebody else's.

[00:29:02] Scott Maderer: How has that understanding how has that impacted your life?

[00:29:05] Joshua Johnson: Actually it's impacted my life a tremendous amount.

[00:29:10] Because one, for me personally, it says that everything I have in my life and my sphere is God's meaning that for so many years that I was. Okay. I'm messing up the things that I own. I'm holding on to things really tightly when I open things up and say, okay, This is mind to steward and not mind to own that stewardship process.

[00:29:38] What it does is it opens up my hands in a way where I can start to give things away and not try to control things in my life. And so it has actually changed the way I lead with other people. It's changed the way I lead my teams is that. their lives are not my [00:30:00] mine to control and to make them accomplish my purpose.

[00:30:05] It's how do we now then collaborate into the purposes that God has given all of us so that we could accomplish what he has set before us? So it's a, it actually, instead of holding on, I actually opened my hands. This is my other favorite question because it's like asking about favorite kids.

[00:30:27] Scott Maderer: I've always got more than one. Hey, I only have one kid, so I could tell you my favorite. I only

[00:30:31] have one. I only have one kid too, and I still have more than one favorite. Much to his chagrin. Let me tell you the yeah, I have one son, but I have. Two God daughters that I end up spending a lot of time with.

[00:30:44] And I've got former students that I still spend time with. And yeah. So I've still got a lot of other kids in my life, much, much to Igram so if I admitted this magic machine Uhhuh, and I could grab you outta the seat where you set today and yeah. Take you into the [00:31:00] future a hundred to 150 years.

[00:31:02] Joshua Johnson: Am I still alive?

[00:31:03] Scott Maderer: Through the magic of this machine, you're able to look back on everything that you've left behind. I don't know if you're alive or not. Just just go with me and you were able to see all the ripples and the impacts that you've left behind. What impact do you hope you've left behind in the world?

[00:31:20] Joshua Johnson: Yeah, I think I actually, in this last year, I think I would answer this differently than I did previously in my life. Now I think the impact that I wanna make in the world is leaving behind the presence of God, everywhere that I go. And so that's, I wanna make sure that. It's cultivated throughout my life.

[00:31:40] And that it actually, I think presence is the thing that could transform people and communities and places more than all of our metrics and our step programs and all of that. But it's actually the presence of God in and through people's [00:32:00] lives. And so I would love to see. Because of, I had a this transforming presence in my life that the people that I've interacted with was able to start to cultivate that transforming presence in their life.

[00:32:14] And then that would start to have that ripple effect throughout the world that goes farther than I ever expected. But it really is. How does that transfer from person to person and in community to C.

[00:32:28] Scott Maderer: Now you got me curious, cuz you started that with, I would've answered it differently before, do you, how would you have answered it?

[00:32:35] 10 years ago or five

[00:32:36] Joshua Johnson: years ago. Oh, I would probably answer something about, I don't know what it would be, but it would have to do with some sort of scale and productivity, the production of my life. I would've seen a visible, tangible effect. On the surface rather than something that is a little bit [00:33:00] more intangible, but actually creates a greater impact and influence today.

[00:33:05] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next for you. As you continue on this journey,

[00:33:09] Joshua Johnson: what's on the roadmap. Yeah. So I think it's the, it's this thing for me is I want to coach and train others to ignite movements to Jesus. And so wherever I'm doing that, so at all nations at all, nations.us as we're coaching and training and sending missionaries all over the world and we're doing that and we have programs and trainings.

[00:33:30] And to be able to do that. Or if my work with five Q left, which is an organization that, that wants to see the Ephesians for typology, the apostle prophet evangelist, shepherd, and teacher integrated in churches so that we could be mature. In that, or my work in movement leaders collective when we're actually looking at what is movement DNA, and how do we do that at, and you could find more about that@mdna.co.

[00:33:58] Those are the things [00:34:00] that I put my energy in. And then what I'm trying to do with my podcast called shifting culture is to do that same thing is to figure out how do we actually shift. Culture, how do we create a place where the kingdom of God is present and not the the kingdom of Joshua or the kingdom of Scott, but the kingdom of God is present.

[00:34:23] And so I love being on the other end and asking some questions and really wrestling with those question.

[00:34:30] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Joshua on his website at www dot shifting culture, podcast.com. He's also active on Facebook and Instagram under shifting culture podcast. Of course, off links to everything over in the show notes as well. Joshua, anything else you'd like

[00:34:48] Joshua Johnson: to share with the listen? No. I actually think if you like what you hear, there's a lot of training programs that I've been able to do.

[00:34:57] And I have at all nations all [00:35:00] nations.us. And there are a lot of coaching programs when it comes to movement leaders, collective, we do@mdna.co. And you could get involved there. There's a lot of resources and things that I've done over there that. Free for you to enjoy and then connect with me.

[00:35:18] If you want to see anything that I've been talking about, if you wanna see that accomplished and happen around the world, I'd love to connect and chat so that we could see it accomplished together.

[00:35:28] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much

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