SNS 131: Saturday Night Special – Interview with the author of Be Vigilant! Len Herstein

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Welcome to tonight's Saturday night, special episode 131.

[00:00:05] Len Herstein: I'm Len Herstein. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to remain vigilant and avoid complacency is key.

[00:00:21] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott.

[00:00:29] you got to understand who your competition is and what you're trying to accomplish and what your purpose is. I spent a lot of time in the book talking about. And the importance of being able to articulate your why. And something that we have now has become so very clear in the world of law enforcement over the last decade is the importance of being able to articulate why we're doing things.

[00:00:51] Scott Maderer: Thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then [00:01:00] you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true column. In the inspired stewardship podcast, we'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:16] Welcome to tonight's Saturday night special tonight. I asked Lynn about it. Be vigilant and why complacency and vigilance are important to understand Linda and I talk with you about how success can actually be just as dangerous as failure. And I also asked Lynn to share with you how ignoring predictability and focusing only on unpredictability can lead to problems in business and in life.

[00:01:42] One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and [00:02:00] read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.

[00:02:04] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listened to great books.

[00:02:28] The same way you're listening to this podcast. Lynn Herstein has over 30 years of experience in business and brand marketing prior to founding his marketing and events company metal camp, Inc Lynn innovated managed and grew brands for major consumer packaged goods, marketers, including Campbell soup company, Coca Cola, and the Biscoe since 2015, Lynn has served as a reserve deputy sheriff with the Douglas county Sheriff's office in college.

[00:02:57] Blending law enforcement training and professional [00:03:00] experience. He learned a valuable business lessons while serving his community to transform both homes and careers through his applicable law enforcement inspired strategies. He helps business leaders improve performance and safeguard success in all aspects of their lives.

[00:03:17] Through vigilance, a fan of the lie, castor city foxes of the English premier league, the Denver Broncos. Lynn lives in Colorado with his wife, two daughters and their Australian shepherd. Welcome to the show,

[00:03:31] Len Herstein: Lynn. Thanks Scott. I am so happy to be here. Thanks for having me on.

[00:03:35] Scott Maderer: And then we talked a little bit about this in the intro, but in your book, be vigilant, you talk a lot about kind of complacency and vigilance and how these two things fit together.

[00:03:47] Can you, before we get into it, go too far down the road of talking about the book, can you define those terms for you? What you think, what you feel like they mean and why these concepts are important to

[00:03:59] Len Herstein: people? [00:04:00] Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It's at the heart of everything I'm doing these days, so it's good to start off with that.

[00:04:06] Basic understanding and complacency is a word that's used a lot. After us talking about it, you'll pick up on it. You'll see it in the news. You'll hear people say it in conversation. If you're a sports fan, you'll hear it all the time. And it's become kind of one of these throwaway words where people say, Hey they're getting complacent or don't get complacent, but nobody ever talks about what that means or how to do that.

[00:04:26] So complacency. A lot of people think is laziness. They use it that way. All look, they're getting lazy, they're getting complacent, but complacency is not laziness. Complacency is an overconfidence, a self satisfaction, a smugness that makes us unaware of potential deans. Okay. And that in essence is what it is.

[00:04:49] And what I talk about in a book is that the irony about complacency is the more success we enjoyed. The more success we have at work at home in our relationships, [00:05:00] the more likely we are to become overconfident. Self-satisfied smug. Complacent. Okay. And I talk about it in a book and we'll talk about how danger, how dangerous complacency is now.

[00:05:13] People, a lot of people think that the opposite of complacency is paranoia. People get a little freaked out. They're like, oh, so what am I supposed to do? Be looking over my shoulder all the time. And all these things I have to be hypervigilant. And the answer to that is no, because the opposite of complacency is.

[00:05:30] Paranoia it's vigilance. Okay. And I define those differently. So in very simple terms, paranoia is the fear of potential threats and vigilance is the awareness. So vigilance is awareness based is being aware and being in the moment, whereas paranoia is being fearful. And so our goal is not to be fearful.

[00:05:54] Our goal is to be aware and prepared so that we can fight and avoid complete. [00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Scott Maderer: Yeah. So before we dive into the book, let's do another little ground set. Talk a little bit about how your background and your history got you to this realization of complacency and vigilance and how those interstate.

[00:06:17] Len Herstein: Yeah. So my background I have 30 plus years in business and marketing and entrepreneurship. I've worked in consulting. I did a number I worked for Nabisco and Coca-Cola and Campbell soup and brand marketing. And then I started my own company managed camp, where for the last 19 years we've produced the annual brand manage camp marketing conference.

[00:06:36] And so my entire history was all business and marketing. And then in 2015, I was looking for way to to give back to my community. And the thing that I came across that worked for me is I actually became a volunteer, a reserve Sheriff's deputy for the Douglas county Sheriff's office here in Colorado.

[00:06:55] And it involved me going through a full academy and and [00:07:00] 440 hours of field training. And I became a certified peace officer in the state of Colorado. So I could go out on patrol and I do it. I just do it for free. It became. It was one of those things where I thought it was going to be very different than all my other experiences.

[00:07:12] I thought it was something that it was going to be here I was 45 years old at the point at that time. And I was just coming into this and I thought it was gonna be a different experience. But the thing that struck me from the very first day of the academy and all the way through was that I was learning things that I saw had direct applicability.

[00:07:29] Through my other lenses back to my business life and my personal life. And one of the first things that I learned right away was this concept that complacency kills. And it's something that we talk about is something that we are always struggling with within law enforcement. And I immediately started thinking, you know what?

[00:07:47] Complacency also kills businesses. It kills brands, it kills organizations. It kills personal relationships. And so I became obsessed with understanding complacency, why it is what [00:08:00] it is and how dangerous it is. And then I started to find the things that we do within law enforcement every day to help us.

[00:08:08] Avoid complacency and fight it with vigilance. And that's where this book came from is the intersection of those experiences for me. And this desire to translate that back to this is not a law enforcement or a police book. This is a business and personal book. And this is about helping people understand and identify complacency and giving them specific tools they can use.

[00:08:30] Well

[00:08:30] Scott Maderer: Let's talk about that a little bit. If the average listener is listening, maybe they haven't read your book yet. And they're thinking to themselves, wait a minute, how do these things work together? How can I actually remove. Vigilant and avoid this complacency, this failure that can be brought on by success.

[00:08:50] Maybe they're having some success in their life and they're a little maybe feeling a little of that paranoia. Am I getting complacent? What do we look for? And what do we do to [00:09:00] actually avoid.

[00:09:00] Len Herstein: In the book, what we have is we have 10 specific strategies that we can use. A lot of them are focused on keeping us in the moment and finding the areas in our lives and our business that are most vulnerable.

[00:09:13] I can give you an example of a couple of books. One of the things I talk about in the book is at the core of all this, I talked about how success. Breeds complacency. And that, and the irony within that at the core of that is this concept of survivorship bias and understanding that a lot of times, because we've made it past a certain point, we believe, or are led to believe that the things that we've done up to that point, We're the cause of that, we've all seen the meme or memes about I survive lead paint and spankings and drinking from the hose and riding in a station wagon backwards with no seatbelts like it or click if you did too. On the thing on the back seat, dad would hit the brakes and you roll to the floor.

[00:09:57] Yeah. Yeah. And [00:10:00] and people will click. Yeah, I did that too. You don't Yeah. The people that need surviving. Exactly. And that's survivor bias and that's exactly what survivorship bias is. Just by having success and just by getting through things it's that difference between causality and correlation right.

[00:10:19] And understanding those. And so once we understand that and we understand, you

[00:10:23] know,

[00:10:23] Len Herstein: that's stage one to fight and complacency is to understand that it exists. Yeah. That's the tricky thing about complacency. You don't know you have it because you're not thinking about it. If you're aware of it, you're probably not being complacent.

[00:10:38] So if you think.

[00:10:40] Scott Maderer: If you're worried about being complacent, then you're less likely to be complacent, absolute, worried about it. You're more likely to feel it. Yeah, that's exactly it. And

[00:10:49] Len Herstein: what I like to say is you don't find a lot of struggling bootstrapping startups, maxing out their credit cards, working out of somebody's parents' garage that are complacent, that's [00:11:00] not where you find complaints. Where are you find complacency or people who have success and have been experiencing sex. So that's stage one. And then there are specific things that you can do to help yourself to give yourself the best chance to fight complacency. So there are processes that you set up in your business or your life.

[00:11:18] One of the things I talk about as threat awareness is making sure that we understand where the threats can come from. Both at work and at home. And figure out what that looks like and even do scenario planning. What if planning in terms of, if this happens, what am I going to do?

[00:11:37] If that happens, what am I going to do? So often we get so comfortable in what we think our threats are that we missed the new. We if you're in a business and you can easily right now rattle off your top two or three competitors in your plans against them. My question to you is where's that next set of competition coming from?

[00:11:57] What is the next industry that's going to disrupt [00:12:00] yours? What is the next competitor that's coming in? If you're a solar panel company, did you see Tesla as your competitor? 10 years? And do you see them now? Probably. So part of the one, one thing is about this idea of threat awareness and building a process within your organization, within your personal life to make sure you are keeping a 360 degree view.

[00:12:26] Your potential threats. It's easy to see in front of us. Sometimes we spend a lot of time looking behind us, but what we miss is what's coming from the other sides. And I talk about in a books specific ways that you can do that. There are a lot of other things that we talk about.

[00:12:40] We talk about the importance of questioning everything every even when everything's going. One of the things that we're really good at in our personal and business lives is debriefing. When things go wrong. When something goes wrong we're very good at dissecting.

[00:12:57] Why did it go wrong? No more poorly [00:13:00] whose fault? That's

[00:13:01] Scott Maderer: usually pretty important. At

[00:13:03] Len Herstein: least the corporate jobs I've had. That was

[00:13:05] pretty

[00:13:05] Len Herstein: important. Yeah. Whose fault was it? But what we don't do a lot of times, and this is what leads to complacency is we don't do that. When things go right. When we have positive results.

[00:13:14] Yeah, it was it though. Was it right? Was it because, and did it go right because of us, did it go right? Because of some other factors, did it go right? But it could have gone more, right? Because there were things that we left on the table. Where there mistakes that we made that we made that kind of drew back our level of success.

[00:13:33] But we still had an overall success I tell people be like, Tom Brady be like Peyton Manning, be like someone who win or lose. You are watching those tapes afterwards to look for the opportunities to debrief. And I, and so debriefing is a huge thing. I have a whole chapter on that in the book, in terms of how do you number one, do that well, and then how do you build that into the system so that one of the cool things about fighting complacency, like [00:14:00] I talked about as being aware of it, So if everybody in your organization or your family knows that at the end of a specific mission or project or thing that's going on, you're always going to have a debrief regardless of outcome, right?

[00:14:14] They are going to pay more attention to what's going on because they know they're going to be expected to talk about it and dissect it afterwards. Just that extra level of attention while you're doing it makes you less complacent. So that's another thing we talk about. I talk about the importance, especially if we're talking about business owners and people who have people working for them, the importance of autonomy and engagement within your workforce to help avoid complacency at the macro and the micro levels.

[00:14:44] At the. Say you have someone who's stocking shelves in a store. If their job is defined as only stocking shelves, when someone comes up and ask them for help, how likely are they to help them? Because they're being judged on how well they stocked that [00:15:00] shelf, right? If they don't have that autonomy, if they don't have that discretion to be able to understand what their true purpose.

[00:15:07] Within the organization and what the organization's true purpose is, you lose that level of engagement and that's where you get complacency at that level, that, that kind of factors all the way up. And that goes throughout the entire organization. So I talk about that as well. Like I said, there's 10 of them, but there are things that we can do every day.

[00:15:23] That doesn't mean being paranoid, but means better setting ourselves up to to fight and avoid complaints.

[00:15:31] Scott Maderer: And one of the things that struck me as I was going through the book is also, you talked a little bit about unpredictability and I would think most of us, when we hear on predictability, we hear change where your chance we hear those sorts of things.

[00:15:46] It comes across as a negative thing. We want to get rid of unpredictability what we want to get rid of chance. Smooth everything out, but you actually talk about something you called strategic unpredictability. [00:16:00] Would you talk a little bit more about what that is and how that plays itself out in what you're

[00:16:06] Len Herstein: sharing?

[00:16:07] Yeah, absolutely. I throughout the book, Our stories both from business, but also from law enforcement in terms of how do we do this? How do we fight this? And this is one of those things that is born out of my experience, a lot of enforcement where we talk about this idea of getting off the air.

[00:16:26] So if you picture a cartoon character, Wiley coyote standing in the middle of the asphalt with a standing on a big X, with an ad anvil about to fall on his head the idea is how do we get off that X, right? And that's this idea that falls into this concept that we use called the OODA loop and it's O D a the OODA loop a and a stands for observe orient, decide and act.

[00:16:54] And so what we're taught is that this is concept comes from the military world. This comes from the [00:17:00] understanding of how fighter jet pilots can outmaneuver and beat their competition. And it's all about what our decision process looks like. And so the OODA loop represents this loop, right?

[00:17:12] So we observed, we oriented, we decided we act and it's something to be one, right? The pur the one who gets through that, the quick. Wins now here's the trick. Every time something changes, we go back to the beginning of the UDL it again. So think about a football player running down the field with a ball.

[00:17:30] You're a defensive player. You don't have to be a mathematician. If they're running straight down the sideline to figure out what angle and what speeds you need to run at to intercept them. They are predictable. Now, as soon as they start. Juking and moving and twisting and turning and spinning.

[00:17:47] Every time they do that, we are re observing reorienting, redesigning, and then reacting. And that's when you see a defensive player trip over their own feet and fall over. And everybody that makes a highlight reel, but what happened was. [00:18:00] Offensive player disrupted that OODA loop of the defensive player so quickly that it had that happened.

[00:18:06] So when we talk about in law enforcement, getting off the ax, we talk about not being where they expect you to be, right? And those are small, subtle movements that we make to just disrupt that OODA loop. When you translate that into business. You have to think about what are the things that we can do not to disrupt our customer's experience with us or our customer's expectations of us, but to become strategically unpredictable.

[00:18:33] What are the things that we're doing that are making us easy and having us stand on the X, do we always have in retail I talk in the book about being so accustomed. I'm a big fan of Eddie Bauer. I liked their clothes, but I've become so accustomed to them. That they send out so many offers that I will not, I've been trained not to buy anything at less than 60% off.

[00:18:57] No 40% off is I scoff at it. I immediately [00:19:00] delete the email. I don't even look at it. Because they've become so predictable that I know that in another week it's going to be 60% and I'll buy it then. And your competitors know that too. And you become, you can become so stuck in what you're doing, that you become very predictable and that predictability leads to vulnerability.

[00:19:18] It makes it easier for your competition to act against. And so what I talk about in a book is specific ways that you can become strategically unpredictable. One of those ways is to self disrupt, right? We want to make sure that we are disrupting ourselves before anybody else gets a chance to disrupt us.

[00:19:37] A great example of that is Netflix. We all know how Netflix disrupted blockbuster, right? But now what Netflix is doing is it's continually disrupting its own India. Look at all the streaming services that are creating their own content now. Who did that Netflix. And and now that the squid games, I don't know if you've seen this thing, the [00:20:00] who would have thought, who would have thought that like a Korean series that is obviously dub, like it's in Korean has become like the number one worldwide.

[00:20:11] Phenomenon that it's become right. This is Netflix disrupting its own industry and remaining being hard. It's not standing on the X, it's not standing on the X and it's not it's not making it easy for the competition.

[00:20:25] Scott Maderer: And it's why again, using that place as the example that you've got Disney plus, who is backed by a kid, glomerate with some of the deepest pockets on the planet and they're doing quite well.

[00:20:38] They've actually gotten more customers in a shorter amount of time than Netflix did in that amount of time and that sort of thing. But at the same time, they're not putting Netflix out of business either. At least not yet. Netflix is still holding their own against them.

[00:20:51] Len Herstein: And look at the powerhouse, look at the properties that Disney had already, right? So they've got star wars, they've gotten Marvel, [00:21:00] right? They had all these things. If they didn't get to where they were, as quickly as people would be like, what is wrong with them? The question is what do they do with it now?

[00:21:07] Cause eventually you're going to see every Marvel movie and eventually you've seen all the star wars. So what do you do now?

[00:21:14] Scott Maderer: And there, and they started out of the gate producing some of their own content. But it's within those IPS. So it's the interesting thing to see.

[00:21:21] How does that play out? Long-term yeah and again, whether you're a big business or a small business, we use the example of Netflix and a Disney but as a mom and pop shop, too, you've got to think the same way.

[00:21:34] Len Herstein: Absolutely. Absolutely. You got to understand who your competition is and what you're trying to accomplish and what your purpose is.

[00:21:40] I spent a lot of time in the book talking about purpose and the importance of being able to articulate your why. And it's something that we have has become so very clear in the world of law enforcement over the last decade. Is the importance of being able to articulate why we're doing things right.

[00:21:56] And understanding the purpose of why we're out there. [00:22:00] That is just as important for a small business owner, a mom and pop stores, understanding what is it that you are there for beyond making money. We understand making money as is. You got to do that, but what else are you there for? What is your purpose?

[00:22:13] What is going to be missed? If you're not. And then how do you translate that and keep translating that. So you don't become so predictable that your competition can just do that.

[00:22:22] Scott Maderer: Yeah, Simon Sinek start with why is a great Ted talk for those that haven't seen it in. Great. So let's pivot this a little bit we've talked a little bit about the business world and law enforcement and that, how do you see what you teach in the book be vigilant?

[00:22:40] How do you see that as applying to personal decision-making as well? In a family or as an industry.

[00:22:48] Len Herstein: Yeah, absolutely. It became so clear to me that as I looked around at where relationships fail and have, and I've had friends who seem to [00:23:00] have the perfect relationships and ended up in divorce or just people who have strained relationships with their family, or even just friends a lot of that can be translated and traced back to.

[00:23:13] Complacency to taking those things for granted to not putting in the work, to becoming over confident in the strength of those relationships. And you start missing things, you start missing, you don't see where the threats are coming from. You don't plan for the. You don't understand. You don't break down your successes and your failures.

[00:23:35] You don't spend time with introspection and as a unit understanding where we're being successful and where we're not right. A husband and wife who own. Fights about things, as opposed to talking about, wow, we had a really good day today, or our children just had something really cool.

[00:23:52] Go on. Let's talk about like how we got there and what we can replicate and what we could have done better. As a team how [00:24:00] often do we do that kind of stuff. And when people drift apart or they start having these unresolved conflicts that create these tensions that build over years to the point where all trust is I spent a lot of time talking in the book about trust and accountability and transparency, and the fact that when trust goes away, what we lose is the benefit of the doubt, right? If you're in a relationship where, when something, somebody says something, you immediately interpret that in the worst possible light, you possibly can.

[00:24:32] As opposed to giving them the benefit of the doubt. That's where you got to start thinking we've got some problems here, right? We've got some trust issues. We've got we've got some things that, that we've been ignoring. Those things seem to pop up out of nowhere, but they come from extended period of.

[00:24:48] Scott Maderer: So before I go in and ask a few questions that I try to ask all of my guests, is there anything else from the book that you think is really important for people to hear or to [00:25:00] understand?

[00:25:00] Len Herstein: One of the things that I think that would be really interesting for people to understand is this idea of data and metrics.

[00:25:08] And how they can do the opposite of what they're supposed to do. And they can actually lead to complacency. If we're using too many metrics, if we're using the wrong metrics, if we're using vanity metrics that only make us feel good, but don't tell us anything actionable. Or if we're using metrics within our organizations or our family that.

[00:25:27] Perverse incentives that, that incense people to do the wrong things, right? Those metrics, that data we live in a world of almost unlimited data. Now the problem is it can actually work against us as much as it can work for us. And that's something that I think people don't always understand. I talk about in a book that just because just because you don't see blood doesn't mean there's no.

[00:25:50] Yeah and that's something that, that, you know, just because it if you don't have the right metrics, you may not see if you're not measuring things the right way. You might not [00:26:00] see the issues and to the, until they're too late, I think that's a really important one

[00:26:05] Scott Maderer: without the ability to see into the what's the story behind the metric that you're using.

[00:26:11] And then are you picking the right ones? As well? Yeah it's like the People that believe that they've got a lot of audience, a lot of friends because they have 5,000 friends on.

[00:26:21] Len Herstein: Exactly. Yeah. My kid's definition of friends is way different than my definition of what a friend is. And, you

[00:26:28] Scott Maderer: know, I always say, yeah, the real measure of friendship, is what is the old joke a friend will help you move a. A real friend will help you move

[00:26:37] Len Herstein: bodies that, sorry.

[00:26:39] Scott Maderer: I'm sorry. I figured a lot at first, but over the bad joke. So one question I like to ask, all of my guests is about my brand is stewardship. I filter everything through this idea of inspired stewardship.

[00:26:53] So for you, what is the definition of the word stewardship and what is its impact been on you?

[00:26:57] Len Herstein: Yeah for me, [00:27:00] stewardship, I think in terms of how. Look after something that doesn't belong to you. An entirety. For me, especially as it relates to what I've been doing lately in law enforcement I I'm a steward of people's safety and people's comfort and people's ability to to live their lives without without feeling endanger.

[00:27:26] Or being scared and things of that sort of net that to me translates into a lot of different things. It's not just about catching bad people, right? It's about helping people in their times of need and being there in the way that they need you to be there for them, which sometimes just means just listening to them, and sometimes it's just helping them work through issues. In that light that's where stewardship is for me is really just helping people with things that. And being progressive with things that don't necessarily belong to me.

[00:27:58] Scott Maderer: So [00:28:00] one of the other questions that I like to ask everyone, and people jokingly tell me, this is the easy question.

[00:28:06] If I could invent this magic machine and I could grab you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe a hundred to 150 years, and you were able to look back on your entire life. Yeah. What's the impact that you hope you've left behind in the world?

[00:28:22] Len Herstein: In this second stage where I've ventured into law enforcement my whole reason for that is, is and I hope down the road, I can look back and I've had some sort of positive impact in bridging any gaps that there are between The community and law enforcement and creating the relationship that should exist in terms of trust, in terms of partnership in terms of feeling that we're both, that we're all working together for the right reasons and for the right [00:29:00] outcomes.

[00:29:01] That really is my purpose at this point. In my purpose in the business world is to help people understand complacency and to be able to fight it both at work at home. My purpose outside of that is to foster the this growing and a better relationship between the public and law.

[00:29:20] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next for Lynn, as you continue on this journey, you've got the book out now and you're living out your call and impacting the world what's coming next for,

[00:29:31] Len Herstein: for you. Yeah, my goal is so it's interesting. I have been. Producing marketing conferences for the last 19 years. I'm at that stage where I would like to be on the other side of things and my whole thing with the book is to get this word out and to help as many people as possible with it.

[00:29:51] And my what's next on my journey is going out and on a speaker. Career and getting into [00:30:00] organizations, associations conferences, and just extending the reach of this message and helping people the great thing about the dangerous thing about complacency is you don't know it's there until it's too late.

[00:30:12] The great thing about what I'm doing. Just by having these conversations, you will walk away less complacent because you're already thinking about it. And you're already thinking about the things and that happens from the book. But I think it's even more powerful when we do an in person and hopefully we can get to in-person learning experiences as being the norm, moving forward, as opposed to the virtual world.

[00:30:33] But that's what's next on me and my journey is getting out there and getting face to face with as many people as I can and spreading.

[00:30:40] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Lynn on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn as Lynn, her stain that's Len Herstein is spelled H E R S T E I N. He's also got more information over on his main website.

[00:30:56] That's at Lynn, her steam.com. Of course I'll have [00:31:00] links to all of this over the show notes as well. Lynn, is there anything else that you'd like to share with them?

[00:31:04] Len Herstein: No, I've really enjoyed this conversation. Scott, I'm so glad and grateful that you had me on. And I just hope that that just by having this conversation, people are already thinking about the ways they might be complacent in their business and their lives.

[00:31:18] And if you're looking for ideas as to how to identify that and fight it, check out the book, be vigilant and reach out and contact.

[00:31:25] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast, as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode. Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.

[00:31:53] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a [00:32:00] rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your. Until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.