SNS 100: Saturday Night Special – Interview with Janice Lintz from Hearing Access & Innovations
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Welcome to tonight's Saturday night, special episode 100
[00:00:06] Braden Douglas: [00:00:06] I'm Braden Douglas. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out. Your calling. Having the ability to lead with impact is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott.
[00:00:29]Janice Lintz: [00:00:29] really important for the people need access. They speak up, it's easier said than done, but I will say if you want to affect change in your local whatever business it is the best way to do it. Is to contact the head of the company or the CEO. What's your Raptor. Don't go through visitor access.
[00:00:50] Don't go through accessibility. You want the head of the company to know the issue.
[00:00:55] Scott Maderer: [00:00:55] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship [00:01:00] podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasure. For your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast, we'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you impact the work.
[00:01:21]In tonight, Saturday night special, I interviews Janiece Lintz about her work, bringing access to those with a hearing loss. I asked Denise about why she has a passion for this work. And I also ask her to share her approach for bringing access to everyone. And she shares more about her calling and the impact that she hopes she has on the world.
[00:01:43] Now, one area that a lot of folks need. Some help with is around the area of productivity, getting not just more things done, but actually getting the right things done can be really tough. I've got a [00:02:00] course called productivity for your passion. That's designed to help you do this and then to hold you accountable and walk with you so that you can tailor productivity, not just to be getting more done.
[00:02:15] But actually getting the right things done. What's more, we take the
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[00:02:18] Scott Maderer: [00:02:18] of looking at your personality and how you actually look at things in the world and tailor the productivity system to your personnel. Cause the truth is a lot of the systems that are out there are written really well for somebody with a particular personality type.
[00:02:35] But if you have a different approach to things, they just don't work, but there's tools and techniques and approaches that you can take that will work for anyone. And we help you do that in productivity for your passion. Check it out over@inspiredstewardship.com slash lawn.
[00:02:52]Janiece S lens founded, hearing access innovations. The only company dedicated to helping businesses. [00:03:00] Cultural institutions, entertainment, venues, and government agencies around the world. Better serve people with a hearing loss. She is an internationally recognized hearing access consultant who is sought after for her ability to assess needs and develop and implement creative solutions across organizational and geographic boundaries.
[00:03:22] Welcome to the show, Janice.
[00:03:24] Janice Lintz: [00:03:24] Thank you so much.
[00:03:27] Scott Maderer: [00:03:27] So we talked a little bit in the intro about this passion and this work you do around hearing loss. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey and what brought you to this passionate advocation? For those that have a hearing loss,
[00:03:43] Janice Lintz: [00:03:43] because I have a daughter who has a hearing loss and when she was diagnosed, the doctor medially said, don't worry.
[00:03:52] There are special schools for her. I hadn't even wrap my head around the diagnosis and already the bar for her life was [00:04:00] lowered. I live in Manhattan. I don't do special unless they're Ivy league university special. And I don't think that's what the doctor had in mind. And so I decided I had a choice. I could either change the world or I could lower my standards since lowering my standards.
[00:04:17] Wasn't an option. I decided it was easier to change the world than change my standards. And so that's what I did. And it wasn't meant to be being a martyr. It wasn't meant to be like a project. It was meant to just be, so our family could find. And then somewhere along the way as I was doing it, I realized that, wow, there may be something here.
[00:04:39] And it started growing as my access work expanded in Manhattan. And then around the state of New York, and then we would travel. We travel extensively. So when we traveled around the United States, I work on projects where I didn't see the access and I would file a complaint. They are. And then later, as we traveled internationally as [00:05:00] well.
[00:05:00] I would see the access existed in other countries and I'm like, why does it exist in other countries? And now the United States. So I would take photographs of it to prove it. And then when I didn't see it in other places, I would show black bullets here. And the next thing I knew I was running this program that I fell into by happenstance.
[00:05:18] Although I am trained in Zen attorney. And my goal when I graduated law school was to change. I actually just didn't think this would be how, and I, frankly didn't really think what I was going to do. I just knew I wanted to have a profound impact in the world.
[00:05:35] Scott Maderer: [00:05:35] One of the things I've heard you talk about is, it's not just as simple as putting things in writing or having other sorts of access like that, but rather you have to look at it.
[00:05:50] A three-pronged approach to improving access with those that have a hearing loss. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that and why it's not [00:06:00] just as simple as what? I think a lot of people think of oh, we just we've got closed captioning. Everything's good. Or that kind of simple approach
[00:06:06] Janice Lintz: [00:06:06] to it, the three-prong approach in order to reach.
[00:06:10] So hearing loss is a spectrum. And I think that's the part that. Don't understand, is that where you there, there is a spectrum of hearing loss. So you have from one end people who may be having a little difficulty hearing they're not responding, let's say to a spouse or their children. And that can also, by the way, be selective hearing in
[00:06:32] Scott Maderer: [00:06:32] this case, I actually do have a diagnosed hearing loss because of ear infections when I was a child.
[00:06:37]I've got a 50% in one year and about 25% in the other ear in certain frequencies, but other frequencies, I hear perfectly fine. Hearing aids. I do not currently, I haven't needed them yet. But at some point it will get to the point where I will need some sort of hearing. Yes.
[00:06:52] Janice Lintz: [00:06:52] It's just like you make it.
[00:06:54] So this is very common and actually it takes on average seven years for a person [00:07:00] who thinks they may need a hearing aid to the point they get a hearing aid. I'm probably in that
[00:07:04] Scott Maderer: [00:07:04] seven.
[00:07:05]Janice Lintz: [00:07:05] And for men, it seems to be a little more less, the longer on the longer side than women. For all the reasons you would think,
[00:07:14] Scott Maderer: [00:07:14] because we're
[00:07:14] Janice Lintz: [00:07:14] stubborn to figure out how to politely say
[00:07:20] Scott Maderer: [00:07:20] it's okay.
[00:07:21] I'll admit to that. My wife calls that testosterone poisoning, by the way testosterone poisoning. The reason why men fight against going to the doctors, because they suffer from testosterone.
[00:07:30] Janice Lintz: [00:07:30] That's brilliant. I love that. I really liked that. So you have the spectrum of somebody like yourself, where they may be starting to feel like they've lost some here.
[00:07:39] Yeah. All the way to the other side of the spectrum, where someone is deaf, there is no one solution to reach that entire bandwidth. So in order to reach everyone because of the 48 million people in the U S with some form of hearing loss, less than 1% is dead. So [00:08:00] someone who is deaf uses sign language, that's less than 1%, but sign language is critical to people who are deaf, but sign language because it's visible.
[00:08:10] Many people will think it. Is bandaid solution for everyone, except the vast majority of people do not use sign language. In fact, if you suddenly would not learn sign language, it's like learning a second language and that's, I think that's people fail to understand, the same way learning French when you're older is a little hard, not impossible, but learning sign language is the same.
[00:08:32]It's a whole nother language with a whole different sense. So to reach the audience that is not deaf, there are two things that are needed because depending on where you are. So for the person who has someone like yourself, you would probably rely on. A visual translation of the sound because you, without personalizing this, someone who may not be admitting, they have a hearing [00:09:00] loss.
[00:09:00] So they're not going to get something to put in their ear because they would have to admit it, but they may be without realizing it, relying on captions. Then you have somebody who has gotten hearing aids or cochlear implant, and they still want to hear the sound that, If you could hear the sound of a bird tweeting, for example, or music, more voice, you want to hear it.
[00:09:26] If you have that ability, you don't want to read it. And this is the park where a lot of people don't get it and get it as the right word and they'll and people who are, let's say access coordinators will say, oh, I had someone from the national endowment for the arts. Tell me to be able to hear.
[00:09:43] Is like wanting rolls Royce level access versus Chrysler access by just having captions. And I was like, that is ridiculous. If sound is not important, then shut the sound for everyone, but you wouldn't. And then another bank of America, didn't feel you needed to [00:10:00] have induction loops at the banks because they felt you could write notes or read them.
[00:10:07] But can you imagine writing notes back and forth to a teller that would be beyond irritating? And you can imagine the people behind you getting more and more frustrated, right? Like you could see how this would go and who wants to put necessarily everything in writing you want to, it's
[00:10:21] Scott Maderer: [00:10:21] also a security thing because what you're writing down account numbers and all sorts of information, where does it go after that?
[00:10:27] Janice Lintz: [00:10:27] Exactly. That's a great point. It's just unbelievable. So people who have residual hearing want to hear, and no one should be deciding for them, they don't need to hear. Then you have the group that going further towards the right on the spectrum who they've lost their hearing, even with a cochlear implant or hearing aid, or they refuse to get that one.
[00:10:50] They can't hear anymore. They are still, they are really in a pickle because if they're not learning sign language, They're really, and they [00:11:00] won't wear a hearing aid or a hearing aid or cochlear implant. Bill will not work for them. For whatever reason. They are really a hundred percent dependent on visual translation and that's really a difficult place to be.
[00:11:12] And then again, you move to the people who are deaf, but there's a lot of gray between where someone who might be deaf know sign language, but then use this camera. Or someone who has residual hearing is also relying on captions to miss a couple of words. So it's not as, quite as clear, but it's basically a three-prong approach to effective communication.
[00:11:34] And when you have all three, then you've reached the full spectrum. It's not a menu to pick and choose.
[00:11:41] Scott Maderer: [00:11:41] So and you mentioned deduction loops as one of the assistive devices. Can you just for anyone who doesn't know what that is because they're not everywhere. Can you explain what an inductive induction loop is?
[00:11:53] Janice Lintz: [00:11:53] Yes. And I'm sorry. So on the assist of listening systems, there are three types. You have an FM radio [00:12:00] frequency, infrared. Those two systems require a person to wear a receiver around their neck and receive the PSAP. The, either the FM signal or the light point of light signal in a post pandemic world, people are not going to want to wear anything that touched another human being, right.
[00:12:21] It's just not going to happen then in not only that, but if you don't wear hearing aids, you need, and you have a mild loss. You have to put that in your. Now imagine taking something that somebody else wore and putting in your ear and being dependent on somebody else saying I cleaned it, who is not exactly in healthcare and their standards may not be up to yours.
[00:12:45] It's just not. So the best system is the third option and induction loop. And what an induction loop does is you take your hearing aid or cochlear implant, and you switch it to the T or telecoil setting. [00:13:00] And then there's an induction loop in the premises that alert and the sound electromagnetically bounces to your hearing aid or cochlear implant.
[00:13:08] You don't have to ask permission to activate it. It's already. You don't have to wear a device, no issues with
[00:13:15]Scott Maderer: [00:13:15] You wear the device. You already have
[00:13:17] Janice Lintz: [00:13:17] exactly where the device you already have. It's easy peasy. You don't have to worry about it being broken. The same way of devices being broken or people not charging the batteries.
[00:13:28] This is built in. And it's really the only option. Especially in a post COVID world, I don't see anybody ever putting something in their ear again, that's touched another human being.
[00:13:39]Scott Maderer: [00:13:39] And that's something that I know, you know it, yeah. Cause we looked into it actually for our church and are trying to get that built into our church because and again, in some ways it's funny because my pastor has a hearing loss and has a cochlear implant, and then I have a hearing loss and I'm the AP.
[00:13:55]So we're both advocating for it because it's we're both like we could use it at some point. I know [00:14:00] I need it. And of course we have an aging population in our church that many of whom we're beginning to have here. Loss. And we're hearing aids and it's this is something we need to do.
[00:14:10]Just to be able to have access for everybody. We have slides, we have captioning, we do all of that already. But like you said, that's not the same as being able to hear the sounds of the choir singing actually in your ears clearly and cleanly as well.
[00:14:26]Janice Lintz: [00:14:26] It's also think about it in houses.
[00:14:30] You're also asking people to donate money until you need them to come. People need to be able to hear the ask. So if they can't hear, they ask, they can't give, so you'll see induction loops in a lot of houses of worship. Because they've gotten it. You need people to come. If otherwise there's no value to that person.
[00:14:50] If they stop coming and they stop coming because they stopped hearing. So it doesn't matter what the religion is. Houses of worship are really, they get why [00:15:00] they should put in the induction limbs. Because if you can't hear, they ask you, okay. It boils down to also money that right there.
[00:15:06]Scott Maderer: [00:15:06] And that kind of brings us to the obvious question because there is cost involved in doing all of this. So from, why do you think businesses, governments, houses of worship, all of these different entities, why is it important that they even provide for those, with the hearing.
[00:15:22]Janice Lintz: [00:15:22] Just from a common sense point of view, right? Like from a con on taking the common sense approach, it's a human right. And it's civil, right? Imagine just excluding people from the experience. And people seem to understand racism, but they don't understand ableism, which is the equivalent of racism against people with disabilities.
[00:15:42] And so if you, for example, tell somebody Rosa parks. Won her case. Rightfully because no one should tell her where to sit on the bus. Because taking a bus is not about going from point a to point B. It's also about the expense. If you take that same concept and you [00:16:00] apply it to hearing access or any disability discrimination, it's about the experience.
[00:16:05] So when someone goes to a bank and they can't hear the person and someone else says, oh, no, you don't need to hear, you can pass notes. That's about changing the experience for that person. And it's really not different than telling somebody where they can sit on them. In my opinion. And so it putting it in is good business sense.
[00:16:31] It communicates to all their customers. We are welcoming place, too many people and businesses use. Accessibility as a PR or a tagline. Oh yes. Work stuff. We're accessible. We're ADA compliant. I really love when people say that because there is no ADA checklist and there is no certification.
[00:16:52] So that's a falsehood right there. Whenever they say that, I'm like, okay, I don't know who you're relying on, but that's an inaccurate statement. [00:17:00] You may have received your certificate of occupancy from the buildings department to open your doors because you are wheelchair accessible. That doesn't mean you're ADA compliant because there is no ADA compliant certification anywhere in the country.
[00:17:13]And so do, when you put up the science symbols of access and there is meaningful access behind it, not you just, there's another bank that has the oldest symbols on their front door. There's no access behind it for people with hearing loss. I don't really understand how they have that symbol on the door because it doesn't exist.
[00:17:31] And it's nobody really knows what the symbol is there. So it's like it's good business. People also seem to forget that people with disabilities or in my case, my topic hearing loss. They don't travel in packs. It's not like when you go to a theater or a hotel, okay. Here, come all the people with disabilities, or here comes all the people with hearing loss.
[00:17:54] It doesn't work like that. When they go, for example, to an amusement park, they're bringing [00:18:00] all their friends, but if they can't go, they may choose another option of going somewhere else where they can go. You lose business and it's really good business sense and companies are leaving money on the table.
[00:18:13] And I think part of it is they don't really understand, they see the out-of-pocket costs, but it's They put in ramps for people to enter the building. They put in a wheelchair accessible bathroom. Do they ever measure the number of people who use that toilet? No. It's just there because they have to likely somebody passed
[00:18:32] Scott Maderer: [00:18:32] a law and said they have to put it there.
[00:18:34] So they put it there.
[00:18:34]Janice Lintz: [00:18:34] But for hearing access, it's programmatic access. And sometimes people will ask to justify the numbers, but you can't. The problem is when you activate that induction loop, you can't see who is using. But, you have people coming who are happy and hopefully they'll leave.
[00:18:49] Good. I always encourage people with hearing loss to take that extra burden. Let the company know you used it, let them know how great it is. So they have some data because [00:19:00] businesses are driven by data. And even though we know there are 40 million people with some form of hearing loss, if they get a few compliments that really will help add the action.
[00:19:08] But I will say neither Lander theaters in New York city had started with induction loops in their theaters for Hamilton was one of the first theaters. And now as a renovate, because in the Broadway theaters, you have to put it on the floor under the seats. Look, the rug it's really complicated.
[00:19:25] It's not always that complicated. You have to collaborate. But it's not always so complicated, but Broadway theaters are a whole different animal. And as they renovate every theater, they are putting induction Libsyn because they get it. The people who come to daytime matinees are older adults. It's good business.
[00:19:44] And they're having such incredible success. They eliminated the PA the company who's distributing device, a large majority of the devices. So it helps cut down. They don't have to worry about breakage. They don't have to worry about complaints. When people are going to the theater, no one wants to wear a stigmatizing device.
[00:20:00] [00:20:00] They just don't want to. They want to be able to just be in control of their own access.
[00:20:06] Scott Maderer: [00:20:06] So we're going to kind of transition and ask some questions that I try to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else that you'd like to share with the Lister about your program or some of the topics that we've talked about today?
[00:20:21] Janice Lintz: [00:20:21] I think it's really important when people need access. They speak up it's easier said than done, but I will say if you want to affect change in your local, whatever businesses. The best way to do it is to contact the head of the company or the CEO. What director don't go through visitor access.
[00:20:41] Don't go through accessibility. You want the head of the company to know the issue, because until you get buy-in from the CEO or the director, there is no money tied to fixing this. And when you go through the access coordinator, it just doesn't happen. The only way to affect significant [00:21:00] change is by going to the right.
[00:21:01] And having done this now for 19 years, I have never had a single project happen by going through the designated person. Every single success was done by going to whoever is running the organization. And if that person doesn't hear you, then you have to go even higher and figure out who their lovers are, who the left, who triggers you there levers whether it's a government agency or.
[00:21:28] Board members or their donors or someone, but don't bother if I have learned anything, don't bother going from the bottom because it just doesn't work. It'll just spin your wheels. But when you come from the top and then the person asks you to work with that access coordinator, then. That CEO or director has already given buy in to work with this person.
[00:21:54] And then if you aren't getting success, you can go back to them because that was your starting point. And you're not [00:22:00] going above someone's head. But I share that because I think we need to speed this up across the country, that access, and I need more people to engage in it. And I think understanding the secret sauce of how to effect significant change quickly.
[00:22:16] Is what my goal is to pass down the secret sauce.
[00:22:19]Scott Maderer: [00:22:19] So I try to ask all my guests, this, my, my tagline is inspired stewardship. That's my brand stewardship is an important concept to me. And I honestly think, the topic we're talking about today falls into that category of stewardship in my mind. So what does stewardship mean to you and what is its impact been on your life?
[00:22:42]Janice Lintz: [00:22:42] I'm not sure how, tell me how you use stewardship.
[00:22:44]Scott Maderer: [00:22:44] I don't want to tell you how I use
[00:22:46]Everyone has a different definition and that's actually part of the value is I'm trying to undercover how people do it. The technical definition of stewardship is caring for the resources that you've been. And that's the, [00:23:00] Google, if you want to Google it, that's the technical definition taking care of the resources that you've been given.
[00:23:04] So stewardship of the earth is taking care of the earth research sources. Financial stewardship is taking care of financial Stuart, financial resources, a company we'll talk about stewardship, which means they're taking care of the resources that they've got, whatever that is. So it can be used in a lot of different ways.
[00:23:20] That's kind of part of the point of Of the question is how do you think of it? Or how would you use that word?
[00:23:27] Janice Lintz: [00:23:27] Interesting. No, it's I know the definition, but I, it's not a word that I frequently use. But I think of it is like my stewardship is how I give back to the community. So that's why I was asking how you mean it because Michael, so many people help.
[00:23:44] My daughter who did, by the way, ends up going to an Ivy league university.
[00:23:49] Scott Maderer: [00:23:49] She got the special school after all, but that's not quite the way the doctor meant in the
[00:23:53] Janice Lintz: [00:23:53] first place. Exactly. She did. She did get that special school, but so many people have. [00:24:00] Along the way, similar to it does, as Hillary Clinton said, it does take a village to accomplish anything.
[00:24:06] Great. So for me, my stewardship is giving back and making sure that I help other places. And I think that's part of when you ask at the beginning of the show, like what drives me? I got so much help from so many people. Some people view it as like I'm a lone Wolf, which is falsehood because.
[00:24:25] There's no way I could accomplish so many projects in so many different fields without so many people helping me. So I in just as Senator, hurricane called me once which I forgot until I just repeated this. I'm the point on the sword, right? Someone has to start it. So my stewardship is being the point on the sword.
[00:24:45] I am unafraid to put my head on the chopping block and speak up and call people out for bad. Yeah. I have zero problem with them. I've zero problem. Going to the top of any organization reaching out to presidents or prime ministers. [00:25:00] That's my Mo we have a mutual friend, Ruth , who broke when I reached out to the queen of England.
[00:25:06] And she wrote about that in Forbes, but I regularly will email prime ministers or presidents and ask for it. And I'm bold about that. So being, I understand a lot of people are afraid to do that. So for some reason I'm not. So my gift back is doing that so that the access is put into place to help everyone who's helped me.
[00:25:29]You can never pay it back the same way, but you can pay it forward. So I paid forward by doing this. This seems to be my mission and path in life, and I love doing it. I actually. It was thrust upon me, but it is something that I really passionately love. Yeah.
[00:25:47] Scott Maderer: [00:25:47] So Janice, if I picked you up today, I invented a magic machine where I could pull you into the future a hundred years, 150 years, 50 years, whatever it is.
[00:25:58] But you go into the [00:26:00] future and you were able to look back on your life. What's some of the impact that you hope you've had on the world.
[00:26:07] Janice Lintz: [00:26:07] No, I'm actually really pleased about I think I've had the benefit. If you could call, I think once you've had cancer, you have a quick moment of evaluating your life.
[00:26:19] Have you accomplished and done everything you want to do? And I think I've had this incredible benefit from that. So I'm working on a project of making the world accessible. For people with hearing loss, working on changing legislation in various states and countries, which to me is so meaningful.
[00:26:41] So on a professional level, I've had a very meaningful life. A couple of years ago, I had always wanted to travel to every country in the world. And when I had cancer, which thankfully is in some remission I had. I really valuation moment. And so I had, during the [00:27:00] past couple of years taken out, I do frequent flyer points is one of my hobbies.
[00:27:03] And I took out EDD credit cards over five years and earned 2.7 million points and signup bonuses. And I use those points to take a two year sabbatical to travel on my quest to every country in the world. So I've been to now 194 countries, territories and unrecognized needs. And then my final thing is I've the other one of my last checklists things was, I always wanted to go back to school to Harvard and I applied this year, thanks to Ruth giving me prodding.
[00:27:36]And I was accepted to Harvard Kennedy school. And I'm hoping by going to Harvard's Kennedy school, that I am going to be able to take hearing access to the next level and see where I go from there. I think like I've let a good life like a really full life. Like my checklists are pretty checked off and the things that I didn't check off so far, I've reevaluate that [00:28:00] were unimportant.
[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Scott Maderer: [00:28:00] So what's coming next for you as you continue on this journey and continue this battle, you just mentioned going to Harvard, but what else is
[00:28:07] Janice Lintz: [00:28:07] coming up? My goal is to work on legislation connections. So in various countries, like in Canada, they're creating their disability act. The European union is creating a disability act.
[00:28:18] The America has ADA. My goal is to connect all of these disabilities acts. Every country of course has proprietary. Language or access is either effective or it's not, I didn't care what country you're in. This three prong approach. It's not if you go to Canada or you go to Europe that suddenly they're going to figure out.
[00:28:39] Better right. That, no we, there may be technology that's improved, but the concept, the core concept of needing to bring it visual auditory and an unqualified interpretation, whatever the sign language is, it's not going to change in the near future, unless there's a way to this is a term that's hated in the hearing loss community, but.
[00:29:00] [00:28:59] Hearing loss, right? Unless you're, and if you want to be fixed, quote, being fixed, and I'm not suggesting someone should be fixed or not be fixed, but unless you eliminate the hearing loss altogether, you're still going to always need this three-pronged approach. I would like to make sure that every country.
[00:29:17] Has the three-prong approach, not only within the country, but also in their legislation. And so one of my goals right now is working on and helping countries with legislation to ensure that there's a consistency around the world and that we all learn from each other's errors and put each of our egos on the Tito to the site so that we can really have effective communication Chimp globally, for people with hearing loss.
[00:29:45] Scott Maderer: [00:29:45] Awesome. So you can find out more about Janice lense over at Janice Lynn's dot com and more about hearing access in the work she's doing there over@hearingaccess.com. Janice, is [00:30:00] there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
[00:30:02]Janice Lintz: [00:30:02] Yeah, I think one of the things people always ask me is how to affect change and what is the one thing they can do to affect meaningful change for whatever the topic is.
[00:30:14] And the one thing that is so simple, but yet so many people fail to do is to follow through. I am always amazed how few people ever follow through on whatever it is they want to do. They write one letter, one phone call. It takes more than one. I will tell you some of my contacts. It's been four. Sometimes it's nine.
[00:30:38] Sometimes it's 92. And I will put numbers in the subject line to let people know how many times, and I will keep a phone log to document how many times I've reached out to places. But the persistence and follow through are, I think the distinguishing features of why I've been so successful. It's not any other talent.
[00:31:00] [00:30:59] It's just, I show up. And I think so many people are afraid to show up and be persistent. And that's the only way things are going to change is by being persistent and showing up.
[00:31:12]Scott Maderer: [00:31:12] So much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast, as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/.
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