Episode 921: Invest in Others - Interview with Sharon Grossman author of the 7E solution to burnout - Part 2
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 921 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:07]Sharon Grossman: [00:00:07] I'm Dr. Sharon Grossman. I challenge you to invest in yourself. Invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to avoid burning out is key.
[00:00:26] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mason.
[00:00:34]and if the thought is they're going to find out, and there's a belief that I am actually inadequate and that they're going to figure this out. And no matter how much success I have, it's never enough because I'm not enough. Then you spend a lot of time worrying. And a lot of time living in fear and you can't enjoy your successes.
[00:00:57] Scott Maderer: [00:00:57] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the [00:01:00] inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you.
[00:01:21] Can impact the work
[00:01:23]in today's interview with Dr. Sharon Grossman. I asked Sharon about therapy and coaching and why they are different, but both can be used to help you avoid burnout. I also asked Sharon to share with you why trying to do it all yourself is often. And Sharon also talks with you about work-life balance and what that can really mean.
[00:01:45] One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find [00:02:00] it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
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[00:02:34] Dr. Sharon Grossman is the Arthur of the international bestseller. The seven easy solution to burnout, transforming high achievers from exhausted to extraordinary. She's the founder of the exhausted to extraordinary model. And over the past 19 years has helped over 500 physicians, entrepreneurs and executives reshape their thinking and go from fried and frazzled to energized and [00:03:00] exhilarated.
[00:03:01] Welcome to the show.
[00:03:02] Sharon Grossman: [00:03:02] Thanks so much for
[00:03:03] Scott Maderer: [00:03:03] having me. So one of the things that I know you've talked about in the past is using both therapy and coaching and how these work to deal with stress and with burnout. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between counseling therapy kind of focus and coaching focus and why one may be useful over the other for particular cases or particular people or situations.
[00:03:28] Yeah.
[00:03:28] Sharon Grossman: [00:03:28] So the big difference I would say is that therapy is meant to help you increase functioning and decreased distress. If you are experiencing, let's say depression, then that would be an appropriate place to go to find help. You would see a therapist and they would work with you on how to really.
[00:03:54] Change some of those helpless thoughts that you have and hope you get [00:04:00] activated if you are maybe doing okay overall, but you want to improve your performance, your confidence and things like that. That's where you go to coaching. Typically and coaches are a lot more focused on mindset and how should I say how to just do better, how to grow, if you're a business owner, there's business, coaches that talk to you about that.
[00:04:28] So I, I think at least the way that I approach it is I am somebody who likes to empower my clients. So I never want to create that sense of dependency. I see my job as. Helping you build up your toolbox so that you can then be able to do a lot of this work on your own. So we were just talking about emotional intelligence.
[00:04:53] If I teach you that skill, you'll be able to apply it for yourself in all [00:05:00] situations. So I think. Part of it is teaching you the skills. I think the other part that's huge in coaching is the accountability, because a lot of times we know what to do, but we still don't do it. And that's because we need somebody else that can check in with us and make sure that we're on target.
[00:05:22] The other piece that I would say that's really powerful in this work is working on the. The shift in beliefs. And the reason for that is because we can do this mindset work all day long, but at the end of the day, if we believe that we are inadequate, that we are not deserving, that we are not lovable, then we're going to sabotage.
[00:05:49] We're going to get in our own way. We're going to play small. We're going to just prevent the success that we want. And all of our fears are going to come in. And I've [00:06:00] actually had people say to me, as we're doing this work, that they stopped doing the work. And when I asked them what got in the way they said they had this fear of success.
[00:06:12] Which is a real thing. We often talk about a fear of failure. Oh, what if I do this? And it doesn't work. But then on the other side of that, there's a fear of what if it does work. And then that's where all the identity stuff comes in. And that's where I spent a lot of time coaching my clients because it's jarring to think about if I'm not this person that I've been my entire life.
[00:06:33] And I'm not like sabotaging myself and I'm not anxious and I'm not, playing small. Who will I be? I don't even know who that person is. And that's scary. We talked in the beginning about the unfamiliar piece and how that can be anxiety provoking. So is success for people who aren't familiar with success.
[00:06:52]We talk a lot about these kinds of issues. Really deep, but make a huge difference in our experiences [00:07:00] at work and in our personal lives.
[00:07:03] Scott Maderer: [00:07:03] And one of the other places I've saved that fear of success show up is in the, what we call imposter syndrome. If I succeed suddenly, they're going to find out that I'm really not able to do what I thought, what I've been doing.
[00:07:13]They're going to find, they're going to figure it out, cause I just been faking it all this time, even though you probably haven't been thinking it, but that's the internal feeling as well.
[00:07:22] Sharon Grossman: [00:07:22] Yeah, that's actually one of the three mindsets that I talk about. I have a webinar that I teach, and that is one of the three mindsets that I talk about that leads to burnout because you live in that constant fear and that is a huge energy drain.
[00:07:39] And if we know that part of burnout is just like you run out of steam right then. You have to look at what are the things that are draining your energy. And a lot of it is your thoughts. And if the thought is they're going to find that. And there's a belief that I am [00:08:00] actually inadequate and that they're going to figure this out.
[00:08:03] And no matter how much success I have, it's never enough because I'm not enough. Then you spend a lot of time worrying and a lot of time living in fear and you can't enjoy your successes. And it's always like exerting more and more energy and never really feeling replenished or like you've arrived.
[00:08:22] And that's just really a recipe for burnout. I think that if, if anybody's listening to this and they're thinking, oh, that's me and I struggle with this. And I have a lot of clients who actually deal with this stuff. That's something that I talk about in my webinars.
[00:08:36]We'll share that link actually at the end so that you can check it out.
[00:08:41] Scott Maderer: [00:08:41] Absolutely. Yeah. That would be a, I know imposter syndrome. In clients that I've worked with and other coaches that I've worked with, know, I know people that have been coaching 10, 12 years at a successful coaching business and are still like, and I just don't think I'm that good of a coach.
[00:08:56]Wait a minute, my, my Amy objective measure, [00:09:00] you're doing a great job. How can you feel this? But it's that feeling that internal imposter syndrome of sooner or later, they're going to figure out, I really don't know what I'm doing.
[00:09:07]Sharon Grossman: [00:09:07] And I actually see this with a lot of entrepreneurs and especially coaches and what they do to overcompensate for them.
[00:09:16] Sense of inadequacy is, or that imposter syndrome is that they get a million trainings. They're just signing up all over the place for more trainings and more certifications. And they're like maybe if I take this, then I'll know enough to help people.
[00:09:32] Scott Maderer: [00:09:32] If I get this piece of paper, then the suddenly I'll feel adequate.
[00:09:35] Yeah.
[00:09:36] Sharon Grossman: [00:09:36] Yeah. There's another trap, right? Because you already probably know a lot. If you have 12 years of experience, That's a lot of years and you've worked with a lot of people and you've probably got a lot of success stories of people that you've helped. So you probably don't need that additional training or certification.
[00:09:57] That's not to say that you, you shouldn't. [00:10:00] Continue to grow and learn and expand your toolkit. I I'm always studying new methodologies and looking for more interesting things. And I think that's what that's, for me, at least the cool thing about being an entrepreneur is that I have that freedom that I can go in whatever direction I want and I can develop myself and my skill set and I can niche in this way or that way.
[00:10:20]But it doesn't come from a place of, I have to. Or else I'll fail. It comes from, I want to write and I think that's a big distinction. It's
[00:10:31]Scott Maderer: [00:10:31] Are you learning because you want to learn a new skill? Are you learning? Because if you somehow don't learn this new skill. You won't be any good, in a way, or it will not make you better, but it will make you worthy in a way.
[00:10:45]Yeah, it's the underlying drive behind it, I think sometimes and that's a little harder to suss out sometimes for us as well. So last week we talked about, when I did my lower self confession moment of, going through a period where I was [00:11:00] undergoing stress and burnout, because I was trying to do it all myself.
[00:11:04] I obviously I'm not alone in that. I know that's one of the things that shows up for other people. And one of the things that I think can help is in a lot of times we're able to work with a team or we're able to bring in other people as well. How can we do team formation in a way that's healthy so that, basically so that it doesn't create burnout in the team, but helps the whole team avoid burnout.
[00:11:30] If that makes sense.
[00:11:31] Sharon Grossman: [00:11:31] As you asked this question, it brings to mind one of my clients who is working in a sales role and everybody on her team had obviously their individual Cap or, there, how many sales are we're supposed to make their quota. Yes. And so the approach that she took, which I thought was actually really beautiful is she would sess out if towards the end of the month, which is when their cutoff was before they start the clock over.
[00:11:59] If [00:12:00] she knew she wasn't going to make her quota, she would then go and help all of her teammates meet theirs. And then on months when she was really close to meeting her quota and they weren't really close to theirs, they would then help her meet hers. And I think that's actually a beautiful way of working in a team where you've got each other's back.
[00:12:21] And it's not about that one upmanship or I'm better than you. It's more about we're in this together and we're supporting each other and it just feels. Like a more inviting place to work when you know that you're amongst people that have your back.
[00:12:39]Scott Maderer: [00:12:39] So let's step back and look at it from the other end. If you're a leader or you're in a leadership position in an organization, what are some of the things you can look for? Or you can recognize in your team and your employees that may be an indicator that, burnout is coming on.
[00:12:57] And then what actions or what they, what are things that leaders [00:13:00] can take to help their team avoid it?
[00:13:02]Sharon Grossman: [00:13:02] I think one thing is so much of burnout can be part of a culture as well. So if you're noticing. So if it is a cultural thing, then you're probably not going to notice it because probably everybody is working a million hours and everyone is going to be burning out.
[00:13:20] However if it's not really the culture, but you see somebody who is overworking, who never takes vacations, they don't take their lunch. They're eating lunch at their desk. Those kinds of signs you might. Have a conversation with them and encourage them to take more time to take care of themselves. You might check in and see how are they really doing?
[00:13:44]I think too often we're focusing in on productivity and we're not really focusing in on the person. Again what would really be helpful ideally is to have a kind of culture where all this is baked in, where you have that expectation that [00:14:00] people take their vacation time, that they take their lunch breaks, that you have maybe team building, or you have some way for them to feel connected and.
[00:14:12] Not burn themselves to the ground with all the work and then continue to support your team and the people that are working under you by providing. Ongoing trainings on how to, and, it could be like time management and how to be more productive, but it can also be what a lot of companies are now doing are like mindset, trainings.
[00:14:35] And actually there's a lot of research. And I actually wrote about this in my book that these companies that have invested in these mindset trainings have actually found that it has substantially increased productivity, which means that. It was a great return on investment for them. So whatever they paid for the training, they probably like 10 times their, their investment with [00:15:00] the amount that people were able to produce without the stress after that.
[00:15:04] So I think you have to really be creative and I would suggest highly asking your employees what they need. What they want, what would help them? It's always good to get input and go from there.
[00:15:20] Scott Maderer: [00:15:20] We've talked about a little bit about work-life balance. You mentioned that earlier this episode and the previous episode as well. So what are some of the things that we can do? Know, whether we're an entrepreneur, whether we're an employee that can help foster a healthy work-life balance.
[00:15:40] Sharon Grossman: [00:15:41] It's funny because. There are a lot of people today that are allergic to this term life balance. And I think part of the problem is that the, again, define it in a certain way. That feels like it's impossible. Balance indicates that it's a 50, 50 split. And so just to [00:16:00] start off, I'd like to offer that it's not meant to be an exact.
[00:16:06] We're really looking for some people call it integration. We're looking for a way where you feel balanced. It doesn't have to be 50 50, but you feel like you're grounded. You're energized. You feel okay. And that's what we're going for. So the question is how do we. Cultivate more of that in our life?
[00:16:27]I think that the simple answer is to have more things planned out in advance. What people typically do is they will plan for everything except for their self-care. They leave that to the end and they're like, oh, I don't have time. And I would advise people to do it in reverse where you first.
[00:16:50] Plan for your self-care and then plan everything else around that. So for instance, I have a client who was going, this is prior to COVID was [00:17:00] going to yoga classes in the morning before work. And so she knew exactly where it is when it is all the things. And so she would get her gear and go in the morning and then come home and shower and go to work.
[00:17:16]When you have a plan like that, Then, when things are happening and you don't leave it up to chance. I think that's a simple answer. The more kind of profound, the answer that I like to share that people actually know a lot about self care already. We've been hearing about it forever in the news from other people we know it's important, we just don't do it.
[00:17:43] And the question is why, and I don't think it's. We don't know what to do. I think it's that there's a deeper thing that gets in the way. And that is that you may not value yourself enough. And one of the things [00:18:00] I recently talked to one of my clients about is if it were somebody else, what would you do?
[00:18:05] And they say we would make time for them, but if you're not making time for yourself, Then it's a question of worth, and then you have to work on that.
[00:18:14]Scott Maderer: [00:18:14] Yeah. I love the idea of putting it on, first making a commitment to yourself first. And I think the two things you said are related, because again, I think some of the times, the reason that we don't put it on our calendar first or block it off first is because we.
[00:18:30] It's a self-worth thing, we've got to leave ourselves for last instead of putting ourselves first as well.
[00:18:36] Sharon Grossman: [00:18:36] Yep. That's more often than not the case. And it's like that whole time management question where people are always like, oh, I don't get my stuff done, or I don't have time for this and that.
[00:18:49]We all know so much about time and managed by this point. And I think ultimately we just, aren't doing the things that we know. And then you got to ask the question why [00:19:00] not? And that really leads you to the underlying beliefs. And that's where the work really begins.
[00:19:06]Scott Maderer: [00:19:06] You can find out more about Sharon over on her website. At Dr. Sharon grossman.com. There, you can take a free quiz. You can set up a call to find out more about her coaching. You can find out her podcast and more about our upcoming speaking events, webinars, and other events like that. Obviously there's more information as well about the book and a teachable course as well, built around that 70 solution for burnout.
[00:19:33] Of course, I'll have links to all of that in the show notes. Sharon, is there anything else that you'd like to share with us?
[00:19:38] Sharon Grossman: [00:19:38] I know that sometimes when you listen to podcasts, you feel like it's a one-sided conversation. And so what I encourage you to do is take some of the things that you've heard, if they resonate and think about what you're going to do with that information, because the transformation happens as a result of taking [00:20:00] action.
[00:20:00] Yeah. As a result of having more information. So I want you to really sit down and think about what am I going to take away and what am I going to start implementing so that I can start to see the shifts in my life. And if you do that and you have some results, I would love to hear from you. So feel free to contact me on my website and let me know about your story.
[00:20:23] I would love to hear it and even share it.
[00:20:25]Scott Maderer: [00:20:25] thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode. Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
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