Episode 906: Develop Your Influence - Interview with Roger Whitney the Retirement Answer Man – Part 3
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 906 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:08] Roger Whitney: [00:00:08] Hey, I'm Roger Whitney. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling, having the ability to work for your future.
[00:00:22] As a key, having the ability to work for one more sec, having the ability. Having the ability to work for your future is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.
[00:00:45]So again, we're standing on the middle of the, teeter-totter trying to balance the two amps. And so when we think about race, On one end of the teeter-totter is losing my money. And that's [00:01:00] meaning I've put a dollar in real estate or in stocks, as you say, and it goes down by 20% or I lose it all and it takes, and it's a hard thing because it takes a lot of work to earn money.
[00:01:11] Scott Maderer: [00:01:11] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:36]In today's interview with Roger Whitney, the retirement answer, man, I asked Roger about leadership and why this matters for influence. I also ask Roger to share why the fear of risk holds many people back from investing and what we can actually do about it. And Roger also talks with you about our professional network and why that's important.
[00:01:58] When we think about retirement, [00:02:00] you've heard me talk about developing your team. And what are the best ways to do that is through books. But if you're like most people today, it's hard to find the time to read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial.
[00:02:22] There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And you can pick one and listen your way to developing your talents via. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast. Anyone who thinks retirement planning is boring.
[00:02:46] Clearly hasn't had a conversation with the retirement answer, man, and is not so alter ego. Roger Whitney, his fun, fresh perspective on money in life. Turns financial planning from something people need [00:03:00] to do to something they can't wait to do. Roger breaks with traditional financial planning and asserting that there is no.
[00:03:07] Magic number or accurate retirement calculator. There is just you and your financial planner, having the right conversations, finding confident answers to meaningful questions and setting your priorities according to how you want to live and keep living your life long after you stop. So last week, we explored a little bit about the word stewardship.
[00:03:32] And so this week I'm going to ask you for another word definition, because again, it's a word that I've discovered over the years. A lot of people use this word in different ways. And so as we think about developing influence or influencing others, the word that usually comes up around that is leadership.
[00:03:50] So how would you actually define the word leadership?
[00:03:54]Roger Whitney: [00:03:54] Like last week was stewardship. I didn't look this word up.
[00:03:58]I guess I'm a [00:04:00] leader in my business. I have a team, they look to me. And when I feel like I'm being a good leader is when I actually know where the heck I want to go. So I think a big part of leadership is having a clear vision for where you're taking the people or the resources that you're leading when I don't have a clear vision of where I want to go.
[00:04:34] And I actually would tell you, I'm in that position right now. And I'm re-evaluating because I've gotten to the place I was leading to.
[00:04:44]That's when leadership starts to falter, it's like a boat that starts to get dead in the water. And if the leader doesn't know where they want to take that boat, the next [00:05:00] destination, they start to flounder. They start to. Pick different directions, try too many things. And that confuses the team, the family, and it starts to degrade the confidence in the leader.
[00:05:20] And it also starts to squander resources if you're dead in the water for too long. And so I think the key to a good leader is really having a compelling vision. Of where you want to go and then start to
[00:05:38]express that vision to the team. This could be to yourself, to lobby for that vision, with your family, with your team, to yourself, and create a compelling vision that gets people excited. So we just had with our team, every February, we have. This is what happened last year, [00:06:00] obviously, in their job compensation.
[00:06:03] And this is where we're going. And what I have found is what I what's expressed to me. Let me say it that way with the team. And I also think with, listeners of the podcast, they liked the mission. A lot of them there are because of the mission that we're on. And they want to be part of that, which is not just surviving retirement, but rocking retirement TA helping people create a great life.
[00:06:34]Beyond the money, my team is very motivated by that mission. I think listeners that like the show anyway, resonate with that. I think that's what leadership is.
[00:06:49]Scott Maderer: [00:06:49] So last week we talked a little bit about relationships. And two weeks ago, you actually told the story of one of your friends who does the four year intensive. And then because he's [00:07:00] developed a great professional network is able to take a year off and then return back to work. When you think about our professional network, we also, you also talked a little bit about how in someone retires, a lot of times they quote, lose their friends because their friends were at work.
[00:07:13] How does what we do around our network our relationships or professional networking. What does that look like? And how does that impact the decisions we make around retirement?
[00:07:23]Roger Whitney: [00:07:23] They're a little bit, they're two different questions. Yep. But they, I think they coincide with each other
[00:07:29]when you're investing in your network that I'm not talking about. Go into the, there's a lot of value in this. I don't want to demean it, but going to the chamber of commerce and handing out your business card everywhere. Going to the chamber of commerce or the rotary is a great way to find your people and make friends.
[00:07:53]The stereotype it's really everybody, all the insurance and financial advisor guys handing out their business cards. That's the bad way to do it. [00:08:00] It's really about finding people that you connect with and then intentionally nurturing those people consistently what ends up happening.
[00:08:11] So in early in life, it's really about connecting with people and. Checking in on them. Yeah. I think if you and I, Scott, we're like conference buddies, right? The only time we interact is usually at a conference
[00:08:26] Scott Maderer: [00:08:26] once in a while at a conference, we haven't seen each other for a year and a half or two.
[00:08:30] Yeah.
[00:08:31] Roger Whitney: [00:08:31] And, but that's the value of social media probably. One of the few values of social media via Twitter and other things we've been able to check in on each other and have random email exchanges or Twitter exchanges, or what have you. So we keep that fresh. But the reason we do that is because when we chat, we connected and we saw some shared values.
[00:08:59] I'm speaking [00:09:00] from my perspective. Now I'm not going to speak for you. We saw some shared values. We saw someone who's an active thinker. That we enjoyed communicating with. And so you and I are perfect example of how do you invest in your network? It's when you bump into people that you resonate with, you lean in a little bit in whatever way that you can.
[00:09:23] Now that in profession that's different than professional networking. That's an element of professional networking, but when we talk about the transition towards retirement, what ends up happening a lot of times is either. People are running so hard that they don't have friends outside of work, or they're running so hard that they don't have any friends at all, but they're just consumed in the work and the meetings and the travel and everything else.
[00:09:51] And so when they retire, th the old story is your coworker. Yeah. Johnny, I'm going, yeah, we'll have lunch next week. It never happens. Or rarely, yeah. [00:10:00] And so it's easy to find yourself a drift without any friends, and that can feel, and it's harder to make friends when you're older, especially if you're not used to it, it's not like college or high school. And so it can start to put you on this path of becoming isolated. Like it's funny. I actually have some. Issues here that I'm trying to figure out. So I'm going to lay on the couch for a second and let you counsel me. No, I have a lot of amazing friends, but I've gone too far.
[00:10:36] The other direction. None of them live near me. I have one friend within 10, 15 miles that I could call and go have a beer with or go have coffee with. I have a, I have real strong friendships, but they live. All over the country, just because of nature. So that's a deficiency where I'm at. But ultimately it always comes down to relationships, finding [00:11:00] a job, having that person you can call at 3:00 AM when you're really need someone to just be an ear and you got to cultivate those.
[00:11:11] They don't happen naturally, very often.
[00:11:15] Scott Maderer: [00:11:15] So let's go a little bit more practical too. We've talked a lot about retirement and this is another one of those mindset things. I think as much as anything, I'll hear people that push back against retirement planning because. There's a risk that comes along with investing, and pick your animal, right?
[00:11:35]If they're a fan of the stock market, they're worried about the risk and real estate. If they're a fan of real estate, then they tell you that the stock markets do re you know, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. There's always a risk. So how can people approach that kind of thought process?
[00:11:49] Because obviously there is a, there is anywhere else. That's not wrong, but how can we approach that more thoughtful? Do you like pie? I'm okay with pie. Yeah.
[00:12:00] [00:12:00] Roger Whitney: [00:12:00] Do you like cake?
[00:12:02] Scott Maderer: [00:12:02] I'm usually not a big sweet Skinner. So honestly you're asking, I'm not even like chocolates, but I'll eat cake or all the pot German.
[00:12:10] How about this? We do we'll do a red velvet cake. That's my favorite
[00:12:14] Roger Whitney: [00:12:14] red velvet cake. I think the way you approach this from a risk perspective. Is by creating what I call a pie cake. A cake that is layered in each layer is a different pie. Okay. All right. And the pie represents a pie chart, which is an asset allocation, right?
[00:12:34] All stocks, all real estate are all cash or some mix of all those things. And so the last three weeks, or the last two weeks, we brought up this concept of the teeter-totter. So let's stick with that.
[00:12:47] Scott Maderer: [00:12:47] We got a third teeter-totter. This is getting to me over here.
[00:12:50] Roger Whitney: [00:12:50] I got a third teeter-totter. So again, we're standing on the middle of the, teeter-totter trying to balance the two ends.
[00:12:58] And so when we think about [00:13:00] risk on one end of the teeter-totter is losing my money. Meaning, I put a dollar in real estate or in stocks, as you say, and it goes down by 20% or I lose it all right. And it takes, and it's a hard thing because it takes a lot of work to earn money on the other end of the teeter-totter is losing the value of the dollar that you own.
[00:13:23]And that's the I think the quiet defund, the night that Reagan talks about inflation. Where, as you get older, you realize, wow. Things cost a lot more. I think that we looked at the house that we bought. Out of when we first got married back in the early nineties, it was $90,000.
[00:13:38] I think it goes for over, two, $300,000. Now it seems silly to me that's inflation. And so those are two different risks and those risks are primarily determined by time. How long is the money going to be there? The shorter term, the money, meaning the Sunni. You might [00:14:00] need it. The riskier a stock is, or a real estate investment is sure.
[00:14:04]Cause it's really crazy volatile. The longer term, the money, the more risky cash is, or your mattresses because it gets degraded or eaten up by inflation. So I think the way that you allocate a balance sheet, Is by building a pie cake. So essentially all the resources you have on your balance sheet, your checking accounts, your 401ks, your savings accounts, your ROS, et cetera.
[00:14:33] You need to allocate all of those into four different layers of your cake. Okay. Layer number one is going to be your cash reserve. Which is your financial airbag of life, right? The return is asymmetric. It feels very unproductive. Back to an airbags were an option. I think it was like two grand to add an airbag.
[00:14:55] So it added a lot to the cost of the car. It seemed like a silly expense, especially [00:15:00] if you've never been in a crash. But the return is asymmetric. If you get in a crash, it prevents your face from hitting the windshield, cash reserves. That's the airbag. The second is going to be the near term cash flow management.
[00:15:15] Meaning, while you're working, your cashflow is generally managed by your income it's covered, but then you have these extra ordinary things of, I got Sally going to school in two years to college, I've got to buy a car, we've got this vacation. So you want to build a. Reserve for those near, near term expenses, meaning over the next three to four years, you want to start building cash for those things.
[00:15:41] Once you've built those two layers of the pie cake. Now you're getting to money that at least has a five-year timeframe of before you might need it. Obviously life happens, but assuming it doesn't, that's when you can start to create a different kind of pie. That has some [00:16:00] stocks, maybe some bonds, maybe some real estate, because it has enough time to statistically set it up for success.
[00:16:10] And then the top layer of your pie cake is going to be a whole different flavor of pie, which is going to be your 10, 20, 30 year money, really long timeframe. That could be. Almost a hundred percent in stocks or a hundred percent real estate or in the business you're starting or whatever else, because statistically, it will have a likelihood of having a good outcome with that.
[00:16:38] Long of timeframe is pretty high. And so I think a lot of this idea of risk is thinking through these layers on your balance sheet. And figuring out how thick each layer should be based on where you're at in life and what your goals are and what your cashflow looks like. You do that. Now you have a name for [00:17:00] every dollar and it doesn't, it makes sense to you.
[00:17:04] And so it doesn't feel nearest.
[00:17:05] And you've eaten this amazing pie cake.
[00:17:08] Scott Maderer: [00:17:08] Yeah. You've had a pie cake, right? Yeah. And it's also because those pie layers are inner locked in different ways. You're mitigating some of the risk of each layer because of the other ones. Exactly. Yeah, exactly know you can't reduce it to zero, but you're mitigating is as much as you can.
[00:17:28] Yeah.
[00:17:29] Roger Whitney: [00:17:29] There's nothing worse than having the dollar at risk that you think you might need tomorrow. You start watching over watching it and over managing it because you're so worried about losing it.
[00:17:40] Scott Maderer: [00:17:40] So Ryder. I know, again, we mentioned earlier we're conference buddies and I've had the pleasure of seeing you talk a few times.
[00:17:47] Of course you do the podcast and those sorts of things as well. Which by the way, is a great podcast for folks. I'll put a link to it in the show notes as well. You've had the opportunity to do speaking in different forms. So when we think [00:18:00] about how people are working today, I think. There are a lot more opportunities for people to share their thoughts, share their mindset, share their beliefs, develop their influence, whatever name you want to give it through through speaking and interacting with people in that way.
[00:18:16] Can you share a few tips that you might have for folks about, how they can communicate through speaking, whether it's in there? I, again, I'll give you freedom of picking a context to layer it into, but any tips around that area?
[00:18:32] Roger Whitney: [00:18:32] I think the most, if you want to speak into the world, which I think we all should do, even if you never start a blog or a podcast or speak, you're still speaking when you're at the coffee shop, talking to your children or to your local community.
[00:18:51] I think the most important thing is actually having something to say.
[00:18:57]Right now. And I see this [00:19:00] right now. It's, there's a lot of people just wanting to be heard, but they haven't done a lot of work on what they actually stand for and what their view, what they're not leading back to leadership from last week. They don't have anything, any compelling vision that you're trying to lead people to.
[00:19:19] They just want to be heard. But they haven't really done any work of what they actually believe in what they want to communicate to the world and the change they would like to see. And I think if the more you can figure out on whatever subject you want, where you want to plant your flag and what you believe in the more you're going to gain traction and having people at least.
[00:19:50] And not just become part of the noise and it's a hard thing to do because it's intimidating. People might think [00:20:00] I'm an idiot. They're going to, some will definitely tell me I'm wrong. That's not comfortable. But that's really how you gain influence just by having something that you believe in that you want to say to the world and being willing to.
[00:20:16] Say it now. And I think of, so that's the biggest tip and you don't have to figure out what it is before you start talking. Let me clarify that. It's not like you have to go to some retreat or up on a mountain and write your manifesto and then come down. I'll like with my journey in the podcast, I started my podcast seven years ago, just as a person.
[00:20:38]Journey, of, I think out loud. I'm working on issues with clients. So I said I'm going to take an issue that I'm working on. And I'm just going to talk through it on a podcast because that makes me outline the issue. And explore the issue so I can sharpen my sauce. So I remember when I [00:21:00] was first starting the podcast, I was like, how do I set this up?
[00:21:02] So if nobody listens a year from now, it's a great success.
[00:21:05]The answer was that if nobody listens, it's a great success is if I have gotten more clear in my thinking into my opinions, through thinking through these issues outwardly. So I don't think you have to know what you want to say. You have to just start exploring it openly. And the good thing is if you do that publicly early, nobody's listening to anyway.
[00:21:30] So you don't have to worry about it, but it's a personal journey to figuring out what your values are. What do you believe in? I believe classical retirement planning is wrong. I believe it sets people up to sacrifice their life unnecessarily. I believe that in, what mutual fund or index you buy is one of the smallest levers.
[00:21:51] And we shouldn't be talking about. Yeah, I have very firm beliefs. I think that's the most important thing. And then [00:22:00] from there it's, once you are willing to go on this journey, my suggestion is figuring out what platform is most comfortable to you to be on this journey? It could literally be. I go to this coffee shop at 6:00 AM.
[00:22:19]About once a week. I started very recently partly because I want to go to a local coffee shop. Cause I don't know anybody where I live. I want to meet some people. And there are these four gentlemen that I met the first day. There were two tables over it and they go there six, 6:00 AM every day, except Wednesday.
[00:22:34] And they just chat about the Bible. Okay. And they have something to say. So for them, their pedestal or their platform is the coffee shop. And they were like, would you like to join us? And I haven't yet, but they're two tables over and I can hear we chat friendly, but their platform is getting together.
[00:22:55] 6:00 AM at the coffee shop and just chatting with three or four friends that could be your [00:23:00] platform, right? It could be a blog that nobody reads. It could be a podcast that nobody listens to. It could be letters to yourself. It could be talking to your children. It could be a church group. It doesn't have to be an influencer.
[00:23:13]Because you want to find the platform that's comfortable for you. Like with podcasting, it's comfortable for me because I think out loud and I enjoy it. And a lot of the success from our show has been one. I feel like I have something to say. And two, I haven't missed a week in seven years because I enjoy it.
[00:23:32]I tried blogging. I didn't, that was not my platform. I did not enjoy that. So you have to figure out something that you're willing to do consistent. Alright now,
[00:23:40]Scott Maderer: [00:23:40] Similar reason that's one of the reasons I podcast is because it's like, writing is not fun to me, but I can talk all day long, put a microphone in front of me and I'm fine.
[00:23:47] Roger Whitney: [00:23:47] It doesn't bother me a bit. That's at my grammar all the time, but when you speak it, it's not near as intimidating when it's written down fast
[00:23:54]Scott Maderer: [00:23:54] Somehow or another speaking incorrectly is more forgivable than writing incorrectly when it comes to [00:24:00] grammar, at least. Yeah.
[00:24:01]You can find out more about Roger and what he does over on his website@rogerwhitney.com. He's also active on Twitter as Roger underscore Whitney, or you can find his podcast anywhere. Great podcasts are found under the retirement answer. Man, I'll have links to all of this over in the show notes as well.
[00:24:21]Roger, is there anything else you'd like to share with us?
[00:24:24] Roger Whitney: [00:24:24] You got one shot at it. Don't waste your life. You can do it.
[00:24:28]Scott Maderer: [00:24:28] Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode. Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:24:55] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you [00:25:00] through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out. Until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.