Join us today for Part 3 of the Interview with Orly Wahba creator of The Kindness Boomerang...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with speaker, author, and kindness expert Orly Wahba.  

In today’s interview with Orly Wahba, I ask Orly what she sees as true leadership.  I also ask Orly to share why kindness isn’t manipulative if done authentically.  Orly and I also talk about how why unkindness exists in the world.

Join in on the Chat below.

Episode 866 Develop Your Influence - Interview with Orly Wahba – Part 3
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 866 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:07] Orly Wahba: [00:00:07] I'm OrlyWahba. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out. Your calling focus on kindness is a key and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this.
[00:00:24] The inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer.
[00:00:29]the beauty you're actually hearing from somebody that's been there or that's currently there. And so that message makes all the difference and that you don't necessarily know who that person is, whether they're a celebrity or just we're all the same. And what is the, how do, what do we use?
[00:00:44] Like what I said in the first and the first week? Our voice, our mouth, our greatest strength comes from our voice.
[00:00:53] Scott Maderer: [00:00:53] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly [00:01:00] desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling.
[00:01:08] In the inspired stewardship podcast, we'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:19]In today's interview with Orly Wahba. I asked early what she sees as true leadership. I also ask really to share why kindness isn't manipulative, if done authentically and orally. And I also talk about how and why unkindness exists in the world. One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others.
[00:01:46] Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible. Go to [00:02:00] inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial.
[00:02:07] There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast. Orly Wahba is the founder of the global nonprofit life vest inside a kindness expert, an educator, a bestselling author and entrepreneur, and a keynote speaker who inspires audiences to take action.
[00:02:41] Her talks and workshops provide the groundwork for lasting change and motivate people to become the best versions of themselves so that they can influence the world for good. Orally is also the author of, and created the viral video, the kindness, boomerang drawing from her personal [00:03:00] journey, groundbreaking science and our signature wit orally inspires people to tap into the power of kindness, the most underutilized skill in today's world through her talk, Orly demonstrates how kindness and a simple shift in perspective can alter the way a person connects with themselves and connects with the world around them.
[00:03:21] Welcome to the show. Orly.
[00:03:24] Orly Wahba: [00:03:24] Thank you so much, Scott, for having me, I'm really honored to be here
[00:03:30] Scott Maderer: [00:03:30] so early, over the last few weeks, we've talked a lot about kindness and these various things, but. As we move into that area of influence last week, we wrapped up with this idea of sometimes we think of kindness as people taking advantage of us.
[00:03:45] I think one of the other terms that's used a lot and you've talked about competence and arrogance and these things is the term leadership. I always try to ask all of my guests, because what I found is when I ask you, what's the definition of leadership, I always get a different answer. I want to hear all those [00:04:00] answers.
[00:04:00] Most people don't define it exactly the same way. There's always, sometimes there's similarities, but there's always subtle differences. So how would you define the word leadership?
[00:04:09] Orly Wahba: [00:04:09] Ah, that's a great question. And the truth is there are several ways that I look at this. The real job of a leader is to help those that are choosing to follow them.
[00:04:20] To see the beauty within themselves. That's really the role of a leader. The role of the leader is not to flaunt. What they're doing the role of a leader is to bring people on board towards that same mission is not to actually be saying, Oh, it's about me. Me a leader is not about the the I it's about the we.
[00:04:44] And oftentimes leadership can be a very lonely place. It can be a very lonely place for exactly that reason because the leader tends to stand up while everybody else is sitting down, which is not easy to do to stand up when everybody else is sitting down. But the true role of a [00:05:00] leader is to lead with compassion, to lead with kindness, lead, with hope, to empower those.
[00:05:07] To become a leader of their own life because we all should be the leader of our own lives. Not all of us can be leaders. Okay. I would be a fool to say that every person can be a leader, but we all can be the leader of our life and a true leader and powers others to be that leader of their own life, to be able to make those choices, to recognize their beauty, to recognize what they have in there.
[00:05:33]Beautifully packed suitcase when they came into this world with their skills and their tools and their resources, to be able to go out on the journey and to accomplish the things that they, and only they are meant to do.
[00:05:44]Scott Maderer: [00:05:44] Last week at the end of the episode, we were talking a little bit about, how kindness can be seen people think of it as taking advantage. I think the flip of that is sometimes, and you touched on this a little bit in your answer last week is [00:06:00] sometimes when people are kind to us, we. Sometimes rightly and sometimes wrongly perceive that as being manipulative or taking advantage of us.
[00:06:10] Talk a little bit about that.
[00:06:12] Orly Wahba: [00:06:12] Okay. That's see. There's so many components to it, which is why I really love talking about this. There are really so many components. So one part of it is sometimes like I had mentioned last week, there could be those people that are. Overly giving in an, in a non-natural way.
[00:06:25] It doesn't feel authentic now understand something. It doesn't mean that person is fake. Okay. It's very important to say that now. I'm not saying that is in all cases. Okay. We have to be able to use our intuition as well. It's there for a reason, but. It doesn't necessarily mean that person is fake.
[00:06:41] Sometimes it means that person has such a low sense of value and of confidence that they're trying to fill themselves by gaining your approval. The, all they want is approval and validation, but they didn't realize yet they didn't learn yet that they need to give themselves that validation.
[00:06:58] And they're overly [00:07:00] doing it because there's so much trying to get it. And what ends up happening is they actually get the exact opposite and then they can sometimes become a bit angry or hostile eventually, because again, they're giving from what they're giving from a place of depletion, they're giving from a place of sacrifice.
[00:07:13] It's very dangerous. Now the other side of the spectrum there is that sometimes people can become. Curious as to why somebody is being kind to them. Because they're afraid they're being manipulated generally the person that fears that. Okay. And again, I, you know what, I don't want to make a generalization here, but sometimes it can be because we've been hurt now.
[00:07:34] What do we know when a person has been hurt, maybe because they trusted somebody that they thought that they could trust. And maybe it happened once, maybe it happened twice. Everybody has their limit of how many times in a sense they can trust what and continue to trust even after getting hurt.
[00:07:52] But it makes a person stop trusting in humanity. Now that's very dangerous to not trust in humanity. That doesn't mean [00:08:00] that you should be, it should be a blindfold. I trust everybody and put your hand your head in the sand, like an ostrich. And don't, don't see what's going on.
[00:08:07] Everything in life is a balance, so there's not going to be any definite. So I'm giving you, it's not like this is this and this is that. No it's all balanced. And it really depends on every specific situation as it stands, but. It's important to understand that a person could become so cynical because they'd been hurt so much that even as simple action of, someone giving you something for free, you're like, what's the catch.
[00:08:29] I remember this happened. I was giving out this was a few years ago and it was actually an honor of Hutch who I spoke about a couple of weeks back, I think with the hot dog who was based on the kindness, boomerang film, where, he's a homeless man. And I told him, I see him that he asked me, he said, you see me?
[00:08:45] And basically I said, I want to go onto the streets of New York in the same area where I met him and I'm going to package up, I'm going to put together these care packages for people that are homeless. And engage in conversation. It was more about the [00:09:00] conversation, engaging conversation. It was also about giving them of something that they can utilize, but it was also engaging conversation to figure out what happened?
[00:09:07] What is going on and where do they find? What, how do they find that they ended up where they ended up. And so I went out on the street and I was engaging in these again, we could call it kindness, but it wasn't doing kindness. We're just loving kindness. And. There were some that were very many were very open, but there are always going to be people that have a hard time understanding why you're doing this.
[00:09:32] And they think you're doing it for some sort of motive or purpose, or, you're just trying to exploit, you're just trying to exploit us or, There's always going and again, and I had conversations with people just like that. And we sat and we had a conversation and I can, and the key is to continue engaging them in kindness, because you have to know where your, what your intentions are and if your intentions are pure and they're really authentic, eventually it'll get through to a person.
[00:09:55] I always believe there's nobody that has strong enough walls that you can't break down. I do not believe [00:10:00] that anyone in this world has a strong enough wall, that if you're talking to them, one-on-one that you can't break it down. I don't believe it because I've seen it now. I'm not going to say I've met every person in this world, but I do believe that when you speak from your heart enters into another person's heart and it's just true and it all has to do with authenticity.
[00:10:18]On one part, I always tell people if you're going ahead and you're doing some sort of an act of kindness and you're met, sometimes I always warn them. Just be aware, you might be met with unkindness, you're doing something kind, and the person turns you away. And it hurts, but remember, you're not doing kindness because you wanted them to clap their hands and Pat you on the back, you're doing it because you think it's the right thing to do.
[00:10:40]You're seeing them, you're empathizing with them. And maybe what they need is they need to be mad at you. That's okay. But you, if you're going to allow their reaction to change you, then they win. You lose. Then unkindness wins. Kindness is at the window. You have to continue doing it by realizing I understand.
[00:10:58] That's why I said it has to come from a place of [00:11:00] abundance because of when it comes from a place of sacrifice, you're giving the kindness because you're wanting to receive in return. It doesn't work like that. Okay. It just doesn't you need to put it out there. There's a saying, I remember my dad always telling me this.
[00:11:11] I can't remember the exact words of it. Cause it was in Hebrew, but basically says, whenever you do something, you just throw it, cast it out into the cast sedan, into the wind. And you never know where it's going to lead. You have no clue where it's going to go. Don't go ahead and try to sit and catch it.
[00:11:25] It's if you add a pillow with feathers and imagine what to the top of a mountain, and he took a knife and you cut the pillow and all these feathers are your acts of kindness and you let them out. Go ahead. Try to catch him now. No, that's not the point. And that's supposed to, they're going to go away.
[00:11:40] You don't know how it may end up coming back to you, but you have to make sure that you're giving is coming from an authentic place. And again, it's also us learning to be a bit more trusting, to believe again, in the good of humanity, but giving also has to come from a place of authenticity.
[00:11:57] So some people are not giving necessarily from a place of [00:12:00] authenticity that does happen. I've even experienced people using the word kindness, and they're not really kind to be very honest. I've experienced. It's become a buzzword. When I started when I started life S inside and talking about kindness, nobody was talking about it.
[00:12:14]There were, I'm sure that there were a couple, I shouldn't say nobody that's too big of a statement, it was not a common thing. Everybody thought I was absolutely nuts. What are you doing organization about kindness? What are you talking about? And then all of a sudden, as the years went on, it became this buzzword, everybody's got to use it.
[00:12:28] Yeah. Kindness, inclusivity, all these things. Let me tell you something I've unfortunately experienced where people have used that. In a manipulative way. So I'm not going to say that doesn't exist. I'm very aware that it exists. It does. And you have to be careful again, it's using your intuition. And it's a balance it's using your tuition, but also not being so cynical that you can't allow somebody to engage with you.
[00:12:50] And if you happen to be that person on the giving end and somebody blocks you off, and that you're giving is coming from an authentic place, just don't give up because you know that it's coming from an authentic place and you [00:13:00] understand where their cynicism is coming from. It's coming from a place of lack of trust.
[00:13:04] So simply continue to connect with them. And eventually their will come down because they're begging every, every pessimist is really just a closet optimist waiting to come out, waiting, but they need somebody to knock on the door more than one time.
[00:13:19] Scott Maderer: [00:13:19] So if kindness is so important and so beneficial, why then does unkindness actually exist in the world?
[00:13:28] Orly Wahba: [00:13:28] So the great question, and I know I've touched on this a bit in a previous, in the previous episode, but unkindness, in my opinion, doesn't exist because people are not kind. I actually think that people aren't inherently kind, I think people are really good. I love people. I always say my job is falling in love with people more and more each day.
[00:13:46] Honestly, I really do. I think unkindness exists because people lack. The recognition in their own inner [00:14:00] value. And so if I don't understand that inside of me, there is value. There is something worthy. There is something worth. While when I look at you, why would I see it in you? If I can't see it in me, it's when we come to see it in ourselves, that when we look at another person, we say, wow, that's another gem.
[00:14:23] There's another Juul, talking about this makes me think of you. Look at the difference in, if you look at the issues in terms of just controversy that happens in the world, whether people of different religions or different backgrounds or different ideologies or different political views. Okay.
[00:14:39] Yeah.
[00:14:40] Scott Maderer: [00:14:40] That doesn't happen here in the States ever.
[00:14:42] Orly Wahba: [00:14:42] Oh no never. So what happens? Why does unkindness exist? Again, it's because people don't believe enough in what they believe. Think about this for a minute. Okay. If I'm secure in who I am, what does that do? That gives me freedom, being secure in who I [00:15:00] am, gives me freedom to embrace others for who they are and to understand, Hey, guess what?
[00:15:05] We're all different. If you want to understand that even further, just look at your hand, we each have a different fingerprint and that crazy. Okay. 8 billion people in the world and we each have a different Mark. You don't think that's meant for a reason to tell us something, Hey guys, you're not supposed to all think the same.
[00:15:18] You're going to think differently. That's okay. We've come to a point in this world where we forgot to have dialogue. We don't even know what dialogue means. The word has gone out the window. What is it? We don't understand
[00:15:27] Scott Maderer: [00:15:27] what it means. Scream at each other as loud as you can, until everybody,
[00:15:31] Orly Wahba: [00:15:31] they must have changed it in the dictionary.
[00:15:33] I didn't get that memo. I didn't get that
[00:15:35] Scott Maderer: [00:15:35] memo. I think that's what it means. A based on their based on observation,
[00:15:41] Orly Wahba: [00:15:41] really it's re I think this is one of the biggest issues that's going on in today's world. And if I am secure in what I believe, I understand that everybody has a pathway to get to where they believe, everybody has a pathway. As long as it's person's belief, isn't actually. Going to be taking away another person's life. So I believe that, all [00:16:00] these people should die. Oh, okay. No problem. You believe that enough? No problem. That's a good belief. No, I'm not saying that. The idea is when you are secure in who you are, Now you're no longer fearful that somebody else's ideologies are going to influence you when you're not secure.
[00:16:15] What do you do? You shove your ideologies on another person's throat. You don't even want to hear what they have to say, because you are afraid. You're afraid. What if, what they say shifts something in your mind? What if all of a sudden they manipulate you? What if they get you on their side? So what do you, do?
[00:16:31] You shove your thoughts and ideologies down their throat? Because the way we are as human beings is nobody could believe. That they're not living life the right way. It's a very hard thing to do. So everybody in their own minds feels like they're the middle of the road. Everybody's I'm the middle of the road on me.
[00:16:46] I'm the middle of the road. Sure. Everyone's in middle of the road. Very good. Except there's nobody left in the middle of the road. So the thing is if we come to understand and be in, because it's hard to not believe that the way you're living your life or the way you're choosing to do things.
[00:16:57] Isn't right. Cause then their guilt comes into play. [00:17:00] So we play a little mind game on ourselves, but if we, if a person is actually really secure, In what they believe and how they think they're okay with somebody thinking that the way that they're thinking is crazy, you can't change people. All you could do is share your perspective and general.
[00:17:18] Whenever I come into, whenever there is, let's say two sides of a coin, or, somebody is talking about something that we have different viewpoints, they share their view. That's great. Share your view. I. Number one is I acknowledge their viewpoint. Why? Because they're a human being. They're a lot of believer, whatever they want to believe, who am I to tell somebody and don't believe that I then share my perspective.
[00:17:38] I offer them my perspective, but I end off by telling them that even if they have a different perspective, that's okay. And that's really why I believe that I've been able to embrace. People that are completely different than me. Completely. I'm not, I don't see people in, what can I tell you something crazy?
[00:17:56]It's the first time I'm sharing this, but I feel like I have to say it. [00:18:00] The kindness, boomerang film. Okay. Went crazy. Viral, reached over a hundred million people globally. Sparks will I've come to call it the kindness revolution, all these acts of kindness based on real life experiences I went through and this film was shown in schools throughout the world, in companies throughout the world.
[00:18:19] Suddenly I'm getting emails when now in this time where I'm getting emails from people saying that my film is racist, could you believe it? They say, I've gotten an email saying, how come the black guy is homeless? You're a racist and now
[00:18:39] Scott Maderer: [00:18:39] no, it's because I met a homeless black person that sparked for
[00:18:42] Orly Wahba: [00:18:42] fiddle.
[00:18:42] Exactly. So I can be angry, but actually I love these comments. Why? Because I do believe that kindness and dialogue is the way to get to. Know connection. And so I shared with this person and it's from a school and they're like, we're not gonna be able to show this in the school. I said, listen, I completely understand your perspective.
[00:18:59] I can [00:19:00] understand why you see it that way. I said, but I'm going to offer you another perspective. I said, this film is based on all real life experiences. I went through every single scene and I want it to be as true as I could be to every single person in that film. And it happens to be that the basis, the inspiration behind this whole film was that.
[00:19:18] Men now I don't look at him as a homeless man, and I don't look at him as a black man. I just look at him as a man. He happens to be homeless and he happens to be black, but I'm not, I know I'm not looking, I'm not valuing a person based on those things I said. And I explained the story and I shared, I shared where it came from and so on and so forth.
[00:19:37] But I said listen, you're completely free to believe what you want to believe. I said, but isn't it so sad that it film. That was made from such the purest intention and the purest of places is now going to be seen as being racist. Isn't that so sad that we can't just understand that, actually explain the backstory and I did end up receiving a response back and it was a very, it was a very [00:20:00] positive response.
[00:20:01] But bottom line is we have to be very careful with these kinds of things. We have to be very careful and we have to understand and recognize that no two people in this world are the same organ to think the same, as long as we can accept and be secure in our beliefs, we need to be able at the end of the day to embrace others, what they believe again, I said there is a limit.
[00:20:24] There is a line. If somebody's belief is that they want to, kill a whole race of people, obviously that doesn't make any sense. That's not okay. We all understand that's not okay. But at the end of the day, people have different ideologies. As long as they're not threatening you then what does it matter if they believe something differently?
[00:20:43] So what embrace them? Why can't we just connect with one another? Why can't we just, it would be so much better of a world. Don't we all want to live in a world of peace in a world of comradery. I think so we could get there. We just, we have to stop [00:21:00] wanting to be right. What does, right mean, I don't know.
[00:21:03] I'm not the judge. I'm not a judge me. I'm going to love people. I'll let afterwards that people could get judged. However they want. I'm not interested. I don't want that job. That's the worst job.
[00:21:12] Scott Maderer: [00:21:12] Not for me. I always tell people that's above my pay grade anyway. So
[00:21:15] Orly Wahba: [00:21:15] the set above my pay grade hundred percent.
[00:21:19] Scott Maderer: [00:21:19] So one of the projects that you share on your website is project hope exchange, and I was looking at it and it was fascinating to me. Would you share for listeners what that actually is and then how that's a tool for folks to recognize and overcome some of their own adversities and fears?
[00:21:36] Orly Wahba: [00:21:36] Of course, first of all, Scott, I'm so happy that you asked about project hope exchange. It's one of my favorite initiatives. Honestly, it's one of my favorites and the whole concept behind project hope exchanges that we've all experienced adversity in our life, whether it be physical health or mental health or life challenges, we've all experienced adversity.
[00:21:53] But one of the best proven ways to get hope is by giving hope, when a person is going through an adversity. [00:22:00] And it feels like their life is over. They can't see past it. The last thing people want to hear is, Oh, it's going to be okay. You'll get over it, but it's not okay. What do you tell them? It's not.
[00:22:08] Okay. So what is the concept behind project hope exchange through project hope exchange. We collect. Aggregate and share 32nd anonymous, anonymous audio messages of hope from people that have been through adversity, through others that are currently going through the same adversity. And it's all done through audio and it's completely anonymous.
[00:22:28] All the messages are then listened to by professionals in the field. This is a project that I've done in conjunction with another nonprofit called adversity to advocacy, which is an incredible organization. And basically. Let's say, for example, somebody leaves a message. Okay. All the messages are then vetted and placed into either physical health, mental health, or life challenges.
[00:22:48] The categories are all user generated. So if I clicked on physical health and now I have a whole list of different physical ailments and I clicked on let's say cancer, the. Platform, we'll sort through all of [00:23:00] the audio messages left by people that have either gone through cancer or going through it or have family members going through it.
[00:23:05] And you can now listen to these 32nd nuggets of hope, because oftentimes when we give hope to somebody, think about it, when you give advice to someone more than not, we're really speaking to ourselves, we really are. And this is the beauty you're actually hearing from somebody that's been there or that's currently there.
[00:23:21] And so that message makes all the difference and that you don't necessarily know who that person is, whether they're a celebrity or just we're all the same. And what is the, how do, what do we use? What I said in the first week, our voice, our mouth, our greatest strength comes from our voice.
[00:23:38] Because it is the, it's basically the manifestation of what is in our heart is coming through our voice. And when you hear somebody's voice, it does something to differently than if you're just reading a text message, you connecting from one heart into the other person's heart and into their mind.
[00:23:55] And so it's such a beautiful platform. I really encourage people. This is such a [00:24:00] simple 32nd act of kindness. Whether you're going to listen to a message or send a message to somebody that, going through and diversity that's listed, or whether you take 30 seconds and share an adversity that you've faced and how you've overcome, or maybe how you haven't, but sharing from your heart.
[00:24:17] Scott Maderer: [00:24:17] So you can follow orally on Twitter at life vest inside, or find out more about her on our website at life vest, inside.com. She's also active on Facebook under life vest inside, and you can find out more about the kindness, boomerang and the book over at kindness, boomerang.com. And of course I'll have links to all of that over in the show notes.
[00:24:38] Orally. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the listener?
[00:24:41] Orly Wahba: [00:24:41] I would love to actually share the YouTube channel, which is also out life S inside.com. To me, that is actually our most engaged channel. We're on YouTube. We're also on Instagram, on YouTube. I put out a weekly video called the kindness kickoff with orderly, where I do a reading from my book.
[00:24:56]Once a week and I give everybody a kindness challenge to go out there and do [00:25:00] plus that's where you'll be able to hear about the cool video collaborations we have going on. The one that we're up to right now is called a tribute to our elders and we put up all of those videos directly on their channel.
[00:25:10] So you'll see the kindness boomerang on there as well as loads of other inspirational films that you can use in your own way.
[00:25:16]Scott Maderer: [00:25:16] thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode. Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:25:43] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed until next [00:26:00] time, invest your time. Your talent and your treasures develop your influence and impact the world. .


In today's episode, I ask Orly about:

  • What she sees as true leadership...  
  • Why kindness isn’t manipulative if done authentically...
  • How why unkindness exists in the world...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

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This is the beauty.  You are actually hearing form someone that has been there or is actually there. - Orly Wahba

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About the Author Scott

Helping people to be better Stewards of God's gifts. Because Stewardship is about more than money.

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