Episode 806 Develop Your Influence - Interview with Brian Steele – Part 3
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 806 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:06] Brian Steele: [00:00:06] I'm Brian Steele, author of the kingdom field guide, and I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world. How by using your time, your talent and your treasure to live out your calling.
[00:00:23] Discovering how to seek first God's kingdom is key. And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend, Scott Mader.
[00:00:42] the other thing is it's not divorced. God's kingdom, isn't divorced from humanity. And the picture of the guard is there's six days of creation and humanity is created on the last day. And then God gives us a charge. He says that we are to have [00:01:00] dominion over the earth. And that is a, it's a Royal commission.
[00:01:05] Scott Maderer: [00:01:05] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast. We'll learn to invest in yourself.
[00:01:25] Invest in others. And develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:38] And today's interview with Brian Steele, the author of the kingdom field guide. I asked Brian to share what his definition of leadership is. Also asked Brian to talk with us about his list of kingdom, do not. And Brian also shares with you how we can use our joy in the kingdom to share it with others.
[00:02:00] [00:02:00] One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power. In learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
[00:02:21] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast.
[00:02:48] Brian C steel is a pastor speaker and Arthur. His work has focused on discipleship, leadership development, and small groups. After spending eight years studying Jesus's parable of [00:03:00] the hidden treasure. He loves helping people to find God's kingdom right beneath their feet. His teaching venues have ranged from thousands of people in mega church sermons to conferences, retreats, workshops, and one-on-one coaching.
[00:03:13] He is also a professional geologist. And is in well partial recovery from a birdwatching addiction. He delights in exploring the Alpine wilderness of the Pacific crest trail with his wife, Katie and his dog banner.
[00:03:31] Welcome to the show, Brian,
[00:03:33] Brian Steele: [00:03:33] thank you, Scott. Looking forward to this conversation.
[00:03:38] Scott Maderer: [00:03:38] So Brian, one thing we talked last week, we asked about the definition of stewardship. But one of the areas that I've also found is important to think about when we think about the kingdom and what we do and influence on others is being a leader.
[00:03:58] How would you [00:04:00] define leadership in light of the kingdom narrative?
[00:04:04] Brian Steele: [00:04:04] Yeah, I would say leadership is a type of service that takes, what's been entrusted to you. And I love your language of time and talent and treasure, and it is takes, what's been entrusted to you and you use that in a way that brings out the very most in the people that you're leading.
[00:04:28] So it's a type of service that brings other people to flourishing. So in an organization, if you're a leader, let's say you're the you're an employer you're serving the people that you employ in a manner that allows them to grow and to maximize their talent and their skill and their gifting so they can flourish.
[00:04:53] And that you're bringing good into the world through that influence. But I think it [00:05:00] begins with service and humility.
[00:05:04] Scott Maderer: [00:05:04] So I think my favorite chapter in the book in a very real way, and that's hard to say, cause I actually really enjoyed it. Overall was chapter five where you talk about the kingdom is not.
[00:05:20] And you talk about different things that fit into this, not only what is the kingdom, which is the important question, but okay. Therefore, what is not the kingdom, you share about how that kind of informs us what the kingdom is, what the kingdom isn't and why that's important.
[00:05:38] Brian Steele: [00:05:38] Sure. Yeah. I'll just run through a couple of them. Beginning with the kingdom is not a metaphor when Jesus taught. He taught in PA in parables, but he wasn't saying that his rule as King was a symbol or a metaphor. And that's why it's so important that we need to get to the place that God's kingdom.
[00:05:58] Isn't just real, [00:06:00] but that it's really real. And if we think it's a metaphor or symbol, then we'll never arrive at the place where God's kingdom is really real, meaning it has. Actual bearing in our everyday life. So kingdom's not a metaphor. It's also not something that's just far or future, like some Sunday way off in the foggy distant future God's kingdom will come.
[00:06:25] And it's surrounded by clouds. It's a little bit foggy. It has beam of
[00:06:29] Scott Maderer: [00:06:29] light somewhere, some beams.
[00:06:31] Brian Steele: [00:06:31] Sure. Some beams of light, maybe some angels. Something like that. Nope, that's not God's kingdom. God's kingdom is here and now it's embedded in space and time. It's embedded in reality, God's rule and reign has everything to do in the realms of our material world, our spiritual world, our individual realm and our social realm.
[00:06:56] It's all encompassed here and now [00:07:00] in the rule and reign of Jesus and. So I also say God's kingdom is not divorced from the world. Like it's not just some spiritual activity, the kingdom, isn't just praying for people, the kingdom, isn't just some sort of spiritual set of spiritual exercises.
[00:07:19] So the parable of the sheep and the goats that Jesus tells in Matthew 25 is very sobering. And if people haven't read that, I'd really encourage revisiting that. Cause he says to the sheep, I'm welcoming you into my joy because you gave water. And because you visited people and because you fed people and because you clothed people, meaning your actions in the real world were in accordance with my rule and reign.
[00:07:51] And then the goats, and this is terrifying. Scott. He says depart from me because I was hungry and you didn't feed me. I was [00:08:00] thirsty and you didn't want, give me water. I was naked and he didn't close me. He didn't visit me when I was in jail and we, the God's kingdom, isn't just a spiritual set of exercises, but it is deeply embedded in our world.
[00:08:15]But the other side of that, the flip side is it's not entirely dependent on the world either. And there is a a stream of kingdom theology that I think is very dangerous and even destructive. And it's something called dominion, ism, or kingdom now theology, which says that God's kingdom only comes when we gain control over.
[00:08:39] The instruments of this world. So we have to gain. The Supreme court, for example, in order for God's control yes or no, must have control of business, or we must have control of media, or we must have control of the education sector. And so that's another error [00:09:00] thinking that it's. Only dependent on the world.
[00:09:02] And so for God's can come, there has to be Christians in charge of all of these things, which is clearly not the case, especially from, if we look at like new Testament church, they were a persecuted church. They had zero power and control. They were under the thumb of Rome. And and that's true today, the fastest growing church, believe it or not is in Iran.
[00:09:32] And it is growing like wildfire without any of the instruments of state control or power or influence. So it's not to say that there shouldn't be Christians in politics, or there shouldn't be Christians in business, but it's just, we need Christians in business because. That means God's going to be able to reach people in those areas, but it's, we don't, God doesn't need that power for his kingdom to come.
[00:10:00] [00:10:00] The other thing is it's not divorced. God's kingdom, isn't divorced from humanity and the picture of the garden. Is there six days of creation and humanity is created on the last day. And then God gives us a charge. He says that we are to have dominion over the earth. And that is a, it's a Royal commission in our very DNA.
[00:10:26] In our very design. God is calling us to be vice Regents or under Kings to rule and reign on his behalf. And that we have a real place with real authority. That's been entrusted to us to rule and have dominion over the earth, which doesn't mean destroy. This is getting back to stewardship. It doesn't mean that we just get to pillage and plunder.
[00:10:55] If we're going to be good stewards of creation, it means we're going to take care of it. But we're also going [00:11:00] to bring out the full potential of what's latent of what's hidden inside creation. We're going to use those resources to be a blessing to other people, to bring goodness out, and we're going to do it in a way that's wise and in a way that's caring, but also in a way that's creative and innovative.
[00:11:20] And God is entrusting us to be creative. So he's not a micromanager Scott. He's not saying you have to do this and this and this he's saying I haven't trusted you with the brain. Now go use it to innovate, to create new technologies, to use the resources that are in this world, natural resources and human resources in a way to make this place.
[00:11:47] Flourish. So it's not divorced from humanity, but then we also have to say that God's kingdom isn't entirely human. There is this [00:12:00] element that we are in partnership with God that he is doing something in this world. And it's important for us to understand just what exactly that is that he's doing in this world.
[00:12:16] What is his will, what does it mean for his kingdom to come and for me to partner with him on a daily basis for that work to be accomplished. And my big temptation Scott and I hope I'm not the only one is to build my kingdom. Including writing a book called the kingdom field guide, the dark side, or the shadow side of me would want to use that book about God's kingdom to advance my own personal kingdom and to make a great name for myself and to establish my own kingdom.
[00:12:58] And that's the irony and the [00:13:00] tragedy of it all, where it's like it is a daily struggle to say, not my will. But your will be done, not my kingdom, Jesus, but your kingdom. It's not my business. It's your business. It's not my home. It's your home. It's not my money. It's your money? Not my glory, King Jesus, but you
[00:13:24] Scott Maderer: [00:13:24] well, and that the difference between looking for where God is operating and going there versus go where we want to go and then try to invite God along for the journey.
[00:13:37]Brian Steele: [00:13:37] Which is Lord, I got to tell you my plans and I'm going to ask you to put some, sprinkle your Holy water on it,
[00:13:41] Scott Maderer: [00:13:41] and please show up. And it's wait. Yeah. Yeah. And and the truth is God was God, is there too. It's not, God's not there, but it's just not, that's not really.
[00:13:55] You're putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. So as part of this too, when you talk about [00:14:00] what the kingdom is and what the kingdom is not, you talk about the delight. And I think most Christians would argue with you on the use of that particular word, but the delight that comes from sharing it with others.
[00:14:11] And yet I know that's one of the most difficult things that we're asked to do. So what does that actually practically look like in the real world?
[00:14:21]Brian Steele: [00:14:21] That's definitely the story of my life. If I was one of those guys I mentioned earlier that I was involved in a very messed up church.
[00:14:30] It was probably a cult. And so I was one of those guys that would go knocking on your door and would scream on a street corner and held up obnoxious signs with flames and stuff like this. And and. The sharing, quote, unquote, sharing the gospel. Most people have a fear of speaking to others about Jesus and and I do believe [00:15:00] that delight is key.
[00:15:02] And I think it's a really important question about why isn't delightful to to quote unquote, share the gospel. Probably it comes down to if we're not living a kingdom narrative than sharing the gospel of the kingdom, won't be delightful. And I just, I feel like it, it really does boil down to the story that's in our head.
[00:15:32] If we don't believe that God's kingdom is really real. Then why would we take delight in sharing that? Because what we're going to be inviting people into is just another set of to-dos and it's going to, and I think a lot of people, and this was me for a long time, felt like being an evangelist was being a fraud.
[00:15:56] I'm asking people [00:16:00] to. Encounter something that I'm not myself personally experiencing and. If we go back to the image of the garden and the story of the garden of Eden, the name Eden means delight in Hebrew, that what is God doing? He's creating a garden, a place of flourishing, a place of beauty, a place of savoring, a place of love.
[00:16:26] And from that place was the overflow. To the whole rest of the world of God's goodness, there was even, Eden was a mountain and the rivers flowed down from that mountain out to the rest of the world. And that's the picture of delight that when we are delighting ourselves in the Lord and his kingdom, there will be a natural or flow of delight that will extend out to the people around us.
[00:17:00] [00:16:59] And and so I, what I think like the kingdom of God sharing the good news is really sharing your life and allowing people to experience the overflow of the goodness and the delight that you have. And that when conversation comes up, the reason why there's so much delight is because there is a King who is ruling and his name is Jesus.
[00:17:27] And there's delight in my life and flourishing because of his rule and reign. And and that's where the good news comes from. It has to come from that overflow. Of a place of delight that's established in your life that then extends and flows out to other people.
[00:17:51] Scott Maderer: [00:17:51] So as part of that, I think, most of us are, many of us are not necessarily called to what the church [00:18:00] calls priesthood.
[00:18:01]Becoming a pastor, becoming a a leader of a church and that kind of thing. But you do point out and I agree with this. I believe this as well, that all believers are called to, what I've heard called the priesthood of all believers. So what then, how does that balance out and look like if we're leaving, living in the kingdom, As a Christian.
[00:18:22] Brian Steele: [00:18:22] Yeah. It, that goes back to who we are by design. So again, if we're going back to the garden, it wasn't just like a place of flowers and trees. It was also a temple. It was a meeting place with God and humanity. It was the holiest of Holies. It was a temple. And so in creation, we are by design priests.
[00:18:45] We are those who meet with God and then mediate, outward God's blessing to the rest of creation. So that's a role of a priest. And also the role of the priest is to sum up. The [00:19:00] praises of all creation and lifted up in worship towards God. So that's the role of the priest. So when we get to Exodus 19, when Israel just before they received the law, Mount Sinai, God said you will be to me, a kingdom of priests.
[00:19:17] It's, you're going to be my people who receive my blessing and then extend it outward to all of the earth. And then as priests, you're going to sum up all of the praises of all creation. You're going to lift up that worship and give me glory as priest. So what's really interesting then in, in first, Peter chapter two, Peter uses exactly the same language that was used at, in Exodus at Mount Sinai.
[00:19:46] And he says you are Royal, are a Royal priesthood. And he's talking now to the church. He's in fact, he's talking to pig and Christians living in Asia minor, not even Jews, he's [00:20:00] primarily addressing Gentiles and he's using that same calling from Exodus. And he says that now we are a Royal priesthood. And then in in revelation chapter one, it says, again that you are a kingdom of priests.
[00:20:20] And that we have this calling to upward offer worship and praise and prayer to God, and then outward to the rest of the world. Extend God's goodness as intermediaries or as. As his representatives, as priests, that when we receive his goodness and his love and his beauty, we extend it outward to the rest of the world.
[00:20:49] And that's our role as priests. And it's not just for a select few, but every single person who carries the name of Jesus [00:21:00] is included in that Royal priesthood.
[00:21:06] Scott Maderer: [00:21:06] you can find out more about the book over@kingdomfieldguides.com and you can connect with Brian on LinkedIn, under Brian C steel that's S T E L E. Of course I'll have links to all of this over in the show notes as well. Brian, anything else you'd like to share with the listener today?
[00:21:27] Brian Steele: [00:21:27] Yeah, I would just say it is the, it's the adventure of a lifetime that when you stub your toe on the hidden truth, it's worth taking a long time to ponder and to understand the value of what you've found.
[00:21:45] And in this life, there is a life of flourishing as you seek God's kingdom first. And I just strongly recommend in, in. Getting the kingdom field guide and actually doing the field trips because the temptation is just [00:22:00] to read it like a book and set it on your shelf. But my hope is that the field guide gets shoved in your backpack and it gets muddy and dirty that you, with your friends or your family or small group, you go have these immersive.
[00:22:12] Experiences together. Cause that's the best way. And maybe even the only way of learning about God's kingdom and having it come fully in your life. So that's my strong encouragement to people. Scott,
[00:22:25] Scott Maderer: [00:22:25] awesome. Thanks so much for being on the show today.
[00:22:28] Brian Steele: [00:22:28] I have loved it. Thank you.
[00:22:36] Scott Maderer: [00:22:36] Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired [00:23:00] stewardship.com/itunes rate.
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