Join us today for Part 3 of the Interview with Dan Miller, author of 48 Days to the Work You Love...

This is Part 3 of the interview I had with speaker, podcast host, and author Dan Miller.  

In today’s interview with Dan Miller, Dan and I talk with you about what leadership really is.  Dan also shares the difference between a hobby and a business and how that often involves finding one message but sharing it multiple ways.  Dan and I also talk with you about his tips on sharing your message with speaking and writing.

Join in on the Chat below.

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 766 of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:08] Dan Miller: [00:00:08] Dan Miller from 48 days.com. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to find the work you love is key.
[00:00:25] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Mader.
[00:00:39] Three legs, passion, talent, and money. That's what has to be present if something is really productive. So again, being in Nashville for lots of years, we have lots of people who have tell they really do and have passion, just unbounded passion for what they're doing. [00:01:00] Well without money, it's not a career.
[00:01:03] It's not a business. It's a hobby.
[00:01:06] Scott Maderer: [00:01:06] Welcome. And thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcasts. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true color. In the inspired stewardship podcast, we'll learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
[00:01:36] In today's interview with Dan Miller, Dan and I talked with you about what leadership really is. Dan also shares the difference between a hobby and a business and how that can often involve finding one message, but sharing it multiple waves. Dan and I also talk with you about his tips on sharing your message using speaking, or writing.
[00:01:59] One reason I [00:02:00] like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power in learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
[00:02:20] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from. And instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this
[00:02:46] Dan Miller: [00:02:46] podcast.
[00:02:48] Scott Maderer: [00:02:48] Dan Miller president of 48 days, LLC specializes in creative thinking for increased personal and business success. He believes that meaningful work, blends our natural [00:03:00] skills and abilities, our unique personality traits and our dreams and passions. He believes that a clear sense of direction can help us become all that God designed us to be.
[00:03:10] Dan is the author of the widely acclaimed 48 days for the work you love and no more Mondays books. 48 days was recently released in a 20 year anniversary edition. He hosts his podcast and is the founder of the online community that I belong to called the 48 days Eagles. And there's many active entrepreneurs there.
[00:03:32] I've learned a lot about how I view my vocation from Dan, his books and listening to him over the years. And I consider him one of my virtual mentors. Oh. And by the way, Dan and his wife, Joanne have three wonderful children and 17 grandchildren to celebrate. Well, welcome to the show, Dan.
[00:03:52] Dan Miller: [00:03:52] Well, thank you.
[00:03:53] I've been looking forward to our conversation.
[00:03:56] Scott Maderer: [00:03:56] So last week, Dan, I kind of asked you to define the word [00:04:00] stewardship. There's another word that I kind of asked the guests to define because I've gotten a lot of really great responses to that. And when it comes to influence one word that comes up over and over again is leadership.
[00:04:13] How do you define that word leadership?
[00:04:16] Dan Miller: [00:04:16] No, that's, that is a word that comes up too often. That's a word we're going to have to reinvent because it's been so overused in recent years, it seems, but here's how I define a distinction. That's kind of sets it alone. If we're looking at things that are quantifiable, things that are measuring, we're probably a manager, leadership implies something beyond that.
[00:04:40] We're going into territory where it's not easily quantifiable. We don't know exactly what the results are going to be. It's inspiring other people to go beyond what they're used to to me, that's leadership. And it's also the difference between managing, managing almost implies. Right. You know, [00:05:00] pushing, pushing a rope, whereas leadership you're out in front, you can't be a leader unless people want to, unless they choose to follow you.
[00:05:08] You can't demand leadership. It doesn't work. So if you are forcing people to do what they need to do and you're managing or leadership implies all, you're going into some new unexplored territory, Tori. And to me, that's extremely inspiring.
[00:05:28] Scott Maderer: [00:05:28] So one of the topics that I've heard you talk about before, and, and I think this will be valuable to, to folks that are beginning to think about these new work models is the difference between a hobby and a business.
[00:05:41] Not that a hobby is bad. Not that a business is good, but just the difference between them. And then also kind of building on that, how you can take one message or one idea or one core thing and multiply it and spread it in different ways and get paid for it in different ways. Can
[00:06:00] [00:05:59] Dan Miller: [00:05:59] you talk about how that
[00:06:01] Scott Maderer: [00:06:01] kind of fits in with this idea of doing the work that you love?
[00:06:05] Dan Miller: [00:06:05] Absolutely. Love your question. I see this whole concept as a, having a three legged stool and the three legs are passion, talent and money. That's what has to be present if something is really productive. So again, being in Nashville for lots of years, we have lots of people who have talent. They really do, and they have passion, just unbounded passion for what they're doing or without money.
[00:06:37] It's not a career. It's not a business, it's a hobby. And I've coached a lot of people where I confronted them with that, where they haven't generated any money in three years. But they go get their many cure every Wednesday because they have to play the guitar. I'm like, are you kidding me? How can you justify that?
[00:06:57] You don't have a business. You don't have a career go to [00:07:00] home Depot, put on an orange apron and start earning money legitimately. But, so there's that. So if, if you have a hobby and it, I mean a passion and a talent, and you're utilizing that. I mean, I have that. I mean, my goodness, I have things that I love as hobbies.
[00:07:16] That's it? But there, I don't confuse those with being a business because they're not. So that's a real key element there. Now, the other components of that, I mean, if you have something where you have talent and are making money, but are not passionate about it, You're going to burn out. And I would see lots of attorneys, physicians, dentists, pastors, who fall into that category.
[00:07:40] They have talent and money, but no passion. So any two combination of those, the stool is going to fall over just like a three legged stool. Well, if you have talent and passion, no money, we know that it's a hobby. You have talent and money, but no passion. You're going to burn out. If you have passion and money, [00:08:00] no talent.
[00:08:01] That's not going to last very long either. So you have to have all three of those, but then once you find that sweet spot, so you have all three of those in motion, then it doesn't matter what it is you're doing. There are ways to leverage that you mentioned being a coach. I'm a coach. One of the things that I do, but if you are a coach, well, let's take podcasting as an example.
[00:08:23] So we're here on your podcast. I have a podcast, so I love, love, love my podcast. But if you were effective is a podcast host. You're going to have people saying, wow, Scott. Could you sit down with me for a couple hours and help me kind of go deeper in what you just talked about there. Well, you get the opportunities for coaching of organizations.
[00:08:44] Say, we want our organization to hear what you just talked about. You get those speaking opportunities. You can put together a course, a seminar, a workshop workshop, an ebook, a traditional book, you know, just tons of products you can develop based on [00:09:00] your core message. You can. Put together a mastermind. If you want to, you can have affiliate relationships.
[00:09:06] We have a page on a 48 days where people can go and see other resources. There's probably a hundred things on there. A lot of those are affiliate links, whereby products that we recommend really believe in what's being offered, but we get a commission. Because other people are sent there, you can start an online community, which you're familiar with, where you have an affinity group where people, other people interested in stewardship.
[00:09:31] It can be people who are interested in growing herbs or having a particular breed of dog or people who play tennis or drive Corvettes. But you have an affinity group and you have the potential for that. And I, I love that, how exciting that is to take what it is you do, and then see the potential for leveraging that.
[00:09:51] Now the, the, the underlying assumption is you have a core message with me. My core message has not changed. It is to help [00:10:00] high potential individuals discover their strongest pal talents and passions. And to translate that into meaningful, productive, profitable work on Monday morning. And we do that in 48 days.
[00:10:10] That message is the same. But the application of what I've done over the years changes on a month by month basis. Anything that I do in terms of daily activity is on the bubble at any given time. We're looking at, does this still make sense? Some of those things we've removed and we've certainly added on a new ones.
[00:10:29] Yeah.
[00:10:31] Scott Maderer: [00:10:31] So speaking of that, you touched on a couple of different areas and I'd like to kind of dive in a little bit deeper on those. And one of them is this idea of speaking, whether it's a. No public speaking event or workshop, you know, any of these sorts of events around speaking. I know you've done a lot of speaking over the years at various conferences and other settings.
[00:10:51] How can people really do a good job of developing their influence, continuing to spread their message using speaking as a tool.
[00:11:00] [00:11:00] Dan Miller: [00:11:00] Wow. And they can indeed. Everything that I'm doing everything we've talked about. That's come out of 48 days to the work you love started. We didn't really talk about that.
[00:11:09] Started as a Sunday school class. Hmm. That's a really simple example, serve your community, serve your church. That's all I was doing. I had no intention of that becoming any part of my business. I was used to the dichotomy where if I did something in ministry, there's that, but certainly don't try to make money from that.
[00:11:30] That was totally different. But as the requests grew and grew and grew, and audience grew and grew and grew, and my time investment grew and grew. You know, my wife said, wow, if you're going to spend that much time doing it, it's going to have something to do with our income. And we very gently started to offer products, our personal coaching time speaking out of that.
[00:11:50] So that's a very simple example of speaking teaching a Sunday school class. If you get good response and have content that people care about, the opportunities are going to [00:12:00] grow out of that. I often tell people if you really want to experiment with speaking, develop a 25 minute. A 45 minute and a 60 minute presentation around your core message.
[00:12:10] That'll cover 99% of any speaking opportunity you've got. So that 25 minute contact every rotary club within 50 miles of where you live. They're looking for people every week. Civic organizations, chambers of commerce. We've seen people use just that alone and explode their coaching, speaking opportunities.
[00:12:31] That's a good place to start. And don't think that you're going to start as a $10,000 event. Speaker that's unrealistic. Do the things where you get paid nothing. I mean, I have so many. Mugs from rotary clubs I've got, and that's fine because those leads other opportunities as well, but find those opportunities where they're looking for speakers, craft your message, practice, practice, practice, practice.
[00:13:00] [00:12:59] Again, I can't emphasize that enough. I mean, really lean into learning how to speak well on a walk on the stage on a stand, how to use your hands, how to speak from your diaphragm instead of your lungs, where you get. Short on breath and going to vocal fry. Those are all things to be learned. If you're going to speak, learn how to do it.
[00:13:18] Well, there's some great teachers out there, information on doing that, but it's something that can be done. There's a lot of speakers out there. You can get opportunities today. No question about it.
[00:13:34] Scott Maderer: [00:13:34] One of those things, the, you know, speaking for free first I've done a lot of those events. And again, today, the world is different in that used to, you could go speak at a rotary that was down the road. Now there's a lot of places that are looking for someone to come speak that are a zoom call or a Skype call away as well.
[00:13:54]I've done a lot of virtual speaking events, especially this year where I've gone in and talked [00:14:00] again to for free, but. Just an organization that's 200 miles away because they're looking for that today, so that that's expanded those opportunities. And actually hasn't made them go away. Despite what a lot of people are saying,
[00:14:13] Dan Miller: [00:14:13] well, we want to be quick to add there too.
[00:14:15] Even those that were paid events and I had multiple paid events that were lined up. Now, some of those went away. Totally interesting. Some of those in the university arena that we had booked and they got postponed, then they got postponed again. And ultimately they said, you know what, not enough, not enough kids are coming back to campus.
[00:14:33] We're gonna, it's interesting to see how those went away. Those in the corporate arena did not. So I fulfilled a lot of those engagements with the compensation that was agreed on any way, even though they've done them virtually. So it doesn't mean the event, the opportunities have gone away. They've changed.
[00:14:53] They've changed. Opportunities are still there. Yes.
[00:14:58] Scott Maderer: [00:14:58] I hesitate. I hate to say this out loud, but [00:15:00] I will. I wonder if having come from the academic world where I was a teacher, you know, unfortunately, sometimes education is a little slow to adapt. To new ways of doing things. So I wonder if that has some, some influences or reasons for some of that change too.
[00:15:18] Dan Miller: [00:15:18] Yeah, you're correct. I don't think it's any secret that the academic community tends to catch up with what's happening in the real world. Tend not to be the leaders in that, but they catch up. I mean, look, how many schools now have schools for entrepreneurship? It didn't start out of universities. They saw what was happening with Michael Dells and bill Gates and Richard Branson.
[00:15:39] And so now they saw how popular there was universities used to resist having students graduate who wanted to be entrepreneurs. It didn't show up with their model and there's statistics for showing how many of their graduates got high paying jobs? Well, here's a kid who started a landscaping business.
[00:15:57] Wow. We don't want that in our record. [00:16:00] Now he's going to make a hundred thousand where somebody who got a job make 40. Anyway. Well, I didn't mean to go down.
[00:16:05] Scott Maderer: [00:16:05] No, no, it's right. Well, it's actually, there's a statistic. So I graduated from Texas a and M university and Texas a and M is actually proud of saying they have more CEO.
[00:16:15] Oh, those that have graduated from a and M than from Harvard. Now, part of the reason they can say that is because a lot of folks that grow graduate from a and M go and become their own business and they are a CEO there they're there. They're running their own business. And so they may not be a CEO of a fortune 500 company though.
[00:16:37] Zachary engineering is an example of somebody that graduated from radium that did become a fortune 500, but it's, it's still, you know, they, they are CEOs, they're running their own businesses. So it's interesting how some universities actually embraced that model in a different way. Then others too, you know, they're bidding
[00:16:57] on
[00:16:57] Dan Miller: [00:16:57] their bathroom.
[00:16:58] It came a far as the fact that [00:17:00] their graduates couldn't get a job.
[00:17:01] Scott Maderer: [00:17:01] Yeah. He hit it. They said they're CEOs only true.
[00:17:09] So you also have a passion for writing. You know, obviously we're talking about the 48 days book. You've got many other written material that's out there, and I know that you've referred to it. I've heard you call it before. That's one of your core passions, one of your core gifts. So what advice do you have for folks that feel that writing is the way they want to develop their influence?
[00:17:31] Dan Miller: [00:17:31] If it really is, then start writing, start doing a blog, start, submitted things to magazines and newspapers that are always looking for content. Okay. Submit content other people's websites. Let it be known that you have an area of expertise. Don't right here. Here's the catch 22 in this people say, gee, I think I ought to have a book.
[00:17:53] And so they force themselves to sit down and artificially create content that doesn't work. Don't write because you [00:18:00] think you want to have a book, right? Because you have something in a message you cannot contain. I mean that that's really that's a real significant difference there. If you see writing as a hardship, don't do it.
[00:18:14] You don't need to have a book. There's a lot of people successful. Don't have a book, but if you love writing, then nothing can stop you. Here's kind of a little bit more on that, Scott. I don't know how deep you want to go on this, but I put together. The rough notes from that Sunday school class that I was teaching where all this material started, where I was testing out all these concepts about how people navigate these relentless, inevitable transitions in their career in business.
[00:18:43] So I put together just those rough notes. Because people were asking me for it. They said, wow, I've got a son-in-law who's been out of work for three months. What do you have that I can give him, I didn't have anything. So, because the repeated requests I've put together, go to Kinko's and put together those rough notes in [00:19:00] a spiral bound workbook.
[00:19:01] And then I put a little single cassette with that. And then as time went on, we got a little more sophisticated, put it in a three ring binder. With two cassettes in there. Then I went to a Mark Victor Hansen conference called mega book university in Los Angeles. I saw that he was going to be sharing his ideas about selling books and Mark Victor Hansen being the coauthor of chicken soup for the soul.
[00:19:27] And they had already sold millions of copies at this point. It's it's half a billion copies. So this guy, obviously he knows a little bit about selling books. So I talked to Joanne. She agreed. I said, let's go to this. I tapped my good friend, Dave Ramsey. I said, Hey, we need to go to this. He had just come out with his own self published version of his little financial peace book.
[00:19:47] We both went, took our wives, Joanne and Sharon went with us. We sat there for three days. I came back and I just started doing what he had talked about in the next 30 months. I sold over $2 million worth of that three ring binder. [00:20:00] Now I had never talked to a publisher. I never talked to a literary agent ever go into a library then.
[00:20:06] I had publishers knocking on my door there, we see what you're doing. Can we please publish this in a traditional trade book? Now that's very much the reverse of what we see most people doing. They get an idea, Oh, I want to have a New York times best-selling book. Who's going to pay me money for my idea.
[00:20:25] So I can write this book. Well, that's like standing in front of the, woodstove a life saying, give me heat. And next year I'll put in some wood and the farmer says, you know, go or give me a really good crop of corn next year. I'll actually plant some seeds. You don't have to wait. You don't have to wait on anybody.
[00:20:42] If you want to write, write something, it has value. Have people affirm the value it has and doors will just start opening. Like Domino's in front of you.
[00:20:54] I just recently had Mark Victor Hansen on, he's got a new book out after all these years, I had him back on [00:21:00] my podcast, interviewed him and reviewed some of those early details. He was astounded. We had some really good memories there and we're going to do some things together. This coming year. But
[00:21:10] Scott Maderer: [00:21:10] that interesting that, that comes full circle.
[00:21:12] Dan Miller: [00:21:12] Oh my, you know, it was a delight to catch up with him again.
[00:21:18] Scott Maderer: [00:21:18] Well, and you know, and again, you were doing that before. Quote, self publishing was the big thing.
[00:21:26] Dan Miller: [00:21:26] I didn't know, even understand the mechanics of self publishing. I just knew that people were asking me for that content and I just started making them available for them.
[00:21:36] And we went from the little spiral binding to the three-ring binder with cassettes, and then we upgraded, went to CDs and it was in that version that I had that real upswing and sales and then went to traditional book. Yeah.
[00:21:52] Scott Maderer: [00:21:52] So what year did the traditional book first come out
[00:21:56] Dan Miller: [00:21:56] in? Hardback came out in 2005.
[00:21:59] Scott Maderer: [00:21:59] Okay. [00:22:00] Yes,
[00:22:01] Dan Miller: [00:22:01] dated the material in 40 days, every five years updated in Oh five, 10, 15, 20. And I've already got extensive notes for what will be included in the 2025 version.
[00:22:13] Scott Maderer: [00:22:13] You're already working on it. Awesome. That's
[00:22:16] Dan Miller: [00:22:16] already working on it.
[00:22:18] Scott Maderer: [00:22:18] So, do you have notes yet for the how are you going to do 48 years though?
[00:22:21] Cause that's what an increment of five.
[00:22:23] Dan Miller: [00:22:23] I'll probably do a special . Yes, absolutely.
[00:22:30] Scott Maderer: [00:22:30] You can follow Dan on twitter@fortyeightdaysteamrfindhimonhiswebsiteatfortyeightdays.com and that's the number's 48. He's also active on LinkedIn at 48 days. And Dan has made a free gift available, including how you can get a free chapter of the book and some other great resources available over@fortyeightdays.com slash.
[00:22:54] I guess for inspired stewardship, I'll have links to all of these in the show notes as well. Dan, is [00:23:00] there anything else you'd like to share with the
[00:23:01] Dan Miller: [00:23:01] listener? You know, there's something, as you've talked, I've gotten a better feel for who your audience is and how you think. And you know, so often I hear people who think they've missed their window of opportunity, unity.
[00:23:11] And I hear from 27 year olds who think they might majored in the wrong thing in college, you know, now they just have to kind of coast into the grave now. Oh my goodness, that you aren't even old enough to ask the right questions and yet hang in there. But if there's one piece encouragement, I don't love to leave with your listeners.
[00:23:27] It's that? It's never too late to have a new beginning. So it doesn't matter if you're 27 or if you're a 57 or 77, it may be a time where you have fresh insight into really what your core passions are. The things that you really have to offer that could make a dent in the universe. And now's the time to step into that.
[00:23:50] And you can walk into the most productive, fulfilling time of your life. So never too late to have a new beginning.
[00:23:57] Scott Maderer: [00:23:57] Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. And it has [00:24:00] been great to have you.
[00:24:01] Dan Miller: [00:24:01] Thank you so much. God, my honor.
[00:24:08] Scott Maderer: [00:24:08] Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
[00:24:36] All one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the [00:25:00] world.


In today's episode, I ask Dan about:

  • What leadership really is...  
  • The difference between a hobby and a business and how that often involves finding one message but sharing it multiple ways...
  • His tips on sharing your message with speaking and writing...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

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And the three legs are passion talent and money.  That’s what has to be present if something is really productive. – Dan Miller

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Helping people to be better Stewards of God's gifts. Because Stewardship is about more than money.

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