Episode 1638: Interview with David Cunningham About The Love Matters Collaboration

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Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 1,638 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

David Cunningham: I'm David Cunningham. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to recognize your footprint of love is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

It is pure brain function. Which ones we get so to, if our relationships are based on a feeling, will those feelings come and go? And if our relationships are based on the thought process, will those thoughts come and go? But there's something else besides thoughts and feelings, which are things that we have.

We have

Scott Maderer: Welcome [00:01:00] and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself.

Invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

This podcast episode I interview David Cunningham. I ask David to share with you his work around Love does matter and his book, your Love Does Matter. I ask David about why he is focused so much on the power of love, and David also shares with you his current project. Love Goes to the Capital. I have a great book that's been out for a while now called Inspired Living.

Assemble the Puzzle of Your [00:02:00] Calling by Mastering your Time, your Talent, and your Treasures. You can find out more about that book over an inspired living book.com. It'll take you to a page where there's information and you can sign up to get some mailings about it, as well as purchase a copy there. I'd love to see you.

Get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. David Cunningham is a renowned, transformational teacher, spiritual practitioner, and lifelong advocate for humanity. From humble beginnings in rural Pennsylvania to leading arguably the number one transformational program on six continents, David's impact spans over 30 years as a senior program leader with landmark worldwide.

Where he helped more than 500,000 people unlock new levels of freedom, authenticity, and love. His leadership has supported communities in healing, executive leaders in evolving, and people from all walks of life in rediscovering what truly matters in their lives. David's [00:03:00] life is also a testament to courage and service.

As a former special education teacher, LGBTQ plus rights advocate and spiritual guide, he continues to create powerful new platforms for change. He is founded the Love Matters collaboration, a movement anchoring love as their preeminent way of being. This fall, he'll launch the Awakening of Flagship Transformational Weekend designed to help people break through shame, judgment, and separation so they can live from love fully and freely.

David is also spearheading love goes to the Capitol, a national initiative to send a copy of his book to every member of the US Congress, inviting political leaders into a deeper conversation on compassion, humanity, and the power of love to guide public service. His book, your Love Does Matter. A journey to New Consciousness and Expanding Your Love Footprint is the distilled summary of all his life work.

This book offers a profound path to healing, [00:04:00] forgiveness, loving freely and fully, and spiritual growth, helping each of us reclaim the truth that we

are here to love. Today we'll explore David's incredible journey, his transformational teachings, and how each of us can expand our own love footprint in the world.

Welcome to the show, David.

David Cunningham: Thank you. Hello and hello to everybody listening.

Scott Maderer: You know, I, I really enjoy, uh, getting to know you, getting to know your story a little bit, getting to know more about your, your journey and your, your message. I. Well, I shared a lot in the intro about some of the work you've done over the years, some of your experiences, but I also know that intros, I always think of intros like Instagram photos, you know, we just frame part of the picture.

It never shows the whole, the dirty laundries right outta frame, you know, that kind of thing. So talk us, take us back in time a little bit and talk, share a little bit about your, your journey. Uh, you know, kind of how you grew up and why now this is [00:05:00] the, the message. That you're putting out and the work you're doing around love.

David Cunningham: Beautiful. Well, again, the message that I'm committed now and what I've dedicated the next 30 years of my life to, I'm 74 and what I've dedicated the next 30 years of my life to now, my mom's 99, so I got good genes and I expect to live a long time.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. My, my, my mom's 85 and, and she keeps talking about, you know, when it's gonna be, and I'm point out to her that her grandmother, my great-grandmother, died at like 98.

My great-grandfather died. Like 92 or 95. I'm like, mom, you can live to be 112. Okay. Just chill out. Take your

David Cunningham: time. Chill out. That's right. Exactly. At any rate, um, so I really looked to see when I, I retired a few, a few years ago and uh, officially and I looked to see what I wanted the next 30 years of my life to be about it.

And I really created for myself and have been very empowered by. That what I'm here for is to have love prevail as the preeminent way of being on the planet, like planet wide, worldwide, the [00:06:00] way that human beings be that prevails is loving. Now where that starts, let's go back then in time, as you said. So I think it starts way back when I was four years old, believe it or I, I was raised in a really small town in Western New York state.

Uh, we went to a really small church and one night my family took me to a candlelight service, which was, you know, quite mesmerizing for me. 'cause the whole sanctuary was lit just by candles. And the service was a artist painting a picture of Jesus and children on a velvet canvas. So, I don't know if you've ever seen a velvet painting, but.

Yep. They usually sell 'em by the highway. They're paintings of Elvis Presley or Tigers or something. I,

Scott Maderer: I've, I'm from the South. I've seen lots of velvet paintings.

David Cunningham: Okay, great. This was a picture of Jesus and the children on velvet. And in my 4-year-old eyes, it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen.

And I would say that it was my first encounter with my own soul because I sat there and watched and I was so overtaken by [00:07:00] Jesus's love for the children. And I remember saying to myself. I love that much. That's how much I love. That's how much I love people. And so again, I really do think that was my first encounter with my own soul.

And, um, that was four years old happened and, you know, a few years later, my dad, I'm not sure why still to this day, but my dad became very violent. And, uh, our household went from a loving household to a violent household. We moved away from the rest of my family, and so that we got isolated in that way.

And the love that I thought we had with our extended family seemed to not matter anymore. Then I came out as a gay man and I got told my love was inappropriate. Um, unacceptable. And then, you know, so over time I lost for myself. I, I closed my heart and I lost my commitment to be that loving person that I had known myself to be.

So, um, the journey I've been on since then, uh, uh, was to, um, recover that or to [00:08:00] reignite that flame, so to speak. I did a transformational program myself in 1983. It was called DS Training. I think that was my first real opening again. I was in a room of 300 people in a ballroom in a hotel in New York City for this program.

And at some point on the last day, I saw this room of 300 people from all over the world, so diverse. It was unimaginable, really love each other. Like everyone was accepted, everyone was accepting everybody, and it, it like reignited that flame for me. And then a few years later I met a spiritual guru. Her name is Sima.

And in meetings, her Holiness sma SMA touched my heart again and just gave me permission to be fully, fully loving again. And, uh, so for the last, you know, last many years, uh, and then I led that program that I did in 1930. I went, hadn't led that program for 35 years around the world. And got touched by hundreds of thousands of people around the [00:09:00] world.

So, and then I looked at today's world and saw, boy, it's just missing, isn't it? Today's world, we're trying to resolve things by being right. That, that if, if you look at the arguments families are having with each other and governments are having with each other, it's about who's right and who's wrong.

And, um, uh, so I'm out to have us discover together that nobody's right. We've never been right. Nobody's ever been right. Nobody's ever been wrong. We each have a view of life, and no two people have the same view, but no view. If you're in front of my house and I'm in back of my house, we have different views.

But to argue which is the right one or the wrong one, makes no sense, does it? It's just different views.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

David Cunningham: And if we can approach each other from an appreciation for each other's views of life versus that argument about who's right and wrong. We could free ourselves up again to have love prevail as a preeminent way of being on the planet.

So it's not a righteous message called we should be more loving. And it's not a Pollyannish message, like, wouldn't it be [00:10:00] nice if we're all more loving? It's a message about what will have us be fulfilled, joyous, and effective 'cause. Our world's greatest leaders, the Maha Ma Gandhis, the Martin Luther Kings are the people that refused not to love.

So it's a matter of real effectiveness as well. So that's my invitation. People. Let's, uh, let's, uh, discover our pathway to being a loving society again.

Scott Maderer: One of the things too that I've seen, I think when, when people are arguing is if you really dig in, a lot of times there, there's a lot of agreement about what is important or what should happen.

What the argument is about is what's the best way to get there.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's like, you know, we, we don't want people to, to starve to death. Most people would go, yes, that's true. I don't want people, but now how do we prevent people from starving? Oh, now we've gotta fight. You know, is it this way or is it that way?

Or, you know, who, whose [00:11:00] responsibility is it? And all of that. And that's where the knockdown drag out happens. And it's like, well wait, you're losing. You're losing sight of the fact that you both agree this is a good thing. You know?

David Cunningham: That's an important point. That's why a lot of times in conversations, somebody will be saying something to me and I'll go, now tell me why that's important to you.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

David Cunningham: And if I ask 'em why it's important, why do you care so much about that? It takes us right to that level you're talking about, and then all of a sudden we're on the same page again. We're actually agreeing again.

Scott Maderer: Right. Yeah. My, uh, I've, I've had that experience even with, with clients, you know, other people that are, are very diverse, very different parts of the world, and yet.

More often than not, there's a lot of common ground if you just work to find it. You know, if you look for it, it's like, um, you, you can find those places where it's like, oh, actually, yeah, we agree on that. Okay, well now the fact that we disagree on this other thing, at least we could have a. A caring conversation about it as opposed to scream at each [00:12:00] other at the top of our lungs, which, which is a former school teacher.

I have learned it's not a real effective way of communicating. Um,

David Cunningham: no, no, but people do and, you know, to, to somehow work with other people. Sometimes people try to be the right one. They try to be logical, they try to be strategic, they try to be convincing. Okay. None of which is really powerful. Here's what works.

Loving.

Scott Maderer: Loving. I

David Cunningham: mean, loving. That's what has us be able to work together, is love each other. If you and I are present to our love for each other, we can accomplish anything together. And I don't care if you're my teenage child or you're my boss, or you're a politician, I don't care. It's what has us be able to work together.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

David Cunningham: And you know, it's what is natural for us is what I would argue, you know, I don't ever say to people, you should be more loving. Never. What I argue is that we're naturally loving and that if somehow we're not, something caught us. Some, we got trapped. We're not free. So we got [00:13:00] trapped in judgment, or we got trapped in resentment, or we got trapped in fear and we closed our hearts in the face of it.

So the job isn't to become more loving, the job is to remove the judgments, the resentments, the fear, the regrets, and when you remove that. Which has become normal by the way. We, it's become normal for us to judge each other. That's become normal. But just because something's normal doesn't mean it's natural.

There's a big difference. So I assert that what's natural for us is to love. And so the job is to not try to be more loving, but keep ourselves free. And when we're free, we love.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. So, talk a little bit more. You know, one of the things I I like to highlight on the show is what I call the intersection between our, our faith journey and our life journey.

And you shared a little bit about that earlier, but I wanna unpack that a little bit more. You know, early in your life you had a, a, a faith-based experience that included the experiencing, loving, and then. You also had faith-based [00:14:00] experiences that were negative around that. But how has your, how has your faith journey kind of intersected with your development around this, this feeling and message of, of your love matters?

David Cunningham: Yeah, it's really, um, I really appreciate my upbringing in that. That foundation of faith that, you know, that foundation of, you know, I guess my mom raised me to live in Christ's example. Um, and so that's always been a, to live living in Christ's example has always been something important to me, and I think that's not even a religious.

Conversation. That's a, you know, it is, you know, that's a, that's for Christians, non-Christians, that's for anybody in the world. The possibility of living in Christ's examples, like living in my Gandhi's example, or living in Dr. King's examples. The, but at a very high level, living in Christ's example and, um.

And that's where, uh, for me, the, the, I've discovered new realms or expanded the boundaries of compassion, of living without judgment and of what I [00:15:00] call grace, you know, bestowing grace on people, which is. Offering love that doesn't have to be deserved and will never be taken away. And on the street, like how that sounds is very simple, is I wish people well, no matter what they've done, who they are.

I do wish them well. I wish them peace. I wish them love, I wish them safety. I wish them health bestowing grace on people. So from that early. Upbringing and that that, uh, that introduction to the possibility of living in Christ's example, to, you know, being an adult in the world, finding a way to bestow grace on people, I think has become very practical, applicable, practically, is what I'm trying to say.

Scott Maderer: So. Let's talk a little bit about, uh, a little bit more about love itself, because I think, you know, people hear that, they think of an emotion, they think of the feeling they have for their spouse or their child, or their, their parent, or, you know, these sorts of [00:16:00] things. They kind of have a. Um, an intellectual understanding or, uh, you know, they could gimme the definition, maybe, you know, that kind of thing.

Uh, though I think most people would actually struggle to define love. But you think you're right. Yeah. They think they can give a definition, let me put it that way. Um, 'cause as I was thinking that through, I'm like, wait, how would I actually define that? That, that, that's more challenging than, than you might think.

So talk for you, unpack a little bit more. What do you, what do you mean by. By your love matters. What do you mean by be more, you know, not. Love more, but, but release or unlock that ability to love that we naturally have, you know, so what, what is love and what do you mean by that process?

David Cunningham: Beautiful. I, I really think it's important for us as human beings to relate to love as a way of being, which is not the way most people relate to it.

Most people relate to it as either an emotion, like, I feel love, or I don't feel love. Or a thought process like, you know, I have loving thoughts or I don't have loving [00:17:00] thoughts, but there's a real predicament with that, which is that we don't have any say about our emotions and we don't have any say about our thoughts.

It's pure brain function, which ones we get so to, if our relationships are based on a feeling, will those feelings come and go? And if our relationships are based on a thought process, will those thoughts come and go? But there's something else besides thoughts and feelings, which are things that we have.

We ha we have thoughts and we have feelings, and we have no control over the ones we have. Alright? But there's another domain of our life, which is who we be as human beings. There's ways of being like, I could be generous, I could be stingy, I could be tender, I could be cold, I could be respectful, I could be disrespectful.

Those are ways of being and. Loving is a way of being, and the good news about ways of being is we have total say about it. That is up to us. Whether I'm generous or sincy, that's up to [00:18:00] me. Whether I'm tender or cold, that's up to me at any moment, anytime, anywhere, under any circumstance. So when people relate to love as a way of being versus a thought process or an emotional stake, it puts them in the driver's seat of their, their life.

Like they get to choose being loving as a way of being.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. And you're, you're very careful there to use the word being not doing. Mm-hmm. Talk a little bit about, you know, the difference there between being loving and, you know. Doing acts of love, um, 'cause I'm gonna use generosity for a second as an analogy.

You know, I've seen people who aren't generous. Well, if you wanna become generous, you do have to then go act generously, but there's more to it than that. Talk. Talk a little bit about that.

David Cunningham: I think it goes the other way. So, most people try to live in the direction of having than doing, than being. If I have loving emotions.

Then I'll take loving actions. I'll do [00:19:00] loving things, and then I'll be a loving person.

Scott Maderer: Right,

David Cunningham: right. It doesn't work that way. Life doesn't work well that way. It goes the other direction. Oh, first I choose to be a loving person. Then I go back and take loving actions. Having made my choice about the human being, I'm gonna be so, I make my choice.

You know, forgiveness. Let's do forgiveness. I think that'll work here. When we forgive, people have a notion like of forgiveness. They have difficulty with forgiveness. 'cause two things. One is they think if they forgive somebody, it condones what they did. Approves what they did, excuses what they did, gives 'em permission to do it again.

Or they think they have to feel forgiving or the forgiveness has to be logical, will make sense to them before they can forgive. None of that is the case. Forgive. I give you my love, like I gave it to you before anything happened. It's a choice. One makes you just did something. Now I have a choice make. I either start being a resenting person or I'd be a [00:20:00] loving person.

It's my choice. You did what you did, but I have a choice now, which human being am I gonna be? And again, it's not a moralistic conversation. Let's just deal with deal with life. It's that we, when we're resenting, we are miserable human beings. We do not enjoy life at all. So I don't know why we choose resenting, right?

Scott Maderer: We

David Cunningham: don't enjoy. So we get to choose being loving. And that's what forgiveness is. No matter what you did. I'm gonna love you. Then go ahead and take the actions that a loving person would take. Then the, the miracle is then you have, you'll find out. Then you have the emotions and thoughts that go along with being a loving person.

So it goes the other direction. Right? It starts with being, then doing, then having,

Scott Maderer: well, and it's a feedback loop because, you know, again, as you, as you, as you are, as you decided to be more loving. Then you can take more loving action, which lets you feel more loving, which makes it easier to be loving, [00:21:00] you know?

Mm-hmm. As opposed to harder, you're, you're working, you're working with the momentum as opposed to against it, so to speak. Yeah,

David Cunningham: and it's important to get to that the way the other person treats us has nothing to do it. Nothing

Scott Maderer: to do with it. Yeah.

David Cunningham: So if you are loving me. I'm cranky. I don't experience love.

I experience crankiness,

Scott Maderer: right?

David Cunningham: If you're respecting me and I'm disrespecting you, I don't experience respect. I experience disrespect goes the other way too, right? You're cranky with me and I'm compassionate, loving with you. I experience love and compassion, not crankiness. If you are disrespectful of me and I respect you, I experience respect.

So the experience we have in our own lives has nothing to do with the way the other person is, which is really real freedom there to get that.

Scott Maderer: Unless we let it. I mean, and, and I like, I like to point out to people when people say things like, oh, David made me angry. I'm like, do you realize you're giving David the power over you?

Yeah, exactly. [00:22:00] You know, you, you're actually empowering David. You're saying he's more powerful than me. He's, he's able to control me and it's like, wait a minute. So accurate. Why would you do that

David Cunningham: so accurate? Nobody can make his be anyway. So Nelson Nadel approved that to us, didn't he? What did he have? He had a prison cell.

What did he do? He pounded rocks for 26 years. What gave that man his dignity, his fulfillment was who he was being that whole time. And they can put us in prison, they can hold a gun to him, but they can't make his be a certain way. That's ours.

Scott Maderer: Right.

David Cunningham: We have that choice and that's where our freedom and our power comes from.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. I've, I've used that example with clients when they say I have to mm-hmm. On something I say, you're not allowed to say, I have to. You have to say, I chose to

David Cunningham: good

Scott Maderer: because the truth is. There are things that if I put a gun to you said head and said, Hey, you've got to do this, or I'm gonna shoot you. I don't know about you, but I will say, there are some things that you could tell me when that situation I'm going, you're just gonna have to shoot [00:23:00] me 'cause I'm not doing it.

You know that. Mm-hmm. That's beyond the pale. There are other things that I would absolutely do. Mm-hmm. You know, um, but there's a limit. There is a point where I'd go, Nope. Nevermind.

David Cunningham: Yeah. But in that domain of being, they can't, they can't, they can't change it. They can't make you be a certain way. Nobody can make you be a certain way.

Right. They

Scott Maderer: can make you take an action, but they can't make you change your, your inner state. Which is why there's a line, by the way, 'cause if they could change my being, there wouldn't be a line.

David Cunningham: Mm-hmm. Very nice. Very good. Very important to get. And so that puts people in the driver's seat of their own lives.

And that's where we want people, the author of their own lives.

Scott Maderer: So now let's talk about what It's hard all and all of this stuff, and I agree percent. I also know there are days that. You know, you get up and things aren't working right and you know, the coffee pot's broken and oh, you know, this other person's being mean and this and that and the other, whatever it is.

The things that come at us that feel like we [00:24:00] have, have lost control or have given up that control. What do you do or what do you help people recognize as things that they can do to, to sustain that state of being? Even, you know, when there's challenge, there's conflict, there's heartbreak, there's all of the other.

Stuff that comes at us every day.

David Cunningham: Well, a couple things. One is the, the most important thing is I'd like us to consider as a society that we have a love footprint. So we've been talking for a while now about having a carbon footprint. Okay. Well, I assert we also have a love footprint. In other words, every time we leave an interaction, whether it's a 32nd interaction with a clerk in a store, a two hour lunch with our family, or working side by side with a colleague for a year.

Every time we leave an interaction, we leave something behind. The question is, what do we leave behind? Do we leave behind argument, righteousness, judgment? Do we leave behind indifference or do we in fact leave behind the experience of love? So I call that our love footprint, and [00:25:00] I think it's important. I know for myself, I have a daily practice.

And my practice is before I start my day, like before I started this conversation, I think about my day. I think about who I'm going to interact with and I decide ahead of time what love, what I want my love footprint to be at the end of that interaction. And uh, and then when I'm done with the interaction, I give myself a score.

Like how would I do on a scale of zero to five? A five is I left love behind A zero is, I blew it. Now, the good thing about blowing it, okay, like I did, oh, I can't tell you about two months ago I had this interaction with my dry cleaner of all people, right? Over shirts. But it was the most terrible interaction, right?

I can't believe, you know, and we are again arguing about who is right about the how the shirts were done, right? It was just, and I had, I walked outta the dry cleaner and I had to deal, deal with, I blew it. That was just the, I left nothing but righteousness behind. Right? So, luckily I had a 10 minute drive home, and by the time I got home, I [00:26:00] called him right away and apologized and cleaned it up and gave him back all my respect.

Okay. So we can clean it up even if we blow it, you can clean it up in a second and, and so. The answer to your question is we can pay attention to our love footprint and know that we have a choice about what we provide people, what we leave in any interaction. And it's correctable. No matter how much we blow it, we can correct it in a moment's notice.

And one more little point is that, and that's a like a short point, but an important one is. We do have a say. I wanna go back to this thing. We have a say about who we be no matter what. So for instance, when I'm tired, can I be cranky? Sure. When I'm tired, can I be silly? Sure. When I'm tired, could I be affectionate?

Yeah. Who's it up to? Me. When I'm angry, could I be argumentative? Sure. [00:27:00] When I'm angry, could I be quiet? Sure. When I'm angry, could I actually be tender and affectionate? Yes, I could, couldn't I? Mm-hmm. And we probably all had that experience, especially with babies or pets. It's harder, harder with adults, but nonetheless.

But nonetheless, it's important for us to get that no matter what emotional state we're having.

Scott Maderer: Right. We

David Cunningham: still have a choice about who we be, right? No matter what's going on and around us, we still have that choice. It's our, it's if we have a birthright, that's it. We have a choice about who we be.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

David Cunningham: And so, you know, I'd like, you know, I'm on a mission to have the world start being conscious of our love footprint, and if we could start paying attention to what's our love footprint, that would be a, a major step forward for us as a civilization, I think.

Scott Maderer: Oh, absolutely. The other thing you mentioned earlier, and I wanna talk about it a little bit, is that oftentimes when folks are struggling with being loving, there's other things, you know, [00:28:00] there's resentment, there's fear, there's there's past history or, or there's things, um, that are perhaps blocking that.

That experience for, for someone who realizes that they're holding on to fear, frustration, whatever it is, past habits, past mindsets, past behaviors, what, what are some of the things that you show people to help 'em move past that and actually take on this? This aspect of loving

David Cunningham: well, we've all been educated in their, the whole world is right or wrong, good or bad, should or shouldn't be a certain way.

We just got educated that the whole world got educated, that there's not a human being walking the planet that didn't get educated in that as we were growing up, because we just listened to the people around us and they, nobody around us as we were growing up, ever just said weather. They said good weather or bad weather.

Nobody said music. They said good music or bad music. Everything was framed as good or bad, right or wrong, should or shouldn't be that way. [00:29:00] What they didn't be careful and educate us in is that that was all made up. In other words, we educate like, no, the music is, is really good or bad and the weather really is good or bad, versus No, the weather is what the weather is.

The music is what the music is, and we're calling it good, or we're calling it bad. And so we got educated that things are good and bad, and therefore we got trapped in judging. So to free ourselves from judging. Others and judging ourselves requires being willing to step out of that paradigm and go, oh, wait a minute.

Maybe nothing is good or bad. I have a, I have, it's up to me if I can relate to something is good or bad. But it is not that. And that frees us from the rigidity, the, the frozenness of our judgments of ourself and others.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

David Cunningham: And that is an important freedom to get freedom from those judgments. And, um, [00:30:00] uh, so then that brings us to the topic of acceptance, right?

So most people struggle with acceptance. Because they think acceptance is approval. Like if I accept right? If I accept, if you're late and I accept that you're late, somehow I'm saying it's okay that you're late. That's not acceptance. I'd like people to consider acceptance has nothing to do with approval, nothing to do with saying something's, okay.

Acceptance is simply having something be what it is. So in other words, if I accept that it's raining, I'm not saying that it's okay that it's raining. I am not saying it's not okay, it's raining. I'm just simply saying it's raining and when I accept something without saying it's okay or not okay, just Oh, that's what's happening.

Then I can be smart. I can live intelligently. Oh, I can take an umbrella. 'cause I can be intelligent about what's happening versus caught in my judgment about what's happening.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

David Cunningham: So it leads to intelligent living as [00:31:00] well as free living

Scott Maderer: or, and intentional living. It lets you again have the power.

We're back to you've got the power and the choice.

David Cunningham: You're, you're the author of your life. That's right. Yeah. So acceptance is a, is something that we haven't mastered as a society. Because we think it, it implies approval, it doesn't. Acceptance is having something be what it is. It's not saying it's okay, it's just Oh, that's what's happening.

Scott Maderer: Right. And I can even articulate that. You know, David, you've been late. In the last three times that this is not acceptable. You know, this, this is not expected behavior. This is not okay because of this situation. Or, you know, I, but I can, I, I can do it in a David, why are you late? And you know how, you know, or I can have a conversation with you about the experience and ask questions

David Cunningham: and we can be intelligent.

Okay, you've been late three times now let's get intelligent about what we're gonna do about that. 'cause, you know, should we move

Scott Maderer: the meeting time? Should we, what's going on? Yeah.

David Cunningham: Is my telling you that it is bad? Doesn't seem to [00:32:00] have an impact. Right. You know, telling. But let's deal with that. Even at a social level, telling people that it's bad to do drugs, doesn't have 'em, stop doing drugs, telling people that it is wrong to molest children even.

Right. Uh, unbelievably doesn't have 'em, not molest children. So that whole system of saying something's bad or wrong does nothing to shape behavior. Nothing.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

David Cunningham: So it's not useful and in fact it's destructive 'cause it gets us trapped in judgment. So if you're late three times, you say, David, you're late three times.

With no judgment, just we can now deal with that. Okay, now what do we do? Let's be intelligent about it,

Scott Maderer: right? What, what, what's gonna be the natural next step that we're going to take? You know? And, and there's, and again, there's a very, there's an almost infinite number of choices of what can follow that, that situation too.

David Cunningham: But in the absence of judgment, I can work with you, right? I can be connected with you and we can work it out together. When the judgment comes in [00:33:00] like, oh, I'm a terrible person because I'm late three times. I then first off, they, my, what's natural is to defend myself and then we separate and we don't work together well.

Right.

Scott Maderer: Right. We're not having a, we're not actually trying to solve the problem. We're trying to prove who's right.

David Cunningham: Exactly.

Scott Maderer: And again, we're back to proving who's right.

David Cunningham: Very good. Very good. Very important. Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: Um, and again, usually if in a, an employee employer situation, the employer's like, I don't care if I write it or not, I'm the one that can fire you, so I'm right.

That's right. Right. And, and, and by the way, even if nobody ever says that out loud

David Cunningham: mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: That's implied. Um, yeah, you, you, you mentioned the tra or, or weather, and I've traveled a lot, including internationally, you know, all over the country. You know, Southern California, you know, Maryland, you know, all over.

And I jokingly say the one thing I can count on is no matter where I land. People there will tell me how that's the worst weather and the worst traffic.

David Cunningham: Yes,

Scott Maderer: period. No matter where. I don't care. It could be. It could be Southern [00:34:00] California and it's 72 degrees. You know, it can be Baltimore, Maryland, and there's snow on the ground.

Doesn't matter where it is and matter where the weather is. Everyone will tell me how terrible the weather is and how terrible the traffic is.

David Cunningham: I have the exact same I've led. Hundreds, thousands of events around the world and every time I'm getting ready to lead an event, whoever's organizing the event will come up to me a little bit before the event and go, you know, people may be late.

'cause there's always traffic around here.

Scott Maderer: And again, that's back to that. Okay. So if you know that, you know, why, why have you not changed your behavior? To adjust for the fact that there's gonna be traffic?

David Cunningham: Oh yeah. If we, but again, the point is if we can. It, it is important for us as a society to discover our freedom from judgment, resentment, regret, and fear.

And when we do, we can love and when we love, we can be effective. Right.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. I, I, I pulled in at, uh, I [00:35:00] think it was a Spurs game and, uh, when my son was young, and you know, of course there's a line to park in the parking lot and my son was like. Why is there a line? And I'm like, stop and think how many people are coming to the game.

You know? It's like, it's predictable that there's going to be a line, you know? So just be prepared for the fact that there's gonna be a line show up with plenty of time, you know, we can enjoy our day, we can take our time. We're early, you know, there's no, there's no problem. And.

Yeah.

As opposed to get freaked out and frustrated and, and honk my horn and all the other things, and it's like,

David Cunningham: yeah, it's called conscious living or intelligent living because when you can deal with what the facts are versus a judgment of those facts,

Scott Maderer: right, and, and in both cases.

I'd be in the same line. It's just, you know, and even for the same amount of time. So it's like I didn't change anything by honking the Lord.

David Cunningham: That's right.

Scott Maderer: Uh, so I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my [00:36:00] guests, but before I go there, is there anything else about your journey or, uh, your book, your Love does matter that you'd like to share with the listener?

David Cunningham: Yeah, I, the out of writing the book, I wrote the book, your Love Does Matter. Um, I wrote that book. Um, it was very important to me that it was not a book about love. Uh, 'cause you know, you can read a book about leadership and not end up a leader. You can read a book about losing weight and not end up losing weight.

So it, I didn't wanna write a book about love that had no impact for people. So I wanted to write a book that literally was a pathway, an opiate, like opened a door for people to discover this realm of being a loving human being and, and so I'm really satisfied. The feedback I'm getting on the book is, it accomplishes that, but then out of writing the book, and again, inside a commitment that love prevails on the planet.

So then I set up a nonprofit called The Love Matters collaboration, and people can check that out too. The Love Matters collaboration. And that is, um, I'm out to have met people, [00:37:00] join that. And, um, to be a member, you don't pay anything. I'll never charge a penny for membership 'cause I'm committed. People from all over the world can join.

And what I'm committed to is that we have members from every country in the world. And when you join the collaboration, guess what you do? You don't pay a fee. You sign a pledge to ever expand your love footprint. So I'm committed. We can have people from every country in the world who actually have pledge to expand their love footprint in the world.

And that's, and when love becomes a grassroots movement like that, we're winning.

Scott Maderer: So my brand has inspired stewardship and I kind of run things through that lens of stewardship, and yet I've discovered over the years that that's one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

So let me ask you, when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you?

David Cunningham: It means, uh, if I'm a steward of something, it means to me it's been entrusted to me to protect care for, nourish, have flourish. [00:38:00] So something has been entrusted to me if I'm the steward. So if one takes on a stewardship role.

It, it, it says that I am, I'm choosing to be entrusted with that. So if I'm a steward of a, of a business that I've been entrusted with the future of that business, if I'm the steward of a, uh, of a child, I've been entrusted with the care of that child. So it, it has to do with being entrusted with the care, the flourishing, the future of something.

That's what stewardship means to me. I.

Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Uh, imagine for a moment that I invented this magic machine, and with this machine, I was able to take you, David, from where you are today, and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years. But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life, see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left.

What impact do you [00:39:00] hope you've had in the world?

David Cunningham: Uh, the impact I hope I had in the world is that the world got freed to love and that's it. That simple that we got, we freed people from that which has closes their heart, and that people discovered their freedom to love and then they bet it all on love.

Bet it all. So in other words, I got something to resolve with my child. Uh, I could bet it on my being right? I could bet it on my logic. Yeah, that doesn't work very often. What if I bet every, I gotta work something out with my teenage child? I've gotta bet everything on that. My loving my child is what will make the difference.

Alright, I've gotta accomplish something with my boss. I could bet it on, like, you know, being brilliant or being smart. Okay, maybe. But what if I bet everything on that my love for my boss is what's gonna make the difference? I got something to accomplish politically. What if I bet it all in love? I know I could.

I could argue [00:40:00] how right I am and how idealistic my ideas are. Or I could say my effectiveness politically is gonna be based on one thing and one thing only is my love for everybody. So I, if I had to leave something behind, it would be a society that actually was betting everything on our love for each other.

Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next as you continue on your journey?

David Cunningham: Well, a couple things. Uh, one is, uh, building a worldwide membership for the Love Matters, collaboration. Another thing is a project called Love Goes to the Capitol. So I sent my book to every member of Congress and the president and the vice president of the United States, and we're now following up with phone calls to be in communication.

And again, I sent them, I sent the book to them with a message, Hey, this is not more listic like, you should be more loving. And it's not Pollyannish like, wouldn't it be nice? We're all loving. This is about effective leadership and leadership of legacy. And so I've got my book in the hands of every congressman and senator in the United States and the president and vice [00:41:00] president.

And then we're in, where I live in Pennsylvania, we're starting a project in January at the state level. We're gonna go to the state capitol every week for a year, once a week, and do an act of love. So the first week, um, I do a lot of work with guys right out of prison. So we're gonna take a group of formerly incarcerated men up and they're gonna deliver an orchid.

Every legislator. The next week we're gonna take a group of trans teenagers up and they're just gonna open the doors for legislators. No political talk whatsoever, just graciously, respectfully opening doors for people. The next week we're gonna take a group of moms up on food assistance and they're gonna deliver a letter of acknowledgement to every legislator, no consideration, whatever of what, how they voted, what their point of view is.

We're just gonna acknowledge 'em for being legislators. I'm committed that if we do that for a year. An act of love for a soir at the state level. We can infuse the political system with love. So that's one of my next major ventures here besides the membership of the collaboration.

Scott Maderer: Awesome. And so you can [00:42:00] find out more about David Cunningham and all of these things over at your love Does matter.com information about the book, everything is there.

Of course. I'll have a link to that in the show notes as well. David, anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

David Cunningham: To, let's expand our love footprint. We can all do that together. That's not an individual sport. That's a collective 7 billion people. Let's take on expanding our love footprint.

Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode, please, please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes.

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