Episode 1429: Interview with Kat Newport About Why Conflict is Creativity

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1429 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:08] Kat Newport: I'm Kat Newport. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to understand and resolve conflict in a healthy way is key.

[00:00:25] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this. The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer.

[00:00:41] Suspending the woulds, shoulds, and coulds. You should react this way. They should behave this way. It's about suspending that judgment, that preemptive piece that says this situation is happening. Everybody else I've met has acted like this. [00:01:00] Therefore, Scott, you should act like this.

[00:01:02] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:01:07] If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your wisdom. And your treasures for your true calling in the inspired stewardship podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:35] In today's podcast episode, I interview Kat Newport. I asked Kat about her book, Smart Conflict, and why conflict is creativity. I also asked Kat about what we can do to make conflict healthy instead of destructive, and Kat also shares several tips on how you can learn to handle conflict well. I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living, assembling the [00:02:00] puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures.

[00:02:04] You can find out more about it and sign up today.

[00:02:19] Cat Newport is the author of Smart Conflict and the founder of Oculus Inc. She's a dynamic force in leadership evolution. She has a commitment to using conflict as a catalyst for growth and innovation. And Cat empowers individuals and organizations to thrive together. Through authenticity, resiliency, and momentum.

[00:02:41] Under the banner of Oculus Inc, CAT provides individual and organizational services in conflict coaching, mediation, leadership development, workshops, and masterclasses. Welcome to the show, Kat.

[00:02:54] Kat Newport: Thank you so much for having me, Scott. It's great honor to be here.

[00:02:57] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I'm happy to have you. So I [00:03:00] talked a little bit in the intro about your book, Smart Conflict, some of the work you do, but I always laugh and tell people that intros are like Instagram photos.

[00:03:10] They don't show the whole picture the laundries over in the corner, out of frame, that kind of thing. Exactly. So when you think about your journey and what brought you to the point of focusing on conflict and putting that message out what is it that really got you here? Talk a little bit more about your journey and why is this what you want to do?

[00:03:34] Kat Newport: I get this question a lot. Why do you want to do what most other people avoid? Why do you voluntarily work in walk into these situations? Was

[00:03:43] Scott Maderer: there trauma as a child? Oh,

[00:03:46] Kat Newport: that's another show's topic. When I started in corporate, I was very young. I actually walked into my first corporate gig at the age of 19.

[00:03:57] Oh, wow. And bright eyed, bushy [00:04:00] tailed, completely naive, have no idea how to manage conflict in a corporate environment, could barely manage conflict, okay, not so great in a personal environment. And there were a lot of lessons that I learned over the many moons between then and now. And a lot of those hard learned lessons were intensely painful.

[00:04:20] As I learned the lessons, my skills got better and got better. And when I started doing organizational development in corporate, I created a program on conflict management, and it was the most popular program that was rolled out coast to coast, leaders from All major cities were involved in this.

[00:04:42] It was the most popular. And that's when I knew there was something to it. I wasn't the only one walking on this bed of nails trying to manage conflict. When I transitioned out of my last corporate position into entrepreneurship, I had to find a niche and [00:05:00] not a lot of folks are playing in conflict.

[00:05:03] Scott Maderer: And here I am. So even then so you were, you, it sounds like you found some of it just through your own, need to figure it out. But what was it about conflict and conflict resolution and dealing with conflict? What do you think was it that made it interesting to you?

[00:05:27] Kat Newport: Slightly intellectually arrogant. The fact that I couldn't figure it out so quickly, that lit a fire. Okay, I'm gonna figure this out. So that was number 1. I've really got to figure this out. And I started to notice the more I engaged in conflict in a positive, proactive way, I was starting to see my relationships improve.

[00:05:52] I was starting to see other people's perspectives. I was starting to see. Us being able to reach [00:06:00] organizational goals in ways we never thought of before the creativity and innovation when we started clashing our ideas as opposed to protecting our ideas when we push them together in a creative way in a dynamic way, we were able to take it to the next level.

[00:06:16] So once that started clicking into places this conflict thing is not all bad. There's something to it.

[00:06:25] Scott Maderer: And I'm a big believer in defining terms and defining words and I realized we just jumped in and talking about conflict, but, and everyone knows, quote, air quotes around that everyone knows what conflict is it's the, I'll know it when I see it kind of thing.

[00:06:40] But what is actually your definition of conflict, A, and then B, what's the difference between conflict and conflict? Bad and conflict done at least better I'm not gonna say perfectly, but at least better.

[00:06:57] Kat Newport: So at its essence, if we're not talking about [00:07:00] international conflict, and that's way beyond my expertise, when we're talking just interpersonal conflict, it's two different perspectives coming together.

[00:07:08] You have your ideas and thoughts and perspective. I have my ideas, thoughts, and perspective, and they don't match. I get called out a lot on that. What about the aggression? What about the yelling? When conflict's done better, when conflict's done right, in a healthy way, there shouldn't be a whole lot of that yelling and screaming and rending and tearing and ash throwing going on.

[00:07:35] It's a meeting of the minds in a healthy forward momentum kind of way. Conflict gets unhealthy when you get stuck. When you get stuck in trying to feel better, when you get stuck in trying to win, when you get stuck in trying to put forward your idea at all costs without taking into consideration the relationship, that's when it starts getting unhealthy.

[00:07:58] Scott Maderer: So [00:08:00] if you think of it that way of a difference of in a point of view what are some of the. things that can help us come into conflict with a more healthy outlook as opposed to I think a lot of times the yelling and the screaming comes out of, protectiveness, defensiveness, fear a lot of other emotions that we may not even want to admit we're feeling, but we still are feeling them.

[00:08:26] What are some of the mindsets or the frameworks that we can use to come into that with a little better mindset, a better frame to approach it?

[00:08:40] Kat Newport: This is where smart conflict came from trying to figure out what that framework is. And the 1st step in spark conflict is knowing the situation.

[00:08:48] And I know it sounds really silly that I'm telling you to understand what you're in conflict about.

[00:08:55] No, I've been in fights before where I didn't know what we were fighting about until later. [00:09:00] Excellent. So try to know that before you get into the conflict. A lot of us jump into conflict. Trying to feel better, or we jump into conflict over what we think is the problem. And here's my air quotes, capital T, capital P, the problem.

[00:09:17] And a lot of times it's not the case. So understanding what it is about the other person that's bringing them to this moment and what it is about you that's bringing you to this moment. is huge. So this is first step. And once you understand the crux of it, it helps measure that emotion, which is step two in the framework.

[00:09:36] Understand the situation, then measure the emotional response.

[00:09:41] Scott Maderer: So one of the things that I laughing about the I've been in fights where I didn't actually know what they were about, but one of the things I've seen about conflict too is, especially when you're in a leadership position, but I've seen this even in interpersonal things is [00:10:00] you can walk into conflict, it sneaks up on you.

[00:10:02] At times. There are times that you don't get the chance to prepare. You don't it's not like this is the meeting that I'm calling to have conflict it's this is the meeting. Oh my, I didn't realize that this conflict was here. So how do, how can we react or act in the moment when it does that, when it sneaks up on you and surprises you and you didn't know it was coming.

[00:10:26] Kat Newport: And responding with defensiveness. Respond with curiosity. What is it about the moment that's causing the conflict? What is your perspective? How did we get here? What are you thinking about this? What is it about this moment that's triggering you? These questions as opposed to you're silly, you don't know what you're talking about, just sit down and just deal with it.

[00:10:50] Huge difference in response. It's focused on that relationship piece. Respond with curiosity and you'll see that conflict change. [00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Scott Maderer: Let's broaden the conversation a little bit in that I think we, you talked about the corporate environment. I just used an example that's of somebody in leadership, but I think we all know that we see conflict in our our day to day relationships.

[00:11:15] We see it in our churches. We see it in our volunteer work that we do, whatever it shows up in our life. Is there anything That you've seen that makes it quote, different out in the real world versus in the workplace that, because I think a lot of times we want to set those up as if they're two different things is it that different to you?

[00:11:39] Kat Newport: Me? Not really. It's all about the relationship. And I think the biggest difference between the relationships at work and the relationships at home are the emotional proximity. But even then, when we look at conflicts in the workplace, you spend 40 waking hours with these people [00:12:00] or more, depends on where your balance point is or more with these people, just being in that environment for that prolonged period of time creates a huge emotional and mental load.

[00:12:13] When we flip it into the relationships at home, these relationships might not be as a lot of waking hours, but it is more intimate. There's a lot more emotional weight that goes along with it. So it tips the balance in another direction. So you may be great at handling relationship issues at work, but not so great at dealing with them at home.

[00:12:35] It's just about how that relationship dynamic works. But when you roll it all back, it's all about the relationship. How do you want that relationship to look like after the conflict?

[00:12:51] Scott Maderer: Is there work that needs to be done I'm hesitating on using the word work here in this sentence but I think it [00:13:00] is the right one.

[00:13:01] Is there work that needs to be done, out before the conflict arises and probably even after the conflict arises and hopefully has been dealt with in a healthy way to help? Because I'm thinking for instance, when you get the curiosity hat, using that as an example. That can come across as, I'm sincerely curious and I want to understand your point of view if the person trusts you and has some relationship with you, that can come across as almost irritating and demeaning in a different setting or with a different relationship.

[00:13:36] What is the work we can do before the conflict arises to help make the conflict able to be handled in a better way? I

[00:13:44] Kat Newport: love this question, because when we talk about conflict, we talk about conflict resolution, which is the middle step of this entire process. The work beforehand or the investment beforehand is all about mitigating conflicts and building the [00:14:00] relationships to reduce the number of conflicts you have and to improve your chances of resolving conflicts.

[00:14:07] So this is about having that transparency, having that open communication, building that trust, either in your relationship at home or in the workplace, there is work that goes in on the front end, that middle piece is that conflict resolution, understand the situation, measure your emotions, all of that stuff that all the training courses deal with, not many of them deal with the before piece.

[00:14:31] And then there's an after piece, and this is restoration. This is how do we restore trust and intimacy in the relationship, trust and love in the relationship after the conflict has happened? How do we continue building that relationship in a healthy way after we've had a flash point where we have disagreed?

[00:14:54] Scott Maderer: So how about for the person out there that's listening right now and I'm not gonna [00:15:00] name names, but I used to work for one of these who is hearing all of this and going this is all that emotional intelligence, woo fluffy stuff we shouldn't have to deal with that they just need to suck it up and and do the job because they're, that's what they're getting paid for not that I've ever heard those exact words, but I have to for that person that's feeling that right now what would you share?

[00:15:29] Kat Newport: Unless you're working exclusively with machinery, you are always working with emotions. I think the greatest phrase in one of my classes that I was teaching is emotions don't belong at work. There's no need to control them because they're not here. I'm like, my friend, if you are working with another human being, you are working with emotion.

[00:15:52] End of sentence, full stop. There's nothing else to add. If you look at an individual and expect them to act without emotion, you're going to be greatly [00:16:00] disappointed. If you're interacting with an individual, while disregarding emotion, you're going to get unexpected results because people will always react in an emotional way.

[00:16:11] If I think back throughout the year, All the clients I've had in my career, I can think of 1 leader that I dealt with that was very alpha, very, I have no emotions. But when he got upset, my word look out below, just explosive and then had the telemetry to say emotions don't belong in the workplace and you're looking back 10 minutes ago going then what the heck was that?

[00:16:40] Scott Maderer: Anger is not an emotion. That was justified.

[00:16:46] Kat Newport: I'll agree to disagree a little.

[00:16:51] Scott Maderer: But that, that, that often is the feeling is almost of there are, I think a lot of times what [00:17:00] it is it's not motion doesn't belong here, it's the emotion that isn't my emotion doesn't belong here, is often seems to be where the motivation comes from.

[00:17:14] Kat Newport: Absolutely, and this is where empathy comes into play, the intelligence part of emotional intelligence. That my story, my narrative, my experiences, give me a certain perspective on life, which will result in a certain reaction in a certain situation. Whereas your narrative and your experiences will bring you to the same point to the same event.

[00:17:37] with a completely different response. And it's understanding that and being able to hold that paradox so that you can move forward together that makes a conflict healthy. What happens when it's unhealthy is I'm looking at your emotional response or your response to the conflict going that's ridiculous.

[00:17:56] I don't understand that, smarten up. And you're looking at mine [00:18:00] doing the same thing. This judgment comes into play and we're judging the other person for not having our perspective when it's completely impossible for another human being on this planet to have the same perspective we do.

[00:18:15] Scott Maderer: Because they haven't had the same Even identical twins, and I have a degree in genetics and I'm actually have done I've read all the identical twin studies and even identical twins they've done studies where they were raised in different environments and they've looked at them when they're raised in the same environments.

[00:18:32] And there's a great deal of similarity in how they do and act and say and expressions they use and weird stuff like their favorite colors are the same sometimes and these sorts of things. And yet at the same time. Turns out there's still two different people and they have different reactions to things and they have different attitudes about things and even raised in identical environments and as, as identical as they could get.

[00:18:57] It's still going to be differences in how they act [00:19:00] out in the real world and how their emotional reactions to things are. I would agree with that a hundred percent. I think that's hard sometimes to see too especially if. If you've had the blessing of living a life where you haven't had certain experiences or been around had friends or family or other folks, even in your life or in your circle that have had certain experiences.

[00:19:30] And then you meet someone who's. had those experiences, it's hard to recognize them because they're so foreign to your worldview because you've never seen it. It's never even entered the periphery of your life, whatever it is. And that could be positive things that could be negative things.

[00:19:46] I'm deliberately trying to not use a value world word like negative or positive because it's just really hard to even entertain it. What are What can help us have empathy in [00:20:00] those situations where there really is that culture clash or that worldview clash of this worldview is really far from anything I was raised around or have seen or experienced?

[00:20:12] This

[00:20:14] Kat Newport: is where I would recommend. Suspending the would, shoulds, and coulds. You should react this way. They should behave this way. It's about suspending that judgment, that preemptive piece that says, This situation is happening. Everybody else I've met has acted like this. Therefore, Scott, you should act like this.

[00:20:40] If you can suspend the should and then look at the reaction or the action or the input for precisely what it is and compare that to the environment or the event, the game changes a little bit. Conflict arises particularly when judgment is in play. If we can, again, just suspend that woulda, shoulda, coulda, [00:21:00] it makes it a little bit easier to respond with that curiosity and gain that perspective and empathy.

[00:21:07] Scott Maderer: I work with a lot of coaches and the two words that you've used several times that I use all the time when I'm talking to coaches is number one is adopt an attitude of curiosity, which is the, you'd never know enough. You always want to ask more questions. You probably haven't gotten to the.

[00:21:27] to the root of whatever's going on by just asking one question. There, there's always more layers. And I don't think we ever really get a hundred percent to the root, but you can get closer by getting more curious. You can understand more by getting more curious. And then the other is the judgment free zone, which is, can be really hard to do and I've had some clients that have very different worldviews than mine, and to be able to come into it and go.

[00:21:55] Okay, but this is their worldview. It's not good or bad. It's not right or wrong. [00:22:00] It just is. And now I can be curious about it as opposed to why do you believe that? It's like, where did that come from? And I think a lot of times we have those questions and it's not meant necessarily, the intent behind it is not mean or demeaning or aggressive, but it sure could feel like that whenever we have those situations.

[00:22:27] What are some ways that You know, and again, I know we're going down this long list of tips, but judgment free zone is hard. What, how can we hold that when in reality we all get a little judgy sometimes.

[00:22:47] Kat Newport: Totally true. Totally true. I have a little hamster that runs on a wheel. I call him Judgey. We all have it. And it's very hard to circumvent the hamster when we get into that point. [00:23:00] So a couple of things start listening more. The universe gave you two ears and one mouth. Listen twice as much as you speak, and when you're listening, make sure you're looking for points where you resonate.

[00:23:17] I might not agree completely with you, but that one piece right there, I love that, and now can you explain the rest to me? Because I'm not getting it. There's that piece there. There's also the avoidance of the question, why? Whenever you ask anybody why did you get that dog? Why do you do that?

[00:23:40] It does come across in a very, I hate to use the word aggressive, but it comes across in a very dominant kind of way, a very judgmental kind of way, which immediately puts the other person on the back foot going what do you mean by that? So instead of asking why do you think that way? Can you explain that a little bit [00:24:00] more to me?

[00:24:01] So that would be two. The third one would be look at it from a humble perspective. Not knowing something isn't a value judgment on your intelligence. Not knowing something is an opportunity to expand your knowledge. which can feed into that curiosity. So act in a humble way. I'm not quite getting it. Can you explain it to me?

[00:24:27] Very hard for some of us to say it might take some practice.

[00:24:31] Scott Maderer: That is one of those one of my favorite expressions as a coach is tell me more. And the other one that I use a lot of times is interesting. So when they say something that in my head, I'm going, wait, what and instead of saying, Wait, what?

[00:24:48] Or why did you do that? I can say, Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more. And learning to say that instead of what [00:25:00] were you thinking or why did you make that decision or which again made the intent may be the same. like you said, one of those, the way we say it almost automatically creates a defensive posture where the other is more sincere, curious, or it feels more like sincere curiosity.

[00:25:20] And it really is sincere curiosity. I'm not faking it, but though I will say that I've gotten a lot better at that with practice because it is not something that comes naturally. There, there is that natural tendency to go, wait, what were you thinking? Why did you do that? That kind of thing.

[00:25:37] As we occasionally hear from other people, occasionally, maybe that was stupid. Why'd you do that?

[00:25:45] It was just a real helpful so I have one question that I like to ask folks too and just because I'm interested in the journeys that we've all had, when you think about your faith journey, and then the [00:26:00] work you do around conflict and resolution and those sorts of things everyone's journey is unique, out of that exact idea of curiosity.

[00:26:08] And I like highlighting the fact that we all have different journeys and come from different places. How has your faith journey and your life journey and the work that you do intersected and fed fed back between each other? I

[00:26:22] Kat Newport: always had the curiosity of why people do what they do, and in the younger years, it was about figuring out those relationships like it is with all of us and that kind of thing.

[00:26:34] And I didn't come from a particularly faithful background, and I ended up graduating university at the age of 40 with a degree in theology. That's a left hook. I went into theology because I needed to know, Or wanted to explain, or at least get a little deeper into the why. Why do we do what we do?

[00:26:57] Why are we organized like this? [00:27:00] Why do we think like this? And looking at the messages that are coming through time, which definitely led into how do we deal with conflict? How does your perspective and my perspective mesh together or not mesh together? And how do we live in that paradox?

[00:27:17] together even if we don't have the same ideals. So it was really interesting just to see all the pieces start to swirl together, not just from the corporate environment, not just from a personal relationship environment, but also from that theological faith based environment.

[00:27:33] Scott Maderer: Yeah, that's one of the honestly, truly, if you want to study conflict, studying religion is not a problem.

[00:27:39] bad place to start. There's been a little bit of conflict in religion over the years.

[00:27:46] Kat Newport: Millennium. Yes. Yeah.

[00:27:48] Scott Maderer: It's as I have said to people before, and I this is a joke, but it's not, is there, I think there's been more people killed in the name of God than just about anything on the planet.

[00:27:59] [00:28:00] And because it is an emotional, it can be for many people an emotional passionate area of their life. And so I think it does set itself up for being a source of conflict in our life because it feels like a personal attack. It feels like an attack on our identity. If someone, if we have a particular faith view or lack of one, either one, and somebody has a different one, it does feel a little bit like a conflict it sets itself up to be a rife for conflict, I think.

[00:28:31] And I've seen that play out in the workplace as well.

[00:28:34] Kat Newport: Very much so very much. So there's a reason why we're all taught there are some things you don't discuss in polite company and that's politics and religion. Oh, just veer away from that during networking.

[00:28:46] Scott Maderer: And as a financial coach, I would add money, even though I think that one's another 1 that had no, we should be able to talk about that. It just, but for whatever reason, we don't seem to be able to do that one without conflict either.

[00:28:59] Kat Newport: It's [00:29:00] true. It is true. I work in estates and dealing with conflict and estate planning and management. So

[00:29:04] Scott Maderer: yeah,

[00:29:05] Kat Newport: money, family, and emotional turmoil. What could go wrong?

[00:29:08] Scott Maderer: Where there's a, where there's a will, there's a fight. It's as opposed to the, where there's a will, there's a way. Yeah, by the way, for anyone that hasn't done any sort of estate planning or setting up a will or any of that sort of stuff you need to do that and by the way, the whole thing where you see the lawyer reading it, it's a surprise to everyone in the family in a movie.

[00:29:31] Yeah. Don't do that. Okay. That is a rife for setting up the family for conflict. And Having lived through that a number of different ways over the years, that is not not a healthy situation. That brings us back to the beginning thing of, I think a lot of the times the communication that we do before a conflict is what helps prevent the conflict in the first place.

[00:29:57] Kat Newport: Talk about the will before it becomes in earnest. [00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Scott Maderer: Like I'll give you my sister will laugh when she hears this episode my, Perina can opener. We all know that she, that's she gets that from my mother when my mother passes. We've already had that fight. She won. She gets it.

[00:30:18] So that's how that works.

[00:30:19] Kat Newport: Oh, conflict over and you still seem to be on good terms. So we're great. It's great.

[00:30:25] Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah, I forgive, I've forgiven her for it at this point. It's there's literally, it's sorry for anyone that's wondering, there's, it's a can opener that was given away. as a giveaway with Perina, like dog chow or horse chow or something.

[00:30:42] Probably my mother and father got it in probably 64, 1964, 1965. It's still in a drawer in my mother's house and my sister has always wanted it. So it's okay, you get that. I don't care. It's all right. I love you sis. You can have that. So I've got a few questions that I like [00:31:00] to ask all of my guests, but before I, I go there, is there anything else about the.

[00:31:05] The book smart conflict or the work that you do around conflict and conflict resolution that you think it's really important for the listener to hear

[00:31:14] Kat Newport: when looking at conflict. I want to leave with 22 thoughts to ponder on. And if you're a journal or take out a pen and start journaling conflict equals creativity, reframe it.

[00:31:30] And see what comes up for you, instead of looking as conflict as a bad thing, look at it as an opportunity for innovation and creativity. I definitely want to leave with that. And the 2nd one, conflict starts with self reflection and effective conflict resolution starts with self reflection. When you're in conflict, I'd be willing to put out there that at least 90 percent of the conflict is your own personal baggage, where [00:32:00] 10 percent of it is the event at hand.

[00:32:02] So beware of the predictions, make sure you're unpacking your conflict history to see how it's playing out in the moment.

[00:32:12] Scott Maderer: Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a big believer in defining words and my brand is Inspired Stewardship and I use that framework of stewardship in a lot of the work that I do, but that's one of those words that.

[00:32:24] A lot of people use it. It means different things to different people. So when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you?

[00:32:34] Kat Newport: There, I like to think of it almost as the tugboat that brings the big boats into harbor. It's about latching on at a certain point in the voyage. to get us a little bit closer to the goal and then to detach and move off.

[00:32:48] It's not about being there for the whole time. It's not about taking control. It's about being there in the moment when someone else needs you to get them a little bit closer to the goals that they want. So for me, that's [00:33:00] stewardship. It's a mental picture of a little tugboat.

[00:33:03] Scott Maderer: I like that.

[00:33:04] I like that. That's a new one. I have not heard that one before and I like that image. So I, yeah. You're not the owner, you're not the boat you're the pilot ship or the tugboat beside it. I like that. So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine and with this machine, I could pluck you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years.

[00:33:31] And through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and you were able to see your entire life, see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left behind. What impact do you hope you've left on the world?

[00:33:45] Kat Newport: The impact I want to leave behind is an understanding that relationships are tough, but they're worth the investment.

[00:33:56] That we are naturally human beings [00:34:00] being that social creature. I want to make it just a little bit easier to look at the tough points and go, no, this is an investment. And I want to be able to see that. 250 years down the line. See where that lands us.

[00:34:13] Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next as you continue on your journey?

[00:34:18] Kat Newport: So the book has finally been released, which is great and never one to rest on my laurels. The next book is in play at this point, where we're getting those ideas together. So we move from conflict into resilience. looking also at doing some more talks and more facilitated conflict management training based on the SMART model.

[00:34:42] So all of these things are definitely in play for me. So yeah, lots of exciting things in the world of conflict. That sounds silly, but lots of exciting things.

[00:34:55] Scott Maderer: No, that doesn't sound silly at all. I think it's a, an area that [00:35:00] And I love the idea of going to resilience as your next thought, because I think those two things are very connected because I think more resilient people are more able to both handle conflict in a smart and healthy way, A, and B, if it isn't handled in a smart and healthy way, they are more able to recover from it.

[00:35:24] So I see, I can see that connection. But yeah the. I think conflict is an area that like money and religion and politics and some of the, some of those other topics that we don't talk about. We all just pretend if we ignore it, it won't happen instead of dealing with it.

[00:35:46] Kat Newport: Hey.

[00:35:48] Scott Maderer: Hate to break it to the audience.

[00:35:50] Yeah, if you ignore it, it will still happen. In fact, it will happen worse. Yeah, conflict buried is usually just waiting for the [00:36:00] explosion to happen, isn't it?

[00:36:02] Kat Newport: Precisely. Precisely. Don't avoid it. It just gets worse.

[00:36:06] Scott Maderer: And you can find out more about Kat and her book over at smartconflictbook. com. And of course, I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well.

[00:36:16] Kat, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener? I

[00:36:19] Kat Newport: have a great newsletter that goes out on LinkedIn. So feel free to give me a follow and a hookup. And I also share my Lunch and Learns, which are 30 minute segments on conflict and some conflict shorts on my YouTube channel. So that's all under my name, Kat Newport.

[00:36:34] So do the Google and I. I'm definitely there.

[00:36:38] Scott Maderer: Awesome. Of course, I'll put links to those two over the show notes as well for anyone that wants to find them. And follow, give Kat a follow on LinkedIn and check her out on YouTube as well. Thanks so much for being here today.

[00:36:51] Kat Newport: Thank you so much for having me, Scott.[00:37:00]

[00:37:01] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, to us. but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.

[00:37:25] com slash iTunes rate. All one word. iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the [00:38:00] world.