Episode 1406: Interview with Wilk Wilkinson about the Message of Derate the Hate

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1, 406 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:07] Wilk Wilkinson: I'm Wilk Wilkinson. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to interact with others while seeing the humanity in them is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this.

[00:00:28] The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer.

[00:00:41] When we look at the world around us, Scott, I want everybody to think about, you know, are we going to make it through this thing together? I want, I want everybody to think about their legacy. Are we going to make it through this thing together? Cause we've only got so much time together on this planet. Do we make it through this world together by staying [00:01:00] divided or trying to come together?

[00:01:02] Welcome and for joining

[00:01:03] Scott Maderer: us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:36] In today's podcast episode, I interview Wilk Wilkinson. I asked Wilk about why he tries to help people shift towards seeing the humanity in all people, despite our differences. I also asked Wilk to share how his faith affects this view for him. And Wilk also shares why polarization is so prominent in today's society.

[00:01:56] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired [00:02:00] Living, assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it and sign up for getting more information over@inspiredstewardship.com. Inspired Living. That's inspired stewardship.com.

[00:02:17] Inspired Living. Wil Wilkinson is a husband, a father, a Christian conservative, and the host of the D Rate, the Hate podcast. He's been working from the age of 10 years old so that he might have things his parents could not. He moved a lot growing up and was in far more schools through his K 12 years than he really needed to be.

[00:02:43] He was bullied incessantly through much of grade school and learned a lot from that experience, both good and bad. He's been able to overcome a lot of anger and animosity over the years and tries to share his experiences in a way that helps others do the same. His [00:03:00] failures have been his most successful teachers.

[00:03:02] He's grown to become successful in his career, his marriage, and parenting in ways that he never would have imagined he could do as a younger person. Through his podcast, Derate the Hate, he attempts to share with others the tips and tools he's used, trajectory of his life. Topics regularly include personal accountability, gratitude, how to be civil, mindset, and many more.

[00:03:26] He recognizes that being civil does not require that we force our opinions on others, demand like mindedness, or hate those with whom we disagree, but simply to see the humanity in all people, despite our differences, whatever those differences may be. Welcome

[00:03:43] Wilk Wilkinson: to the show, Wilk! Thank you for having me, Scott.

[00:03:46] I appreciate it. Absolutely. It's great to talk

[00:03:49] Scott Maderer: to you. So I just shared your intro and honestly, I'll call it out. Unlike some of the intros that I share, you actually put in some things and talk about some things [00:04:00] that aren't necessarily the, all the quote, good shiny stuff. I always laugh and tell people intros are like our Instagram pictures.

[00:04:07] They always show the good stuff and never the bad stuff. No one takes an Instagram picture with a dirty laundry in the background. We always frame it. Perfect. But you talked a little bit about growing up and having bullying and anger and these sorts of things as well. Can you unpack that a little bit more?

[00:04:23] What about your journey make you wanting to put out this message? about derate the hate, about not looking for that humanity in other people, as opposed to the differences.

[00:04:38] Wilk Wilkinson: I think there's a lot to that, Scott. And it's interesting for me because I, I had as somebody who grew up in, in many respects, quite poor, not a lot of stuff that, that other people had just different circumstances that I grew up with, I ended up with a lot of anger, a lot of [00:05:00] animosity and spending a lot of time as a young adult just Just mad I would say that there was a lot of envy there, right?

[00:05:10] I would see the things that other people had and see the things that other people were doing and just wishing, Oh why couldn't my life have been different? Why couldn't I have why couldn't I have those things or why couldn't I be doing that? And yada, right? And then that came along with a lot of the anger and animosity I had from other things in my past.

[00:05:31] And one of the things that I kept, one of the things that I kept coming back to Scott. all the time was personal accountability and gratitude. Being grateful for the things that I have instead of focusing on the things that I don't. And then the fact that personal accountability plays so much into so many of our lives that if we stop and just take that breather, [00:06:00] sit back and look and say, Hey, a lot of the reasons that I'm in the position that I'm in today.

[00:06:07] Is because of things that I have done or things that I chose not to do. The choices that I have made have largely brought me to the place where I am today. And when I started putting all those things together and realizing that, you know what, it's not all those things that I can't control that are going to affect the outcome of my life and really make me feel like I'm in control.

[00:06:38] If I focus on those things that are outside of my control, I'm going to constantly feel bad. I'm going to constantly feel like I can't win, but when I start to focus on those things of which I do have control over, and then start to control those things well, And then also be grateful for the things that I have instead of focusing on the things that I don't life [00:07:00] becomes infinitely better.

[00:07:02] So that's really what it comes down to is how do we start to compartmentalize those things? Focus on what we can control, live a life of gratitude, and life is going to be so much better for those and everybody around, or for each of us as an individual and those people around you. About how

[00:07:23] Scott Maderer: old were you when you started Coming to that realization for lack of a better word.

[00:07:29] Wilk Wilkinson: Oh man, I was a late bloomer in that camp. I

[00:07:33] Scott Maderer: don't know. Probably not as late as some people haven't done it yet. Yeah I could

[00:07:39] Wilk Wilkinson: Maybe I've got to say I was in my 30s, Scott. It I had inklings of it here and there and then I would fall off that train And go back into the pity party or just being mad all the time kind of thing.

[00:07:57] But yeah, I would say I was [00:08:00] definitely into my thirties before before I really started to grasp that in a big way.

[00:08:06] Scott Maderer: And one of the things too, and I think I'm hearing this in your message, but I want to make sure that I'm not reading something into it. That's just my my viewpoint is.

[00:08:17] You're not saying that there's not external circumstances that may really stink. You're just saying, if you can't do anything about that thing, rather than focusing on that thing that you have no power over anyway, focus on the choices you can make, and you can do, and bring it back to yourself, because that's what you can actually take action on and do something about.

[00:08:38] Wilk Wilkinson: No, that's exactly right. It's a rock solid guarantee that there's gonna be things in everybody's life. I don't care who you are. Or you can look at anybody out there and they're going to have things within their lives that, that are terrible. There's no doubt about it.

[00:08:53] We all do. But it's where you choose to focus your energy, where you [00:09:00] choose to focus your thoughts and what you can do. If you constantly focus on the things that are outside of your control, which quite often the things that are terrible within our lives are outside of our control.

[00:09:12] It doesn't mean we have to ignore them. It doesn't we can't just ignore everything bad that is happening in our lives. What we have to do is choose to focus on those high value targets in our life. What can make the biggest difference within our life? What can we control? What can't we control?

[00:09:35] And how do we best react to. those things, because it's not that we have control over all these things, but we absolutely have the ability to react to them in a positive way. So it's really a matter of how we react as opposed to what we focus on and how we deal with those things that are outside of our control.

[00:09:56] Scott Maderer: Yeah, so it's not so much, yes, the bad thing happened. [00:10:00] Yes, you couldn't have stopped it. However, how you react to the bad thing. That you've actually got input into and can learn skills and all of that. It reminds me of everyone knows about PTSD, right? Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But very few people talk about the opposite of that, which actually exists and they've studied it.

[00:10:20] post traumatic growth. Some people go through real traumatic situations and come out the other side and grow because of it. Some people come out of the traumatic situations on the other side and have struggles and strain and problems. And some of the root reasons is exactly what you're talking about.

[00:10:37] The people that have the growth. It's not so much that the trauma wasn't there, the trauma was there it was because of how they ended up reacting to the trauma and the things that they took control of that led to the growth.

[00:10:52] Wilk Wilkinson: No, that's absolutely right. And I call that, in a lot of ways, I call that adversity to awesomeness, right?

[00:10:57] We have these situations that, that [00:11:00] happen and It's not everybody's wired the same Scott and you and I can both agree on that right and people have Terrible things that happen in their lives I think about so many people that I've had on my podcast and you know in these adversity to awesomeness stories one it wanted I think that comes to mind right away is Barbara Allen who whose husband was killed by a fellow soldier in, in Iraq.

[00:11:29] And I believe it was in Iraq, Afghanistan but regardless she's got four young children at home. Her husband is murdered by a fellow soldier in in Iraq. And now she's a gold star widow at home and trying to cope with the fact that the she no longer has her husband, but she's come out of that and done just incredible things.

[00:11:55] Not only in, in raising her children and in her own life but [00:12:00] bringing an incredible message to others on how to get through that, or my friend Chris Singleton, who whose mother was killed in the Mother Emanuel Church shooting by by a white supremacist trying to start a race war.

[00:12:13] He, he's turned that around into just an unbelievable young man who is now devoted his life to going around speaking on behalf of victims and and just an inspiration to all people adversity to awesomeness. There's so much in this world that's going to be outside of our control.

[00:12:35] Things that we can't do anything about. It doesn't mean that there aren't going to be things in our lives that just absolutely suck, but how we react to them and what we can bring. So when you talk about post traumatic growth, post traumatic growth, adversity to awesomeness, how can we take this situation that we've been placed in for whatever reason?

[00:12:59] [00:13:00] And learn from it and better come out better on the other side not ignoring the fact that did happen, but actually growing from it and taking that message to others and saying, how can we come out better?

[00:13:14] Scott Maderer: And interestingly, the people that actually tried to ignore that it happened.

[00:13:17] usually end up with the post traumatic stress disorder. It's burying it, pushing it down in the inside. I don't know about you, but a lot of my anger that I had as a a young man came from burying things that We're going on in my life that were traumatic and trying to ignore them cause that's what we're taught is especially as guys stiff up our lips, suck it up. Just right. Yeah.

[00:13:44] Wilk Wilkinson: Yep. Yep. No that's exactly right. That's a fantastic point, Scott. Cause I think too many people yeah. They try to suppress what's happened. They try to bottle it in instead of working through it.

[00:13:55] And really, I don't care how tough you are at some [00:14:00] point, you have to confront whatever it is that. Whether it be hurt you like I I talk about being bullied as a child and the different things that, that came along with that and everything else all that stuff has to be confronted at some point, because if you just keep it bottled up, if you keep it in and don't allow yourself to truly work through that it's going to continue to cause problems in your life from now and through all time.

[00:14:34] Scott Maderer: My, my podcast too, we like to talk about people's faith journeys and the fact that a lot of folks have different journeys to what. where they're at today when it comes to their faith background. How, let's talk a little bit about your faith journey and how that has intersected and affected this journey that you've been on towards the putting out the message that you put out.

[00:14:58] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah when [00:15:00] I talk about my faith journey and everything gratitude is a huge thing. Something that I talk about a lot. And gratitude, what am I grateful for, and how can other people expect you to be grateful for anything if you're not grateful for the things that you have?

[00:15:16] Obviously in my world as a Christian most of my gratitude when I think about gratitude, who am I grateful to? It was God that brought these things to me. It's and I think about the ebbs and flows, the ups and downs that I've had in my faith journey, in my belief over the course of my life, Scott and I can remember times when I was so devoted that I was trying to go to church all the time.

[00:15:47] I'm not the kind of person who goes to church all the time. In fact, they go very seldom, probably only a couple times a year at this point in my life. Other times there, there are times when I was going every. every week, but I'm just, that's [00:16:00] not what I, that's not what I ascribe my faith to.

[00:16:02] My, my faith is truly my relationship, my personal relationship with with with God and Jesus Christ and whatever. But then there's been other times in my life, Scott, where I've been so mad, so angry so just had so much hate for the whole world and the fact that I was in it, that I'm like, if this is really all there is, just take me out now.

[00:16:25] I don't want to be here anymore so I've had the ups and downs. I've fought that battle, that internal battle, but going back to what we were saying before you've got to figure out what got me here. How, why am I here? And am I really blaming the right people? entity, right?

[00:16:44] Blaming God for my troubles is not where I needed to be because the fact is a lot of the, a lot of the problems that I was having in life were as a result of me. So right back to my personal accountability. It always [00:17:00] goes full circle be grateful for the things that I have.

[00:17:03] Don't focus on the things that I don't understand, that it's my own personal accountability that's going to get me where I need to be and just be grateful to God for all the great things that are in my life. Gratitude is one of those things that builds upon itself. So is my faith in God, right? The more I believed in God the more I put my faith in God, that the right things.

[00:17:25] Are going to happen in life. The more that the more I start to see all the beauty that's around me in this world and it's it really comes down to a matter of focus. And, I hope all that made sense. I'm not really trying to say that. No it

[00:17:46] Scott Maderer: does. It's and again I deliberately ask people about faith journey as opposed to quote religion.

[00:17:53] Because at least for

[00:17:55] Wilk Wilkinson: me church.

[00:17:59] Scott Maderer: [00:18:00] the Bible even it's not that those aren't the things that we should put on the highest pedestal. God is the thing that we should put on the highest pedestal, those are tools and relationships and they, not that they're bad they can help you, but They're not the be all end all.

[00:18:18] It's, I'm more curious about how did people arrive at the relationship that they're at today with the realization that it's a journey and your relationship's probably going to be different in 10 years because you'll be a different person.

[00:18:34] Wilk Wilkinson: Yeah. No, it is. It is a journey. And like I said, it's for me, it's a personal relationship.

[00:18:39] That personal relationship stemmed in, in gratitude and the beauty and all things that are around me. And I just think that it is something that, that each individual needs to figure out. It's one of those things where [00:19:00] How do you want to feel? And how are you going to get there?

[00:19:04] In, in my mind God and gratitude go hand in hand and gratitude in my mind is the Genesis of happiness. Do you want to be a happy person? What are you going to do today? What conscious decisions are you going to take today to be happy?

[00:19:27] Are you going to yeah. Are you going to focus on what this world hasn't given you, or are you going to be grateful for what this world has given you who are you going to be grateful to, why what does that mean to you, what is your relationship with this and yeah, it's a journey and it really is a matter of who we are today, who we want to be in the future, what kind of legacy do we want to have when we're gone.

[00:19:54] Scott Maderer: Let's talk a little bit more about the podcast. You mentioned it earlier and I did as well, the Derate [00:20:00] the Hate, which I love the title. How did you arrive at first off, how did you arrive at that title? But then secondly where did the idea for having people on to talk about these issues, where did the concept

[00:20:12] Wilk Wilkinson: come from?

[00:20:14] So derate the hate is so there's a couple things that go along with that title, Scott, and one of them is if you just look at the word derate, it means to turn down, right? It's it's one of these things where There, there's far too much hate in this world, whether it be internally with ourselves or with the world around us, hate, animosity, anger, those things all come together, right?

[00:20:41] They all go in, in one package often. And I saw the world around us just getting more hateful. So I wanted to turn that down. So the other part of that is I've been in the trucking industry for 25 years. And one of the things that will happen [00:21:00] with a truck, a semi truck in particular, is when something is going wrong with the engine in a truck, that truck will de rate in the ECM in that truck will turn down that engine's ability to continue to operate on that level so that it does not destroy itself.

[00:21:24] While every truck driver knows there's nothing we want to deal with less than a truck that's derated, it's a very important part of What we do in the sense that, okay, we do not want this truck to destroy itself. So we have to de rate that engine. We have to turn it down. So when I thought about the words and it just sounded cool, de rate the hate and it just kinda, it was a piece of me because trucking industry has been something I've been doing for the majority of my adult life.

[00:21:56] And then seeing the world around me getting more hateful and there's just so [00:22:00] much anger and stuff. I'm like, let's turn it down. Let's de rate the hate. And that's where the de rate the hate title came from. How long have you been doing it? Since since early in 2020. I think it was very early on in 2020.

[00:22:18] I put out my first episode, so a little but by the time this by the time this episode airs, Scott is going to be just about four years. So this in the podcast, what's the message of it, or the worldview of it, or somebody that's hearing it looking for it what's the promise that you're making them that this is what they'll hear on the show.

[00:22:45] So on the show, you're going to hear any number of things. We talk, I do a lot of my work these days, Scott, in the depolarization space. The bridging divides trying to, there's so many tears in the fabric of our nation [00:23:00] right now. And in the world in general there's so much ugliness going on among, amongst people of differing mindsets, differing opinions.

[00:23:07] So a lot of what I try to do these days is bring together people of differing mindsets. I'll have people on from any number of spaces on the political spectrum on the podcast, and it doesn't always have to be about politics, so don't get me wrong there but I'll have a conversation with anybody about just about anything as long as it's somebody who's out there trying to better the world in which we live, right?

[00:23:36] I don't think I, I don't think bettering the world is exclusive to any one group of people, any one mindset, anyone, anything, right? There's so much in this world that people can do to better the world in which we live, but it all starts with our own reflection on our own attitude.

[00:23:58] Bettering the world one [00:24:00] attitude at a time is what we try to do. How do we do that? Gratitude, personal accountability, how. What have you done today to make your life a better life? Because if you're making your life a better life, you're going to make the world a better place because bad moods are, bad moods and smiles and bad moods are contagious.

[00:24:19] So if we go out there, we present a positive attitude to the world in which we live, that's going to come back to us and it's going to spread, likewise conversely to that, if you're going out there and you're in a bad mood all the time and you're constantly frowning and whatever it's going to come back to you.

[00:24:39] So what kind of choice you're going to make today? You're going to make the choice to be a happy person and smile or are you going to, you're going to try and ruin somebody's day by, by spreading the bad mood that you woke up with. So let's talk a little bit. Practically from all of the work that you've been doing I think we've all had those moments, [00:25:00] whether it's a family holiday family reunion, or just around the water cooler at work, or I guess they still have water coolers at work.

[00:25:07] Scott Maderer: I don't know. I work from home but I have a sink that's what I have, but what that, that break room at work that I know that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the break room at work, but those interactions with other people that maybe they're, we just deeply disagree with them on a fundamental level.

[00:25:28] It may be about faith. It may be about politics. It may be about, I don't know, what's the best breed of dog. It doesn't matter. Sometimes it seems like when you have those interactions with folks like that, that are really. And typical to your belief, what are some of the tools or suggestions or things that you've learned over the years that can help us deal with that?

[00:25:50] Wilk Wilkinson: First thing people I think people too often use what they disagree on as their leading off point in the [00:26:00] conversation so

[00:26:02] Scott Maderer: that right there. I know you don't agree with this, so let's talk about that.

[00:26:06] Wilk Wilkinson: Let's just start there. A lot of times I think it makes a lot more sense to try and find.

[00:26:12] What we do agree on first, right? Try to break the ice with something that, that we most likely will agree upon, but then show genuine interest in, in, in what that person what that person or how that person, not what, how that person came to believe what they believe try to start off by just being passionately personal.

[00:26:40] In your conversation in showing that person, I have a genuine interest in not what you believe, but how you came to a position to believe what you believe how you got there, because. Once that person [00:27:00] knows that you, and this goes both ways, once that person knows that you don't care why or how they got to believe what they believe, they're probably not going to be listening to what you have to say anyway, right?

[00:27:15] If they know that your only intention in having that conversation is to attack their position, their ears are probably going to slam shut as well. So we have to show genuine interest. We have to try and figure out why and how that person. believes. So ask them, how did we get here? How did you get to the position?

[00:27:40] Not why, because why is often a word that seems combative, right? Why do you think that? No. How is it that you, how is it that you believe this? Or how is it that you come to this position on this particular particular topic? Another thing is People [00:28:00] today, especially in the day and age that we live in now, Scott where everything is like instantaneous and we're bombarded with so much information and people try to simplify complex issues into these really non complex conversations.

[00:28:20] And so it's, a lot of times it's is what you're saying really that simple? Or do you think it could be far more complex than both of us are

[00:28:32] thinking, right? Some of these issues are, So complex, but people are so used to trying to break it down into a 160 or 320 characters, whatever it is, tweet or blurb on a, on social media, that it really does complete injustice to the whole conversation in itself.

[00:28:56] When in actuality, it's probably far more complex [00:29:00] than either party understands, but now. We have just said our little piece to try and make that person mad. The other thing is why instantly go for the emotional reaction? Try to remove our emotions from from it and say, Okay let's start from a platform of logic rather than emotions.

[00:29:23] Because once people allow their emotions to get in there and dictate. How they're feeling that's where things go wonky go sideways and people people's brains go off their emotions go up and far far less is going to be accomplished that way. So I think that's where I would go is try to find the common ground, find the humanity in the person that you're speaking with, find out how they came to believe what they're believing.

[00:29:54] And then realize it's probably more complex and we need to [00:30:00] try and keep our emotions out of it and talk through things with logic.

[00:30:04] Scott Maderer: One thing I'll add to the, it's probably that complex thing is I think too, a lot of times we'll hear that somebody believes this I just pick something because they're a big supporter of, small government.

[00:30:22] I literally picked an issue out of the hat, but from that one thing that we learn about them, we ascribe to them, Oh that must mean that they're a diehard Trump supporter, they're this, they're that a whole set of beliefs that may or may not actually be what that person believes. But but because we learned one little nugget, we ascribe that now to a whole.

[00:30:45] Class of beliefs that go along with that, at least in

[00:30:48] Wilk Wilkinson: our mind. And I think people have been conditioned that way because for so long, Scott, people like to put people in boxes. And it's okay, so if [00:31:00] I can check this little thing off, it's on that label on that box, everything else that I put on that label on that box must be true about that person.

[00:31:08] When in all actuality, every individual is a much more complex entity than. A lot of people would have you believe these days, right? Because, like I said, they try to put you in this box, and they try to put this label on this box, and now everybody in that box is that is checks off all the things on that label, when in actuality, everybody is a very complex individual, and you cannot just.

[00:31:34] Immediately assume that everything about those people is going to be the same in all circumstances. It's not the case.

[00:31:46] Scott Maderer: Yeah. You hear that somebody is a Republican and therefore they must believe these 72 things or somebody is a Democrat. So no, they believe those 72 things. And it's maybe Might be the case, but maybe not.[00:32:00]

[00:32:02] So a lot of it, it sounds like it's just coming down to two and you led with it. It's actually just being sincerely curious about other people, not judgmental.

[00:32:14] Wilk Wilkinson: That's absolutely right. Absolutely right. Genuinely curious, passionately personal. How do we really get to know?

[00:32:23] this person that we're conversing with and be genuinely curious get to know how they come to believe what they believe without making these automatic assumptions of who that person is, what they believe just because of who they associate with, just because of what their skin color is, what part of the world they're from yada.

[00:32:47] There are so many things that we do ourselves a huge disservice in many cases, Scott, by making assumptions about people before actually knowing who that person is, and [00:33:00] by doing so, our own ignorance leads to a greater level of. It could be hate for that person. So ignorance is one of the leading factors or leading causes of hate because if we actually took the time to get to know the people that whether we agree or disagree on everything or nothing, there's still a humanity in that other human being that we need to recognize.

[00:33:28] And if we take the time to figure out how that person came to believe what they believe or came to a position that they have that's completely different than ours. Yeah. I think we'll often see that the world is a much, much better place than some would have you believe.

[00:33:45] Scott Maderer: So flipping that question a little bit obviously we've talked about the fact that there is a lot of polarization.

[00:33:52] There's a lot of hatred. I don't care which side of the issue you're on and what your belief set is. There's a lot of judgment of the [00:34:00] other side. whatever the other side is, and I put that in air quotes. Why do you, how do you think we got here? Why is this the position we're in today?

[00:34:12] Wilk Wilkinson: Because grievance sells.

[00:34:16] Us versus them sells. Keeping people angry sells. It, all of that stuff keeps people coming back for more. Far more than other things politicians get elected by keeping the us versus them mentality going. The media keeps people tuning in because the us versus them mentality and keeping people angry keeps people tuned in.

[00:34:43] Unfortunately those are the, that's just the reality of the world in which we live. If we bring everybody together it's, it's not nearly [00:35:00] as. Beneficial to those who want to stay in power because it's often the divide and conquer thing, unfortunately I hate to say it that way, but but it is, and time has proved that.

[00:35:15] You look at social media today. Some of the biggest accounts are not those that are trying to trying to bring people together and. And make the world a better place. It's those that are inciting anger and stuff and constantly either driving home this fog model, fear, outrage and grievance.

[00:35:35] That it's those that have the biggest following. So so it's it becomes a natural instinct for people who want for lack of a better way to say it, fame and fortune to use that fog model. That fear, outrage and grievance model than it is to for people [00:36:00] working in the depolarization space, right?

[00:36:04] That's how we got here in, in my opinion is, it's just, that is what sells and. At the end of the day, people are trying to make they're out for fame or fortune. They're out for fame, fortune, or power and the model that, at this point in human history, that is, has worked more consistently than all others.

[00:36:28] is fear, outrage, and grievance. How can we get people mad? How can we get people scared? How can we make people feel like a victim so that we can provide the solution that's going to take them to the next level? It's a, it's an ugly cycle, but it's true. And in

[00:36:45] Scott Maderer: some ways, it's almost, it's easier.

[00:36:48] And what I mean by that is, think of it, when you were describing how to actually, sincerely talk to somebody that you disagree with, You had a lot of [00:37:00] words to talk about that, but when you talk about how to get people riled up, it's three words yeah that's easy.

[00:37:10] That's a low hanging fruit, so to speak.

[00:37:13] Wilk Wilkinson: Yep. Yep. No, that's exactly right. That's why social media is, has been I think there's some very good things about social media, but But yeah, it, I think a net has been a net net negative in the respect for humanity in that yeah, you can get you can get people riled up a lot quicker in a shorter period of time with a short little tweet or blurb on on Facebook that then you can about making their making their lives better and helping them work through working towards that adversity to awesomeness thing that we talked about or post traumatic growth.

[00:37:55] It's a lot easier to make people mad real fast than it is to help [00:38:00] them work through and find the solutions that are going to make their lives better in a tweet. And I

[00:38:05] Scott Maderer: I posted something on my Facebook page a few months ago that was a quote. about basically how you can read into the Bible.

[00:38:18] If you have a particular view, you can go shopping in the Bible to find something to support that view. That's more or less what the quote is about. The person that did the quote is somebody who was very popular in Christian circles for a while and it got very controversial and was outcast from Christian circles.

[00:38:36] So the feedback I got was that's a great quote, but you shouldn't post it because it's from her. Oh, and I'm like, That's the point of the quote is you're literally saying that I'm going to dismiss a good message because it comes from somebody I don't like. And I'm like, I agree with everything the person said.

[00:38:57] That wasn't the point of me posting that. But I do agree with [00:39:00] this thing that they said, yeah.

[00:39:03] Wilk Wilkinson: What's first and what's more important, the message or the person who said it? Yeah. Yeah, that's no that's a very valid point right there. It was interesting

[00:39:12] Scott Maderer: to me that it was like, yeah.

[00:39:13] Really that's the feedback. That's the problem that you have with that message. That's interesting to me. It didn't surprise me, honestly. And I thought about it even before I posted it that I'm like, Oh, given where that person has ended up, I'm probably going to get some negative feedback.

[00:39:32] But I'm still going to post it because I agree with the message here. So let me post it. So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else about the podcast or the work that you've been doing that, that you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:39:49] Wilk Wilkinson: Polarization is one of those things. And as my friend, John Wood Jr. says, polarization is the one problem that ensures either or [00:40:00] All other problems won't be solved. So when we look at the world around us, Scott, I want everybody to think about are we going to make it through this thing together?

[00:40:12] I want everybody to think about their legacy. Are we going to make it through this thing together? Cause we've only got so much time together on this planet. Do we make it through this world together by staying divided? Or trying to come together and I don't mean in some big kumbaya moment where everybody's oh, yeah, we are the world we have to recognize our differences and understand that our differences are good, but they're not a reason to keep us separated.

[00:40:42] So we. I just encourage everybody when you're thinking about the things in this world that you and your neighbor don't agree on, or you and that person in the break room at work, like you talked about earlier maybe [00:41:00] vehemently disagree on. Disagreement does not have to equate to hate, right?

[00:41:04] We have to be able to look at each other, see the common humanity in each other, Understand that we don't have to walk lockstep in with each other on all things mindset in order to get along and coexist in a very real and meaningful way to, to leave a legacy of awesomeness for those that are coming behind us.

[00:41:29] Just I encourage everybody to check out organizations Braver Angels that I do a lot of work with and and things like that, because when it comes to our time together here. Let's spend that time. And yeah that's the big thing for me. That's the big message that I want people to think about when they think about.

[00:41:53] Scott Maderer: My brand is inspired stewardship. I run things through that [00:42:00] lens of stewardship. And yet I've discovered that's one of those words that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And so because of that, I just like to ask folks, when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word

[00:42:11] Wilk Wilkinson: mean to you?

[00:42:13] When I think of stewardship, I think of how do I want to, how do I want to represent the position that that I want the world to live in? Do I, am I going to be a good steward of the things that I've been given? In this life that's why I come back to gratitude a lot, right?

[00:42:40] How does how would anybody expect me to be grateful for something that I don't have if I'm not grateful for the things that I've got so gratitude is a lot of when I think of stewardship, I think quite often of gratitude, right? Being a good steward [00:43:00] of the things that I do have.

[00:43:03] We'll lead to better things and. And so stewardship for me is is a different word for a lot of the things that I talk about already. Gratitude and personal accountability. I am a good steward in my mind of what I've been given and what I want the world to see because I am grateful and I am, I do hold myself to a a higher standard because I do believe I am accountable for I for the life that I have, that's when I think of stewardship.

[00:43:45] So this is my favorite

[00:43:46] Scott Maderer: question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine and with this machine I could pluck you from where you are today and transport you into the future 150, maybe 250 years. [00:44:00] But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life and see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left behind.

[00:44:08] What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

[00:44:13] Wilk Wilkinson: That is a it's a phenomenal question and so again, I go back to the, what kind of legacy do we want to leave thing and I talked so much about making the world a better place and I don't want to be remembered for the times where I was angry or I yelled at somebody or stuff like that.

[00:44:40] Or I broke something, or whatever, because I did spend a lot of my life in that in that realm anger, animosity, breaking stuff, yelling things like that. I want to be remembered as the person. I want to look back, and I want people to look back years from now and say, Oh, yeah, there used to be this [00:45:00] thing called the Derate the Hate podcast, and there was this guy who spent So much of his time dedicated so much of his time to bring in people together.

[00:45:12] And because again we've got only so much time on this rock together, Scott. And those people who put all of their effort into dividing us and making people angry. That's not a legacy that I want ever to be associated with my name. I will never have the kind of following that some of those people have, but I tell you what.

[00:45:43] When the books are written later on in life or when they open up the books to see if I get to where I'm going, I know that putting my efforts into bringing people together as to drive, as opposed to [00:46:00] driving a wedge between them, I think it puts me in the right column, so I like that idea a lot better.

[00:46:09] Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next for you as we continue

[00:46:13] Wilk Wilkinson: into 2024? So 2024 I just, I'm gonna continue to do the D Rate the 8 podcast, continue to do my work with with the incredible organization Braver Angels and try to branch that out, scale that up to, to doing some public speaking.

[00:46:35] I would love to not only continue to spread this message via via podcasting, the podcasting channels that are out there but 2024 is going to be the year when I try to get out. I had a few speaking events in 2023. I'd like to try and scale that up and get some more done in 2024 bring this message out to people, do more [00:47:00] shaking hands, seeing people face to face showing people that there there is a very positive way to, To disagree agreeably, and and I think that is that is important thing.

[00:47:17] So more with the podcast probably going to try and do more video shorts, reels, things like that. But I would really like to get more into, to public speaking and. And and then of course, Braver Angels is the Braver Angels convention this year which I spoke at this last year was in Gettysburg in 2024 is going to be in right up there in Kenosha, Wisconsin, actually.

[00:47:48] So people can look at that on the radar. That's the one big thing that I know is going to be coming up this year and whatever that other than that. We'll we'll see what the see what the stars [00:48:00] align to. Absolutely.

[00:48:03] Scott Maderer: So you can find out more about Wilk over at his website. Do you rate the hate.

[00:48:08] com and I'll also put a link to that and to the braver angels group that he's been talking about. So you can find out more about his work over there or find out more about bringing him to you as a speaker. Cause there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:48:24] Wilk Wilkinson: Just Better the world. That that is really the big message that I want to send out is better in the world starts with each of us as individuals. We can't control what the world is going to do to us, but we can control how we react to it. Better in the world starts with better in you, better in your life.

[00:48:47] So what have you done today to better better the world?

[00:48:54] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a [00:49:00] subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspiredstewardship.

[00:49:18] com iTunes rate, all one word iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time. Your talent and your treasures develop your influence and impact the world.