July 17

Episode 1338: Interview with relationship Catalyst and sales coach Deb Brown Maher

Inspired Stewardship Podcast, Interview


Join us today for the Interview with Deb Brown Maher, author of Sell Like Jesus: 7 Characteristics of Christ for Ethical Sales..

This is the interview I had with speaker, coach, and author Deb Brown Maher.  

In today’s podcast episode I Interview Deb Brown Maher.  I ask Deb about her journey to writing Sell Like Jesus.  I also ask her to share why sales shouldn’t be the thing that it often is perceived as.  I also ask Deb about how we can shift our thinking about sales and become more ethical sales people.

Join in on the Chat below.

Episode 1338: Interview with relationship catalysts and sales coach Deb Brown Maher

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1,338 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:09] Deb Brown Maher: I'm Deb Brown Maher, I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world. By using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Recognizing that we are all in sales every day and learning how to do it well without compromising your values is a great reason to listen to this Inspired Stewardship podcast with my friend Scott

[00:00:46] Scott Maderer: Maderer.

[00:00:52] So

[00:00:53] Deb Brown Maher: From the outset, I'm, as a salesperson, if I'm trying to convince you of [00:01:00] something, I've got all the pressure. I'm violating your right to say no because the only answer I'm allowed to accept is yes.

[00:01:13] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling.

[00:01:28] In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:47] In today's podcast episode, I interviewed Deb Brown, Mary develop influence as Deb about a journey to writing cell like Jesus the world. I also ask her to share why sales shouldn't be the thing that is often perceived as, [00:02:00] and I asked them how we can shift our thinking and our actions about sales and become more ethical salespeople.

[00:02:08] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living. Assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it and sign up for getting more information over@inspiredstewardship.com. Inspired Living. That's inspired stewardship.com Inspired living.

[00:02:32] Deb Brown Mayor is a relationship catalyst who helps business owners and freelancers change their sales approach by shifting their perspective of sales from convincing a prospect to buy to being of service to them. Deb's combination of coaching, creative listening, and supportive guidance enables her clients to gain a completely new perspective on their sales process and conversations, which leads to an increase in sales and business growth success.

[00:02:58] In the past, Deb worked in the high [00:03:00] tech industry for startups and multinational corporations. She wrote Sell Like Jesus, seven Characteristics of Christ for ethical Sales. In 2008, she founded Deb Brown Sales and is honored to be a trusted consultant to many Amish business owners in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

[00:03:17] Welcome to the show, Deb.

[00:03:19] Deb Brown Maher: Hi, Scott. It's great to be here with

[00:03:22] Scott Maderer: you. Absolutely. So I shared a little bit in the intro, but can you unpack a little bit more and share a little bit more about your journey and why now you're you've written this book about sell, like Jesus, you've been working in sales a how did you get to here where this is what you're wanting to share with the world?

[00:03:44] Deb Brown Maher: Yeah, good question. I, when I was young, I loved selling stuff in the neighborhood. Nobody taught me how to do it. Nobody encouraged me to do it. I just went off and did it. [00:04:00] So I had a good experience as a young child just selling craft items. Then when I graduated from college with a degree, that really didn't equip me for.

[00:04:16] Practical jobs. I had a choice, customer service or sales, so I started in customer service, but very quickly moved into sales roles only to find that at that point. The high pressure sales techniques that have been so prevalent in our culture for as long as I can remember, really rubbed me the wrong way.

[00:04:47] And I had a hard time doing what my employers expect me to do from a sales script standpoint. As

[00:04:58] Scott Maderer: a kid, I loved sales. As [00:05:00] an adult,

[00:05:01] Deb Brown Maher: I can almost say I hated it. But at the same time, for whatever reason, God made me good at it. So I found myself in this argument with the Lord, why did you make me good at sales?

[00:05:20] I hate the high pressure. I don't wanna treat people the way I'm being told you're supposed to when you sell, and that's when. The Lord basically challenged me to apply my Christian values in the marketplace as I did sales. So it was a 20 year journey to figure that out, and I wrote the book to shorten everyone else's learning curve.

[00:05:58] Scott Maderer: So let me [00:06:00] kind of circle back to a couple of things you said. The high pressure sales techniques that we all know, I don't wanna assume that we all know 'em. You know what I have a feeling that everyone thought of something when you said that but let's define that a little bit.

[00:06:18] What were you being taught that felt so uncomfortable to you?

[00:06:24] Deb Brown Maher: High pressure sales is predicated on the salesperson convincing the buyer that they need what you are offering. So let's just take that word convincing. Can I convince you, Scott, of anything.

[00:06:51] Scott Maderer: Not really. Yeah, why not? You can give me information that I may convince myself with, but you can't really, you [00:07:00] can't change my mind.

[00:07:01] I have to change it.

[00:07:02] Deb Brown Maher: Exactly. So from the outset, I'm, as a salesperson, if I'm trying to convince you of something, I've got all the pressure. I'm violating your. To say no, because the only answer I'm allowed to accept is yes. That's pressure on both me and you and it doesn't mean sales aren't made that way because on unfortunately, they are even to this day.

[00:07:40] And why is that? Because people need things, because people. Might be pressed for getting a solution quickly, or they don't have a lot of options, so sales are made that way. But if you are in any kind of service [00:08:00] oriented business where you need to create good, lasting relationships with people that you do business with, that high pressure is really the wrong way to start a relationship.

[00:08:15] Scott Maderer: Because you're putting conflict into it from the very beginning because it's us against I, me against you, as opposed to let's do this together.

[00:08:23] Deb Brown Maher: Yeah. Good summary. Yep.

[00:08:25] Scott Maderer: I, the way I always put it to people too is how often have you gone into a store and you actually need some help finding something.

[00:08:35] Like you're looking for a particular item. You're looking for a particular good, and you really do need some help, cuz you don't know where it is in this particular store. You've never been in this store before. And a salesperson walks up to you and says, can I help you? And instinctively, what do we all answer?

[00:08:51] No, just looking it's wait, this is the person that you actually need help from. [00:09:00]

[00:09:00] Deb Brown Maher: But as soon as they do that, it triggers the defense mechanism that says, don't push me. Don't bug me. If I need you,

[00:09:09] Scott Maderer: I'll ask. I'm afraid you're going to sell me something that I don't want, so let me Exactly.

[00:09:14] I'll just wander around the store for an extra 45 minutes looking for the thing that I need. Yeah. But because we have that expectation, we've got those defenses up. You mentioned in this experience, this kind of fighting with God about it and being challenged. How did your faith and your faith journey.

[00:09:35] Both kind of intersect with what you're putting out there, but also how did it develop along the way?

[00:09:44] Deb Brown Maher: So in my thirties, I really started to get more serious about my faith. I had accepted the Lord as a teenager but for a number of years, tried to keep one foot in the world[00:10:00] straddle the fence.

[00:10:01] Can I say, And because of a series of mistakes I made and bad circumstances, consequences of those mistakes that I had to deal with, it got my attention that the same thing kept happening over and over again, and I was the common denominator. I've never had that experience. That's why I'm laughing.

[00:10:31] Scott Maderer: It's yeah. Every day, right?

[00:10:34] Deb Brown Maher: So I went to the Lord, I finally went, Ooh, I'm at the end of myself. What I'm doing isn't working. Lord, I need your help. And so that started me on a journey that I'm still on today because, I continue to need his help in different ways. And each time it's [00:11:00] different.

[00:11:00] It feels oh my gosh, can I really trust him? And is he really gonna come through for me? And so I started asking for help with my career. What a concept. Lord, help me be a better steward in the marketplace. I want to help people through the products and services that I sell. How can I be a blessing to them and at the same time hit my quota?

[00:11:33] Because one of the things that, that I find in the, excuse me in the Christian community, Is that we think we have to be nice, and that means sacrificing ourselves for someone else's benefit. And when you sell, if you are sacrificing your [00:12:00] profit margin for someone else's benefit, you're actually undermining your own success and ultimately your ability to serve anyone.

[00:12:12] Because if you don't make a profit, you can't stay in business. So there are some Christian teachings that have been misapplied in sales that we have to correct and that doesn't come naturally. So those were the things that I learned and that I started teaching other people how to do. So there's a certain amount of.

[00:12:40] Boundary setting, if I can use that phrase. It's having a structure to sell by and knowing where you can give a little and where you need to stand your ground, because if you don't stand your ground, you're not gonna be any good to [00:13:00] anybody. So there's some recrafting of mindset that has to.

[00:13:09] Come first before we can apply sales strategy or technique. So technique, if it isn't done from the right mode, the right mindset will blow up on you every time. That, that Some of what I'm hearing and I wanna say it back to you and make sure I'm understanding it is in other words, the motivation of the salesperson when they come into the relationship has to be right first. Yes. And then everything else can flow from that. And that doesn't mean that there aren't things that you. Can say no about or there aren't yeah, I can do this, [00:14:00] but I can't do that.

[00:14:01] Scott Maderer: Kind of things. Exactly. You can have all of the, it's not just being a weak person who says yes to everything. That's not what you're talking about, but you are talking about even there, the motivation to where you have to say no and where you have to say yes comes from the right place.

[00:14:17] It doesn't come from, I'm gonna get as much as I can from you mindset.

[00:14:23] Deb Brown Maher: Exactly. So the mindset is I need to look for a good fit for both of us. And because I know what I sell better than you do, because I deal with it all the time, it's incumbent on me to ask the right questions to help you discover whether I.

[00:14:52] What I have is going to be good for you or not, right? So I'm not trying to convince you [00:15:00] that what I'm bringing to the table is the best thing since like spread. And you'd be crazy if you didn't buy from me. Stupid. Stupid in parentheses, you don't say the word, but when you come with that, Method, that technique it insults people.

[00:15:19] With without meaning to. So instead, my mindset is it's gotta be a win for both of us. And my words are I, my goal here in this conversation is to help you get all the information you need to make the best decision possible for you. That's my starting point.

[00:15:49] Scott Maderer: And it's different from a lot of times that information deficit that you're talking about or imbalance where, you know, as a salesperson, I have information as the buyer.[00:16:00]

[00:16:00] You don't have as much information. Now, first off, some of that's changed just naturally as technology and the internet and other it used to in car sales and things, you didn't have a way of knowing how much this car was selling for in 17 other places. Now you can walk in and go, here's what your guy down the street is selling it, or so it's a little different.

[00:16:20] But even there, there's still an information imbalance cuz there's still, I have information. Because, like you said, I deal with this every day. I've talked to a thousand people. I have information that you don't have. But even there, that information balance is not about let me withhold this information so I can manipulate the situation.

[00:16:39] It's let me help discover what really do you need to know to make a good informed decision. And even if that informed decision is this isn't the right product for me, that's an okay thing in that

[00:16:51] Deb Brown Maher: situation. And even stating that at the beginning of the conversation, because one of [00:17:00] the strategies I teach is to set expectations.

[00:17:04] For the sales conversation. So during this conversation, we're going to talk about the questions that you have. I know you've got questions about what I do, how I do it, and how much it costs. Everybody does. For my part, I'd like to get the best understanding of you and your situation that we can accomplish in next 15, 30 minutes that we have together.

[00:17:35] And what we're going to find as we connect and ask and answer these questions is one of two things. We're either going to see that it doesn't sound like it's the right fit. And if that's the case, it's okay to tell me because it will save us both precious time and energy. [00:18:00] On the other hand, we might see that there is a good connection and there's reason to keep talking or take the next step, but we'll map that out together.

[00:18:12] How does that sound for an agenda for today? So that's a quick expectation setting that basically gives the bullet point at the agenda from the buyer's perspective, not the seller's perspective, right? And that's the opposite of traditional sales.

[00:18:35] Scott Maderer: Hey, today I'm gonna show

[00:18:36] Deb Brown Maher: you this and I'm gonna do that, and we're gonna have a demonstration at the end of that, you're gonna tell me yes or no.

[00:18:42] And

[00:18:42] Scott Maderer: I know you're gonna love it. So you're gonna say yes. Actually, yeah. A lot of times in sales you're taught and at the end of that it, you're going to say yes. You don't even say it's presumed in the conversation that you're going to agree even before you've ever even said anything. [00:19:00] And that's the reason people start with shields

[00:19:04] up. I'm a coach and of course I meet with prospects and we have a sales process and everything just like everyone else. And there's nothing wrong with that. I agree with you on that. But one of the things I tell 'em from the very beginning is I said, by the way, I'm not gonna ask you to make a decision at the end of this call because I believe first off, what I'm doing a lot of times involves finances and time and other things like that, and.

[00:19:30] I, I want you to be able to think about it. I want you to be able to actually prey on it and sleep on it and make an informed decision, not just make a high pressure decision. I am gonna set up some accountability by when you need to make a decision, and we'll agree on what that is, but, Beautiful.

[00:19:48] You have time to make it. I don't want you to make it during this call. And it literally, I can see the body language of people when I say that go, exactly. It's oh, thank goodness, [00:20:00] yes. Cause most coaches are taught it's a high pressure. If you make a decision right now in this call, I'll give you this.

[00:20:07] Or you get this extra thing or you get $500 off or whatever. Or are you in or are you out? Very. Exactly what you're talking about with the high pressure sense bullying.

[00:20:18] Deb Brown Maher: I mean it, some of it is bullying,

[00:20:20] Scott Maderer: right? And then you end up with, and I'll go a step further. I've actually had coaching conversation prospect calls where at the end I go I really don't think we're a good fit.

[00:20:30] Let me help, right? Let me help you find somebody else that would be a better fit. Because I don't think based on my experience and what I've discovered talking to you here, let me give you the name of three other coaches that you may want to talk to, cuz they're gonna be a better. Fit for what you're looking for.

[00:20:45] That's not what I do. Kinda thing. Yes.

[00:20:49] Deb Brown Maher: And that's part of creating the win-win, whether we work together or not. My goal is always, For you to get what you need [00:21:00] and me to get what I need. Both of us. And if that, and it fits better not to work together, I'll be clear about that. Yeah. So it's not just I guess my reason for saying that out loud in part too is it's not always just that the person you're selling to discovers a no. Sometimes as a salesperson you're may you'll be like, Hey, let's not, no, I really don't want you to do this cause it's gonna be bad. And that reflects badly on you and your product and your company cuz that's where you get negative reviews from. So I wanna talk about the title of the book because sell like Jesus. And I think immediately a lot of Christians would be like, wait a minute, Jesus didn't sell anything. Jesus wasn't a salesman. He didn't. Do that and I can think of some obvious answers, but I want to give you a chance to share why did you title it that and what's the [00:22:00] feedback that you get from folks?

[00:22:02] Yeah,

[00:22:03] Deb Brown Maher: so the short answer is God told me to call it that. And my

[00:22:11] Scott Maderer: first reaction right now, how long did you argue with God before? Yeah, he accepted it. My first reaction was, who? Who really?

[00:22:20] Deb Brown Maher: That's very provocative, Lord. He said, I want it to be. Because I, I have a subtitle which helps explain.

[00:22:31] Where I'm going with the title, so seven Characteristics of Christ, so things that Christ did, ways that he communicated that he role modeled for us that we can apply to selling. And so the other reason, I stuck with the title, not just obedience, but [00:23:00] the truth is that we all sell every day. We just don't recognize it as sales.

[00:23:07] So how many of you listening are parents and you negotiate with your children for some kind of reward if they will do chores? Is that sales? I maintain that it is, so here's a definition cuz it helps to go back to, okay, what is sales? Sales is the fair exchange of goods, services, or ideas in return for and agreed upon compensation.

[00:23:44] So that's a much broader way of defining what sales is. Not just products or services. How many people are in a leadership role, whether it's voluntary or [00:24:00] at work, where you need to get your team members to buy in with an idea, a course of action, a way of doing things, a way of communicating internally or with other departments.

[00:24:16] See, it's so the. Characteristics that Christ modeled were done in different communication settings. And

[00:24:32] all the while he was putting forth a completely different picture of kingdom. What the kingdom was and how to be a citizen of the kingdom and what it looks like and sounds like to operate under Godly values.

[00:24:57] And he mapped those out. [00:25:00] The. The Sermon on the Mount is where he goes through a whole bunch of do this, don't do that. So he's showing a different way of being, of interacting, of showing up, of reflecting Christ in your everyday life. And yeah. And the Beatitudes, which is the Sermon of the Mount the.

[00:25:29] Scott Maderer: The verb tense that he actually used isn't doing, it's being, in other words, it literally in the verb tense, if you go back to the root. Of the word. That's good. It isn't. Go do this. Go be humble. But it's be this, which sounds like it means the same thing, but really doesn't if you think about it.

[00:25:50] Deb Brown Maher: That's a great point.

[00:25:53] I'm really glad you brought that out because being we be before we [00:26:00] do right. Who we be, we take into every circumstance that we do. So he is working on identity, right? Who we are, how he made us, and then how we show that through our interactions with others. Yeah. And when you talk about the seven characteristics that you're talking about, so I guess I want to clarify for folks, is this like one of those sales books where it's the technique, number one, ask more questions.

[00:26:40] Scott Maderer: Technique number two are, is it more about when you say characteristics, things like how we approach it are we somebody that has Yeah, these. Kinds of mindsets or beliefs or what, how does that actually come about in the book? [00:27:00] And each may be both.

[00:27:03] Deb Brown Maher: The characteristics are very broad categories, and within each of those categories, we talk about the mindset that supports being that way.

[00:27:19] And the strategies to live it out. Oftentimes we talk about and we agree on let's take love for example. We think we know what that means. Jesus tells us love is the first commandment. Love the Lord your God. Love your neighbor as yourself, so love God, your neighbor and yourself. Okay. So how do I love during a sales call?

[00:27:55] One of the ways I love is by respecting [00:28:00] someone's decision making power. So I never step on your right to decide for yourself. So e, let's just say, you would say Deb, you are the expert. What should I do? What do you think is the best course of action for me? Wouldn't I love to answer that?

[00:28:30] No, of course.

[00:28:30] Scott Maderer: Yeah. Just fine. Just say yes and we'll be, yeah, everything will be good.

[00:28:36] Deb Brown Maher: That's not love. That's me imposing. That's me taking advantage. You gave me an opening and now I'm disregarding the rule that says you are the decision maker, not me.

[00:28:54] Scott Maderer: And it's a presumption that somehow you could possibly know enough about somebody else.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] To ever answer that question, actually. Exactly. Yeah. I've been married to my wife a long time, and I guarantee you, I do not know her well enough to make decisions for her, so now if you're not allowed to answer that, then what do you say to keep relationship, to continue to build trust, to continue to go deep, so that's where the technique comes in, because we're not taught everybody will, everybody listening is going well, yeah, that makes sense, but now what? The next step is what do I

[00:29:34] Deb Brown Maher: say? Okay. So here's an option. And Scott, I appreciate you asking for my input, but honestly, if I answer that now, I'm doing both of us a disservice.

[00:29:48] So let me come back and ask you what. What do you feel is missing in order for you to make a good decision about this? [00:30:00] So the technique is to empathize with a softening statement that continues to build relationship and trust. To explain why I'm not going to answer and then to ask you another question.

[00:30:20] To allow you to come forward with what I'm really concerned about, cuz there's something right, that somebody's hesitant about asking or talking about or bringing up, they don't wanna insult you. What, for whatever reason, they're trying to be nice to you by asking you to decide for them. And it's a trap, it's a relational trap.

[00:30:46] So first you have to recognize, but it's based on the mindset that's driving you that says you're the decision maker. And I have to respect that at all times. Jesus never [00:31:00] made the decision for anyone else. He let people walk away. He did. He never pressed anyone to choose him to choose their healing.

[00:31:15] He waited. He planted seeds. He watered those seeds and he let people come to their own conclusion. So there is an example of that concept of connection. And the importance of establishing trust and fostering trust, and then one of the techniques that enables you to actually do that in real life.

[00:31:47] Scott Maderer: When you think about sales again, I think the reputation that a lot of times sales has is this idea of high pressure, of not being really unethical. [00:32:00] Think about it the used car salesman? Yeah. The minute I said that out loud, everyone had a mental image, it's a joke. It becomes a movie trope. It becomes a joke. In society because it's it's lawyer again, immediately people caught thought of a mental image. We have these professions that we put these roles on. How is what you're teaching how does that help shift that sort of label that we put on what sales is in, in a positive way?

[00:32:40] Deb Brown Maher: If we keep doing what everyone has always done, we're gonna get those same results. So we have to consciously choose to do things differently, not just for the sake of different, [00:33:00] but because we believe there's a better result to achieve. So the. I don't know if I'm answering your question. Ask me

[00:33:12] Scott Maderer: again.

[00:33:13] Yeah I think you are. But so basically that idea of we have this mental image of sales as the not being ethical, not being being manipulative. Not doing things the right way and so much that it's almost become a joke in our society. Yeah. How is what you teach able to help shift that label or that picture that people have of the

[00:33:42] Deb Brown Maher: salesperson?

[00:33:45] So what I do is equip people with the strategy to show that they are different by the way that they interact with [00:34:00] people. We cannot. Show up and say, I'm a Christian. You can trust me. I have lots of customers who love what I do, and they're very happy with us. Why? Because now you sound like everybody that is in the ugly sales barrel.

[00:34:22] And as soon as you say, trust me, people go, no way.

[00:34:28] Scott Maderer: You can't mental note, don't trust them. Got it. Okay.

[00:34:32] Deb Brown Maher: If you use the language that triggers the sales shark image, you will be seen as a sail shark. So you have to show up and operate differently. That is the skillset that, first of all, the good news is anybody can learn.

[00:34:55] Is it easy to learn? No, cuz we're swimming upstream. We are not [00:35:00] able to do what other people do. We have to consciously make choices. We have to script. Practice in front of a mirror. Be real. Be willing to be really uncomfortable and take a risk at sounding weird and maybe disjointed because you're not as polished.

[00:35:19] All of, we have to get over ourselves to take the risk to try something different before we can see the positive result that it will get. So that's. What I help people do through the book. The book is a great start because you can read and digest each chapter on your own, and I've set it up with action steps.

[00:35:47] Not only do I summarize the key points for every chapter, but I also have questions you can answer and practice things that you can do. To build your [00:36:00] muscles at interacting differently. And I'll be real transparent and say there are two skill areas that we all have to get better at, and I continue to refine.

[00:36:12] And those are asking questions and listening, but the listening comes first. And when we really learn. How to listen with the intent of understanding, not so I can figure out what I need to ask next. But really listen, and that will force us to ask better questions because people don't buy products and services.

[00:36:43] They buy the solution to a problem. They buy. What they believe is going to be the answer to something they want, need, desire, and the absence of which [00:37:00] is causing problems.

[00:37:03] Scott Maderer: I don't buy a drill. I will wanna buy a hole in the wall and I use a drill to put the hole in the wall. But cuz yeah.

[00:37:10] That kind of thing. And it's not just that I need a drill, it's because. My in-laws have come to live with us and we are trying to create a sacred space for them so that they have some privacy. And in order to do that, we've gotta do some building. And I can't afford to get a contractor, but I wanna do it.

[00:37:34] Deb Brown Maher: So that's way beyond, I need to put a hole in the wall. So it's those deeper reasons. That most salespeople never discover because we don't know how to ask the diagnostic questions to get us to that understanding.

[00:37:58] Scott Maderer: [00:38:00] Moving past just the solution to the immediate and into what's the deeper things that are driving.

[00:38:06] Yes. Driving people. Yes.

[00:38:10] Deb Brown Maher: And again, I wanna point back to Jesus because that's what he did. He didn't just come along and say, oh, you're blind. Okay let me fix your eyes. No. Everything he did, he was working on mind, B, body, soul, spirit, all at the same time. He didn't just hit the physical need.

[00:38:35] He was working on the whole person. You mentioned that this often can feel pretty uncomfortable for folks. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that's an uncomfortable way of doing it?

[00:38:54] It's not been role modeled for us. The opposite it we see every [00:39:00] day. We've got plenty of examples of the wrong way of doing it.

[00:39:04] We have very few examples of. How to do it in a way that will get that true. It's good for both of us results. So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else about the book or about this kind of process that you teach that you feel is really important to share with the listener?

[00:39:31] I really wanna emphasize that. Salespeople are not born. You don't have to have this certain personality to be a salesperson. In fact, introverts, technicians and engineers make some of the best salespeople, and the reason for that is they understand the value of process. So sales is a combination of applying a process while you are [00:40:00] communicating.

[00:40:01] And Following that process will get you the best result. So these are skills that are very learnable. Anybody can learn to sell effectively and ethically. So you know the so many small business owners, freelancers, entrepreneurs, solo entrepreneurs, fail at their business. Because they call sales unnecessary evil.

[00:40:34] That mindset needs to change. Sales is the way that we help people overcome gaps. And when sales is done well, it is,

[00:40:49] Scott Maderer: it's a gift.

[00:40:51] Deb Brown Maher: To those who purchase from us.

[00:40:54] Scott Maderer: I would echo that a hundred percent. I see a lot of I [00:41:00] work with a lot of coaches. I actually train other folks on coaching and the, one of the biggest hurdles we have to fight is that mindset of oh, if I go out and I'm prospecting, or I'm talking to people that's bad and I shouldn't do.

[00:41:13] And it's no if you truly believe that what you are doing can help people not telling them about it. Is actually worse. If you think about it, that not letting people know what you do. If you really believe in what you do now, if you think what you do is bad, then that's a different problem.

[00:41:34] Deb Brown Maher: Isn't that burying the talent? Uhhuh? It is, yeah. Not telling people. Yeah.

[00:41:40] Scott Maderer: Yeah. And yet we often do that. We, I find people that often do that. My brand is inspired stewardship and I kinda run things through that lens of stewardship. For you, when you hear the word stewardship, what does that mean to you?

[00:41:56] Cuz kinda like you were defining terms earlier, I've discovered that [00:42:00] word means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So what does that word mean to you and how has it impacted your life?

[00:42:07] Deb Brown Maher: So stewardship. Obviously I think about tithing and gift giving as part of stewardship.

[00:42:16] I also view writing the book, so like Jesus and doing podcasts like this one with you, Scott, as being a good steward. Of the talents and treasures that the Lord has given me and helped me develop and fine tune because if I don't share what I've learned, it goes to the grave with me and to me that's really bad stewardship.

[00:42:50] So part of my being a good steward is writing the book. Making the effort to market the book, talk [00:43:00] about the book when I show up and take the flack when it comes. And it does come because people judge a book by its cover and it's been part of my growth journey that when someone criticizes the title, And typically it has been Christians.

[00:43:19] Scott Maderer: I was gonna say that's probably from Christians.

[00:43:23] Deb Brown Maher: I have learned to say thank you so much for telling me your thoughts. Are you willing to discuss them? I'd love to hear where you're coming from. Help me understand your perspective. And if they will engage. We have ended up friends and those that will not engage, I hear Jesus say.

[00:43:46] Leave that town and brush the dust off your feet. And again, like you're going to convince them we're back to the beginning of the conversation with sales.[00:44:00] I can't violate my own principle, which is I can't convince anybody of anything. So we can talk about it, we can discuss it, we can dialogue.

[00:44:12] We may end up in the end still being on different. Wavelengths and that's okay. But at least we had the discussion.

[00:44:21] Scott Maderer: And I'm gonna echo, so something that I've been talking a lot about recently, I is the difference between unity and uniformity. Oh, yes. Often as Christians, we confuse those two, I think, and what we.

[00:44:41] We claim we're after Unity. But what we're really after is uniformity. We want everyone to look like us, think like us, feel like us, believe like us. That's not unity. Unity in inherently, to me at least, includes diversity. Diversity of thoughts, diversity of look, diversity [00:45:00] of exactly that kind of thing.

[00:45:01] But yeah, we're all still after the same thing. We. We can both love Jesus, even though we don't do it exactly the same way or look exactly the same way and serve together and or to use your field. We can sell, we can do these things, but we don't have to do it in a in a manipulative way.

[00:45:24] Exactly. So here's my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine. And I could pluck you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, 250 years. But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your whole life and see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts that you've left behind.

[00:45:49] What impact do you hope you've left behind in the world?

[00:45:55] Deb Brown Maher: I hope that I have. [00:46:00] Encouraged people in a way that they have hope. I see hopelessness everywhere and I love encouraging people, and one of the most important ways to encourage someone is to affirm. The God that is in them the God characteristics, the unique elements that God has wired into them, to affirm that and to affirm that theyre, they have value, they bring value because of who they are, not what they do, but who they are.

[00:46:56] I wanna be a hope spreader. A harbinger of [00:47:00] hope.

[00:47:02] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next for you is you finish out the year and continue on the rest of this year. What's on the roadmap?

[00:47:10] Deb Brown Maher: I'm on a journey to reevaluate with the Lord what fruit he wants me to produce. So who it is that I'm still becoming and what doors he's going to open for me for those things to do that are going to yield the fruit that he wants me to produce.

[00:47:41] So that, that's where my prayer time is right now. I don't have any answers just yet, but that's okay because he is faithful.

[00:47:55] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Deb and her book Sell Like Jesus over at [00:48:00] her website, which is deb brown sales.com. That's Deb, d e b Brown like you would expect, and sales spelled out.com. Of course, I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well. Deb, is there anything else you'd like to

[00:48:14] Deb Brown Maher: share with the listener?

[00:48:17] So I would like to encourage people, if you've found this interesting to purchase the book through Amazon, you can get Kindle or paperback. And on page 17 is my email address. Send me an email and I will give you 15 minutes of free sales coaching. Cool.

[00:48:40] Scott Maderer: That is an awesome gift. Thanks so much for being here

[00:48:46] Deb Brown Maher: today.

[00:48:47] Oh, thank you so much.[00:49:00]

[00:49:05] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes.

[00:49:32] Rate all one word. iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review, and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.[00:50:00]

In today's episode, I ask Deb about:

  • Her journey to writing Sell Like Jesus...  
  • Why sales shouldn’t be the thing that it often is perceived as...
  • How we can shift our thinking about sales and become more ethical sales people...
  • and more.....

Some of the Resources recommended in this episode: 

I make a commission for purchases made through the following link.

From the outset as a sales person if I’m trying to convince you of something I’ve got all the pressure, I’m violating your right to say no cause the only answer I’m allowed to accept is yes. – Deb Brown Maher

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About the author 


Helping people to be better Stewards of God's gifts. Because Stewardship is about more than money.

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