Episode 1326: Interview with Catherine Llewellyn founder of Yes You Now

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1,326 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:07] Catherine Llewellyn: I'm Catherine Llewellyn. I invite you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to tune into your real calling and tune out all the noise is key.

[00:00:32] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

[00:00:53] It releases extraordinary creativity and resourcefulness and resilience to actually then accomplish what they want to accomplish in a way which [00:01:00] is compassionate and loving and supportive to those around them. So consciousness is like the very, very big on switch for human potential and success.

[00:01:12] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be. Then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true column. In the Inspired Stewardship podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:44] In today's podcast episode, I interview Katherine Louellen. I ask Katherine about her journey to becoming a humanistic psychologist. I also ask her to share a build about her faith and what a humanistic psychologist even is. And Katherine also shares with you [00:02:00] some tips for high performing type A leaders and what they can do to both lead well and be healthy.

[00:02:07] One reason I like to bring you great interviews, like the one you're gonna hear today is because of the power. In learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read, and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by Audible.

[00:02:28] Go to inspired stewardship.com/audible to sign up and you can get a 30 day free trial. There's over 180,000 titles to choose from, and instead of reading, you can listen your way to learn from some of the greatest minds out there. That's inspired stewardship.com/audible to get your free trial and listen to great books the same way you're listening to this podcast.

[00:02:55] Turn is a master humanistic psychologist, overturning accepted norms [00:03:00] for human potential and promoting free thinking and self-actualization among powerful and influential type A high achievers. She's a straight talking, authentic and constantly learning. You'll find most of her wandering the Welsh Hills deep in one creative project or another are enjoying various alternative activities such as conscious stance.

[00:03:19] She founded? Yes, you now in 2020 as a vehicle for helping high achievers go to the next level for their business and for themselves personally. She works in Wales, UK, and online. And her expertise lies in working with highly successful people acting as a guide, facilitator, coach, and mentor. Her goal is to assist powerful and influential men and women to provide the strong and wise leadership the world needs in these disastrous times.

[00:03:49] Welcome to the show, Catherine.

[00:03:51] Catherine Llewellyn: Thank you, Scott. I'm delighted to be here.

[00:03:54] I

[00:03:54] Scott Maderer: am great to have you here as we record this and put this out for the [00:04:00] listers. I really look forward to it, and people can already tell from your accent that you're not from, you're not from South Texas where I'm from.

[00:04:07] That's right. Talk a little bit about that. We talked a little bit in the intro about where you're from and what you do and. The work that you do, but can you unpack a little bit more about your journey and what brought you to be the psychologist you are to do the work that you're doing with other folks as a coach, speaking, all of those things

[00:04:29] Catherine Llewellyn: that you do.

[00:04:31] Yeah. It's a long story, obviously, so I'll try not to take the whole episode answering that question. But I was talking to my brother yesterday actually, and he reminded me that when we were growing up, our father, Who was actually in his forties when he started having the family. So he is an older father than usual.

[00:04:50] He actually treated us as if we were intelligent thinking beings right from the minute that we could actually talk. And I think that set [00:05:00] up an expectation in me that was a reasonable way to behave with everybody. And, but everyone's got the opportunity to think for themselves and actually learn and grow.

[00:05:10] And I think that interested me because I immediately noticed that a lot of people in life don't behave as if they see themselves that way or don't behave as if they see other people that way. And a lot of people putting energy into talking about stuff that doesn't actually really matter to them and trying to persuade people they believe in things, they don't really believe it a lot of wasted energy and time and I think right then as a child, I realized they wanted to be somebody who.

[00:05:39] Understood that and was helpful to people around that. And then the journey from there was a whole mixture of me learning who I was. Me learning how to deal with becoming a woman, me learning with relationships, how to do a job, how to hold things down, learning some skills all the stuff we all learn.

[00:05:57] There was a sort of contextual [00:06:00] balloon around it, if you like, that I wanted to consciously become more aware and more supportive to other people around their own awareness and their own growth. And so it's a long, long involved story, but that's it kind of the summary of the essence of it.

[00:06:16] Scott Maderer: But why humanistic psychology? How did you end up in that field? First off, what is it for those that are hearing that and going what?

[00:06:27] Catherine Llewellyn: You what? The funny thing of it is I actually was I didn't know. But I already was a human ex humanistic psychologist before I even heard the words for it.

[00:06:40] I did a master's degree in my forties and I'd already been working with other people for 16 years by then. And we were learning all this material, this philosophy and all these methodologies, and I, this is what I've been doing for the last 16 years. So that's what it's called. That's what it's called.

[00:06:58] And the [00:07:00] humanistic psychology is distinct from humanism. So humanism is a different thing, and that's very important to say. So I, in humanistic psychology, we assume that each and every person has their own sovereignty, their own autonomy, their own right to choose their own path in life, and their own natural appetite for growth.

[00:07:20] And development and that if you actually let them, if you don't get in the way and suppress them, people will naturally want to grow and they will naturally have quite a good idea about what they want. So it's a very different assumption from the assumption that people are lazy, unimaginative, not very bright, and you've gotta persuade them to want to learn to grow.

[00:07:44] It's completely the opposite point of view. And then out of that comes a. A massive body of material around ways of becoming someone who can do that work. Ways of dealing with your own ego, getting over yourself, being able to really [00:08:00] tune into other people with compassion and empathy, but with clarity and firmness when that's required, and all of the things that are needed to really honor and respect people in quite a profound way.

[00:08:12] You can't lie about that. You can't pretend to do that. You can mess it up. You can make a mistake and you can correct it, but you can't get away with pretending. You have to do the inner work to become a humanistic psychologist. So I've done an enormous amount of personal work and a lot of it very weird to get to the point where I can actually do what I do.

[00:08:36] So

[00:08:37] Scott Maderer: talk a little bit about your faith journey and how that has intersected with your path and the work that you do.

[00:08:43] Catherine Llewellyn: It's a really good question. We, growing up, we were not religious. We didn't go to church or anything at school. Sometimes they took us to the local church for, on a sort of a day trip or something, which I never really, they never explained quite why they were doing it.

[00:08:58] And we had a thing called [00:09:00] I, which was religious instruction class, and it was like we were battered with all this information from the Bible and it was really not a good way to engage with all of that. Wonderful material. So I came into my young my adolescents and young adult, I would think I was just not religious at all and just thought it was all a waste of time.

[00:09:21] But I, I then discovered that what I really had was quite a strong connection with what I could talk about as the wonder of existence, the wonder of the fact that we are here and that it really is an extraordinary, miraculous thing that we exist. And to me, if someone asks me the question, do I believe there is a consciousness bigger than my own?

[00:09:45] My answer is, I really hope so, and I really believe there is that sort of sense that it, we are not the ultimate expression of existence we humans is my sense. So I don't [00:10:00] follow a particular thing around what that might look like or what the rules are, et cetera, but I've got a very strong connection with.

[00:10:05] Finding one's path of truth and love. I've got a strong connection with being in service to the whole, and a strong connection in the idea that there is a much bigger consciousness. Some people call it the source. Some people call it God, some people call it the great mother, whatever.

[00:10:24] But I, I have a direct experience that actually exists. So I think you, that might be an answer to your question, perhaps.

[00:10:32] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. And again, that's one of the things I try to highlight on this show is that a lot of us have different paths to finding, it's why I ask about faith more than religion because at the end of the day how was your journey to discovering that there's something bigger than you?

[00:10:52] Whatever name you want to give it, whatever religious faith you grew up in, whatever denomination you, whatever label you wanna put on it. [00:11:00] Or the other one that you'll hear is I'm spiritual, not religious. Yes. Which usually means I believe in God, but don't go to church. Or whatever.

[00:11:09] It, the label is less important than the journey to, to me, and we all have different journeys, so that, I think that's important. And what you're saying is as a. From your point of view, you're trying to acknowledge that people might have different journeys to where they are today.

[00:11:28] They're all valuable no matter what. They're just their journey, not, yes. I have to put the conditioning on it that they didn't do it the way I did it. Yeah.

[00:11:37] Catherine Llewellyn: Yeah. And actually, this is something I've only, I haven't been connected to it quite as simply or purely if you like, as I am now for all that long.

[00:11:46] I'd say it's a couple of decades maybe. Where, whereas before that, I was much more in the probably, I don't know, maybe more common point of view, which is that a particular. Religion or dogma or [00:12:00] philosophy is correct and the others are not. And something that really hit me with this, a friend of mine went off and became a, an interfaith minister.

[00:12:08] Do you have that over there? We, yes, we have some folks that work in that field. Yeah.

[00:12:12] And I thought, ah, that's really interesting. There's a body of people that actually create, have created this. Intense course where you learn about all sorts of different religions and you are then a minister and you can marry people and you can do funerals and you can do those kinds of celebration.

[00:12:29] And that really struck me and she told me quite a lot about her experience doing that process. And it really changed her doing it. It's a very powerful experience.

[00:12:41] Scott Maderer: Yeah. I've been fortunate enough to have a lot of interactions and work that I've done across different denominations and different religions through the work that I've done that's helped educate me and make me more comfortable with working with folks.

[00:12:59] And [00:13:00] it's like at the end of the day, it's we both believe in service. We both believe there's a higher power. You call it one thing, I call it another thing that doesn't really matter. Let's celebrate the fact that we've got what we, let's celebrate what we've got in common instead of focusing on what's different.

[00:13:17] Yeah. If that makes sense. Completely. How does the work you do now working with high powered executives and folk type a high achievers, whatever label you wanna put on it. H how does the work you do intersect and connect to your study, your background and what came before?

[00:13:43] Catherine Llewellyn: I have this Strong sense of possibility around human potential. And someone told me the other day that they thought my superpower was freedom of spirit, which I would say is probably true. And [00:14:00] I find I actually believe that the next stage of human evolution is the evolution of consciousness.

[00:14:08] That, and we are, I believe we are collectively evolving our consciousness. Some of the current events, not withstanding. I do think on balance, I think that we are doing that, and so that's what I'm trying to do with my clients. Now the reason I can get away with that with my clients is that the more conscious people are, The easier it is to get clear about the truth of the current situation that they're in, the truth of what they want from their heart, their mind, their spirit, their soul, and everything.

[00:14:39] And it releases extraordinary creativity and resourcefulness and resilience to actually then accomplish what they want to accomplish in a way which is compassionate and loving and supportive to those around them. So consciousness is like the very, very big on switch for human potential and [00:15:00] success.

[00:15:00] So I've got that motivation and it manifests with the clients in a way that they're really grateful for. They love it and some of them are into that kind of language and some of them aren't. So I just go with whatever is, works better with the individual person. But yeah, that's how it tunes in.

[00:15:18] And we do a lot of work on tuning into the body. What's the body telling you? What are the sensations, which some people have not tuned into their body since. The 1970s. And what does that tell you about your experience and your intuition and your feelings and emotions and everything else?

[00:15:38] We do a lot of work tuning into the many layers of perception and interpretation of what's going on and lateral thinking and creative thinking and all of that work. We do a lot of work tuning into. What's the fire inside of us that is really our [00:16:00] passion and that really empowers us? And are we tending that fire or are we just throwing the occasional piece of Deadwood onto it and hope it'll keep going?

[00:16:11] Or are we actually looking after ourselves and reflecting and questioning what we're doing and how we're doing it? And are we totally self obsessed? Which of course is the danger when people do that sort of work, or are we actually paying attention to people outside of us? And are we refraining from projecting onto them who we think they are?

[00:16:30] Are we refraining from projecting onto them what we think they should be doing with their lives? Are we genuinely paying attention to them? Because when we do that, we can really have proper, authentic relationships and we can really do some incredible stuff in our businesses. Because then we can draw out all of the creativity and wonderfulness that's present.

[00:16:49] So all of this stuff all blends in together. And in the work, sometimes we'll be focusing on one particular thing and sometimes we'll be working much more generally, but there's always [00:17:00] that underpinning foundation around raising consciousness. With the purpose of doing the life the way that client wants to do their life.

[00:17:12] Scott Maderer: Working with, so a lot of what. People would see as highly successful people type A I I worked in the corporate world for 11 years. I was an executive flew around the country, highly compensated all of that stuff. And I've worked with a lot of other folks in those fields.

[00:17:33] They were peers. They were from other companies. They were whatever, but interacted and from the outside, a lot of times everyone looks at 'em and goes that person's got it all together. They're successful. They're they're paid well. They drive a nice car.

[00:17:48] They Whatever. They have a wife and 2.4 children and a white picket fence and e everything's perfect. And yet when you talk to the person and get to know 'em, a lot of times there's a lot of [00:18:00] frustration. There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of feeling of I should feel like I've got it all, but I don't.

[00:18:09] Yeah. Do you see that, that conflict in the leaders that you're working with, and what do you think some of that comes from your point of view?

[00:18:18] Catherine Llewellyn: There's a myth that I think the media has a lot of responsible for, but hers a myth, which is that the goal is to get to a place where you no longer feel upset ever.

[00:18:31] And it, that's just not the only way to do that, as one of my teachers used to say with, is to take your brain out and put it into a little bowl of tepid water and just pipe. Lift music through it that's the only way to do that.

[00:18:46] Scott Maderer: It's a horrible, I dunno about that. That sounds pretty excruciating

[00:18:49] Catherine Llewellyn: to me.

[00:18:50] Is that excruciating? I took his point. The only way is he completely

[00:18:55] Scott Maderer: disengaged from life. We can remove ourselves from everything. Yeah. And go up on the mountain like a [00:19:00] guru and sit there and be completely absorbed. Yeah.

[00:19:03] Catherine Llewellyn: Or just take Vicodin or something on a drip the whole time and.

[00:19:07] Of course the

[00:19:08] Scott Maderer: downside. I think I've met people that do that actually, now that I think about it. But

[00:19:12] Catherine Llewellyn: anyway, I know, and that is that's a way to go. But unfortunately the body w won't put up with that and starts to break down. But yeah this myth, now this, why this myth relates to what you are talking about is two ways.

[00:19:26] One, people who imagine they can get to a certain point in time, and then somehow no longer be subject to the human condition any longer. The human condition is an unconditional part of being alive as a human. So we will always have that no matter how much money we have. So if somebody has an expectation that will go away, when they get their third Porsche, their second Ferrari, their home in Hawaii and this, that and the other, they're going to be sadly disappointed and they're gonna have a crashing meltdown.

[00:19:58] If they believe that. So that's [00:20:00] one of the manifestations and actually one of my podcast guests recently was telling me about what happened to him. He was a TV producer, very famous very successful, and he suddenly hit this point in his forties where he realized he had so many awards. He was doing really well.

[00:20:16] Everyone thought he was fantastic, and he was miserable. And that happens for very high achieving people if they don't remember that the human condition is a universal thing. But the other way the myth applies is people who are watching those highly successful people and projecting onto them, you are supposed to be happy now and then they.

[00:20:44] Meet one of 'em in the park or something sitting, nursing their ankle cause they've just hurt their ankle running or something. Or upset because they're trying to give up smoking and it's difficult or, and they think this is wrong. Surely you shouldn't be feeling this way cuz you are rich. You [00:21:00] should be fine.

[00:21:00] So all of this is about expectations

[00:21:03] Scott Maderer: Rich people don't have any

[00:21:04] problems.

[00:21:05] Catherine Llewellyn: Yeah, exactly. The only problem they don't have is the problem of being poor. And that's real, that's a real thing. Sure. Absolutely. And that's great. So I al I also think sometimes people get into it like a bubble.

[00:21:23] You know how sometimes the market will get into a bubble which will later on burst. Like whichever market that might be. So that can happen in someone's life as well where they, where a bubble occurs, where they just keep, everything keeps. Quotes getting better, but they're doing it at the cost of staying tuned into their inner self.

[00:21:47] So they're over focusing on externals. They're over focusing on success, progress, material, wealth, and building. Building, building as if ongoing building is an [00:22:00] endless inevitable path. But it's a bit like if you really like chocolate and you'd say, I'm just gonna eat chocolate all the time.

[00:22:08] Cause I really like it. There comes a point where your body will rebel and will say, look, you actually feel terrible now. I know you enjoy eating the chocolate, but Right. And your chocolate bubble bursts and you suddenly realize you need to go on a cleanse. You need to go on a retreat, you need to detox on chocolate.

[00:22:28] You need to do all of that. And the same applies with people who get Overly hooked in to the success hamster wheel. And it's a really shocking experience because by then the ego, some, sometimes the ego by then is really swollen. And so the shock of the awakening hurts more when the ego is swollen.

[00:22:51] And sometimes people don't come back from that, and sometimes they do. So it's it's [00:23:00] it's And anyone who's trying to accomplish a lot in life, that's the potential problem they're taking on when they do that, that, that problem of swollen ego bursting, bubble of expectation, meltdown, and then how do I come back?

[00:23:18] It's a genuine risk. And I

[00:23:21] Scott Maderer: think a lot of times too, you know that part of the risk of that is not just how it affects us, but how we often. How it often affects the people around us as well, because yeah, often it's easier to quote lash out at the people around you and blame. I think that's where a lot of what the midlife crisis and that kind of moment of.

[00:23:43] I'm gonna divorce my wife, leave my kids, quit my job do whatever. Yeah. Leave my husband that feeling of, because again, like you said, it's chasing that well, something has to be wrong, so let me fix it because yeah. I should [00:24:00] be happy. Yes. And yet, And again, it's not that they can't be happy, it's just it's not gonna be a permanent condition of every moment, of every day, no matter where you are on the journey.

[00:24:10] That's

[00:24:10] Catherine Llewellyn: right. That's right. I my version of that used to be moving house. I would be, do you know what? I think if I lived somewhere different things would be better and I just kept moving house. And sometimes I, it was better, but the thing that was, that I really wanted to improve didn't improve because guess who came with me every time I moved me?

[00:24:35] Yeah. My stuff. So it was, that was my version.

[00:24:40] Scott Maderer: You didn't pack up your stuff. You really did pack up your stuff. I really did up, I

[00:24:43] Catherine Llewellyn: cracked up my stuff I couldn't leave my stuff behind. Yeah. So that does that. But also the other thing to say is sometimes people have a massive awakening in their.

[00:24:54] Twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies even. And that [00:25:00] awakening tells them it is time to leave the relationship. Sometimes that actually is the right thing to do and who knows what it's gonna be. But I think the risk comes when people think there's a particular outcome to the meltdown that everyone should do.

[00:25:17] The whole point of the meltdown is it tells you that you don't know. You just don't know. And all you do know is it's not working and you haven't managed to make it work. And you need to get that and recognize that, and then go into a state of curiosity and appreciation for what you have, which some people would say is a spiritual state.

[00:25:38] Actually that curiosity and appreciation state. And a lot of the people I work with, Are either in that state when they start working with me or they go into it while they're working with me. Cuz generally if they end up on in front of me, it's because they've reached a point where they've recognized [00:26:00] there's some work for them to do.

[00:26:01] And that they want a more meaningful next piece. And they want to be more aware and they want to be more loving and great giving and contributive and part of the solution that, and so on. And in fact, stewardship, that is a beautiful word that you have on your podcast. A lot of them, it's also a meeting of that moment of recognizing that they have a role of stewardship and they want to honor it and do it well.

[00:26:26] So they tend to have gone through a bit of that before they show up with me. Otherwise, they wouldn't choose someone like me to work with. The and to be clear, yeah. The, I wasn't putting or trying I wasn't trying to say like leaving a relationship or staying in the relationship is what's right or wrong?

[00:26:45] Scott Maderer: No. The point is, when you begin to look out often we look first to outside things and want to change them to fix what's actually an inside problem,

[00:26:56] Catherine Llewellyn: Exactly. Exactly. No, I didn't think you did mean [00:27:00] that. I always think though, it's important to emphasize these things because Absolutely.

[00:27:04] It's so easy for us to get into this sort of myth, myth head where we and I've noticed this, if I listened to a podcast episode, let's say, and then six months later I listened to it again. And you heard it and I think, oh my God, I didn't hear that when they said it last time. But they sure as hell said it.

[00:27:25] Scott Maderer: Yeah. The words came out of their mouth, but that doesn't mean you heard it. No, absolutely. Yeah. It's the difference between hearing and listening. Yeah. Which again, comes down to another thing that often creates some of the problems that we're talking about or some of the difficulties and challenges that we're talking about as we don't necessarily hear and listen the same way.

[00:27:45] I agree. When you're working with list leaders and you're talking to these folks that, that you work with, what are some of the biggest concerns that they have, challenges they [00:28:00] have and what, you know it for the listener that's listening, what is something important as they hear those concerns or those challenges that, that they can take away?

[00:28:12] Catherine Llewellyn: There's been an effect I'm talking about in today's world and we are mid 2023. For anyone who's listened to this in 2030,

[00:28:25] Scott Maderer: they may not be in two context.

[00:28:27] Catherine Llewellyn: Yeah, exactly. But right now the world's just been through two or three ye a very unusual two or three years. And one of the strong themes throughout that period was fear.

[00:28:41] And all of the things that, that come out of fear and one of the effects of fear that goes on for a long time is that it, it erodes the. Inner, the inner structure, the inner strength, and the inner resourcefulness of human [00:29:00] beings. It's one of the most debilitating emotions that, that we that there are for us.

[00:29:06] And we are not designed to experience it for extended periods. We're designed to experience it for just long enough to get the hell out of the way of the tiger or the master dawn, whatever it is, and then it's supposed to go away, right? So we are not designed for that. We've got a situation now where many people are still suffering from the after effects of that, the shadow of that, and they've got a bit less energy, a bit less imagination, a bit less optimism, a bit less creativity, a bit less flexibility.

[00:29:43] They're a bit more fragile. They're a bit normal nervous. They are, they find it harder to commit to things. They find it harder to make decisions. They find it harder to have fun. Now what that means is if you're a leader, and this is what leaders tell [00:30:00] me as well, it's, they're constantly thinking, how can I help my people feel better?

[00:30:06] How can I help them relax? How can I help 'em feel safe? How can I help 'em feel confident? Because people are walking around going, is this gonna happen again? Is something awful gonna happen to my family? There are people walking around thinking that right now, and that's really difficult.

[00:30:26] And the other thing about it, of course, is in this economy, organizations need to be actually more effective than usual, more agile and flexible and creative. But we've got these depleted. People e either who depleted themselves or people they love are depleted, and that in itself is depleting.

[00:30:48] You come home from work and you say to your partner, how are you? And they go, not great. How are you yesterday? Can't [00:31:00] complain, but not great. And it's

[00:31:04] Scott Maderer: very sad. The answer here is I'm fine. Yeah. Which does not mean I'm fine.

[00:31:11] Catherine Llewellyn: It doesn't exactly. And it's the same over here.

[00:31:13] People say I'm fine. Yeah. And

[00:31:15] Scott Maderer: translate. I don't wanna talk

[00:31:17] Catherine Llewellyn: about it. That's right. It's too painful to talk about it and it's heartbreaking. Personally I find it heartbreaking. And for leaders it can be very difficult because they're carrying that as well. Often they're in a better state because they've been feeding their creativity and their energy in other ways.

[00:31:38] Successful leaders tend to be people who have a whole bunch of stuff in their support structure that helps keep them lively and healthy and flexible and connected. So for them, in many ways, it's often easier, but for their people, not necessarily. And so that's a big issue for leaders at the moment.

[00:31:57] How do I do that without coming across as some sort of [00:32:00] idiot? Who's just trying to wave a flag and say, everything's great. Everyone knows that may not be the case. So how do I do that? It's a, it's really challenging. I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else that you'd like to share about the work that you do or that you think is important for the listener?

[00:32:26] I think not my work specifically, but coaching in general or facilitation. One, one of the unfortunate things we have in our culture is that people view coaching or facilitation or any other kind of help of that sort as a last resort to only use when nothing else has worked. And you are really in a terrible state and very often people view it that way.

[00:32:52] Like a doctor's appointment. You know you have to go and that's really a waste because the best [00:33:00] time to use coaching is when things are going well, because in those times you've got your hands on your resources and you're resilient. It's a bit like if you went wanted to go to a fitness coach.

[00:33:09] You don't go to them when you're sick. You go to them when you are healthy and well, and you're on a good diet, and then they can really do some good stuff with you and you can really excel. It's the same with. Coaching. So I would really encourage and invite people to, to see coaching as an investment alongside all the other investments they put into their endeavors, alongside time, energy, money, personal qualities, skills, all of those things.

[00:33:36] See coaching as one of those ingredients and use it to get more value in return on all those other investments, rather than seeing it as something to only do when you're desperate.

[00:33:49] Scott Maderer: I agree 100%. But often, as you had mentioned earlier it's when there's that pain moment that people come [00:34:00] to coaching as something that they wanna try it's out of the pain as opposed to out of, Hey, I want to get better.

[00:34:09] It's opted out of, I need to fix this at

[00:34:11] Catherine Llewellyn: a moment. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that if you. If you wait till that's the case, it's gonna be much harder work. To do it than if you do it earlier on. It takes longer. It takes longer, and it's more painful because you're tired already.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:29] Scott Maderer: So you know, you mentioned stewardship earlier, and that's my brand is inspired stewardship, and yet that's one of those words that. Is used a lot, but people mean it completely different ways and they hear different things from it. And so I like to ask everybody when you hear the word stewardship, what does that mean to you and what does that understanding H how has that affected your life?

[00:34:52] Catherine Llewellyn: I actually looked it up. I thought, I'm gonna look this up. Okay. And and it said the careful and responsible [00:35:00] management of something entrusted to one's care, which I think is quite good. I, when I was younger, I had no concept of stewardship in the sense that I was just completely selfish. So it was all about me, what do I want for me?

[00:35:16] Over time, I've become aware of the fact that my physical body, for example, is something I have stewardship over. So it's something that's been entrusted to my care and it's up to me to take care of it. And it's a duty to take care of it because if I don't take care of it, I can't function well.

[00:35:41] And if I don't function well, I can't contribute and show up. Not to mention I can't have a enjoyable life, so that's like a first layer of stewardship for me. A kind of next layer is then there are people who have entrusted themselves to my care in the sense they've [00:36:00] trusted me to be a close friend a partner, a colleague, a client.

[00:36:09] A supplier, whatever it is. They've entrusted themselves to me in a way to my care, in the sense that I take care of the way I am with them and of them with me. Not in any kind of parental way, but in a way of responsibility in regard to their wellbeing and care for that. Now, to me, that's another kind of stewardship, which I'm very connected to, and the fact I mentioned both of those things.

[00:36:38] The one about my own body and of course my own emotional wellbeing and all of those other sides of my wellness, and then stewardship for others in my sphere. To me, the two are very closely interdependent because if I sacrifice myself for other people, I then erode myself, [00:37:00] and I then in consequence, actually become a burden on other people.

[00:37:05] But if I sacrifice other people for my good. That doesn't work either, because I actually then erode my soul if I do that. Okay. Which doesn't work for anybody. So to me, my relationship with stewardship is that for the whole thing, me, those around me and in my choice of work, that's my contribution to the planet, if you like.

[00:37:30] It's a very immodest way to put it, but that's in my small way, that's me trying to play my part. As a member of humanity in terms of trying to make a contribution that I think is meaningful. And there's just another example around stewardship, completely different example. Over here we have a car called an Aston Martin.

[00:37:50] Have you come across them? Yes. I'm from beautiful car. I'm proud to own a Aston Martin. And the thing about an Aston Martin [00:38:00] is it's a very beautiful car. And it's a very powerful car. And people who own an Aston Martin will tell you they don't really feel like they own this car.

[00:38:12] They really feel like they are a guardian of the car, like a steward. They have permission to have the blessing and the privilege. Of this thing, allowing them to be in its company for a period of time. Okay, now that's a very materialistic take on the same thing. It's like a sort of heritage thing over here.

[00:38:33] English heritage type thing. This car, every person of every type, every class, age, creed, et cetera. See, loves the Aston market. As a British symbol of something. And so everyone has that slight feeling of sort of stewardship. If they see an Aston, they'll respect it, they'll love it. A jag, maybe not a bmw, maybe not right, but an Aston, there's that [00:39:00] almost devotional relationship with it.

[00:39:02] And that's a very materialistic example of stewardship if you like. But it's still the same underlying emotion. Let's, yeah. Yeah. So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I could invent this magic machine, and with this machine, I could pluck you from where you sit today and transport you into the future, maybe a hundred fifty, two hundred fifty years.

[00:39:30] Scott Maderer: And through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life. See all of the connections you've made, all of the ripples you've had, all of the impacts you've left behind. What impact do you hope you've left behind

[00:39:43] Catherine Llewellyn: in the world?

[00:39:48] The most important thing is love, of course. I would like to look back and see that the people who I've connected with in my life have had a [00:40:00] greater experience of self-love. And a great experience of universal love and a greater experience of human love with others, and that they have actually then helped others to do that as well.

[00:40:17] And that, that has spread out in a kind of a rosy circle from all of those people. And I thought I was gonna say consciousness, but actually the word that came to me when you asked me that question was love.

[00:40:36] Scott Maderer: I'm trying to think to myself, are those the same word in some way or different? It's

[00:40:42] Catherine Llewellyn: arguable. I dunno if you can have one without the other, but you can. Because we have words we can choose to emphasize one thing or another, even though we know that everything's all one great massive magical blob.

[00:40:54] Scott Maderer: Sorry. When you threw out the other word, I'm like, [00:41:00] wait. Okay. Yeah, those are connected for sure. I don't know. Anyway, I know we, we could do another hour debate on that probably and have a conversation about those but I think that's one of the reasons I ask what does stewardship mean to you?

[00:41:14] Because. I think that's one of the things that we do as humans, and that is important to do as humans, is we all use language and we all use words. But I finally have gotten to the point where I realize that when I use a word I. Other people hear it, but they don't necessarily actually hear what I meant by that word.

[00:41:35] Yes. Even though we could both look it up in the dictionary and read what it says in the diction, that doesn't necessarily mean we actually have the same understanding of what that word means.

[00:41:44] Catherine Llewellyn: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think the word service is very strong for me in regard to it. Whereas for someone else, it might mean the boss who's in charge so for me it's more of a service.

[00:41:59] [00:42:00] Emphasis.

[00:42:00] Scott Maderer: As you mentioned, we're about halfway through 2023. What's on the roadmap for you with the rest of the year and going into next year? What's on your journey on your.

[00:42:13] Catherine Llewellyn: Good question. I'm actually at a point in my life where I often have surprises appear in my life, and I often don't quite know what's gonna happen because I keep my life quite spacious.

[00:42:22] I keep quite a lot of space in there so that unexpected things can happen. I'm certainly keeping going with my podcast Truth and Transcendence because that is Just proving to be in the context of what we've been talking about today is actually quite a good vehicle for throwing stuff out into the world, just as your podcast is that anyone anywhere can pick up on and draw from and listen to it with a friend or listen back to it wherever they wanna do.

[00:42:50] So that's certainly continuing. I've been working with some really amazing human beings. And some of [00:43:00] those are gonna continue working with me going forward into next year. Some of those are just about finishing their programs. Although when people finish their programs quite often they show up again a few years later.

[00:43:11] You never know. I'm doing some very interesting work locally, or at least I find it interesting with the local community around conscious dance, which is a very beautiful way to connect with our consciousness and our spirit and our creativity. And I'm doing some lo local stuff around energy techniques that people like to learn and use again, to get more connected to their consciousness and shift their consciousness in a way whereby they can shift their lives.

[00:43:44] So I'm doing my kind of slightly more formal client work, but I'm always doing this beautiful local stuff where I am in Wales, which is such a one beautiful place full of hills and mountains and sheep and.

[00:43:59] Scott Maderer: And [00:44:00] places to walk on the cliffs,

[00:44:01] Catherine Llewellyn: right? Yeah. We don't have cliffs where I am because I'm inland, but oh inland on the mountains, certainly over the tops of the mountains.

[00:44:14] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Catherine over at her website. Yes. You now.today, and that's, all of those words are spelled out. I'll have links to it over in the show notes as well. Catherine, anything else you'd like to share with the

[00:44:27] Catherine Llewellyn: listener? Yes, I, I did subtly drop in my podcast a few moments ago as we were talking.

[00:44:34] I really do recommend listening to that Truth and Transcendence. And there is actually a website link for it. Which I think, Scott, you're gonna put in the show notes, aren't you? Put that in your notes.

[00:44:46] Scott Maderer: Absolutely.

[00:44:47] Catherine Llewellyn: Fantastic. So this podcast is all about the idea that when we really connect with and find and connect with our truth, then we can transcend.

[00:44:57] It's very hard to transcend when we are de [00:45:00] deluding ourselves in any way. But when we find our truth, that gives us amazing power and impetus. So I have a series of incredible guests coming on, talking about their stories and. Their gifts and how they've really transformed their lives and what they're doing.

[00:45:15] And I also have a whole bunch of short solo episodes where I talk about one or other interesting or clear and relevant topic or really obscure topic or whatever you like. So there's something for everybody there. And people say it's quite a an enlightening listen. Truth and transcendence.

[00:45:37] So I'd like to invite you over there and say, welcome to everybody.

[00:45:41] Scott Maderer: Awesome. Of course, I'll have a link to it in the show notes, or you can find that too, anywhere that great podcasts are found. So iTunes or whatever search you have, and it's truth and transcendence.

[00:45:58] Thanks so much for listening to the [00:46:00] Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/.

[00:46:23] iTunes rate all one word, iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review, and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time. Your talent and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.