Episode 1324: Interview with Michael Jaquith about Helping Men Have Faith and Understand Themselves

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1,324 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:08] Michael Jaquith: I'm Michael Jaquith. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability as men to really understand themselves as key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this The Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

[00:00:38] I start with some real basics. Who are you? What are you, who's are you? Identity questions those, having that solid identity is what enables you to be a man. If you're a drifting, if you don't know the answer to who you are, what you are, and whose you are, then you have no chance of standing up in the fire because the fire's gonna come.

[00:00:58] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for [00:01:00] joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, who will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you.

[00:01:22] Can impact the world.

[00:01:32] In today's podcast episode, I interview Michael Jaqui. Michael shares with you his journey to becoming a coach for men. I also ask Michael to share with you what a man really is to him and why so many men feel unequipped. And Michael also shares with you a bit about his faith and how it brought him to the place he is at today.

[00:01:52] One reason I like to bring you great interviews like the one you're gonna hear today is because of the power in learning from [00:02:00] others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read, and that's why today's podcast is brought to you by Audible.

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[00:02:40] Dr. Michael Jack with is a PhD chemist who left the corporate world and now helps Ben everywhere discover how to escape addictions and live a more meaningful and fulfilling life. Certified through the life coach school with a specialization in addiction. He combines cutting edge science and coaching expertise with the time honored teachings [00:03:00] of the faith.

[00:03:01] Michael is married with six children and lives in rural northern Idaho. Welcome to the show, Michael.

[00:03:07] Michael Jaquith: Thank you so much for having me, Scott. I'm excited to be

[00:03:09] Scott Maderer: here. Absolutely. It's great to have you here and I talked a little bit about, in your intro about some of your background and some of the different things that you've done before, but can you talk a little bit more about what brought you from working chemists, working in corporate world, doing these things to now specializing in being a coach like you are with around addiction and these these areas like

[00:03:37] Michael Jaquith: that?

[00:03:38] Absolutely. And it is a weird transition. There's not a lot of like serious researchy people that are wearing the, in the corporate world that decide, I'm gonna go entrepreneurial to go be a life coach. Cause that sounds like a good, logical next move. And really the short answer there is God told me to go this direction.

[00:03:51] And you'd be like, oh, Michael's gotta landline to God. I'll talk to him. No. It's always the school of hard knocks, and so there's a lot of little things that happened. There's a lot of [00:04:00] spots where I just dragged my feet. But when I was doing the corporate work, I had some challenges where I was working in terms of the faith was already being a thing.

[00:04:06] The woke stuff was starting to come in, and that was a part of it. But even that wouldn't have been enough to get me out. God also really blessed me with some amazing mentors in my life. And then gave me some opportunities to mentor some amazing other guys, and that together really helped point as well.

[00:04:19] But really I think Scott, what really drove it forward is I'll remember the time that I was praying. And I had felt this call for a while to leave the corporate world, go to this entrepreneurial thing. And I'm sitting there in prayer. I'm actually at church and I've got a notebook with me and I just, I'm just grappling with this.

[00:04:36] And I write down on one side of the piece of paper, every reason to stay in the corporate world. And I write down to the other side of the paper every reason to go Entrepreneurial. And I felt that God just walked me through each item and said, the corporate world is about you trusting money, you trusting things of the world, you choosing safety, security within the world.

[00:04:52] And the entrepreneurial side is where I'm calling you to. And so I said, all right, God, we'll do this. Yeah. That kind of, I think, comes to mind for a lot [00:05:00] of folks and a lot of the folks listening have that feeling of they're trapped in, maybe it's a corporate job, maybe it's a business that they own, whatever it is, that they're trapped where they are, but yet they know that they're someplace else that they're supposed to be.

[00:05:17] Scott Maderer: How long did it take you to actually make. The transition from beginning to think maybe I should to, Nope. I've actually made it,

[00:05:27] Michael Jaquith: it was over a year. And I was totally wearing two hats for a little while there in the middle there. That wasn't really fair to my old job. And I think that's also part of what pushed me along.

[00:05:36] But I'd say it was probably six months of me knowing that God was nudging me, me saying, Nope, maybe another three months. And we wearing both hats and then another three months just to wrap up things at the corporate job.

[00:05:46] Scott Maderer: And as you made that transition what were some of the. The thoughts you were going through, the emotion that you were going through.

[00:05:55] You mentioned doing the pros and cons list and all the, by the way, spoken like a [00:06:00] engineer, absolutely. Research first and background, make a pros and cons list divided an F, but it not that I've ever done that before today. But I've got it. So what what were some of the emotions and thoughts and fears that you had to navigate as you made that transition?

[00:06:20] Michael Jaquith: At that point my wife was pregnant with her third child, and so there was definitely a really big fear in me about providing for the family. It's easy, Scott, when you're just like a solo dude to be like, I'm gonna go roll the dice. But when you've got you're married, your wife's pregnant, you got two little ones at home, there's a lot of fear that can I've gotta bring home with the bacon cuz you know, the kids still want to eat and the kids don't wanna be living in the back of the car like that just doesn't seem like a, the right adventure for them right now.

[00:06:45] Another big one was really doubting myself, am I sure that God's calling me to this? Am I really sure? And so I think that was one of the biggest pushbacks, one of the big confirmations there for me was how supportive my wife was of it, which was mind blowing to me. Cause I'm like, you're six months pregnant.

[00:06:57] What? You want me to leave my [00:07:00] job right now? And she was like, yeah, I do. I'm like, Okay, that, that's a pretty powerful message there. But I think there was one more feeling there and there was this feeling of freedom, this excitement a little bit, cuz I saw the potential of what I could do and not being stuck to do the corporate dance, to put the little rainbow thing under your signature in the email.

[00:07:18] Like whatever the thing is. I know you guys all have had to go through that and the freedom would just be like being able to really help people. That was my dream. That still is. My dream is that's a very compelling, that's filled me with hope and excitement. You mentioned throughout that journey hearing God's voice and feeling this direction from God.

[00:07:38] Scott Maderer: How do you think your faith journey intersected both with that transition and then now with the work you're doing under entrepreneur as a life coach how does your faith journey fit

[00:07:48] Michael Jaquith: into that? My faith was really tested. You don't really know what your faith is until you actually have to really depend upon God.

[00:07:54] You know when you've got that corporate income, nice six figure income, everything provided for, oh yeah, I believe in God. Oh yeah, I'll [00:08:00] keep paying my paycheck here, company, oh, I trusted God. He'll provide me, keep the paychecks coming. And then you go entrepreneurial and you eventually hit some point where you look at your bank account and you look at the bill, you're holding your hand and realize that the first one's smaller than the second one, and you're like, uhoh, this is a Bel where I really gotta trust God.

[00:08:15] And I think that my faith was tested and grew so much in that time. And honestly, I think that's one of the reasons why I think I've had so much success with clients as a coach, is that I can look at them and I can really challenge them to say, you're in this tough spot, whatever. Cause everyone's in a tough spot and you tell 'em you have faith in God.

[00:08:33] Do you really? Is it really a what would real faith look like right now? Because I've been there and I've had that multiple time after time. Whether it's a pa, whether it's a bank account, whether it's not quite sure what's gonna happen regarding health and of a wife of a child. Like we get there and when those moments, that's when we really get tested.

[00:08:49] That's when we grow. Yeah. I,

[00:08:51] Scott Maderer: I actually released a podcast episode not too terribly long ago. And first Peter was [00:09:00] the verse that I was talking about. And it talks about rejoicing and suffering and I think that's always one of those where people, yeah, they misunderstand that.

[00:09:10] They think it means be happy that you're suffering. And it's like that's not actually what that means. It means when times are good, it's easy to be thankful. But you, if you truly have faith in God, you learn, you can be faithful even when times aren't so great. And you can have joy even then.

[00:09:26] Michael Jaquith: Yeah. And that's how we grow. That's how we really learn to lean on God and really have that relationship. It gets deep

[00:09:32] Scott Maderer: Cuz it, sometimes it's easy if everything goes well. And it's when, it's, when there's the hard times that you get that challenge. Speaking of that, when you're working with men today, and even back in your corporate job you may have some reflection on this as well. How do you think we're challenged to. To hold true to our own faith and the expressions of that [00:10:00] and what that looks like, and yet be faced with the real challenges of operating in the world today.

[00:10:07] And being being able to be a functioning member of society and all of those things that it looks like and that tension that creates of wanting to be loving and wanting to be that example of the gospel. And yet also, sometimes, Being convicted to do something that maybe isn't what everyone else is doing.

[00:10:27] Michael Jaquith: Oh it's a real big thing right now. I would say that it's this is a harder time to be a Christian than any time in probably the last thousand years. Easy. And I say that because there's so much of raid against the forces of Christendom. And so I talk to a lot of guys right now that are really struggling.

[00:10:43] How do I really live the faith? And I think Scott, one of the most powerful ways that I have seen guys step into their faith is with forgiveness. With mercy and in a business setting when they've been wrong, to take that first step to go back and offer Mercy to offer for, [00:11:00] to ask for forgiveness or they're in the wrong whatever it is, but that living the Christian values that way could be a very powerful call.

[00:11:05] But we also have to understand that right now, not only is the world set against Christianity, but most guys aren't trained how to be strong in their faith right now. And it's. Unfortunate, but it's the reality. How do you stand tall and say, this is what I believe, in a way that's not threatening, in a way that is definitive, but not pushy.

[00:11:24] And it's a challenge. So what are some of the ways that you've seen people successfully navigate that and respond to that?

[00:11:32] Servant leadership. Really big servant leadership. That's the one I think right now that I'm, I've seen the most success with. If I was just working with a guy who has a problem with his boss and I said, look, you've got a lot of great reasons right now why you are upset with what this guy other guy's doing, but what would Jesus wanna do here?

[00:11:49] And he would really just show up, engage with him, interested in him, serve him a hundred percent. And then so much so that the boss starts to be like, Hey, what's going on here? Like, where is this coming from? [00:12:00] And I think a lot of guys think it's about I'm Catholics. We put ashes on our forehead on Ash Wednesday, which is an awesome thing to do, but okay, that's it.

[00:12:06] That's my message. I went, I told the world about the faith. I'm like, Nope nope. That's not what it's about right there. It's about really loving. It's the story of the Good Samaritan and when we look at our workplace as an opportunity to love that one, it changes the game.

[00:12:20] Scott Maderer: Would we stop looking at Our faith is what we do on Sunday af morning.

[00:12:27] And the rest of our life is completely separate from it. But look at our workplace as actually an extension of that, that Sunday morning experience in a real way. A hundred percent. So when you think about let's shift gears a little bit and talk, you just mentioned that men aren't equipped to.

[00:12:50] Understand how to be strong in their faith. And I think a lot of guys feel they feel alone, they feel [00:13:00] unequipped when it comes to self-awareness, self-understanding emotional intelligence, all of these other words we use to talk about it. That's just not something that men do, no, it's totally true. At least that's the message that society gives us. Men don't cry. Men don't show their emotions. Men don't, this men don't, that men don't. That. What do you share with men who are going through that feeling of I know I need to understand this. I know I need to get better in this area, and yet I feel completely

[00:13:30] Michael Jaquith: unequipped.

[00:13:32] I start with some real basics. Who are you? What are you, who's are you? Identity questions those, having that solid identity is what enables you to be a man. If you're drifting, if you don't know the answer to who you are, what you are, and who's you are, then you have no chance of standing up in the fire.

[00:13:49] Cuz the fire's gonna come, the wind's gonna blow, the storm's gonna come in. And if all you've got is sand you're done for, you gotta start with that rock. And honestly, right now a lot of that rock involves [00:14:00] understanding what a male is. And understanding what is masculinity and in what way can ma, can you be a strong man?

[00:14:07] That is dangerous in the sense that anything that's so strong, there's danger there, but controlled, or the word I like is a biblical word, meek. And how do we get there? Except by starting with our relationship with Christ and so much comes back to that. So much of the work I do comes back to understanding that identity peace specifically in Christ.

[00:14:26] Scott Maderer: So what does that look like for somebody who's working with you, or for somebody who comes to you? I, you mentioned asking those questions, but go a little deeper with that. What does that actually look for somebody?

[00:14:38] Michael Jaquith: Very commonly, a lot of us have a really negative self-talk voice that's going on.

[00:14:42] A lot of us are really brutal to ourselves in our head. In fact, I oftentimes joke around that if we were to say out loud the things that we say to ourselves in our head, we would be taken to jail for the way that we speak to, especially if it was to a child like you would just never do that. But we do that.

[00:14:57] We do that to ourselves and our head. [00:15:00] And so the first thing I do is I say, do you realize. That our Lord is crying every time he looks at how you're treating one of his children inside your own head. And so we get into it what's behind this native self-talk? What are the doubts? What are the fears?

[00:15:11] What are the things that you as a man are doing that's blocking Christ from fully coming and being present with you in that particular area of your life in that particular way? And let's get, I'll throw us a couple examples out there. A lot of guys right now are really struggling with this idea that I'm a failure.

[00:15:24] A lot of guys start with the idea that I'm not enough. There's one guy I'm helping right now, and he's trying to change jobs and his, he has the I'm a failure buried in there, really strong. And as he sold himself I we're talking about what he does. I'm like, dude, you're amazing. You do all that stuff by yourself.

[00:15:40] It's five people's jobs. Everyone wanna hire you. But he had so bought the lie that he was the failure, and he had so sold his heart on that he couldn't even imagine applying to anything else cuz he thought it was so worthless. And so going in there through prayer, through just exploring the thoughts, where are those thoughts coming from?

[00:15:58] Why do you think you're a failure? Who told you [00:16:00] that in life? What was going on in that situation? Why are you still telling yourself that now? What's another way to look at it? How would Christ look at it? Like these sort of questions just prying and digging to unearth that thought. Put a different one in its place.

[00:16:11] Scott Maderer: Yeah. I actually had the experience of talking to a group of about 500 entrepreneurs who were all of them had a, anywhere from one to 5 million a year. Business. Yeah. All of them were doing quite well in, in any sort of quote, objective measure of what it means to be quite well to do well successful business.

[00:16:36] And I asked that question. I said, how many of you have a voice that talks to you in some way, shape, or form inside your head? Every single day everybody's hand went up and I said, now, if that voice is nice, keep your hand up. And every hand went down. Yep. And yet again, objectively, All quote, successful men in some sort of criteria.

[00:16:59] [00:17:00] Now, again, we get into what is success really and what does that define? That's all another conversation. But what I'm talking about is they would not be people that you would expect to have that sort of mindset problem going on, and yet here they were. With that same mindset that you're talking about, but

[00:17:18] Michael Jaquith: this at every level.

[00:17:18] I remember 2008 when we had the big market adjustment, the number of billionaires that lost a third, whatever, their multi-billions of dollars and we're still billionaires, committ a suicide about how much money they'd lost. And that's not about the money at that point, that's about what's going on inside their head.

[00:17:32] Scott Maderer: Yeah. It's not the, it's not the number that's actually. Important in that case when when you're working with folks on things like success how do you approach that understanding of what success

[00:17:48] Michael Jaquith: is? I think there's two different two different lenses here. I think number one, baked into every human heart, there's a calling from God.

[00:17:56] That you is what you're meant to do. And when you are on that path, when [00:18:00] you're pursuing that calling, there's a piece of you that lights up. This has never failed, that. When I get a guy to actually dig for it, give himself permission, maybe to dream about it again, he'll find it. And if he's on the path, not there yet, on the path towards that.

[00:18:13] He starts lighting up and that you can see it in their face. There's a smile. It comes out every time. It's so beautiful. But second off, I really think that we have such a great model set out in the Bible, and if you just pursue the Bible puts out a lot of basics over how to live your life with success.

[00:18:28] And when you're on that path, it doesn't have to be tons of money, but it has to be consistent with biblical principles. What is it in you that lights up to follow it? Yeah. So I've got a few questions that I like to ask everybody, but before I go there, is there anything else about the work you do the, what you've discovered in working with these guys that you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:18:52] One more thing I wanna throw out there. I know this just hit me just now. I have a there's a cycle I call the shame cycle. And this takes place in all of us. And I think this is really [00:19:00] critical cause we've got to start naming this. And the shame cycle works like this. Let's pretend I struggle with overeating.

[00:19:06] Okay, so maybe I overeat a whole ton of food cuz I'm feeling bad. I eat the self-talk ramps up, and I launch into this shame. Oh, I'm the worst person ever. I'm so horrible. I feel so bad. The shame ramps up and ramps up. What do I do? There's only one thing I know that makes me feel better.

[00:19:19] I go back and make myself another brownie. Eat that one. Oh my gosh, you're not the worst ever. And the shames I go, ramps up even higher. What do I do? I go back and get a bowl of ice cream. Whatever it is, whether it's pornography, whether it's alcohol, whatever it is, when we get stuck in the shame cycle, it is vicious.

[00:19:33] And I think a lot of guys have this notion that you can just wipe knuckle your way outta the shame cycle and that never, you can never out wrestle. That piece of you is way too desperate. The solution's gotta love yourself out of that shame cycle, and that's hard.

[00:19:43] Scott Maderer: And that's actually.

[00:19:46] Probably that root of that shame cycle is that lack of self-evaluation and self Absolutely. Self love. Yeah. And a lot of times, and I think it's true cuz you talked about earlier when you were talking about the [00:20:00] limiting beliefs or that feeling of I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm a failure.

[00:20:04] A lot of times those voices come to us from things that we were told as children from things important people in our lives part. They're not even our voice per se, and yet they're still playing that script out in our life. Have you seen It's so true. So true. So let me ask you this.

[00:20:23] My, my brand has inspired stewardship and I run things through that lens of stewardship, and yet, Stewardship is one of those words that everybody uses it not everybody, a lot of people use it, but it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. When you hear the word stewardship, what does it mean to you and what has that understanding meant for your life?

[00:20:44] Michael Jaquith: When I hear Steward, the first thing that pops to my mind is responsibility and the word entrusted. And I look at it this way. God has given me responsibility for a lot. He's entrusted me with a lot. He has made me the steward of this household. I live in the steward of my [00:21:00] marriage, the steward of the people he's faced in my lives to help.

[00:21:03] And what that really means. There's a responsibility there. And it's an encouraging thing. The proper masculine way to view a big job that's just really scary and daunting. Job is with excitement to say, woo, I'm worth enough that God trusted me with this. And when we look at it that way, that God has said, you will be the steward of this.

[00:21:21] A, it's exciting. But B, we know that responsibility is there. We know the parable of the talents that if we don't invest the talents that we've been entrusted with, if we don't care for those that have been given to us, There will be a time of reckoning and honestly, what happened to the third guy who didn't take care of that talent?

[00:21:36] That's a rough gig. I don't want that.

[00:21:39] Scott Maderer: So let me ask you this. This is my favorite question. I love asking this one and yet I've been told by some ghost guests that it's their least favorite question. So we'll see how you feel about it. Imagine for a minute I could invent this magic machine and I could pluck you from the chair where you are today, and I could transport you into the future, maybe a hundred fifty, [00:22:00] two hundred fifty years.

[00:22:01] And through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life, see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left behind. What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

[00:22:13] Michael Jaquith: I want my children to grow up in a different life than I grew up in. This is a very powerful one for me.

[00:22:18] It's a very powerful dream that motivates a lot of what I do. I came from a very broken beginning and a lot of abuse, a lot of bad stuff that happened, and I do believe there's such a thing as generational sin. There's such a thing as generational troubles and problems caught, which you want to. It's very clear that things seem to go in generations that I would love to see that I have created a world, at least for my own children, Maybe even if I'm asking for a little extra for those that I've loved and touched in the world where their lives have been changed forever from what it was before.

[00:22:45] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next? What's on the roadmap for the rest of this year? As we're about halfway through 2023? What's on the roadmap?

[00:22:55] Michael Jaquith: I'm always coming up with new programs. I'm really feeling a call from God right now to do a lot of work with [00:23:00] marriage. And I've been done some work with addictions, some work with pornography.

[00:23:03] And lately, gosh, this has been a place in my heart that I think marriages are really struggling. And I think one of the big reasons why marriages are really struggling is cuz men dunno how to be men. And let me start with myself. I think it's only recently and me, I'm starting to learn what it is to be a real man.

[00:23:16] Like it's one thing to say you gotta show your feelings, and that is part of being a real man. It's another thing to ground yourself to have the rock leg stability that your wife can lean in and depend on trust, and that you can be able to absorb her anger without becoming angry yourself. That you're able to hold up a different standard for yourself and say, just cuz my wife gets angry doesn't mean I'm allowed to get angry.

[00:23:36] And there's this growth that I think men need to do right now because if we lose marriage as an institution, We lose the family. If we lose the family. We are in the world's in a real restaurant. At that point.

[00:23:55] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Michael over on his website at Catholic [00:24:00] Life Coach for men.com. Of course. I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well. Michael, is there anything else you'd like to share with the

[00:24:07] Michael Jaquith: listener? I would invite you if you're listening and if you have troubles to really take action, it's, I sat for years on the other end of the speaker where I just listened and I said, yep, that sounds good.

[00:24:19] That sounds good, but I'm fine. But I'm fine. And the truth is, I wasn't. And what? Find someone, reach out, take action. These days, most therapists, most coaches, whoever you're dealing with, can generally get an hour for free. And so if all you do is just go from coach to coach and get one hour free, your life will still change.

[00:24:35] So do something. Get out there and you might just surprise yourself with how much better it can be and that one thing you think is stuck and unfixable might be that God has a plan to fix that.

[00:24:49] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but [00:25:00] act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes.

[00:25:15] Rate all one word. iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review, and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world.