Episode 851 Impact the World - Interview with Mark Herschberg author of The Career Toolkit – Part 4
[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 850, one of the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:00:07] Mark Herschberg: [00:00:07] I'm Mark Hirschberg. I encourage you to invest in yourself, your organization and others around you to positively impact the world by using your time and your talent to make this world a better place. Having the skills to succeed in your career.
[00:00:22] Your business is key. One way to do this is to listen to the inspired stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Mader. For example, you ever talked to mutual funds. People probably have, at some point you see there's this multi page list of tiny font and talks about how you can lose money with this. And this is secured or not secured and all these little details.
[00:00:50] And the reason is because years ago there were some unscrupulous people who ripped off widows and orphans who used to say, Oh, this is going to make you money. I guarantee it.
[00:01:00] [00:01:00] Scott Maderer: [00:01:00] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the inspired stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent and your treasures for your true calling and the inspired stewardship podcast.
[00:01:17] Go learn to invest in yourself, invest in others and develop your influence so that you. Can impact the world.
[00:01:26]In today's interview with Mark Hirschberg, Mark shares with you, why ethics are important to the impact you make. Mark also share some of the principles he believes are the key to really making an impact on the world. And Mark also talks with you about the impact and legacy that he hopes he leaves in the world.
[00:01:46] One reason I like to bring you great interviews. Like the one you're going to hear today is because of the power. In learning from others. Another great way to learn from others is through reading books. But if you're like most people [00:02:00] today, you find it hard to find the time to sit down and read. And that's why today's podcast is brought to you by audible.
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[00:02:35] From tracking criminals and terrorists on the dark web to creating marketplaces and new authentication systems. Mark Hirschberg has spent his career launching and developing new ventures at startups and fortune five hundreds. And in academia. He helped us start the undergraduate practice opportunities program, dubbed MIT's career success accelerator, where he [00:03:00] teaches annually at MIT.
[00:03:01] He received a BS in physics, a BS in electrical engineering and computer science and a master's of engineering and electrical engineering and computer science focusing on cryptography. At Harvard business school, Mark helped create a platform use to teach finance at prominent business schools. He also worked with many nonprofits, including techie youth and plant a million corrals.
[00:03:26] He was one of the top right ballroom dancers in the country, and he now lives in New York city. Or he is known for his social gatherings, including his annual Halloween party, as well as diverse cufflink collection. Mark has also recently published a new book called the career toolkit, essential skills for success that no one taught you.
[00:03:46]So when people think about impacting the world about making a long-term difference maybe it's leaving a legacy and all of that we talked last week a little bit about ethics and how that fits into influence [00:04:00] and developing ourselves. I think there's also An impact lesson that comes out of ethical questions and ethical systems.
[00:04:07]What would you say is important about understanding ethics when it comes to making an impact?
[00:04:13] Mark Herschberg: [00:04:13] It's understanding those secondary effects. It's understanding not just how this is going to impact me or the company or this product, how it's going to impact the customer, the supplier. The world, the person who buys it second hand, the person who throws this out and tosses it away, it's understanding the full impact of what we do.
[00:04:38] It's even understanding how by doing this, I am setting a precedent or example for others to follow. And what will that mean down the road?
[00:04:49] Scott Maderer: [00:04:49] And I think, last week we also talked about negotiations and you mentioned how sometimes when people come into a negotiation and it's a one-off. No, a single transaction kind of relationship [00:05:00] back to the used car salesman.
[00:05:01]We think about that and I think one of the reasons that people will behave badly is because they are thinking about that as a one-off transactional here and now, but even in a one-off transaction, it still creates reputation. It still creates stories. And still, if I walk out of the car, Dealership.
[00:05:23] And I feel like I was ripped off, even if I wasn't. I just feel like I was, what's the story I tell my friends, how does that impact your business? How does that impact as well? What does that cause us to think about, how should we be thinking differently, even when we're coming into those single one-off kinds of things to help make a bigger impact for ourselves as business owners and individuals.
[00:05:46] Mark Herschberg: [00:05:46] Yeah. It, even the fact that I picked the used car example and that we all know, okay, the used car sales, when we know that true, there are good, honest, used car salesman out there. But we think about the negative because they have [00:06:00] built up such a reputation, even if they were in the minority that we now have that impact, it impacts the good ones.
[00:06:06] It impacts the ones who are sincere. It makes us trust them less. And so we do need to think about that larger impact. We need individuals, organizations, industries, groups of all sorts to say, we need to set some standards and guidelines. And I know people, especially small business owners often talk about there's way too many regulations we're over-regulated in this country.
[00:06:33] But really every regulation we have is because at one point, someone said I feel comfortable doing this and they went further than most of society accepted. If, for example, you ever buy stocks or mutual funds and I'm guessing most people probably have. At some point, you see there's this multi page list of tiny font and talks about, how you can lose money with this.
[00:06:58] And this is secured or not [00:07:00] secured and all these little details. And the reason is because years ago there were some unscrupulous people who ripped off widows and orphans who used to say, Oh, this is going to make you money. I guarantee it. And people believe them and I lost money. So now they said, you know what?
[00:07:15] There's going to be someone, not most people, but there's going to be a few people out there who go and say, Oh, I promise you this will make money. Okay, how do we stop that? We have to make sure everyone very explicitly says, I cannot promise you, you will make money. You might lose money. And now all of us, because of just a handful of bad apples, have to now go through pages and pages of fine print and say, yep.
[00:07:37] Okay. I understand I can lose money. And so each of these regulations are because we do come from different backgrounds. We do draw the line differently and society had to say, Okay, this is confusing. And some of you are going too far. So we have to put a clear line for everyone and really society steps in when no one else does [00:08:00] right.
[00:08:00] Society. Meaning regulators. If we, as an industry can set standards and guidelines society doesn't have to. So try to be proactive, especially if you want to minimize more regulations. Try to do it yourself. And that means not you as an individual, but you get a coalition of people and you say, these are our standards.
[00:08:22] That's one less thing that regulators have to do
[00:08:25] Scott Maderer: [00:08:25] well. And I think it's important to recognize because we talk a lot of times about the government and we talk a lot about companies and we talk a lot about, we use these terms like that as if a corporation is this monolithic, creature well, Companies are made up of people.
[00:08:44] Governments are made up of people, bureaucracies are made up of people. And oftentimes people trying to do the best they can in a bad situation, even. And so it is recognizing that. It's out of our individual [00:09:00] choices that come those larger choices too. It, we talked about that last week in terms too, of the, sometimes there's that moment of not, no, I cannot do this.
[00:09:10] I can't participate. I'm going to say no. So how does that play out too, with the skills that you're talking about? Recognizing that. W, we're part of the solution. We're part of the problem. We're part of the monolith that is out there. There,
[00:09:25]Mark Herschberg: [00:09:25] The, as you were saying, that kind of reminded me of that childhood game with the Weegee board, where everyone put their finger on it and the letter it would move to.
[00:09:35]It wasn't you, it wasn't me. It was all of us together. The net effect of us moving. And we have to recognize where we're part of that system. There's a great quote. And unfortunately I forget who gave it, but the quote is basically in an avalanche, every snowflake, pleads innocent. And it really is.
[00:09:59] It's that [00:10:00] net effect that you're talking about. And we have to be aware of that. We have to be aware of I, wasn't the one who did this, it wasn't me. But it was a tiny bit of me. It was me with everyone. No one else who did this. And we have to recognize how we are part of these larger organizations.
[00:10:17] I don't mean necessarily formal ones of companies, just larger have networks and groups of people. And sometimes even unintentionally, in that Weegee board, you wind up on a letter, no one SRE intended that letter, but somehow together, unintentionally, this is where you wound up. And this is what happens with us in groups.
[00:10:34] We didn't plan for it to work out exactly like this. No one necessarily wanted it. No one could've predicted it, but here we are. And as part of this community, whether I am officially, I stepped up and I'm part of this club or just, I am part of this community because here I am, we have to take some responsibility.
[00:10:53]Scott Maderer: [00:10:53] And again, that gets back to that agency question. Again I used to tell when I was in senior management, I had other [00:11:00] managers that, you know, and leaders that reported to me, and one of the things I used to tell them, they would come in and they were complaining about an employee, an employee doing something.
[00:11:09] And I used to say it so much that it almost got to be a joke where people would come in and say it because they knew I was going to say it to them, which is. Yeah, nobody shows up at work on Monday going boy, I really hope I suck at my job this week. It just doesn't happen. So what is it that's going on?
[00:11:27] That's causing them to fail. Because it's usually not, that they're deliberately setting out to fail. I guess that maybe exists somewhere, but I would say it's probably pretty dang rare in the real truth. At least in most corporate kinds of situations or, high, higher jobs.
[00:11:43]If that makes sense, are people further along in their career? So I think that plays out as well. Go ahead.
[00:11:49] Mark Herschberg: [00:11:49] This is a really important point. And in the management chapter, I talk about retrospectives now, retrospective, if you don't know the term, it's the more modern term for a post-mortem. [00:12:00] And in fact, we companies figured out is let's not wait until the end of the project after it failed to figure out what's working and what isn't let's do check-ins regularly.
[00:12:08] And
[00:12:09] Scott Maderer: [00:12:09] after actions and my companies
[00:12:11] Mark Herschberg: [00:12:11] say after action, whereas a term that came from the military. So let's do these regular retrospectives and norm Kurth, who is one of the leaders of the retrospective movement. He created what he calls a prime directive. I'm not gonna be able to quote it exactly off the top of my head, but the concept is the following.
[00:12:30] As you begin the retrospective, you say, we all agree that everyone here did the best that they could given what they knew at the time. And that it a failures and the mistakes weren't because to your point, someone showed up and said, I want to do a crappy job today. We all tried our best. And we're all going to recognize that and learn how sometimes the situation or misunderstanding may have led to this problem.
[00:12:58] And when you go in with that [00:13:00] attitude, when you say, look, we recognize you tried, you did your best. I did my best. We did our best. We start to say, what can we do to do better, as opposed to. Oh you screwed this up. You didn't get this to me on time. It's your fault because then no, one's going to want to admit to problems or mistakes, and we're never going to find what that root causes.
[00:13:22] Scott Maderer: [00:13:22] So as we get to the end of our time together, I want to transition to some of the, what I jokingly always tell people are the easy questions because they're not, which is if you get to a period and let's say you could magically travel into the far future a hundred years, 150 years in the future, and you could look back on your life.
[00:13:43] What impact do you hope that this book, the other work you've done, what impact do you hope you leave behind as a legacy?
[00:13:53] Mark Herschberg: [00:13:53] I certainly hope I've had a wonderful family far into the future, but in terms of impact [00:14:00] outside of that, I hope I will have helped as many people as possible. With their professional efficacy, with their ability to be successful in whatever path they choose and to make the most out of the talents that they have.
[00:14:14] And at the same time, I hope I have helped make the world a more ethical place, a more responsible place and a place where we can all feel proud.
[00:14:26] Scott Maderer: [00:14:26] So what's coming up next for you, as you continue on this journey yourself to, figuring out your career plan and continuing to move, it's changed over the years and making an impact what's coming down the pike for you?
[00:14:38]Mark Herschberg: [00:14:38] Hopefully a family. That's definitely something I want to focus more on. But also continuing to do the work that I do with mostly startup companies, continuing to act as a CTO, COO build organizations, create products that help make the world better. And then in parallel, continue the work. I do teach at universities [00:15:00] as well as what's coming out of the book and helping people to learn and be more effective in their careers.
[00:15:06] And then hopefully doing a little more work with corporations as they try to develop programs, to teach these skills and help their employees become more effective and just helping both the employee and the company as a whole do better.
[00:15:22] Scott Maderer: [00:15:22] You can follow Mark on Twitter under career tool, kit, BK for book, or find him on his website@thecareertoolkitbook.com.
[00:15:34] He's also active on LinkedIn as at Hershey and on Facebook at the career toolkit book. I'll have links to all of this over in the show notes as well. Mark, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
[00:15:49] Mark Herschberg: [00:15:49] These are skills that don't simply help you. They can help everyone in your organization.
[00:15:56] And the more others you work with, whether they are your [00:16:00] peers or whether they are your subordinates and your business, the more effective they can be in these skills, the more effective your organization will be. And turns out as you want to learn these skills, whether it's developing your understanding of ethics and where your lines are, or developing your networking negotiation, leadership skills, these are best learned with other people.
[00:16:23] And so don't take this on alone. Create peer learning groups. This is how business schools teach this. Create these peer learning groups and work out together. There's actually a free download on the resources page that teaches you how you can build these organizations within your own company. You can use my book, you can use other books.
[00:16:42] This is not just a ploy to sell my books. This is a technique that you can use to improve, and you can take whatever content you want, but I really encourage you to do it with others because that's the best way to learn these skills.
[00:16:53]Scott Maderer: [00:16:53] thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and [00:17:00] listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoy this episode. Please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/itunes rate.
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