Episode 1678: Interview with John Molineux About His Mission to End Human Trafficking

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Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 1,678 of the Inspired Stewardship podcast

John Molineux: I'm John Molineux, and I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talents, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to recognize that we exist to do good is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the Inspired Stewardship podcast, with my friend Scott Maderer.

And I, I think of it like God, God just wants to give us good things. He wants you to have toys and TV and whatever, you know, good food and, and a, a nice house. And he's... But there's things that are much better than, than a nice ca- car, a nice house. And even better is actually to be able to participate in, in his love and to be a part of that love that, that

Scott Maderer: [00:01:00] Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world

In today's podcast episode, I interview John Molinaro. I ask John about how he has led a unique approach to anti-human trafficking. I also ask John about why this is a message of community and faith, and John also shares with you why this mission is far beyond anything he could ever do without God. I have a great book that's been out for a while now called Inspired Living: Assemble the Puzzle of Your Calling by [00:02:00] Mastering Your Time, Your Talent, and Your Treasures.

You can find out more about that book over at inspiredlivingbook.com. It'll take you to a page where there's information, and you can sign up to get some mailings about it, as well as purchase a copy there. I'd love to see you get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. John is the CEO of Love Justice International, leading anti-trafficking operations across more than 20 countries.

Since first traveling to Nepal in 2002, he has spent the majority of his adult life working internationally, building teams that have intercepted tens of thousands of people at high-risk transit points and expanding programs that push the frontier of impact per dollar in the anti-trafficking sector.

With over two decades of experience launching and scaling field operations, John brings a blend of strategic clarity, systems thinking, and philosophical rigor to his leadership. He works closely with [00:03:00] global partners, data teams, and program innovators to design models that can scale sustainably while honoring the dignity and agency of the people Love Justice serves.

John is also a writer, educator, and lifelong student of philosophy. His work is shaped by a commitment to truth, human flourishing, and the integration of faith and action. He and his wife, Akeesha, who is from Nepal, are raising their two sons while continuing to build and strengthen Love Justice global presence from their home in South Africa.

Their family plans to continue to live there overseas as part of their long-term calling to G- serve God's kingdom. Welcome to the show, John.

John Molineux: Thank you, Scott. G- glad to be here.

Scott Maderer: So before we roll into things, I want to give people a heads-up in case they suddenly hear, uh, an announcement or a sound, uh, in the background.

We'll stop when we get there and we'll explain it. I just want to warn people so if, if we suddenly get interrupted and go a different way, there's a reason for it. [00:04:00] It's not just because... It's not that John forgot to turn Siri off on his phone. That's not what's going on. So give people a heads up.

But as we were talking this morning, you know, I shared a lot of the work that you're doing in the intro around Love Justice International you know, anti-trafficking operations all of the work that y'all are doing. But at the same time, I always think of bios and intros as just they're just a snapshot.

Uh, they never really talk about the journey and how we got to the point where we are. So would you take us back in time a little bit and share a little bit about your journey and your path, and why is this the work that you feel called to do?

John Molineux: Yeah. I, 20 years ago I moved to Nepal and ended up founding Love Justice International.

We began as Tiny Hands International. And [00:05:00] you know, Jesus says, wh- whatever you'd or whoever leaves home or, or family or fields for the sake of gosp- of the gospel will not fail to receive 100 times what he left in this life and the next, and along with it, persecutions. And, uh- Yeah ... we have, I have very much found God, God to be distinctly faithful to that promise.

That is, that is what I have found. So the, uh, the sort of short version, y- you know, we sh- I started out personally doing relational ministry with, uh, street kids in broken Nepali and English and gestures. And- BEPs intercepted in Makaka, Uganda. Yeah, I left my Siri on again.

Scott Maderer: There's the announcement we were talking about.

So- Yeah ... real quick tell people what that interruption was in case it comes again.

John Molineux: Yeah. We, we just got this installed in our office. It, it the, Love Justice intercepts between 50 and 100, uh, potential victims of trafficking each day, and we have [00:06:00] these announcements that go off on, on the Alexa devices that announce those intercepts in real time.

So it, it's just designed to create a sense of, of the sacred impact that we get to be a part of. You know, I remember learning about human trafficking in 2004, having my heart broken, learning about different strategies, finding the, the strategy transit monitoring, striving for about a year or two to, to get something started, and then g- walking into this little internet cafe where I would check my email and, and seeing this, the email that says, "We've intercepted, intercepted our first potential victim of human trafficking," and feeling this distinct sense of that's the most important thing I've been a part of, mm-hmm. And so we, you can never- I don't have the capacity to feel what that means, what that kind of i- impact means for, you know, every time that this thing goes off. But we always wanna try to remind ourselves that, you know, every person that is more precious in God's sight than the person we love most, you know?

And, and, uh, so we, we [00:07:00] just wanna try to keep that, the sacredness of that impact, uh, before us. So-

Scott Maderer: Well-

John Molineux: So as I was sharing my journey... Oh, should I go, should I keep going?

Scott Maderer: Well, one, one quick thing before you go back there. Yes. Yeah. I think that one of the things that is important to, to say is, you know, yes, that's an announcement about an intercept event.

That's an announcement about an event in air quotes. But the truth is that those events, and we'll talk more about this as we go forward, have ripples that roll out, you know, because it's not just that person that's affected. Yeah. It's y'all, yes, but it's also can be family- Two people have been intercepted in the Academy gambit

friends, you know, other people in the world as well. You know, even total strangers that get affected. And so I think it it's great that y'all have something to help you remember, oh, wow, this little pebble, you know, this one event, but that's actually ripples- Yeah ... that roll out into the world. So-

John Molineux: Yeah

Scott Maderer: yeah. Take us back to your story.

John Molineux: Yeah. So, um, [00:08:00] yeah, I, I, I moved to Nepal and I started Love Justice, and I was doing relational ministry and, and just had this sense of, of, uh, you know, our, our mission w- for many years was sharing the love of Christ by fighting the world's greatest injustices, and we just wanted to figure out what was needed the most.

What... A- and so we were working with street children. We had h- homes for orphaned children. Um, uh, we were giving tailoring training to poor women in, in rural Nepal. And I started learning about human trafficking. A- and, uh, yeah, that's when we started this work that we do called transit monitoring, where we intercept potential victims of human trafficking.

And, uh we've now intercepted over 100,000 potential victims to prevent them from being trafficked and but it, it, the journey was a journey of making a lot of mistakes, falling into a lot of, of pits a- coming to discover how rare and difficult it is to find opportunities to make a life-changing impact.

I used to think those were really [00:09:00] common, but living in Nepal for 20 years and having a team of more than 200 people whose job is to try to find those opportunities, uh, it is hard. They're rare.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

John Molineux: Uh, and we have this value now, treasure impact opportunities. You know, like, w- those v- those opportunities to make a, a life-changing impact are w- just precious.

They're, they're worth more than gold. Um, and so but it was a journey of, of you know, I talked about the blessing and the persecution. It, it was hard. We, we had a lot of hardships we went through. I would describe some of it as, as traumatic. Um, and but the blessing that it's been, even in this life it has been far, far outweighed just to be able to work in a community of like-minded believers with, you know, dedicated to such a important mission and such a great such a great God, and to have, be able to have s- be a part of such impact has been amazing.

So, uh, we, we have now, we're now in 21 countries around the world, and as our work has spread, uh, we kind of realized Nepal was not the most reasonable place for us to be based. And [00:10:00] so I have, about a year ago, moved to South Africa, where-

Our program headquarters is today.

Scott Maderer: So why did you start in Nepal?

Why was that the first place you were drawn to?

John Molineux: I, um, went to Taylor University. After graduation, I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Couldn't imagine, couldn't really think of much of anything that didn't- So,

Scott Maderer: so you, you were a normal graduate. Got it.

John Molineux: Yeah. Couldn't think of anything that didn't fill me with a sense of dread.

And but, uh, four other guys had... who had planned a trip to Nepal, I was like a f- late fifth wheel addition to the trip. And- A 17-year-old girl was intercepted in Wakaka, Uganda ... we ended up working with street kids, had our hearts broken by what we learned, and, and it was kind of out of that initial trip that, that it was actually two years after that initial trip that, um, one of my friends who'd been involved in starting a children's home, and he was going back to see this home.

I got a one-way ticket thinking I'd be home by Christmas. When I got back and I saw the contrast between those [00:11:00] street kids that we had worked with before, some had died, many had gone from bad to worse on the one hand, and on the other hand, kids in this home so thriving, full of life and joy, that contrast made me stay.

And I, basically, I, I lived, I've lived, lived in Nepal for the, the next 20 years.

Scott Maderer: Uh, you mentioned now that, you know, you're in a lot of countries, and that's something that I wanna ask about as well, 'cause I think a lot of times when it comes to, you know, human trafficking, working with people in poverty, these kinds of things, especially here in America everyone kind of thinks of it as something that happens somewhere else And yet again, this is something that can happen a, There, there are impacts to this all over the world , you know? It's not, uh... You know, you look at, in the US they say that like, when the Super Bowl happens human trafficking numbers spike around it and that kind of thing. So obviously we're having an [00:12:00] impact as well. What would you say to the folk that, the folks that think of this as, you know, just something that happens somewhere else to someone else kind of thing?

John Molineux: Yeah. Well, I mean, and, and it feels like it's somebody else's problem, you know? Like- Yeah ... like, uh, somebody else should be responsible for it. Jesus said- Who should do

Scott Maderer: that? Someone.

John Molineux: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

John Molineux: Yeah. Jesus said, "Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me." And that is a, you know... And then after that, he, and he, he talks about separating the sheep and the goats on the basis of, of that.

And so it's our problem, you know? It, it, he made it our problem and, and that's not a problem, it's a blessing to be a part of, because I would say I have experienced this a little bit. I'm fully convinced that, like, to make a significant impact in somebody's lives, in somebody's life, is more pleasurable and more enjoyable than [00:13:00] anything money can buy.

I, I, I really believe that. Like, uh yeah, the the things that, that we might be tempted by, I think if we see them from, you know, Jesus went, "It's more blessed to give than receive," I really believe that. Like, the the things that we would be tempted by when we see them in the, in the proper light are empty, and the things that, that seem like, seem hard and heavy God is a father who, he knows how to give an egg and not a scorpion.

You know, he, he wants to bless us, and some of the things that he calls us to that seem so hard that's, was my experience with leaving home for the sake of God. It really was a blessing. It really wa- Even though at the ti- if I would've thought about it before that CPE is accepted in Wakati Uganda

I would've been, I would've been I would, I would've been full of a sense of dread and felt like it was really scary. And, and I somehow just coming to believe in God's goodness and, and His love yeah, h- that's been, that's been a helpful journey for me to help me believe in, in His goodness, [00:14:00] and to believe about those other sc- all the other scary promises where God asks us to give up something in exchange for something.

You know, like, that what if they're true? And I, I'm starting to believe that they are.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. I always tell people that following God is, is a tremendous gift and blessing and privilege, but Jesus has a really bad marketing plan, you know? In terms of, you know, you read the slogans and you're like, "Really?"

You know? Yeah. Pick up your cross and follow me, you know? You- Yeah ... you know, these, it's like, eh, uh, I'm not, eh, it's not, it's not marketing, you know? It's not marketed very well. But as you said, when you lean into it- the relationships and the blessings that show up are worth so much more

John Molineux: Yeah. I had I had this experience when I was, um Uh, seven maybe.

I don't know how old I was, but when I was, when I was young of Christmas Eve. I'm in a seven-year-old heaven of love and [00:15:00] Christmas magic mindset, thinking about presents, oh, you know, like, and, and driving home in the snow, saw a homeless man walking alone in the snow, and it really... Something about the juxtaposition of that injustice into my little kid's m- m- world of magic, Christmas love, just w- was really heartbreaking for me.

And I w- I remember going home and just weeping and asking God to take something away from me, you know, to, to help this man. And a- and in some ways, I think God did. I, I think in some ways, like, God kind of answered that prayer- The 16-year-old organs intercepted in Wakati, Uganda ... and, and gave me, like, a little bit of a s- of a broken heart for injustice, which is it's not...

I don't quite have the right words to say, but I, but I want to say it's something like a broke- when you f- when you really face up to injustice and you weep and you let it break your heart, it's better than pleasure.

It's... It really is and, and in, [00:16:00] in the Beatitudes, Jesus says, "Blessed are those who weep."

You know, there's a, So it's definitely just that Which again,

Scott Maderer: to us is like- Right ... "Wait, that doesn't make sense." You know? Yeah. Yeah,

John Molineux: that's... And I, I think of it like God, God just wants to give us good things. He wants you to have toys and TV and-

Scott Maderer: Sure ...

John Molineux: whatever, you know, good food and, and a a nice hou- And he's...

But there's things that are much better than, than a nice ca- car, a nice house, and even better is actually to be able to participate in, in His love and to be a part of that love that, that... And I, I... What I fear and what we... The highest of all is to actually have the love that made Jesus die on the cross.

And, and, and even yeah. It, I'm on a journey learning about this myself, just marveling, you know as I read through the Gospels just at Jesus and, and who He is, but-

Scott Maderer: Talk a little bit about how all of this work has affected your faith and your understanding of, of the Gospel.

John Molineux: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean, is m- so I- when I was, [00:17:00] uh...

I grew up Catholic. When I was 18 I went for a walk and said, "God, use my life however you want." And a couple weeks later, I, a friend brought me to church and I became Christian. Uh, that, I would end up transferring to Taylor University where I had a really good experience. I studied business and Bible, but was just discipled and learned and kind of just fell in love with Jesus.

And, um, and then definitely all of that is what led me to Nepal and during, You know, I had a, I had s- several years, five to 10 years, where I was mostly living by myself. And but just times that I was, that I spent a lot of time reading the Scriptures and just really reading the, the Bible over and over.

And, and all of that just really- shaped who I was and, and my life and Love Justice. I mean, Love Justice and who we are, our values, our, what we're doing is very much has come out of the scriptures, you know, from the fact that Jesus says whatever you do for the least of these, and then therefore, [00:18:00] okay, who are the least of these?

What are the, what are the world's greatest injustices? How... And then just the l- the love for the poor that is so so obvious in the scriptures, and the fact that like impact is what really matters because of, because, you know, l- love cares about impact. Because if it was my loved one, that's all I would care about.

And so yeah, we, we have this calling. It our mission at Love Justice now is driving the downfall of slavery in the places it's most rampant. But on- A 17-year-old boy was intercepted in Wakaka, Uganda Underneath that is our calling, which is helping the church share the love of Christ by bringing justice for the least of these.

Um, and we, we feel like it, it is our mission to call the church to love justice that, and that God will unleash breakthrough blessing for the church when we reach the neediest with effective love and action [00:19:00]

Scott Maderer: You know, when it comes to the work you do around trafficking I think again, people kind of have images that come to mind you know, when, when you hear trafficking and you hear fighting trafficking or stopping this and, and, you know the messages that are playing in the background.

What's different about the way that y'all approach it than just the typical, I, I guess the picture that we have of, you know, rescue, aftercare, you know, these sorts of images that seem to be the, the way that it's portrayed and I know the way y'all approach it is a little different. What's different about the way y'all approach things?

John Molineux: Yeah. So you could divide the strategies that are used to fight trafficking into the post-trafficking strategies. Those are the ones you mentioned, that, you know, after someone has been trafficked, rescue, aftercare, um and that's tremendously important- Mm-hmm ... tangible work that has a real impact.

But of course, it would be far better to [00:20:00] prevent them, someone from being enslaved and abused in the first place. Um, but the prevention strategies that are typically used are awareness and job creation, and they don't necessarily have a tangible impact where you can point to an individual and say, "Here's someone who would've been trafficked."

Um, and some researchers have, has suggested they may not reduce how much trafficking is happening. But our... So the strategy we use is called transit monitoring, and it aims at the most strategic moment when a person is in the process of being trafficked but before they've been exploited. It has a tangible impact that prevents the enslavement of real individuals.

It's incredibly cost efficient. It costs $112 to, fully loaded, to intercept a person to prevent them from being trafficked, and because we intercept, uh, between 50 and 100 potential victims every day, we get a tremendous amount of data that helps us understand trafficking and trafficking networks, and that, that data doesn't necessarily exist at, anywhere else that we know of.

You know, we're, we're building one of the world's most comprehensive human trafficking databases.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. [00:21:00] And again, it's not... You know, to be clear to folks, it's not that rescue or aftercare isn't needed or isn't important. It's just y'all are kind of focused on the, the beginning end as opposed to the end, the, the, the end end.

That doesn't make sense, but, I think it makes sense. Um, so what, um, what drove you to focus there?

John Molineux: I mean, it was, it was in the early days, uh, when I, when we, when I learned about human trafficking, had my heart broken about it, just learning about different strategies that were being used. And, and I became convinced that, that was the most- Three babies intercepted in Wakaka, Uganda.

The the most effective way and, and the most... The word is impactful, you know? And, and the fact that I have become convinced that, that, that impact is rare and difficult and that it is something that we really should, as charity needs to strive to maximize impact. And so the fact that it sh- that it was the most impactful [00:22:00] strategy that we knew of is the reason that we chose transit monitoring.

Scott Maderer: When you hear the numbers that you're sharing, you know, 50 to 100 a day you know, ear- earlier you, you mentioned y'all have had over 100,000 intercepts Is that, uh when you started back in Nepal, and you were working with the street kids, is that the image you had in your head? Is that...

When did you realize that this was something that was really beyond what you could do or, or saw or envisioned?

John Molineux: Yeah. Oh, I had this moment early on when I was working with this a deaf street kid, and I said to myself, "If I don't help this kid, no one will."

And I felt God rebuke me and He was like, "No, you're not...

Y- your choice is not to be anyone's hero. I love this child more than you do. No sparrow falls outside my care, and I have the situation under control with or without you. Your choice is whether you want to be a part of what I want to, what I'm [00:23:00] doing." And so I almost want to say since that time, I don't know if there has really been a moment that was not where I was not stepping back and realizing that God is, that this is far beyond me you know?

That, like, I don't think this is is me. I have been one part of it and have been blessed to be a part of it. I don't know that I can say I've been particularly faithful with that. I think I've probably been faithful 1%, and that 1% of that I have been faithful, God has been 1000% faithful. And so there's so many people involved in this work.

Our donors who, who sacrifice. It's my job, you know. I'm just doing my job now is that our- 16-year-old boy was intercepted in Wakafa, Uganda Our donors, they're giving freely of what they don't have to give. They're sacrificing. And then we have these amazing frontline staff or monitors who, you know, daily stand sentinel against some of the, the frontlines of the world's greatest injustice, standing up to some of the most vicious criminal networks on behalf of some of the most vulnerable people in the world, and they are the, the heroes.

And we have [00:24:00] these subcommittees that overst- we actually work through local Christians. Local churches form subcommittees that oversee this, and those are volunteers that they too are sacrificing for this work. So it's all God orchestrating it, and I'm just this if anything, my role is I'm an awkward middleman who's, who's just blessed to be a part of it, I would say.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. So it, it, um, it, it is an interesting dichotomy sometimes because obviously the work of your organization and forming teams and leadership and all of these things are important. But like you were just saying, th- that feeling of or that realization of, "Wait a minute. God was operating here before we got here and will continue to operate long after I'm gone you know, what's my role to, to play in this?"

How, how has your approach to that... How, how has that informed the way [00:25:00] y'all work as an organization? And I, I'm talking internally here, uh, in terms of- Yeah ... the, the leadership, the structure, the decision-making, that kind of thing

John Molineux: Becau- part of, um, part of m- my learning was, you know, how many pitfalls there are, how many mistakes, you know, there are to make, how many ways there are to do harm, how rare the impact is, and eventually and, and how much better nationals are at everything than me.

Yeah. And, you know, like, a- and so I would just come in, create a mess. The right nationals- Two ladies intercepted in Wakaka, Uganda ... you know, they'll do that, you know? And, and I couldn't do that, you know? And, and so we have defined our core competency, what we do relative to our national partners, as searching out the people, places, and tools to maximize mission impact, and so that is what we're, what we as Love Justice International do.

And, uh, we, we take a a, we really seek to honor [00:26:00] our, you know, not to, you know, w- to honor our partners and to work with them and to serve them, to honor our, you know, and, and not s- you know. So I think it's a, it's a mindset that I think we've really had to instill in not having this like, uh, we're the, you know, the foreign, the foreign leaders are here or, you know, not, not having any of that mindset but to just serve and, and honor and realize how blessed we are to be able to be a part of, of it.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When, when I... And again, I've seen this with charity work in various areas where there's charity that comes in with the we're here to rescue mentality, and then there's charity that comes in with the idea of we're here to be with you and learn from you.

John Molineux: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: You know? And y- you know better than us what y- what really needed here.

John Molineux: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: Uh, you know, that humility and and I would s- I would say that in my experience at least, coming in with the [00:27:00] hu- humble attitude tends to have longer and more lasting impact than coming in with the rescuer mentality.

John Molineux: Yeah. I, I, I would say the rescue mentality that, that yeah. I fully agree with that.

We, we definitely w- when we started doing transit monitoring, we just told our, our staff, we actually found a church that, and, and they formed a subcommittee and they, they hired staff and we just said, "Intercept trafficking victims." And they figured out how to do it, and we just came in and said, "How do you do it?"

And, and wrote it down. You know, and we documented the strategy, and that became our first transit monitoring center. Now that is, that is kind of us, we have teams all over the world that we're asking, "How do you do it?" And learning from, and, and we're trying to facilitate for, you know, their ideas.

We're trying to broadcast the best ideas out. We're trying to have them field to field collaboration, have them teach each other how to work, and we're just w- we're just kind of in the middle trying to serve and connect [00:28:00] how we can.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. It's the, Yeah. The partnership is again, go back to what you were, we talked about at the very, very beginning.

I think it it's recognizing that God's kingdom is built in relationship, not transaction. Yeah. It's built, it's built by that moment that you have with that deaf child in Nepal. Yeah. You know, it's, it's built by relationship, not transaction.

John Molineux: And it's an upside-down kingdom.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

John Molineux: You know, the, the many are first who will last, and so we, we definitely have learned to think of our monitors as our betters.

You know, they are, they are doing things that we probably couldn't handle. And pr- maybe still better than them are the potential victims who are enduring and going through things and who are very close to God's heart because they're the least of these. You know, the... And so yeah, I, I would say just kinda the, the [00:29:00] teachings of Jesus, the, the way that he turns everything upside down has been fundamental for us in, in how we s- think and structure the organization.

Scott Maderer: The other idea that has bubbled up for me over the years and I'm just curious your take on it, uh, you know, one is the upside-down kingdom like you were just talking about. The other thing that I've, I've struggled with in, in my wrestling with, with the gospel and the, the teachings of Christ is I'm always drawn, like I think most of us are, into putting things into categories.

Something is good, something is bad. Something is up, something is down. Something is left, something is right. You know, whatever it is. Four queens just entered in Uganda Mobile Station, Uganda. And in my experience, a lot of times God challenges me to say, "No, it's not either/or, it's both/and." yeah. It's, there's more here than just putting things in boxes. Yeah. It it's richer than that. It's deeper than that. There's more here, and you don't even understand what it is. Yeah. How has that played out, that kind of [00:30:00] feeling of, of a both/and rather than an either/or?

John Molineux: You know, one thing that comes to mind there's, um, s- there are for example, like when you, when you...

A lot of the context in which we work, Are very culturally different. And maybe, like, corruption might be really common. And, and there might be some just little ways of doing things that, that we would definitely consider that as absolutely corrupt . And and we've kind of learned there was definitely some times when we, when we were very tempted be- between two paths.

That's definitely corruption. We need to just break, cut this person off and shut down this station. Or yes, that is, but that's so common culturally that we need to address it w- with some love and care and training, whatever. And, and and I think there's situations where we did, we took this path the correction, and the, you know, [00:31:00] thousands of people have been intercepted from stations that, that began in that way because we we de- dealt with it in that way.

And so I, I've just culture is, the cultural gap between... You know, there's a lot of situations where I would walk into a situation and be like, "Okay, definitely this is wrong, and this is what should happen." And probably you would agree with me, and probably all of our listeners would too. But then people maybe in Nepal would actually see that differently.

And I would be like, "Why is that?" You know? And, and often the, after, uh, I would explore a situation like that for a long time, I- A 17-year-old girl was intercepted in Uganda Mobile Station, Uganda ... I would find out that there was some explanation, some reality on the ground that I didn't know about, and they didn't know how to articulate, that actually made it make perfect sense.

Mm-hmm. Um, and so yeah, I, I've just, just learned a lot of hum- in working across cultures, a lot of humility is needed. There i- but there's also a lot of real corruption that, you know. So, so a lo- [00:32:00] a lot of discernment is needed. We've had to learn to, like, specialize in finding the right people and, um cause if you pick the right people, you don't even need to do, uh, you know, they, they almost don't even need the guidance from us, or not much of it.

But if you pick the wrong people, all of the best tools and guidance in the world, it won't work. Does nothing.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, it's not even a matter of is it right or is it wrong, as much as, you know, like you said, the discernment of, wait, what is really operating here? 'Cause I, again, I think about even changing culture and I'm gonna use my work of working in leadership development within a company.

And, you know, to change com- company culture, you didn't do it by coming in and going, "Well, everything y'all are doing is wrong. You're all stupid." You know? Yeah. You did it by coming in and listening and understanding and going, "Okay, so that's what's motivating this underlying decision. Now I get it. [00:33:00] Now we can talk about ways to operate maybe without making that choice."

You know? Now- Yeah ... now we can actually have an intelligent conversation.

John Molineux: Yeah. Yeah, a lot of listening and learning, and, and a lot of just staying in a conversation with a lot, with the, we have- Multi-year, we probably have a thousand overlapping multi-year dialectic conversations that are, that are honing us towards truth.

And but you have to start out by knowing, like, what we really know is very little.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

John Molineux: You know? That what we re- what we can know is very little. And, and it's, and it, we're probably wrong about some things

Scott Maderer: And, and again, it's going back to that humility you know, holding the humility of maybe you don't have all the answers and, you know, and maybe some of the answers you have are not even right.

Uh, what can we learn here? So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests. But before I do there, that, is there anything else [00:34:00] about the, the work that y'all are doing at Love Justice International that you'd like to share?

John Molineux: You know, I would just re- reiterate what I've in some ways kind of shared, like I spent 20 years living in Nepal learning about uh, the many pitfalls of foreigner-directed justice work, and h- seeing how easy it is to do harm, and how rare impact is.

Um, and despite that, I would say that impact is everything in charity. You know, charity without impact is dead. Love cares about impact because if it was our loved ones, we would only want, care about whether their life was impacted in, in a positive way. And so, um, so I would just, uh, it's, it's so obvious what I'm saying that, you know, you could n- you can hardly disagree with it, but yet it's gone without saying, and, and it needs to be said.

Impact is incredibly important in d- deciding in, in the way that we engage in charity and the way that we contribute to charity.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think it's why it's so important [00:35:00] to if like for instance as a donor, to be an informed donor to know where is your money actually going, and what is it actually doing i- is important, and educating yourself on that.

Cause I think a lot of people just, they give because that's the name they recognize or they get the envelope in the mail, um, not because it's actually making an impact. So my brand is Inspired Stewardship, and I run things through that lens of stewardship, and yet I've discovered over the years that's one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

So when you hear the word stewardship, what has that word meant to you?

John Molineux: Uh, I would say it's like th- the exercise of control over something we don't own. And I, I think it's a really important idea in the Christian life because we don't own any of it. We don't... You know, it, we are, [00:36:00] we have been entrusted.

We have been given things. And but what we've been given t- is a lot of what decides, uh, what our life will be like and who we are. Living in Nepal for 20 years, it, it's w- one of my, uh, biggest insights is, is like seeing inequality, seeing how much... If you're born in a, in rural Nepal in a broken home or, you know, like, what...

And maybe your, your family can't a- afford to send you to school or, you know, like, that will affect you. And, and even the culture and even, even just the education and, and the access to opportunities, that will affect so much about you so much. Um, and what, what I want to say is one person was born there, and you and I were born where we were born and that has made such a difference and, and the situ- and, uh for what we inherit and what we experience.

And the [00:37:00] situation would be no less just if it were reversed. It could have been the other way. But imagine if it was, how different you and I might think about the obligation of the other side to do something to help. So this idea of s- at, at Love Justice, uh, like, stewardship is a really important idea.

Part of it for us is, like, we want that ownership to be on the ground. You know, we want our subcommittees are, that oversee our state, they're the o- we want the national board, that they own, they understand the culture. They're the... And so we actually e- we actually use the word stewardship to describe our method of, of program oversight.

A- and even our, our, we, we call our regional stewards. They're the ones who oversee, you know, multiple countries. They're not directors. They're not, you know, they're not managing anybody. They're stewarding that, that relationship. And so, yeah, I think it has a lot of applications. I- but I think it's the it's a responsibility that comes with having been entrusted with something.

Mm-hmm. And we all have things that we've, that we're stewarding, that we've been entrusted with, [00:38:00] and there is a responsibility that comes with that.

Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a moment that I could invent this magic machine, and with this machine, I was able to take you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years.

And through the power of this machine, you are able to look back and see your entire life, see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left. What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

John Molineux: Boy, 150 years, that's a, that, that's a... To think of all that one, that you might hope, there, there's yeah.

Okay. So- ... one, you know, our mission is to drive the downfall of slavery where it's most rampant, so I hope that we'll have, we will have done that and I even believe that we will. I also think I mean, our, our calling to help churches share Christ's love by bringing justice for the least of these, that can look a lot of different ways, and I hope it does look a lot of different ways.

I hope that [00:39:00] we find many ways to do that. I also hope that some of the ideas that I've had, that Love Justice have had, even the idea about impact, the fact that I hope in that, in that future world 150 years from now, everyone thinks of when they think of charity, they immediately think of impact, and that the two become synonymous, and that the idea of not...

Of, of gi- giving to charity or getting involved in a charity without first asking, "What's the impact? What's the return on, on investment for, in impact?" That that becomes something that's unacceptable. And yeah, I mean, I hope I raise my sons with joy, love and wonder so they can live flourishing, Christ-connected, impactful lives and since you said 150 years, generations can do so.

And, uh- So- Well, and- Go ahead ... probably more than anything, just that, that many people will, will have heard the gospel and responded to it and been transformed by it.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. I think to people I, I was, as you were [00:40:00] talking, I was, I was waiting for the announcement to go off. The, um- You know, the...

Because it's... A- a- and here's why I, I say that, is I'm reflecting on everything you just said isn't really about a number. You know what I mean? It is- cause impact is a number, but it's not like you said, "I wanna have 10,000 people or 100,000 people or a million people." What you said was, "I wanna end slavery," as, you know, that, that would be the impact.

I wanna see this gone you know, because it's not part of the kingdom of God that feeling of, A- and I, and I say that because I think it, it's important to people to recognize that it's not a numbers game necessarily. It's just a all or nothing, but not in a, not in a hustle way, if that makes sense.

Yeah. You know, [00:41:00] not not in the way that I think oftentimes we portray all or nothing in the Western world, yeah.

Yeah.

John Molineux: Yeah. Paul says of, of I can't remember if it's the Thessalonians or the Colossians, he s- he calls them the crown i- in, they're all glory in the presence of the Lord Jesus when he comes, the people whose, whose, who are the fruit of his ministry.

And who... what does that even mean? What does that even look like? I have no idea. I cannot even imagine, it, what that looks like. But I, I think I can say a couple things about it. One, it'll be wonderful, and two, in that moment it will look... It will make us look upon m- many of the things that we cared and, and gave concern about in this world look like nothing.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next for you and for Love Justice International?

John Molineux: I'd say that, you know, I'm gonna wake up every day and come to work in a community of like-minded believers who are passionately committed to our mission until we drive the downfall of slavery in the [00:42:00] places where it's most rampant.

And when I come home from work every day, I'm also gonna, gonna just let it all go because I know God is sovereign over injustice. He loves each person more than a, the person I love most, and he doesn't need me. So I'm just gonna play with my kids, and, uh, yeah, be blessed to do so you can find out more about John and the mission of Love Justice International over at lovejustice.igo.

Scott Maderer: Of course, I'll have a link to that in the show notes as well. John, what else would you like to share with the listeners?

John Molineux: I think I'd probably say this, that God made you for impact. He has some particular impact, in fact, in mind for you, a way that you can do good in this world, make a difference, make, impact people's lives for the better.

But most people don't discover that. The, this, it's like the seed that falls among the thorns. It's the only one, it takes root, but it fails [00:43:00] to produce fruit. And it, and Jesus explains the parable, and he says, "Because the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke out the, uh, the seed, making it unfruitful."

And so I encourage everyone who's listening, cut off the thorns, throw them away, and then go live the flourishing, impactful life that God created you for. Amen.

Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to [00:44:00] inspiredstewardship.com/itunesrate, all one word, itunesrate.

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