Episode 1674: Interview with Harrison Tash About Building a Business that Thrives

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Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 1,674 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

Harrison Tash: Hi, I'm Harrison Tash. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to focus on what you can control is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer.

So I think, I think what growth does, uh, more revenue, more money, people think, "Oh, I need more revenue. That's gonna solve my problems." And at the end of the day, it does one or two things. It can solve some problems for, for your business. It can also magnify problems that already existed, right? [00:01:00]

Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world

In today's podcast, I interview Harrison Tash. I ask Harrison about his book, Exit Without Leaving. I also ask Harrison to share how leaders have misconceptions about what growth really is, and Harrison also shares with you how leaders can unintentionally become bottlenecks for their own business. I have a great book that's been out for a while now called Inspired Living: Assemble the Puzzle of Your Calling by Mastering Your [00:02:00] Time, Your Talent and Your Treasures.

You can find out more about that book over at inspiredlivingbook.com. It'll take you to a page where there's information, and you can sign up to get some mailings about it, as well as purchase a copy there. I'd love to see you get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. Harrison Tash is the author and illustrator of Exit Without Leaving, and founder of Living Water Consulting, where he and his team have helped hundreds of business leaders transform their leadership, scale their operations and add more revenue to their bottom line.

Known for his direct, truth-telling approach with a healthy dose of humor, Harrison has worked with businesses across the United States, guiding them towards clarity, purpose and sustainable success. Whether it's refining leadership, streamlining systems or building a thriving

company culture, his mission is simple: help leaders build a business that thrives with them but doesn't [00:03:00] depend on them.

Welcome to the show, Harrison.

Harrison Tash: Hey, Scott. Thanks for having me.

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I look forward to our conversation today. I talked a little bit in the intro about your book, some of the work you're doing the various things that kind of, are, you're, you're doing today. But I always think when I hear intros, when I hear bios, I always think it just It shows where we're at, it doesn't show how we got there. Yeah. For sure. So take us back in time a little bit and share a little bit about your journey and what has brought you to the point where this is what you feel called to, to do in the world?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, I appreciate that. And you're right, yeah, it's, it's good to get a little bit of the backstory.

So I went to, I went to college, played soccer there, and, um, you know, I ... To give a sh- a shorter version of the story, I wanted to work for a mid-market [00:04:00] kind of small business that was in the community, and so I did that. And it was just, it was funny because as much as I really wanted to work for a company like that, I found out very quickly what it was like to run a s- you know, a mid-market business privately held, and it was just under terrible leadership.

I learned that, you know, there was some unethical behavior, but there was just a lot of control that the owner had, and I felt it on every position of the org chart. And I was just like, "Wow," like, he's just got his thumb on everything. So I traded that chaos and worked for this amazing company that I spent a decade at, and I worked my way up the ladder and, and what the CEO president said, you know, they gave me the keys to the castle to help run the business, to help really develop leaders and, and strategy [00:05:00] and execution.

And when I got to that company, I saw what it was the complete opposite. So I saw this, this m- you know, this, uh, business that was privately held, and it was terrible, and then I saw this other side of the company that was where when they empowered people and invested in people, it grew, like tremendously grew.

Actually, I think they're at, like, a half a billion right now, so pretty amazing company. Still privately held, right? And so I saw both ends of the stick and- Uh, e-eventually I had a lot of people ask if I would help them do the same thing I was helping with this company, and that's where I kind of felt that I was seeing a lot of privately held founders and owners, they were just...

They almost felt like their businesses were handcuffs not like a blessing or freedom, right? And that's what just propelled me into what I do today. So that's the backstory. That's, like, why I love doing what I do because [00:06:00] I think privately held businesses are literally the backbone of the economy, right?

I think it's what holds us all together, it's what holds our communities together and, uh, gives us God-given opportunities and I, I've gotta go back into the God-given part in a little bit, but before I, I go there, I wanna follow up. You know, you mentioned the one was a mid-market, the one was larger, and then there were, there were differences in the leadership.

Scott Maderer: A-and I wanna make sure from your point of view that I give you a chance to kind of expand on that. So was the size difference because of the leadership difference, or was the leadership difference because of the size difference? Do you understand what I'm asking? Uh-huh. You know?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, that's a great question, and, and actually, no.

Uh, both companies started at the same level. Okay. I mean, both companies started with a founder, right? Uh, the time the time, uh the time zone was... Not time zone, but the, the [00:07:00] time was a little different on their, on their growth stage of when things hit. But no, I m- I mean, they both started at the same level.

They both started with a, a dad that started the company and gave it to them, uh, and they bought it from their dad and... You know so these companies had very similar backgrounds. The difference was truly that there was one person who had to have control over everything and didn't quite invite people in to help them grow their business, right?

It was like they tried to do it all themselves. They thought they had it all. And then the other side was they empowered other people that were honestly smarter than them in different areas, right? And that's the key. We all have these strengths, and so inviting people in to lead certain areas of our business is truly the catalyst for us to grow our businesses.

Scott Maderer: Yeah, and again, I wanna dive back into that a little bit more in a minute. But before I go there I wanna circle back to, you know, you mentioned [00:08:00] how, uh, small business, private business is the backbone for God-given opportunities. I like to expand on the show or give folks a, an opportunity to share with the, the listener how their faith journey and their life journey intersect and feed back to each other.

I, I see for a lot of, uh, the folks that come on the show, there's kind of a connection between those two areas of our life in terms of how we grow. For you, going back to your journey, how has your faith journey fed into that life journey that you've had?

Harrison Tash: Yeah. So many ways. I mean, for one I live my life, at least I I'm certainly always in the pursuit of living my life with my hands open, right?

Like, I, I believe that, you know, God blessed us with so many things, and that if we don't give it back, then we're holding onto it. And, um, so the intersection there is that there, there isn't two lives. There's not just your [00:09:00] spiritual life and your work life and your personal life, right? These are all one life.

And there's sections of our life that should bleed into each other and help each other and grow each other. And, um, so you know, for me I've just really, I try my best to always invite God into everything that I do, and when I don't, I feel the pain from it. So you know, it's like, yes, we're always gonna have these ups and downs, but if we're consistently on an upward pattern of being closer, uh, in relationship then I think that is where we're, we're gonna win.

Scott Maderer: So when you think about you know, working with founders and small business owners, what, What's the difference that lets some business owners, you know, [00:10:00] invite other people in like you're talking about versus those that kind of wanna micromanage or control? Is that is that something that you think was j- it's just the personality, it's just how they were wired, or, you know, what, where does that come from?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, and I, you know what? I'd, I'd hate to like boil down and just say micromanagement because it's not all that, right? Like I worked some... I worked with some really good businesses that were stuck at the same kind of growth stage for a long, long time, and it was not that they were micromanagers. It was not that they were bad people.

That's just my story of being under bad leadership and seeing a flower stomped by a boot, and then seeing, you know, the opposite of really good leadership. But some of the businesses we work with it's not always personality. Sometimes it's like literally we don't know what we don't know, right?

We haven't been there before. We haven't seen it happen before. And the, the great thing about my [00:11:00] journey is that I've s- I've been on both sides. I've worked for a, you know, a $5 million business, and I've worked for a half a billion dollar business, and I've been in leadership in both sides of those companies.

And so I've been in everything in between, um, and so when I, when I look at my journey, you know say the first 15 years were just head down, just grinding and figuring out what worked and problem solve. So what I see as the biggest difference is that there is this grow mindset, right? And it's ability, it's awareness, and it's improvement.

So if you know what your ability is, you have awareness of what's going on around you and, and what your limitations are, and then you can improve on those things, typically that means that if you're gonna do that well, you're gonna invite other people in to your business to help you do it. And, and here's a, here's a quick example.

W-we're all not great at marketing, [00:12:00] right? Okay. Well, pick up a book. Read a book. You're now gathering intel from somebody else who wrote a book for you, right? Uh, y- we're, we're all not great at hiring or figuring out how to build the right team to get to the next level to hit our vision. So I think one of the, the biggest...

I think the biggest downfall I see when companies don't grow, it's when they don't do that very thing. When they don't know their limitations, they're not aware of it, and they don't know how to improve it. And it's like, it's like you're sitting in, in a, uh a hole waiting for someone to come by, and you're just like, "I'm just gonna keep digging instead," right?

And it's like y-you need a hand out of that hole. Someone can get you out of there, and you need to invite them in. And I'm not saying... I, I am not saying just consulting services. I'm not saying that. I mean you i-intentionally find someone who's really good- At analyzing at looking [00:13:00] at the details, while you're really good at maybe relationships and building the business on those, right?

Like, you gotta learn to balance your business really well, and that's why we do a lot of data analytics to figure out what do you need in your business? What are you really good at, and what's your opportunities, and how do you balance those? And that's a really, really important step for a lot of business owners.

Scott Maderer: And why do you think so many business owners, e- especially founders unintentionally become the bottleneck for their own business?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, I think, I think it does have to do with they, you know, they, they have a lot to do, right? Um, when you think about all the hats that you wear in your business no one's gonna care about it more than you.

That's the truth, right? You can find people that come very, very close though, and that's, that's where I think people, they, they think of it in a fallacy. It's like you're either an owner or you're not, and it's like, no, no, no. There's [00:14:00] no or there. There's actually people there who do want to grow a business with someone.

You have to really step back and think of it like this. Yes, you're the, you're the founder, and no one's gonna care about it, and no one's gonna, like, keep it up afloat like you will. But there are people who know that they're not founders, they're not the entrepreneur type, and they want a team.

You gotta go find those people.

That's who you gotta find. And so the reason why I think a lot of times they become the bottleneck is because they unintentionally guard themselves too much. They unintentionally ... They start to hold onto things too tight. They either do that or they avoid things.

Hmm. So I mean, if you think of these extremes, it's like you either avoid or you control, and when you think about those extremes right there, most people aren't great at being in the middle, but we can certainly learn to get there. And [00:15:00] so if you're not the controlling type, you might be the avoiding type.

You might be avoiding certain things because of fear. You fear that if someone else comes into your business, they might, you know, they might take over, they might be better than you. Let's be honest. How many of us wanna hire someone who's better than us?

Right? But that is one of the-

Scott Maderer: Well,

Harrison Tash: or

Scott Maderer: I'm gonna hire them and they're gonna learn all of my secret sauce, and then they're gonna go start a business and compete with me.

I've heard

Harrison Tash: that from some

Scott Maderer: too. Yeah, that's

Harrison Tash: right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and you're bringing up a great point. There, there's a fear attached to that, right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. And I think we have to, we have to operate with a grow mindset. We have to operate with this ability to think about the future and not so much hold ourselves back with these fear attachments that the things that could happen.

Harrison Tash: Now there are some really good things you can do. You just mentioned something that a lot of founders fear. Hmm. If I bring someone in, they're gonna know all my secret sauce, right? Y- you do need to guard certain things. You know I would guard financials [00:16:00] until someone earns your respect to be transparent about that.

I would guard that, you know, y- some of your, your articles and your writings and things that maybe are proprietary, maybe there's a system you have. These kind of things I might guard a little bit, but over time you're gonna gain trust with somebody. And here's the thing. If you treat people really, really well, and you focus more on them than you do yourself, and you learn to balance that, right?

Like, you learn to balance how to speak into people- And then how to develop yourself and how to keep up with yourself. If you learn to balance that well, people are gonna feel that, and they're gonna be seen, they're gonna be heard, and they're gonna feel like they're growing it with you. Oh, and by the way, most the clients that we have, around the 10-year mark, maybe 15, I start to see them actually give a little ownership to individuals, and start to hold them on to say, "Hey, you know, in a few years, what if you had, like, 10% of this company?

Would you, would you be willing to grow this [00:17:00] again with me?" I see that happen time and time again because once the trust is built, then you really do have true camaraderie of people who are like, "I'm ready to build this with you, man. Not take it from you."

Yeah. Well- I think when you operate out of fear, it certainly leads to people leaving

Scott Maderer: a- and again, it's also like you said earlier, it's finding the right people in the first place for two reasons. One, there are people that know, "Hey I don't wanna go start my own business. That's, you know, not what I wanna do, but I'd love to thrive and succeed and share share both the goods and the bads, you know, with, with you- Yeah

the owner. You know, I just don't wanna own one my own." So there's always that. But there's also the fact of... 'Cause I've seen it. I've seen people hire somebody, somebody's, quote, "learned their secret sauce" and then gone and started their own thing, and failed miserably. Yeah, me too. Yeah. You know, and failed miserably.

Yeah. You know, [00:18:00] it's not like everyone... In other words, there, there's so much more to running a business than any one thing that a- that it, it's not really... I, I mean, I understand the fear, but it's not like that usually happens that way. You know what I mean?

Harrison Tash: Yeah. Well, and, yeah, and I, like, I would say it this way, too.

Like out of most of the scenarios where I've seen one person leaves and starts their own thing, one of those companies is actually more successful than the other for a very good reason. So maybe someone left because they felt the control, and they're like, "Listen, this guy's never going to give up his baby, his control.

He's never gonna empower me." and then they go and start their own thing and they are actually really good at it. And like you said, sometimes they go and start their own thing and it fails miserably because the person that started it is a good leader- Right ... and the person that went and stole it is not a great person, right?

Like, character-wise, right? Wh- which

Scott Maderer: is part

Harrison Tash: of the reason

Scott Maderer: they did that. [00:19:00]

Harrison Tash: So it's like, yeah, yeah. And I've seen it both ways, and normally the scenario is it's not like they're both i- insanely successful. It's like one is normally really successful and the other one's basically dying, right? Mm-hmm. So whatever scenario that is, uh- and

Scott Maderer: notice what you said

yeah, it's, it's a part of the

Harrison Tash: game.

Scott Maderer: The reason isn't the secret sauce. The reason is the leadership You know, what really drives the success. Yeah

Harrison Tash: Yeah, don't tell anybody, but, you know, I have, I have a couple people on my team where I'm pretty sure pretty sure they are better at me in, like, 80% of stuff, right?

And, you know, it's like their skill set pairs well with me, and that's why it's a success. And it's like, you know, like, yeah, could they go and start their own thing? Maybe. Maybe, but then they would be missing me, too, right? Mm-hmm. So being able to truly form a team means that there is strengths and development opportunities, and you're, you're learning how to balance that as you go.

Scott Maderer: We talked a little bit or I [00:20:00] mentioned in the intro that you've got uh, your book Exit Without Leaving. What do you mean by exit without leaving? What what does that mean?

Harrison Tash: Yeah. I mean, the, the, the concept is, is that it's a ... I've seen this played out so many times that I love saying this now, and it's essentially this.

You have a business that you feel like it really does actually depend on you a little too much, okay? Exit without leaving is creating a team that helps you run it, and when you literally step back for however time you want, it still does run. Now, will it be better with you? I think it will normally, right?

You bring something to the table. The concept isn't to be lazy. The concept isn't to go take a six-month vacation. The concept is create a business that thrives with you but doesn't depend on you. It's not a business [00:21:00] because of you. It's a business because of what you've built and who you've built, right?

Scott Maderer: So you're talking there not about the employee or, or, you know, qu- the quiet quitting and that kind of thing. You're literally talking about how to develop that business like you're talking about one where the, the leader enables and empowers, not controls and, and out of fear or out of other motivation.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, exactly. And you know what? Whether you're a small company that has, like, 10, 15 employees or, or you're a large company that's got 100 or hundreds no matter where you are on the scale, what I've discovered is that every executive, every founder, owner have trouble creating leaders who actually run the business.

They do. W- most companies struggle with this, so it's not a size thing. It's actually because [00:22:00] every ... Let's just call it every five years is, like, a, a normal cycle we see. Every five years, you're hitting another growth ceiling, right? Now, depending on your size, that might actually expand to maybe seven or eight years.

But every couple years, like handful of years, you're gonna hit a growth ceiling, and you're going to need to do the same thing w- in principle, which is- Build leaders who run the business, and that is what got you here is not gonna get you there, right? Yeah. We all know that. And so it's a, it is a, a, a way to be able to peel it apart and say, "What's gonna get us there again?

What character do we need? What competence do we need? And in what function of the business is it needed?"

Scott Maderer: Yeah, because there's... I- if n- if for no other reason than at some point you outgrow the ability of the team that you have to just keep up with the level of work needed , you know? At, at some point there's too much to do with the people that you got, uh, and you gotta be [00:23:00] able to expand beyond that.

I, I wanna give you a chance too to talk a little bit about this, 'cause it's something I've observed over the years and I talk to business owners about. Everyone focuses on businesses closing or failing because of, you know, the cashflow problems or not enough clients, you know, the, the failure- Yeah

that seems kind of, quote, "obvious," yeah. But I've also seen businesses go under because of success. Yeah. Too much success at the wrong time too quickly, that kind of thing. Talk a little bit about that dichotomy and how I think as business owners we always focus on the failure side and ignore the fact that the success side, if we don't do it right, could also be a an issue.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, I think this is why... This is an important aspect of the book that I wrote, Exit Without Leaving, is the, the systems piece, right? So I think, I think w-what growth does more revenue, more money, people think, "Oh, I need more revenue, and that's gonna solve my problems." And [00:24:00] at the end of the day, it does one or two things.

It can solve some problems for your business, can also magnify problems that already existed, right? And so if I look at it on two, two broad scales, it's people and process. Do you have the right people, and do you have the right processes? And, and not just process. I s- I speak a lot about systems. So in this AI-driven, you know, world, we have to think about the right systems, right?

So if we start working with a company and we ask, "How do you get your business?" And they tell us, "Referrals," and that's all they say... Now, we've worked... You know, you know, some of the companies we work with are $50 million, $100 million companies. Some we work with are five and $10 million companies. They're privately held, and that's the that's the metric we look for.

Are you privately held? Because decisions can be a little faster, right? Mm-hmm. And so when we look at that, no matter where you are, if you're [00:25:00] still depending on word of mouth, you're in a bad spot. And so you need a system, and this is just, like, one problem that we could magnify. So does growth fix this?

In this scenario, this is a good thing. That means that something's happened where growth's happened. But there might be a downward economy where something isn't like referrals isn't gonna solve your issues. You're gonna need to have something else. And so a system might be pair that with, you know, that you have automated emails, you have marketing, you have ads, you have a billboard, right?

Like, hey, if you're a plumbing company right now and you don't have billboards, my a- question is is why? People ... Whether it's ads online or if it's a billboard on a street, like, they still work, right? For, especially for community-driven type companies. And it doesn't mean you have to do that, but I give it as an example.

But, so my point is is that growth isn't going to solve everyone's problems. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. It will actually solve some problems, but not others. But, uh, but let's say you [00:26:00] had that leader that worked up in your business. They were really good at, uh, project management. They were great at estimating for you.

They were an awesome employee. And then you say, "Hey, can you lead this department? We need someone to lead," you know, let's say it's our, you know our, um say our quoting and customer rep department. It's like, "Hey, can you lead this department? You're so good at what you do." Oftentimes we're we're actually, um promoting people based on their competence.

Well, at one point, that competence hits a ceiling. And so when we think, "Well, okay, now we got the team ready, let's go," and then you find out that this one leader over here, he can't lead very well. He doesn't know how to hold people accountable. She doesn't know how to, you know, fill in the blank.

Scott Maderer: Right.

Harrison Tash: And so now growth has actually magnified a problem, and now you got people, you know, leaving your company and they're like, "Listen, I don't wanna work for that person." Or maybe they don't say anything at all, but if they keep [00:27:00] leaving in one department, that should be your s- your sign, right? And I know I'm probably hitting some pain points for people listening right now.

Yeah. They're like, "Yeah, that's happened to me," right? Like, we've all had the one person in our business we're like, "Why can't they lead well?"

So growth is gonna magnify that problem, not help it, right?

Scott Maderer: Well,

and

Harrison Tash: I think- So I think that's just, like, a story. It doesn't mean it's the universal one for all, but that's a story, right?

Scott Maderer: Sure. And, and I think, too, sometimes it comes back to those decisions that you made. A- and for instance, you know, I've seen people, "Oh this person's my top salesperson, so I'm gonna make them the sales manager."

Harrison Tash: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: And they have no management, no leadership, no... They can't teach anyone else to do what they do.

They're just r- really kick-butt salesperson, you know?

Harrison Tash: Well, if they're really good at sales, they're, they're, they're gonna pay attention to results and they're gonna, like, literally drive through people to get those results. Right, right. And it's does that make the best manager? No. Like, that's gonna, that's gonna [00:28:00] lead to some trouble.

You gotta figure out how to develop them, and there are ways, right? And,

Scott Maderer: and, and again, they might make a good sales manager, but not if you just look at that one criteria. You actually have to either develop or train or identify- Yeah ... who's got the actual skill set of management and leadership and training and, you know, those sorts of things.

And, and it is the mistake, you know, I've seen people make. They promote for the competence that they have in their current position as opposed to for the competence that they need at the new position. Right. You know? It's like, what, those might, they might be the same thing, but they may not be, too, depending on where you're moving them along.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, for sure.

Scott Maderer: When you think about leaders and w- what we're talking about, uh, founders, you know, those private held businesses, what are some of the misconceptions that people have when it comes to to growth, [00:29:00] to, to developing their business? I mean, I think we've touched on some already but what else would you add?

Yeah.

Harrison Tash: You know, I would, I would definitely add that, you know, the, the whole... the old adda- I hear people say this a lot where they're like, "Hey you gotta, you gotta spend money to make money," right? And I think that's true, but in, in a lot of contexts, I see people spending a lot of money and not capturing what's the true return on it.

And I think that's a very dangerous thing to do, especially when you're in another growth stage with your company. So if you can imagine people saying, "Well, if I just dump money into ads, I know I'm gonna get a return." Yeah, but what kind of return, right? And so we've literally ... I mean, this is a, this is an exact scenario.

Somebody was spending, I'm not kidding you when I say, $75,000 a year [00:30:00] on flyers, okay? We said, "How many people have told you that they saw your flyer and that's why they came to you?" Now, this was a, uh, this was a, a contractor. They did roofing. I'll say it's roofing, but it's something else, but that way nobody knows.

Okay. But they s- they said, "Okay. Um, we don't know." And I said, "Well, well, don't you ask your customers where they heard about you, where they saw you?" And they're like, "No, we don't." I said, "Well, let's start doing that." Three months in to them being disciplined, and actually, you know, we held them accountable to this because it's not easy to do, but in their, in their, uh, sales process we started asking the customers, "Where did you hear about us?

How did you find out about us?" It was a metric. Nobody said a flyer. Three months in, hundreds of customers, not one person said a flyer. I said, "Wow, I don't know if these flyers are actually doing what you think they are." So we cut the [00:31:00] flyers in half for the next three months. We said, "Not ... We're gonna send out half the amount of flyers."

Business didn't change. The amount of customers in the potential customer realm didn't change. I said, "I'm pretty sure we need to get rid of flyers." We took that money, $75,000 a year, made it a base commission for a salesperson, sales and development, and like over a course of a year we're looking at this and saying, "What, what, what brought back more return?"

They landed a million-dollar project, was like over a three-phase project, in less than six months with that position. Now, I'm not saying that that couldn't have happened without that person, but they were the person on that project. Yeah. They are the ones that brought it in. So I think it's dangerous when we think of, "Well, if we spend more money, we'll make more money."

You need to track it, especially if you're in a growth stage and investing more [00:32:00] money is what you need to do to get past the next hump. You're going to need to look at that and say, "How do we know it's bringing return?" Mm-hmm. So metrics are very, very important.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. I've, I've seen, uh, similar similar stories of people not, That you don't even know whether it's working or not because you're not measuring it. Maybe we need to look, you know- Yeah ... uh, and, and, and see if it's actually working. I had a, a handyman that was part of a a group I was part of, and he was spending $1,000 a month on one advertising schema and $70 a month...

You know, a se- solopreneur. You know, small- Yeah ... very, very small. $70 a month on one, $1,000 a month on another. And then when he put some metrics in place to track it, it turned out he was getting, like, 1% of his clients from the $1,000 a month and, like, 99% of his clients from the $70 a month. And it's like- Then why are you spending $1,000 a month?

Right. You know? Sh- take that [00:33:00] $1,000 and go, go do something else with it that'll help you even more, and, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I, I, again, saying that to say it's not a size thing, it's a are you looking at your data thing, 'cause it happens at all, all different sizes. Um-

Harrison Tash: Yeah, and you know, Peter Drucker says what gets measured gets improved.

Scott Maderer: Improved.

Harrison Tash: Right?

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

Harrison Tash: You you can't just freely spend money and expect that it's gonna do the right thing for you. You, you really do need to figure out where it's going. So that is a, that is one thing I see that happens in businesses, um, that's ... It's definitely, it's definitely something to pay attention to.

Scott Maderer: Well, and you see it in the online world where, you know the influencer that says, "Oh, I had a million dollar launch," and it's A million dollars profit?" "Well, no, a million dollars in revenue." " how much did you spend to make that million dollars?" You know? Yeah,

Harrison Tash: yeah. 'Cause, '

Scott Maderer: cause if you spent, if you spent $2 million to make a million dollars, I'm not all that impressed.

You know?

Harrison Tash: That's right. Yep, that's right. And you know what? Another thing I would say [00:34:00] is behavior metrics. Mm-hmm. I mean, a lot of times our work comes down to behavior. Sure. And it's like people lack discipline for good reasons. Uh, we live in a, in an abundance United States. It's all in abundance.

So we have to learn to really not be complacent and hold ourselves accountable and have discipline, and, uh, that's why we track, we track behavior metrics a lot, right? Uh, you say you wanna be better at managing your time. Okay, well, let's measure that. Did you plan the week before the week began? No?

That's probably a problem, right? Mm-hmm. Did you block off time after your meeting so that you could send emails and action items? No? Okay, well, that's probably a start, right? Did you s- did you set up prep time so that you have time to prep for that meeting with that customer? No, you just ran into it and then you're like, "Why didn't I get that customer?

Like, I thought I g- I thought we had everything they needed." You didn't prep for it, right? So managing your time is a behavior [00:35:00] metric. Mm ... we talked about earlier the manager. Uh, by the way, it's the Peter principle, right? Like- You, uh, you, you keep promoting people- Promote people ... until they're incompetent, right?

And, um, you know, you look at that and it's like, okay, well, how do you, how do you measure this? Well, if they're not great at holding people accountable, you better put a metric on them that says, listen, once a week you're gonna go through your, with your team and ac- actually hold them accountable by asking them where they're at on this project and what do they need to do, right?

This is accountability. Right? People don't like pe- most people don't like lying to your face. So when you say, "Where are we on this?" And they tell you, and you say, "Okay, what do we need to do next?" That is a form of accountability.

Being curious and asking good questions.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think, uh w- we sometimes just magically expect people to know what they're supposed to do and don't ever actually communicate or put metrics in [00:36:00] place to, to measure that, for sure.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, for sure.

Scott Maderer: So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I ask you those, is there anything else about your work or your book, Exit Without Leaving, that you'd like to share?

Harrison Tash: Yeah. You know, I I'm very passionate about what I do. Like I said, I'm passionate about the, you know, the mid-market privately held firms.

They're, they're the established kind of companies, but they've hit another growth ceiling. Very passionate about helping them find leaders and develop their leaders and at the end of the day, you know, Warren Buffett says it best, right? If you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together, right?

And you know, I, I loved, I love so many quotes, so I'll give you one more. But if you, if you gotta slow down to go fast, right? That curve is coming, and if you're not slowing down to ensure that you got all the right pieces together [00:37:00] before you then take off again, like we said earlier those problems might magnify.

Where we are a perfect solution to people read the book. If you love it, call us. You know, like I, I really do enjoy helping people. So anyways the only thing I wanna mention be- beyond that is, is like you have what it takes to do it, and people just need to believe in themselves, and they need to, they need to be disciplined into, uh, really holding themselves accountable in some of these things that really will make a difference in their business.

Scott Maderer: So my brand is Inspired Stewardship, and I kind of run things through that lens of stewardship. And yet over the years I've discovered that's one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So I like to ask my guest what is stewardship and for you, and what, what has its impact been on you?

Harrison Tash: Yeah. Stewardship put plainly is this. It's God has blessed you [00:38:00] with everything in your life, right? God has blessed you with everything in your life. And so it's the people around you, it's your talents, it's your, it's the literal tangible things that you see. And stewardship is this. What are you doing to give it back?

What are you doing to actually steward those things and discern of how you take care of it? And, um, we talk a lot about... It's, I, I love that you love the word stewardship because y- I use it in the book and I love it as well. Stewardship and relationships is something that I think go hand in hand.

Uh, you wanna steward your life? Well, you better be in community.

You wanna steward your, your gifts and your business? Well, you better be in community, right? And, uh, so stewardship means a lot to me, so I appreciate you asking.

Scott Maderer: This is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a moment that I invented this [00:39:00] magic machine, and with this machine, I was able to take you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years.

Uh, and with the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life, see all of the connections, see all of the ripples, see all of the impacts you've left. What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

Harrison Tash: Well, first and foremost, I hope my kids and my wife look at that time and say, "He was a God-fearing man, he was a good man and he cared about others."

Um, I, yeah, I I hope there's a lot of people that said, "Man, he cared about me, and he helped me." like, I hope there's a lot of people that, that say that. You know, that, that would be the ultimate trophy in a lifetime, right? Is to look at that and be like, man people knew you feared God, and they knew that you ha- wanted to help them.

That is... [00:40:00] That would be my, that would be my answer for that.

Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next as you continue on your journey?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, the, uh, the journey is, is, uh, l- what it is. Right now, I'll tell you, I'll just give you, like, my, uh, my internals right now, how I'm thinking about things. I'm, I am trying to slow down before we take the next curve, and I'm trying to enjoy the process in it, right?

You know, business sometimes can feel like raise revenue, raise revenue, and I'm actually just trying to enjoy the process of where we're at in our growth stage, and not get, not get to wh- where I'm trying to cram everything into a day, I think it was just last week where my wife, uh, looked at me and she goes, "Hey, listen, you're going to tell me when you're quitting for the day.

You're gonna say it out loud so that I can hold you accountable to that, right?"

And I'm like, "Yeah, you're right." I'm, like, enjoying work so much right now. Like, it's been, it's just been a fun journey. And but [00:41:00] I also get in this timeframe where I think, "Well, before the end of the day, I have to finish this," the truth of the matter is, is that there are things that are better when you just put them down for a second, come back to them later, right? So I'm trying to enjoy the process more. So for us right now, we are in a growth stage. We are taking on more clients, and we're, we're, uh, we're we're doing great work, but at the same time, it's like, let's enjoy this process.

Let's not make this about making more revenue. Let's make it about helping people and also enjoying it at the same time. So that's ours. What about you, Scott? I bet no one's ever asked you. What's what's your next yeah.

Scott Maderer: You know, honestly, I'm working on a second book is on my roadmap.

Um- Nice ... it'll be probably a couple of years, but it'll be coming out eventually. I don't have an exact date on it yet. And then for me, it's really just continue, kind of like you, it's, it's enjoying where I'm at. I'm not really in a [00:42:00] place where I have to or want to grow, but I'm looking to do more speaking and more presenting in that form doing- Uh, kind of moving from just the one-on-one coaching to more group work and that kind of thing.

So-

Harrison Tash: Yeah ...

Scott Maderer: uh, not really changing it, but pivoting a little bit and adding in some other things. So that's pretty much for me. Thank you for asking. You're right, nobody ever asks that.

Harrison Tash: Well, man, if I could ever help you, Scott, you let me know. I'm sure- Absolutely ... there's plenty of people, yeah.

Scott Maderer: So you can find out more about Harrison over at consultlivingwater.com.

That's all one word. Of course, I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well in case you're driving or can't capture it right now. Harrison, what else would you like to make sure the listener walks away with today?

Harrison Tash: Yeah, you know, I, I always tell people evaluate where you're at and currently.

And there's really four stages of growth that I think people need to know which stage they're in in order to [00:43:00] understand where they need to go. So go to our website. There's a contact us there. Uh, fill that in, and get a free tool to help you assess that. Because e- even if y- you don't call us or you don't call Scott, like, that's okay.

At the end of the day, you need tools to help you, and that's what we wanna provide. So get those tools... By the way, Scott, that was a, that was a plug for you too, man. Like, you're doing great work out there as well. I

Scott Maderer: appreciate it.

Harrison Tash: I appreciate what you do. I'll, I'll

Scott Maderer: also add pick up the book that, uh, it would be another resource that you could go by.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate that.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Your book. Your book.

Harrison Tash: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah. Exit Well Living's on, uh, Barnes & Noble, uh, online. It's also in, on, uh, Amazon. And, uh, yeah, you could go to the website to do that growth stage, uh, assessment as well, awesome. Thank you so much.

Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for [00:44:00] listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspiredstewardship.com/itunesrate, all one word, itunesrate.

It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence and impact the world