Episode 1668: Interview with Cameron Magee About Leading a Business with Faith

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Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 1,668 of the Inspired Stewardship podcast

Cameron Magee: I'm Cameron Magee. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to find your passion and live it is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the Inspired Stewardship podcast, with my friend, Scott Maderer.

thing to do is to talk about them. We have a, a monthly meeting where we, we call them out. We, we actually hand out these, they're really silly, but these little gold star stickers. And we ask the team, not just for me to hand out, "Hey, Ryan did a great job last week. Here's a gold star from you on this. You were really embodying this core value."

But we ask the team to give them to each other, 'cause you may see something where they're like, "Hey, th- you really went above and beyond here."

Scott Maderer: Welcome [00:01:00] and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling.

In the Inspired Stewardship podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world

Today's podcast episode, I interview Cameron Magee. I ask Cameron about how he runs a business with his personal faith, but also shows respect for others. I also ask Cameron about how he has truly found his calling, and Cameron also shares with you more about how his business makes an impact for him, his employees, and his customers.

I have a great book that's been out for a while now called Inspired [00:02:00] Living: Assemble the Puzzle of Your Calling by Mastering Your Time, Your Talent, and Your Treasures. You can find out more about that book over at inspiredlivingbook.com. It'll take you to a page where there's information, and you can sign up to get some mailings about it, as well as purchase a copy there.

I'd love to see you get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. Cameron Magee is the founder and CEO of Avid3, a national production company trusted to deliver flawless, high-stake events and conferences. For more than 20 years, he has been behind the scenes of some of the most visible gatherings in the country, producing summits, galas, and conferences for Walmart, The White House, and major associations.

What sets Cameron apart is not just the productions he leads, but his passion for teaching planners how to navigate budgets, rehearsals, and technology with confidence. Cameron has built more than a [00:03:00] production company in Avid3. He has built a culture rooted in service where planners know they will be supported with clarity and trust, and where production professionals are cared for as much as clients.

The team provides end-to-end solutions in audio, video, lighting, staging, and hybrid events, while also investing in resources and education that empower planners to succeed. A teacher at heart, Cameron has written more than 100 articles and spoken at national industry events, sharing practical insights on everything from budgeting and RFPs to new technologies like LED walls.

His sessions are known for their clarity and relatability, grounded in real-world experience, told through stories, and focused on tools planners can put into practice right away Rooted in Bentonville, Arkansas with his wife, two kids, and golden retriever, Cameron brings humility and authenticity to every stage.

Whether backstage with

a [00:04:00] headset or leading a workshop on the future of events, he helps people cut through the noise, focus on what matters, and deliver experiences that shine.

Welcome to the show, Cameron.

Cameron Magee: Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me, Scott.

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.

So I talked a little bit in the intro about some of the, the work you do and now and, and how you've kind of been focused on building more than just a production company, but the, the, the work behind it as well I always think of intros and bios and those sorts of things as they show us the end of the journey, but they don't show us how we got there.

Yeah. So take us back in time a little bit and share a little bit about your journey and, and what has brought you to the point where this is the work you feel called to do.

Cameron Magee: Yeah. Well, the, the bio covers some of this stuff, but, you know, I started volunteering at my church when I was 12 just doing the AV.

Really started the business that I run now, that probably is why we're [00:05:00] talking on this podcast, AVOD3, in my dorm room. But to me, I wasn't really good at sports or anything else, frankly. It- when I, when I found audiovisual, when I wandered up to that sound booth, I felt an awakening in me that was super clear.

Like, this is, this is what you're actually good at. You know, this is what you're gifted at, and that's been undeniable to me every year. When I talk to other technical people in the field, I realize I'm super blessed that that stuff kind of makes sense to me pretty quickly and easily. When I talk to other people in the field that are more technical but don't really have the business acumen, I've found that I just have a passion for that, and I love to read and learn about it.

And so I'm affirmed, even through the lows, you know, when we've had dark, just tough seasons in business, which happens multiple times i- in a 15-year span, I'm affirmed that I'm supposed to do AV, I'm supposed to run a small business, and I'm uniquely set up to do it. So yeah, i- it's just been a consistent, um, uh, I [00:06:00] don't want to say calling.

It, it's not a ministry but a very consistent, clear path that this is my purpose.

Scott Maderer: Okay, now I'm gonna challenge you. You just said it's not a ministry. What, why?

Cameron Magee: To me, I l- I love business and I love being out because I love Jesus's model in the Bible. He was, He was with the woman at the well, He was with the tax collectors.

He spent very little time in the four walls of the synagogue. And so I, I like His model and I, I think it is my calling to not be in ministry. I serve at my church. I'm super active. I, I love serving, but I don't, I don't see my calling as the same as someone who gets called to say they're gonna go, you know, they're gonna fly to Africa and, and, and start an orphanage or something.

It's, it's different to, say, full-time ministry. I'm not diminishing that, that what I do doesn't matter for the kingdom. I, I love getting to brush shoulders with people who aren't believers, and I love getting to be out in the field and, and yesterday, getting to talk to people, um, on site with a pretty large crew and...

But I, [00:07:00] um, I don't wanna, I don't wanna diminish full-time ministry. I wanna kind of honor and put them, uh, not that it's in a competition, but I really appreciate full-time ministry, and I kind of want to honor that that is a different thing than what I'm doing. I'm not trying to downplay it, but

Scott Maderer: yeah, just different.

Well, it, I would agree that it's a different kind of ministry, but I'm not gonna call it not call it a ministry.

That's good. That's- uh, uh, th- 'cause I believe there is ministry into the workplace, um and ministry, uh, between- if, if ministry only happens in the four walls of the church, then nobody's there to appreciate it you know?

Cameron Magee: And, and that really aligns, you know, when you frame it that way, that aligns with what I think I'm doing and what I'm trying to do, which is I wanna be out here on mission. Um, and that's what the- my home church, we've been there for I think 14 years, and we talk about that, about, about living on mission.

Um, but I just, I don't know, I just always have a higher respect for literal missionaries or something like that. [00:08:00] But yeah, I'm not trying to diminish what I do at all.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. So talk a little bit about your faith journey. Y- you mentioned the, the AV experience in church. I... We talked before and I talked about the fact that I've, I've always either been part of the AV team or running the AV team.

Uh, that just for whatever reason seems to be something that I gravitate to in church as well. So talk a little bit about your faith journey and how, how your faith has intersected with what you do in life-

Cameron Magee: Yeah, that's

Scott Maderer: good ... and vice versa.

Cameron Magee: Yeah. Most of the circles I run in are, are pretty, uh, high-performance driven entrepreneur type people.

And so I think the, the best way to answer that question for me is more Jesus's model of what good is it for a man to gain the whole world, but forfeit his soul? And to me, it would be really easy actually for me to just work all the time. You know, it would be really easy for Avide III to be twice as big as it is.

That's kind of a a strange thing to say out loud, so I'll say that a little slower. It would [00:09:00] be easy, or maybe I should say natural, maybe my natural inclination- Mm-hmm ... would be for Avide III to be twice as big of a company as it is, or twice as successful as it is. I don't say that arrogantly, like that would be really hard and difficult to do, but what I mean is it is odd and takes a lot of self-control, fruit of the spirit for, um, my faith to kind of inform how I go about my life.

And, and a lot of my life is business. You know, a- any of us probably spend 40 hours a week at work, you know, or with, with our coworkers more than our kids o- often, and- And so for me, when I think about my faith is really a, a healthy boundary or a healthy, um, compartmentalization to not let work just expand.

Like in seventh grade when they teach you the here's a solid, here's a liquid, and here's a gas, the gas expands to the volume of the container that it's given, and, and work is that. And I'm such a driven person naturally, I think it would just [00:10:00] expand to infinite degree, and I would have a terrible marriage, and I would be a terrible father.

Mm-hmm. Um, but faith to me reminds me, um, from Jesus' words there and from his example that I don't want success over my soul, mm-hmm. And really that, that's kind of an individual decision for me. Maybe I could be saying that over here, but then everybody who works for me is just working, like, all the time, and it's just a machine.

But to me it even informs how I'm managing, and how I'm leading, and what I'm deciding for what projects we are gonna do and aren't gonna do, because I'm not interested in running a machine that's just chewing people up and spitting them out either. But I think all that comes from my faith. That's not like, "Oh, well Cameron's a great guy," or, "Cameron dot, dot, dot."

It's really, that's just, it's just Jesus in me that's kind of informing that care about that.

Scott Maderer: Giving you the, the model to work from. I, I think, uh, one of... A- and again, I'm gonna go back to what I said before, and that's what [00:11:00] makes it a ministry, um you know? But I, I won't beat that horse the whole show, I promise.

The, uh, uh, but the truth too is, you know, you're talking about leading a faithful example and I wanna, I wanna talk about that a little bit because, you know, I work with a lot of business owners, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of different people, and I work with people a lot in their personal life.

And, and obviously I work in time and money, and I think it shows up in both of those, where people get into this idea that more is always better, bigger is always better. Um, a- and- it's interesting how that... It, it is not that less is better-

But it's is it more really going to do anything for you that, that matters, you know that, that affects the kingdom, not just you personally, but affects the kingdom?

How have you kind of [00:12:00] balanced that or struggled with that as a business owner? 'Cause I think especially for small business owners, that shows up so, uh, w- let's face it, I'm sure everyone around you tells you, "You need to scale. You need to make it bigger. You need to grow. You need to..." Right? All the time.

Cameron Magee: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's been difficult. Our... I call us a small business. Again, most of our friends and stuff that are running alongside me in different sprints, they're very, very much entrepreneurs, and I, I... Sometimes people will call me an entrepreneur. They're, they're a little different to me. But the entrepreneur, um, i- you know, when I say entrepreneur, I think somebody who's gonna start McDonald's, who's gonna franchise it, who's gonna scale, who's gonna not 10X but, like, 1000X or something like that.

But I think, uh, I prefer small business owner or just something just a little bit more, uh, not blue collar, but just more tangible than entrepreneur, this beautiful French word and all that comes with it. Because, um, to me, um, we, [00:13:00] we could have scaled differently. I, we could have a... We're in Arkansas. We could have a shop in Texas and Oklahoma right now.

We could say, "Oh, we're, like, a regional thing." And so, and then we're gonna add a shop in Kansas, and then we're gonna go down to Louisiana and Alabama or whatever and just kinda start from there. Or honestly, when I started a production company in Arkansas, that, that's a hilarious idea. We should have done it in LA or New York to begin with, you know?

It doesn't make any sense here. And but that decision was, well, this is where I wanna raise my two little boys. We've got a, a six-year-old boy and a seven-year-old boy. It's 2026 when we're recording this. And they, um, they should grow up in these woods, you know, behind, be- but, you know, uh, here in town, you know?

Uh, my background of how I grew up around here. And, and so I think a lot of the, a lot of the way that I've chosen to spend the last 15 years, um, since the dorm room till now, has been based around kind of that concept of balance. [00:14:00] But again, it's not just about my family, it's about, uh, Sebastian who works for me, and he's got to be home in his bed all week this week.

We could totally, you know, a lot of production companies are really almost like tours. You know- Yeah ... they're like a concert touring group. And so if you join that company, you're on the road all the time. In the industry, what's really common, especially the last 10 years more and more each year, is for everybody to work as freelancers.

Well, freelancers typically are on a flight and they're gone w- making the highest day rate they can, and all of my entrepreneurial friends and coaches and advisors have told me 100 times, "Why are you still doing these goofy local events?" You know, on the same, like this week we're in Washington, DC doing a really nice large national conference, a typical event for us, 1,000 person general session breakout.

That's what we do, is AV for these big conferences, and we're doing a really goofy little local thing that's a few thousand dollars. Um, but we're doing that because I don't want everybody on our team to have to feel like they have to hit the road for us to make payroll. [00:15:00] It's like, "Hey, you know, you've been gone.

You've paid your dues for a few weeks. Just stay home and just do this little thing." They need sound, too. They need video, too. And, um, and just trying to build a company where that's okay, but that's not normal. Every other event production company gets really good at if you get really good at doing an eight-camera broadcast and all of a sudden ESPN says, "Can you go shoot college softball for us?"

Or whatever. Every, a- and if you sh- if you get good at college softball, there's only one team in Arkansas so you're gonna be gone 11, 12ths of the time, and, um, we just don't want to because I don't want growth at all costs. That makes for a very, I don't know, it's not a very, uh, s- you know, this podcast episode people may not be salivating over like, "Oh, this is the guy, he's the new Elon Musk or the new McDonald's guy," or whatever.

I just, I'm just not interested in that. I don't feel called to do that. I'm thankful for those guys and the products and the jobs that they have created. I have a lot of respect for them, too. Mm-hmm. But that's not what I think I need to be doing.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. And that's the part that I kind of wanted to point out.

It, it's not, 'cause I think we [00:16:00] almost always set it up as one is positive and the other is negative, and- Yeah ... and p- pick one, right?

Cameron Magee: There's a

Scott Maderer: place, there's a place for- There's a place for both. It's not, it's not that one is good and the other is bad, it's that, but are you doing it for the right reason?

Cameron Magee: That's

Scott Maderer: right. You know? 'Cause when you're chasing growth for growth's sake, what I've seen is people, there, there's no end to that.

Cameron Magee: That's right.

Scott Maderer: You could, you know you 10X it and, and the next question is, " great." Out of the 10. "When are you gonna 10X it again?" Yeah, that's right. You know? It's like, it's not, "Oh, good.

I'm done." It's, it's, "Oh, I gotta do it again. Oh, I gotta do it again. Oh, I gotta do it again." If, if that's the whole, if growth- Perfect ... is the end product, well then- Yeah ... that's all you ever after. It, it, you know, as opposed to something else and, and- Yeah ... you set it up a different way. Yeah. I love that. What, another area that I wanted to touch on, I know you've y- with what you do, you know, you've gotta lead a diverse team.

You've gotta- Yeah ... interact with a diverse set of people, uh, you know, in events, and, you know, this conference is that, and that conference is [00:17:00] something else, and th- this event's for a church, and this event's for whatever. You know? Not the opposite. For fill in the blank. Yeah. Um, so what have you done to kind of balance leading the team well, but also I know you feel called to, to be open about your faith and your beliefs and, and- Yeah

leading from that place. So how do you balance that in, in the workplace?

Cameron Magee: Yeah, this, this podcast we're recording right now is an example of that. You know, I, I wanna follow Paul's example. I'm not ashamed of the gospel, and I wanna be true to myself, but I also don't want to, um, ma- make people feel, you know, repulsed to be around us.

We, Avod 3 is not a, quote, unquote, "Christian company." I'm not sure there is such a thing. It's like that goofy cartoon, All Dogs Go to Heaven. There, there's some question there on like w- Christianity is about your personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't know if there is such a thing as a Christian company.

Perhaps there is. I'd love to talk about that sometime on a panel or something. But we, w- [00:18:00] I am a Christian. I'm a Jesus-following believer, and I own a company. And so I really try to separate myself from the company right when we first hire people, and I even have to do this in the interview process. I'll have people apply, um, you know, our, Arkansas's not huge.

There's three million people in the state, and I'll have people apply who know me or know my parents or, or know somebody who knows me or something, or they added me on Facebook, and they'll see how I'm posting on my personal Facebook. And they get all excited in the interview process. "Oh, I've been working for this crazy company, and I just can't wait to come work for a Christian company and, and all this stuff."

And I have to tell them, "Hey, we're not opening every meeting with prayer here. You know? Like, we're not just, you know, I'm not just walking around doing parables and talking about, you know, this is just like that time Jesus fed the 5,000. We're gonna pull off a miracle this w- this, that's not what we're doing around here, you know?"

Um, I have to almost sell some Christian applicants to calm down a little bit that th- I'm not, they're not joining a church. I'm not a pastor that's just gonna be opening the word all day, every day. But in that same breath, I have to [00:19:00] calm down other applicants who say, "Hey, I heard that you're a Christian, and I heard this is a Christian business, and, um, you know, I have a lot of problems with the church.

I have a lot of problems with Christianity." And I need to kind of understand with all... They're very respectful. They're like, "If that's, if that's you, that's cool, and that's not me, and that's cool, and let's just not work together, and that's okay. Like, I'll work somewhere else. You work somewhere else.

There's plenty of fish in the sea." And I have to calm those people down and say, "Hey, you are so welcome here." Mm-hmm. Um, and all the baggage that you have from the church, maybe someone hurt you, um, we're all broken people, but you have a commitment from me that I actually don't use this business as a platform for my faith.

I'm not gonna stand up at all of our team meetings and, and preach a sermon or, or we're not gonna sing a worship song or something like that. Um, yeah, a ton of the people here are believers, and, and that's great. A ton of them aren't, and I'm proud that, um, that they're both working here and both doing a good job.

And that is intentional and on purpose [00:20:00] because the first, I don't know, five or six years, I accidentally only hired Christians. I didn't mean to. Um, but that's who I naturally attracted, and it was a very clear... I don't know if I wanna say this legally, but it was almost an unconscious bias. All the HR training and stuff that I've done over the years is just trying to be a responsible business owner, realizing, oh, we think this person's a cultural fit.

Were they a cultural fit because they look and sound exactly like us, you know? Mm-hmm. And changing some of that lens just from growth and maturing of, are they a cultural add? Are they gonna add to our culture? And that's different than a cultural fit. And we are so much stronger today because of the diversity that we have.

I believe that diversity makes you stronger, just like if we were talking about a church right now. You need old people and young people in a church. You don't want a church to all be old people or all be young people. You need that diversity. It makes you stronger, and that's how we're set up here is that we've got people who are believers and people that aren't, and it's my...

If we wanna get back to the ministry thing, it's my, um, job [00:21:00] to model healthy Christianity to them, not as a religion but as a relationship with Jesus. And on their first week, I take them on a walk. We walk around the block. We talk about how the, we used to have the shop over here, and now we have a shop over here, and we talk about the company history.

And I tell my story and how I started at church, and that's important to me. I tell that story, but then I make a commitment to them that I'm not gonna use this as a platform for my faith, and I ask them to not use it as a platform for the Humane Society or whatever they're passionate about, and we agree that we're gonna work together.

Um, and I'm proud of that. Um, we've had a, we've had a lot of crazy stories I wouldn't say on the air, but a lot of crazy HR stories over the years that I'm really proud that people felt comfortable and safe here, um, you know, for those times.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. Yeah, one of the things, too, um- About that is, i- i- it's interesting because I, I think I have seen companies, not just [00:22:00] around faith but other things as well, where...

A- and I've seen leaders do this, where, you know, they want to hire people that are basically them. Yeah. You know? And, and, and then you end up with a team of everybody who looks the same, acts the same, and thinks the same.

Cameron Magee: Yikes.

Scott Maderer: When something different comes along, and it will, you know? That's right. You know?

That's

Cameron Magee: a baseball team full of third base people, you know? It's

Scott Maderer: not, you know... It, it ends up with, they, they face a challenge, and they don't even realize that they created that challenge themselves because what they were doing was hiring people that echoed them, you know? Um and instead of being deliberate about saying, "Well, no we need difference.

We, we need... Different is not bad. Different is different." You know? A- and by the same token, that doesn't mean you want to h- you know, you want to hire somebody that's gonna come in and cause trouble and create a fight, but there's a difference between being different and creating a problem, you know?

Cameron Magee: [00:23:00] How we align that, and I didn't have this verbiage the first 10 years, but the last five years I've really learned this from reading and just being diligent about it, it's really our core values.

And e- every, I bet every episode talks about this, and it's like, great, here we go on core values again, but we can all align on values. We've got five values. It's do these resonate with you? We talk about it in the interview process. We talk about it on their first week, 'cause we're gonna hire off our values, and then we're gonna fire off our va- the most of the people that I've fired over the years have been a core values violation type thing, where we say, "Hey, you're not...

This isn't working here because you're not valuing this," and everybody else is kind of, the body is almost n- uh, rejecting the kidney a little bit. You know, it's like, hey, this isn't gonna work. Um, we can all align on the values. I wrote those values. They're from me. A lot of them are biblically based technically, but they're really about things that the right character of person wants to do.

We can't have a bad egg here or a villain running around. But we align under the values.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. And well, and again, I've seen a lot of [00:24:00] times where we create a mission statement, we create a list of core values But everybody at the company is like, "Yeah, but we d- we don't really mean those."

Cameron Magee: You know?

We talk about them constantly. They're on the wall right over here in my office, they're on the conference room wall. Every company has them on the wall. The thing to do is to talk about them. We have a monthly meeting where we, we call them out. We, we actually hand out these, they're really silly, but these little gold star stickers, and we ask the team not just for me to hand out, "Hey, Ryan did a great job last week.

Here's a gold star from you on this. You were really embodying this core value." But we ask the team to give them to each other. Mm. So you might see something where they're like, "Hey, th- you really went above and beyond here," or, or, "This was incredible," or, "You actually did the hard thing here, and we wanna celebrate that."

And those simple little gold star stickers remind us and keep the core values top of mind. At the end of the year, we do, like, a, a real metal gold star, like, we, you know, give them a, a, a trophy-type thing for the team that, that's embodied it the most. But those are what really align us. Yeah. And for me and for the believers, they can see Jesus' example woven into those.

Our first [00:25:00] one is here to serve. It's all about being a servant. And so we can see that the Son of Man didn't come to be served, he came to serve, you know- Right ... and give his life as a ransom for many. To the non-believers, they say, "Oh, I love that. You know, I wanna be a servant. That's great." And, and we can align on that and, and that's an important difference.

Scott Maderer: Well, it's back to, to preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words. You know, sometimes we just preach it by showing up and doing- That's right. That's right ... doing the right thing, right? Um, I, I tell people one of the greatest compliments I ever got from a client who was, uh, a uh, they were from Dubai and, and Muslim, and after we worked together a few years, as we were stopping working together, uh, he said he wanted to pay me a compliment, but he wasn't sure I would take it as a compliment.

And I'm like, "You know, we worked together for three years. You can say anything you want to me. You know I'm not gonna be offended." He said, "You're Christian, and I know you're Christian, but you're not annoying about it." Wow. And I'm like, "Dude, I'll take that as a compliment. Absolutely." You know?

Cameron Magee: That's so good.

Scott Maderer: 'Cause I'm annoyed by [00:26:00] some of them, too. You know, it's okay. I get it, you know? That's

Cameron Magee: so good.

Scott Maderer: How, how would you define success now for you and for the company? And I separate those on purpose. How, how would you define success for those, uh, both yourself personally as well as the company?

Cameron Magee: Yeah. I would, I would...

That's good. I would kind of break that into, like, early, middle, and late stages as a company. Not, we're 15, so not that it's late stage, like I'm ready to roll over and die or we're done. We're just getting started. I'm looking forward to doing another 25 years. Um, but early, middle, and late on our current timeline.

You know, those first five years, the early years, success for me and the company, you can kinda hear both halves of that, was get set up, figure out how to do the work. How, how do we do good events? And so I'm literally at the front leading those crews, and what gear does it take, and what kind of checklist does it take, and how do we know when we're show-ready, how do we know when we can open doors, how do we know afterwards that we've closed every loop and sent the recordings and everything's good and sent the thank [00:27:00] you card?

And that's the first five years. And so luckily we were married. Laura and I got married in college the same year I started the business, so we were married, but you know, those first five years in any career, she was working her butt off, I was working my butt off. She's an ER nurse. And so it was okay to just both just grind it out.

That's what you do when you're 21 years old, you know? Uh, hard work. The middle stage was more about taking that and getting it into building a team. I still remember the first time I w- had the courage to double-book us. The first day I was like, "Well, I'm gonna say yes to two shows on the same day."

'Cause before then it was like, well, if I'm the crew chief, I ha- we can only do one show at a time. But there was this perfect day where it's like, well, we need the audio gear over here and the lighting gear over here, so I'll go do this one, and I grabbed a guy and said, "You go do that one." And um, that was a huge breakthrough moment where I realized that show went fine.

I think they actually liked him better. Interesting. I'm not that great. I'm not hot stuff. We need to get him on more shows instead of me, and started pulling myself back a bit and then just [00:28:00] multiplying his position. We have five of him today. And so now during that second era, success was make it where people hire Evolve3 and they don't even know or care who Cameron is.

And so in a way, that's where I say I'm entrepreneurial, where it's like, well, McDonald's doesn't care if Ray is on the grill, um, they care 'cause it's consistent. But that middle era was about building the team, and so success felt like can events happen without me even being there? And then I think maybe later, you know, maybe around now or something like that in a more mature way or long term thing, I really care about how our brand is represented.

And in a, in an even kind of weirder way, I care about are we growing capabilities over time? A program that I'm in called Strategic Coach by Dan Sullivan talks about, uh, valuing capability over cash.

And now as a small business owner and as an entrepreneur, cash is the oxygen. It's the thing that keeps the airplane in the air.

You [00:29:00] know, I'm a pilot and I love to fly, and you can't run out of fuel. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are, if you're out of fuel, you're going down at a 500 feet a minute, you know? That's a problem. And so y- you've gotta have fuel, um, and you've gotta have cash. But I've really tried the last few years to look longer term at, okay, I know we're not gonna make payroll Friday, we're gonna have to go into debt to do this, or I know we're gonna have a situation over here where this deposit invoice is not gonna make it on time and so we're short on cash.

But not- Not firing people or not, like cutting the utility, you know, just crazy stuff I did early on that was like, well we've made it bigger than Cameron and we've made it a team, but, like, now we're riding this roller coaster. I've tried to be more about, well, we've got a few weeks off, let's not panic.

We don't have any shows to do. What capabilities can we get out in the shop and work on? Can we retool some of our road cases where they're faster for setup and, and easier to deploy and less maintenance? And just having a calmer peace about We, we've been provided for in the past, we're gonna be provided for in the future.

In fact, we've [00:30:00] got dates booked three weeks from now. It's just that this small drought has this event moved two weeks later this year, and this event moved to two weeks earlier, so we're bored for a few weeks. That's okay. Let's grow our capabilities. And that's kind of what I think success looks like for me as a leader individually.

It's me at home, where I'm not up here just grinding out, sweating through that sales gap. Um, but also success as a business, saying, you know, we can weather these peaks and valleys and, um... But I've learned so many lessons through that, Scott, that we jump back just doing it the wrong way so many times.

Scott Maderer: Talk a little bit about that. What are some of the things that have taught you to focus on capabilities to realize that you don't have to, quote, "ride the rollercoaster all the time," and, and, you know, multiplying yourself. I mean, all of those are lessons that I think most of us could take away.

I especially see, and, and I'd like your, on the multiplying yourself part, I, where I see a lot of leaders hang on [00:31:00] is the stuff that they love to do-

Cameron Magee: Oh, yeah ...

Scott Maderer: but it really doesn't have to be them doing it. You know? Yes. It, it is actually something that you could delegate, "But man, I love doing it. It's so much fun."

How did you overcome that?

Cameron Magee: Well, that's me too. A- and, and, and I get that, but I, I, I could speak to it a little bit. I, it's always a work in progress, but I'd hap- Yeah ... happy to speak to it as an inspiration others, not, not to come down from the mountain and say I have it all figured out. Um, but, uh, the phrase I use for that is unique ability.

Again, that's another shout-out two in a row to this Dan Sullivan guy, great author. But he talks about unique ability, and there are things that you're gifted at doing. It's how I opened the show today. I was talking about I'm r- I've been really gifted at AV, I've been really gifted at small business.

That's great, but I'm motivated to make the business run without me, because I wanna be able to take a whole week off and my cell phone not ring. I wanna be able to be a good husband and do an annual honeymoon with my wife again, an anniversary trip where we go and, and don't stay glued to our cell phones the whole time.

And so I absolutely wanna get to operate my unique ability [00:32:00] and, uh, and w- you know, if we buy new gear or something, I love to kind of be the one to test it and see, like, do we really like this? 'Cause if everybody got sick, I'd have to be the one to troubleshoot it and fix it. I wanna make sure I like what we have in the shop.

But I've really tried to build a business that doesn't have to be me, that I'm getting, I'm choosing to play shortstop on the baseball team if we have a, if we have a situation I need to take the field. But if I'm the shortstop player all the time, there is no head coach. And just realizing kind of the higher calling of, like, you can't, you can't have a leaderless organization.

Without, you know, without leadership and without vision, the people perish. And so all the times that I've tried to be the head chef- At this restaurant we're running, I realize there's no one actually keeping an eye on things . And so I'm back here cooking up a storm and having a great time, and I didn't realize we never unlocked the front door.

You know? Or just something crazy. One of my guys, uh, in a staff meeting one time, he used this example. He's from Chile, and he, I guess for whatever reason, he did some, like, fire safety training one time in Chile. And I guess in Chile, the, the fire [00:33:00] department keeps one guy... If no matter how many firemen show up, one guy's not allowed to fight the fire.

If, if only five firemen show up and there should've been 10, they, they only fight it with four, because one person stands as far away from the fire as they possibly can and just keeps an eye on things. And realizes we've got four men fighting this fire at the front door of this house, and on the second story there's a kid hanging out the window.

Somebody grab a ladder And so I feel it's a higher calling and a more important thing to stay back and see it run. And then absolutely, I'm the head tinkerer. We have nine shows in 10 days right now. We have a culture of what we call next time notes. Every member of every crew has a journal.

They're writing down what we need to do differently next time, and what we need to do the same. I'm the chief student of reading those next time notes. I'm writing my own as I'm on site. And so I'm making all these little, you know, tickets and support ticket type things on the back end. We need to fix this, and let's work on that.

We're always tinkering on those things, and I'm happy to tinker, um, but it's my job to be [00:34:00] the leader. And it's, I train that in our production managers who lead the crews as well. We have a phrase called get out of the lift. It's really easy when you're responsible for a show, and we have a problem over here, to jump in the scissor lift and go fix it.

But if you're in the lift, there's no one managing. You're doing, not managing. And so we- we're really maniacal about get out of the lift, do what only you can do. Lead, that's a great book. Uh, McKeown I think is the author of that one. I don't have it in here right now. Um, but just some great principles of realizing, um, you can't get too sucked into it, um, because you have to be the leader.

Um, hopefully I've answered your question. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. We can talk more about that if you wanna dig in more.

Scott Maderer: And there's another, uh, expression and article, and I, I want your take on it. Uh, speaking of leadership, uh, I don't know if you ever read it, but there's a great article from Harvard Business Review back in the, uh, back in the day, I think it was Goldsmith who wrote it, called It's Not My Monkey.

And, and the phrase-

Cameron Magee: Not my circus, not my monkeys?

Scott Maderer: Yeah. [00:35:00] Well, it's just not my monkey, okay? And, and what he's talking about is this, he's like when, when you're a leader and one of your employees is walking down the hall and comes up to you with a problem, he says, "I want you to picture that they have this chin- this giant chimpanzee on their back."

And you know, they s- they come to you, they, "Cameron, we've got this problem. Here's the problem." And your t- your question as a leader is, is that my monkey or is that their monkey? You know? That's good. Should, should I take the problem on?

That's good.

Sometimes I should. Yeah. Or should I say, " no, that's your monkey.

You need to go keep the monkey and solve the problem." You know? And, uh, uh, so what, uh, what do you do to kinda help your team develop that? You know, the, the idea of, yeah, you're the leader, you're the, the problem solver, you're that- But only if it's your problem.

Cameron Magee: Yeah, this is a tough question. My, uh, I, I got an executive assistant about five years ago, and that was a a tough thing because it- being from Arkansas, [00:36:00] it's kind of weird to have an executive assistant.

Maybe that's normal in New York City or something, but it's kind of, "You have an executive assistant?" And we use the acronym EA, and I joke with her and call her my entrepreneur's assistant, 'cause it's different being an entrepreneur's assistant than an executive assistant. It's, you have to put up with a lot more with my crazy ideas.

But my first executive assistant back in the day, she used this phrase, um, that kind of haunts me, and she used this phrase, "Does this have to be Cameron?" And so what she's talking about, kind of like this chimpanzee on the back. She's ... Anytime I'm doing anything, she would just, uh, ruthlessly monitor my time usage, which is helpful to have a, an outside person looking at you.

You know, you think, "Oh, I have to get all this emails done," whatever. When someone's just staring at you being like, "This is interesting. Is this what we're doing all afternoon?" And realize like, oh, maybe all these emails didn't need to come to me, or maybe someone else could've been CC'd, or maybe I should let them respond first, and then I can chime in if necessary.

And the phrase, "Does this have to be Cameron?" Now, we don't use that phrase with the team because it sounds very arrogant and very egotistical to say like, "Does [00:37:00] this have to be Cameron?" That's not good leadership to walk around and kind of hands on your hips, "Does this have to be Cameron?" But I have that haunting my head and- Paige, who's my assistant now, knows that phrase quite well because she has to catch me doing stuff that is like, "This doesn't have to be you.

This could be someone else, and let's build a system where this is someone else," I think is the first way I'd answer that. And then maybe a second answer is I love to coach. Gosh, I love growth. I am really hard on myself in growing. I love to read books that basically challenge my thinking and tell me I thought I was doing something right, and it turns out I've been doing it completely wrong, and we need to change that.

And, and so I love to be the team coach. And it's natural for people when they're stuck to come to the coach and be like, "Hey, I'm stuck." But instead of, "I'm stuck, here you go," and handing it off, as you said, the chimpanzee, it's, "I'm stuck. You know what?" And then asking the simple phrase, I think this is John Townsend, "What do you need?"

Yeah. It's a very powerful phrase, w- what do you need? Because, um, all human beings the number one ... This is Henry Cloud, but he's friends [00:38:00] with John Townsend, says, "The greatest human need is to understand and to be understood." And so if they're stuck, it's my job to, to help them feel understood and to show them that I understand.

Um, but then it is up to them to grow through it and, and to work that out. And if it's a problem I've solved, I can coach them directly, "Hey, maybe think about it this way, and good luck." And if it's a problem I haven't solved, I may go with them. I may be like, "Well, we've never had, um, uh, a deer walk into our show before."

We had a, a show here in Arkansas where a deer walked in last week. First time in 15 years. The show was over, but a deer got spooked in the parking lot and kind of whatever deers do, bound. Deers? Deer? Whatever deer do, they, he just bounded in. It was a girl deer, no, no horns. So that's one. It's like, "You know, neither one of us really know what to do.

Let me g- I'll have your back on this one. Let's see how this is gonna go." Luckily, the facility person at that venue is a real redneck and tackled the deer and carried it. Fascinating to witness. Um, so that was taken care of. [00:39:00]

Scott Maderer: Boy, there's a, there's a sentence you don't hear every day.

Cameron Magee: Golly. Uh, yeah, here in Arkansas.

Most of our shows are on the road, but that was a fascinating story. Um, but yeah, I, I think it's important to not take it from them. Just like parenting, it's easy to helicopter a parent and not, not let them fall, and kind of follow them around the playground where they don't accidentally slip off the monkey bars.

But it's only about 20 inches off the ground, let's let them fall, you know? That's my wife, the ER nurse speaking. She's like, "They're not gonna break anything on the monkey bars. Let them go for it." But I think the knowledge of her knowing what it takes to break a bone gives her a little bit of the courage to face it and let them grow the capability on their own.

Um, but that's not normal. That's not natural, of course.

Scott Maderer: Well, a- and besides, she's an ER nurse. If they do break a bone, she knows a couple places. Yeah,

Cameron Magee: fine, yeah. She's like, "Oh, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, this is different. It's all right."

Scott Maderer: I, I, I, I know where to take them. It's all good. Yeah, yeah. Um, the, uh, it w- but yeah, it is...

And I mean, I, I always hesitate when we talk [00:40:00] about children analogies in business but there is that analogy of- Yeah ... If they don't ever- have a problem- Yeah ... that's equally bad to if all you do is stick them with problems, you know? Right. Both of those are bad. True. It's just that, that middle ground is, is where we wanna be, uh, so often.

Yeah. So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else about, uh, your journey the work that you do there at Avid the... Anything else you'd like to share?

Cameron Magee: Yeah, I think, you know, I, I do these podcasts, um, the past year I've done so much more of these.

We have somebody placing me in these. I'm doing a lot more of them. I do them to be an inspiration to people. When, if I, if somebody in my hometown says, "Hey, you know, I'm thinking about starting a business. Can we go get a pancake and talk about it?" Or something like that, I love to talk to people, and I've, I've realized that, um, even people who don't work for me anymore, I'll run into them and they'll say, "You know, I still use that thing that we did when I was there.

You know we, I've [00:41:00] implemented that in my personal life. I love this." And so I don't do these, again, out of, like, arrogance or being egotistical or something. I do them because so many people have encouraged me and said, "You should help spread that a little bit. You should amplify that a little." That's really why I take them on.

Of course, the business case of me doing these is just to make sure more and more people have heard about our small business that does AV for conferences. And so it's important if this is like I'm the sponsor for 15 seconds, that I do an ad to say, "If you have a conference that needs audiovisual, I hope you would give us a call."

Most of my best, um, leads and best referrals over the years have come from people when they're stuck, and they say, "We have this conference and we've been using the hotel, and they're just not doing a great job, and we wanna try something different." And a lot of those are just I'll jump on Zoom and help them look at their old quote, and maybe they're spending too much or not spending enough on certain things.

But I think that's all I would add before we keep going, Scott, is just if somebody actually knows a conference or has something that they're like, "Yeah, I'd love to look at this," half the time we're probably already booked those dates. We have some recurring conferences, but I'd love to just be on Zoom and help be a free consultant to [00:42:00] even look at their stuff for them.

But that's all I would add, just a silly little commercial break for our business. But we can

Scott Maderer: get back to this. That's not silly at all. Absolutely. So my brand is Inspired Stewardship, and I run things through that lens of, of stewardship, and yet I've discovered over the years that that's one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

So when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you?

Cameron Magee: Stewardship to me is around the people that I get to be around. Uh, almost, almost daily if I'm with anyone from my, of my leaders or we're having lunch together or whatever, I'm looking across the table into these people's eyes and realizing this person has chosen to trust 40 hours or more a week of their life to this company, in my hands as their leader.

They're looking to me and say, "Hope, hope you make a good decision this week, bud. You know, I hope you don't screw up something with the bank. I hope you don't get us in legal trouble. I hope we don't get into a contract thing that's gonna make us have to do layoffs or whatever." I view stewardship [00:43:00] mostly through the lens of people care, and I, I can't believe my wife married me.

I think she's one of a kind. I'm thrilled to be married to Laura. I- it's a gift every day. I love Laura, and her father-in-law's in town this week. He came up to see some, some baseball. Her, her mother is here, my father-in-law, her mother and father are here, and, uh, they're staying with us. And any hour I'm with him, I just think back to when I asked him if I could marry her, and I think, "I gotta make this man proud.

I gotta make this man proud that I'm not a deadbeat, that I'm not a no count, you know, that I'm taking good care of his daughter." When I look at these two adorable little boys that God has given us, we... Our oldest, Jack, we had. Uh, our youngest, Luke, we adopted. I look at Luke and think, "Man, his parents, his birth parents selflessly chose to give him up, not to have an abortion, not to, you know, to g- they gave him to us."

It's my job to steward his first 18 years to help man, help [00:44:00] him turn into a man and, and grow up as a, as an old school man, a cowboy man who's got principles and dillig- you know and courage and character and... And so I look at stewardship through the people that God has placed in my life more than anything.

Our church, our ministry, I lead worship. I'm the kind of the fill-in guy when our, when our guy needs to have a, a well-deserved week off. Um, I play drums in a '90s country cover band. I can't believe we get to do that. We just passed 10 years. The stewardship of realizing, like, the whole band's counting on me to not get off beat here.

Like, I need to do a good job for these people. This is a gift that we have the freedom to play this music. Uh, I'm a pilot. I, I fly airplanes. I can't believe that the FAA still lets people do this. Get in these small Cessna planes, but there's really not that many incidents where we're harming other people.

There's plane crashes, there's, there's errors and engine failures and things, but When you really think about it, all it takes is one or two of us pilots screwing that up to ruin it for everybody. And so to me, [00:45:00] stewardship in my life is realizing how blessed I am at everything that God has given me, and making good decisions with that so that I'm making him proud as my Father, just like my father-in-law, that what he's given me, um, that I'm using it for his glory and for his kingdom and not just me having fun or something, you know?

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everyone. Uh, imagine for a moment I could invent this magic machine and with this machine I was able to take you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years. But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life, see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left.

What impact do you hope you've had in the world?

Cameron Magee: I love this question. And I... You were gracious enough to share this question with me beforehand so I could be prepared, and I appreciated that. I thought a lot about it, and it's, it's consistent with, [00:46:00] I wrote my own obituary as, like, an interesting exercise a couple years ago.

It's a powerful thing. Donald Miller had a little workshop that helped you write your own obituary. Just- This is

Scott Maderer: my version of that without asking people to write an obituary Oh. Oh ... 'cause I always think that's a little morbid.

Cameron Magee: It's morbid, my gosh. I, it was, it hit me just right at this right season, and I had some time and I did it.

And I want people to look at me and say, "That guy helped me grow." It's very important to me, whether somebody works with me at work or someone at church spends time with me in ministry or a personal friend, just a friendship or a family member, that they say, "He loved me for who I was and accepted me for who I was w- even if we met as junior high punks and we were idiots."

Yeah. "But he pushed me, and towards my goals." Not, not it, when I'm saying my, their own goals, not where I wanted to push them, not a parent trying to push a kid to play a sport [00:47:00] they don't wanna play. But that, "He loved me and cared about me and met me where I was, but as much as he accepted me there, he didn't settle for me staying there.

He was curious with me and he asked, you know, 'What are your goals and where do you wanna be, and what's stuck right now? And don't stay there and don't settle for that.'" I had a flight instructor that, one of my favorite relationships my whole life, and I only got to have him for about six months 'cause I, I caught him right before he got moved up to, like, American Airlines or whatever.

He was at, he was in his last little season of being a flight instructor before he was eligible to go fly the jets. And I'll never forget, I had just gotten so stuck in my flying. We could not get past this one milestone to send me off for my test. And, um, he, he started tapping on the glass of this little instrument in the cockpit.

He would just tap, it was super annoying. I won't tap on my webcam, but he would just tap tap And he was trying to draw my attention to this one [00:48:00] gauge that for whatever reason I just was settling. I was accepting that that gauge was fluctuating a little more than acceptable. And finally he just said, he just got a little brutal with me, and he said, "Don't settle for that."

And he said, "I've been flying with you for weeks now. We've just been, every lesson we just come up and you just fluctuate, and you just kind of settle for this, and it's, it's, you're never gonna be a pilot." You know? "You cannot settle for this gauge being this volatile. Don't settle for that." And so I want people to look back and say, "He loved me, but he loved me enough with truth and love and grace, but truth, to say, 'Hey, I love you, I care about you, and, and, um, you know, y- you say you're wanting to lose weight, and, um, uh, you've been saying that for three years, and I guess I'm abrasive enough and a big enough jerk to point out, like, you're not losing any weight.

It's fine if you don't want to, but you're not, you know? And, and let's talk about [00:49:00] it.'" And nobody does that. And so I kind of just want to be rude enough and abrasive enough and comfortable in my own skin enough to just ask them, "If you still want it, great, let me help you work through it together. Not that I'm a weight loss coach, but I can help you talk it out.

But if you don't want to or your goals have changed, that's cool too, 'cause they're your goals, they're not my goals." But I want people to look back and say, "Man, that guy had the courage and the confidence and the kindness to help me grow." That's what's most important to me. Well, I don't care if they like me.

Uh, I care that they grew and, um, I'm willing to, I'm willing to be on thin ice a little bit at times with like, "Man," like, "I'm kind of mad at him right now," you know? Um, that's really my goal in life.

Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap? What's coming next as you continue on your journey?

Cameron Magee: Yeah, so we, as a, as a business, we're pretty much fully national now.

We, we still do stuff in town, like I said, but most of our kind [00:50:00] of what's next in our journey is, is essentially all national growth. So as you can imagine, not that many national conferences come through Arkansas. They go from Chicago to, you know, Houston to LA to New York or whatever and so our growth as a company is dependent on when we do a good job for somebody, usually they retain us for a long time.

But our growth is all, is becoming all about asking for referrals and saying like, "Well, who else do you know?" And, "What are these other conferences?" Because people don't typically want to roll the dice by trying a new AV team. AV for these conferences is over $100,000 typically, and so you don't really like to, you don't do that on a cold call.

You don't do that on, you know, "I saw an ad and I'm gonna try these guys." And so our future company growth is all about refer- referrals of these- Large national annual conferences. My personal growth professionally, um, is really all about growing as a leader. I'm not good at [00:51:00] PR-type, um, I don't know what you would even call it, almost like cultural management.

I, I'm pretty... I'm kind of an engineer, and I'm pretty quick to be like, "We're doing this now." And so I personally am growing a lot through thinking about the ripple effect of, like, making sure that I've said something three times in three different ways before I just squeeze the trigger and make a decision, and making sure the whole team knows about it and we're all on board.

And that's really what I'm kind of growing through right now, is almost the diplomacy and the tact of being a leader, just 'cause of Aud3's bigger now than we used to be. I used to, like I said, just kinda be a soccer player on the field with a team, and it's like, "I just passed you the ball," and, " let's go."

Now I'm, like, stuck up in the press box or something, and so a lot can get miscommunicated, um, through under-communication, um, uh, if I don't just bathe things in tripling up in communication with intentions. And so that's that. And then personally, I'm just trying to continue to have e- a more and more vibrant personal life every year.[00:52:00]

Um, you know, I used to just be fine with, oh, I s- volunteer at church. I have this small business, I volunteer at church. That's me. Then it was, well, y- I think I wanna start flying airplanes, you know? And then it was, well, I wanna start playing drums in this '90s country cover band my friend is starting. And now that my boys are getting a little older, they're into stuff.

Uh, they wanna go fishing. I'm a terrible fisherman, but I wanna have a vibrant personal life where I get, I guess, good at fishing or at least better at putting these worms on the hooks. Uh, and, uh, and get good at kinda having a vibrant personal life. Um, too many entrepreneurs and small business owners don't stop work because they don't have something calling them to it.

It's just like you can't stop being an alcoholic if you don't replace it with something. You can't just say, "Oh, I'm just gonna sit here now." You have to kind of replace that with something, and there's some gospel truth in there as well. Um, but that's kinda me as a company and me as an individual professionally and me as a personal just individual, what my [00:53:00] future looks like for the next three years.

But I'll be here at Aud3. We're, we're not going anywhere. I'm not trying to sell it or get acquired. I wanna run this for another 25 years, and this is kinda my little restaurant we've started. And so I still wanna be tinkering in it when I'm, quote-unquote, "retired." But yeah, nothing- ... nothing major changes there.

Just I'll be here doing this and meeting more and more national conferences and taking care of the AV forum, you know?

Scott Maderer: And you can find out more about Cameron and Avad3. Um, uh, you find Avad at Avad number 3 the numeral, .com. Of course, I'll have a link to that one, and then Cameron would also invite anyone to connect with him on LinkedIn as C-McGee.

Of course, I'll put a link to that as well. So you can find links to both of those in the show notes. Cameron, what else would you like to share with the listener?

Cameron Magee: I just, I hope they connect. I, I love... What's been so fun about these podcasts is people connecting with me on LinkedIn afterwards, and just, and just getting to know, "Oh, that's cool.

You run a consulting business," or, "That's cool, you, you're an EOS Integra." [00:54:00] I love connecting with people. That's the weirdest part about this show, Scott, is we've been here talking. We have no idea who's listening. I'm used to, you may know, but I don't know, and I'm used to live events where if somebody tells a joke, somebody laughs.

You know, this is a little different, being on these podcasts. So I hope that people will connect and say hi, and, and just, I, I wanna, I wanna kind of meet the audience the way that you would after you, after a show. You'd stand around and say hi, you know? And so that's what I'm looking forward to. But thank- thanks for having me.

I hope it was an interesting episode for you. I hope it was inspiring to somebody out there to see my little story and see themselves in it and see the gospel in it, and thanks for having me.

Scott Maderer: Absolutely.

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