Episode 1660 Interview with Matthew Jandernoa About Living a Steadfast Life

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Scott Maderer: [00:00:00] Thanks for joining us on episode 1,660 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

Matthew Jandernoa: Hi, my name is Matthew Jandernoa and I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasure to live out your calling. God has created you and designed you for a purpose.

And if you wanna know what that is and get in touch with that. I encourage you to listen to this podcast, the Inspired Stewardship podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

It's like this, you know, feedback loop of the more present you should try, the more present you think you need to be. Um, or the more, the more you make being present and idle and like the thing you're trying to pursue, the less present you're gonna be because you're not gonna recognize the [00:01:00] patterns that need to change.

Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the inspired Stewardship podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself.

Invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

In today's podcast episode, I interview Matthew Jenno. I asked Matthew about how to motivate yourself to do those things that you don't want to do. Matthew also shares how he builds a family culture. And how he can help you do as well.

Matthew Jandernoa: And I also asked Matthew to share with you how he

Scott Maderer: uncovered

Matthew Jandernoa: his

Scott Maderer: calling.

I have a great book that's been out for a while [00:02:00] now called Inspired Living. Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about that book over an inspired living book.com. It'll take you to a page where there's information and you can sign up to get some mailings about it, as well as purchase a copy there.

I'd love to see you get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. Matthew is a husband and a father of two in 2024. He founded steadfast life LLC to help others become more human and live the abundant life that Jesus Christ promises. When we stop being fully human, we stop cultivating saints, and his vision is to make virtue human again in the church so that we follow our mission of being a light on the hill and effectively lead others to new life in Christ.

Welcome to the show, Matthew.

Matthew Jandernoa: Hey Scott. [00:03:00] Nice to be here.

Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I look forward to our conversation today. So I shared a little bit in the intro about some of the, the work you do over at Steadfast Life and kind of a little bit about your path. But the truth is, I always think of intros or bios and all of those things is, first off, they only kind of show where we are now.

They never actually show how we got there. Mm-hmm. So take us back in time a little bit and share a little bit about your journey and, and what's brought you to the point where this is the, the work you feel called to do.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah, no, thank you for asking that. Where to begin? So I, I grew up in a, you know, a small, or not a small depends on who you talk to.

Youngest of five, but Catholic family and both my parents worked for the church and. I'd always kind of had my faith as a really intellectual subject that was, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't super [00:04:00] personal till I was about 14 and I, my cousin twisted my arm to go to a retreat that I did not want to go to.

And during that time I just really encountered Christ in a deeper way for the first time in a more personal way. And yeah, I think just since then really it's, it's been an overall uphill endeavor. In the sense that I'm going up, but, uh, I think that's something that's really important to, to reiterate for a lot of people, including myself, is that it's not a, you have your conversion moment and then it's sunshine and roses for, for the rest of your life.

And you know, getting older, I, uh, I did mission work for two years with a group called Net Ministries, uh, Catholic Charismatic Group. And then after that I was in the seminary for a year for the Catholic priesthood and. During that point, I realized that, you know, discern through discernment that I was called to married life and not the priesthood.

And so after that, I was studied at [00:05:00] Amar University, studied psychology, and I thought that would lead me to counseling. 'cause that's generally where psychology takes people.

But, uh, after taking a couple years off of school. I, you know, I got married, uh, now I have two beautiful children and a third on the way.

Uh, we're very excited about. And, but yeah, so I tried to pursue counseling and so I went to, to graduate school for a semester. Uh, before that I had started my coaching business and I'll, I'll go back to that in a second. But yeah, I just realized that the counseling model, uh, I'm not saying that counseling is not a good thing, but I just realized that that wasn't what the Lord was calling me.

And I also realized that there's a group of people that I can specifically help by not being a counselor. People who don't want to get a weird counselor, people who don't want to get a diagnosis, people who the list kind of goes on sometimes. And [00:06:00] so I, I realize that this is really where I'm calling with what it's calling me to.

And kind of how I got into it was having been a missionary and having been to the seminary, I had spent a lot of time. Mentoring other people intentionally or unintentionally. And there was a particular person 20 summer of 2021 that I ran into in a parking lot at a beach. I was trying to meet up with some friends and was in the wrong parking lot and was waiting there.

And this guy stumbles over to me and asks, he was very drunk. He asked for a, a light for his cigarette, and I had a lighter, so I gave him one. We're chatting for a little bit, and my mentality is, if you're ever in a situation where someone's trying to talk to you, don't you wanna talk to them? Just bring up Jesus, because they're either gonna get turned off and go away, or they're going to be interested and there's gonna be a chance to evangelize and bring him closer to Christ.

So the latter was the case with this guy and ended up praying with him, and he actually [00:07:00] wept on my shoulder, was just like so blown away. Like, who are you? Why are you here? What's going on? So I actually walked with him, um, not literally, but for about three years and kind of just mentored him, coached him.

He was struggling with alcoholism and bad relationships and a lot of other things. And that was really the, the, the launch point for. Starting my coaching business, uh, a number of years later, I was in the social work field as a skills worker, uh, helping people develop coping skills, social skills, all the behavioral skills stuff, and it felt very empty to me.

One, because I couldn't talk about Jesus or even the idea of the good life in that context. But then also I would go into these houses and I'd be working with this kid, and the parent would say, Hey, they have anger issues and obedience issues, and they weren't wrong. But what they failed to see was the breakdown in the family.

And I would, you know, there was one in particular where I would go [00:08:00] there and the kids would be having dinner at the table and the parents would be having dinner on the couch watching a movie or playing video games. And, uh, I'm like, do you guys not see the disconnect? But that's the reality is that the things you don't see, you don't know.

That you don't see. And so I would go home from work on the phone usually. Chatting with a buddy, helping them through something. And my wife after that had happened for a number of months, said, I love it when you come home on the phone, which was kind of funny to hear. 'cause in my mind I was like, what?

Don't you want me to be present or something? But the reason she said that was because I, she said that you're, you just come alive when you're helping somebody else in that way. And then she asked, is there any way you can make money doing that? Like, can you do that full time? And I hadn't thought about that.

You know, and, and to some extent I still do, but it's like I I feel weird asking people to pay me for helping them in that way. Just because again, being a missionary, the idea is [00:09:00] everything should be free. So I thought about it and ended up starting a website, not super convicted or like I was convicted about what I was doing, but I was just scared and nervous and all that kind of stuff.

And so after my daughter was born in 2024. Uh, I was praying with an icon of St. Joseph and just meditating on the Holy Family's flight to Egypt, and it was just really struck by how Joseph had doubts. But the Lord basically said, despite those doubts, one, I want you to take Marian as your wife. Two, after you know Jesus is born and everything, I want you to flee to Egypt, which is, you know, hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Where you don't know anybody, you don't have any money, you don't have a job lined up, you don't have a house figured out. They don't speak your language, they don't practice your religion. You know? It's like basically just go do the impossible. You got it. And I was thinking about that and I was just realizing that [00:10:00] whatever doubts Joseph had, had, we been totally eradicated by the time Egypt was over because he made a massive leap of faith, risked everything to some extent and.

Came out okay. And I, not audibly, but kind of heard the Lord say to me, flee to Egypt. And I took that to my wife and I was like, is he calling me to really get deeper in my job? That's kind of in Egypt. Uh, we had plans to move. Are you, is he calling us to move earlier? What I did not say was, is he calling me to jump full-time into life coaching and quit my job?

Nagging thought in the back of my head, but I was like, that's ridiculous. That's not prudent. That's not a good father and husband. You know, I'm, I need to provide for my family. But my wife said to me, well, do you think he's calling me to jump full time into life coaching? And I was like, ah, okay, I, we gotta pray about this now and take it seriously.

So we prayed about it [00:11:00] and talked about it, talked over some friends, and a week later I quit my job, just jumped full time into it with. Half a website and that was basically it. And the, the ministries that I had served with, I ran into the co, the alumni coordinator and she asked me what I was doing and I told that I was, you know, doing this Catholic life coaching business and she said, oh my gosh, we need to talk.

And developed a partnership with them, like three weeks after I quit my job, uh, to help the missionaries make that transition back to regular life. To quote her, she said, I think it's divinely appointed that we partnered with you. I was like, what the heck? This is crazy. What's going on? And that partnership led to another partnership and that just really kicked my business off the ground and.

It's been all over the place. Emotionally, financially, it's not like, again, like I was saying earlier about that conversion process, it's not like you, you, you give everything to Jesus and then you make a million dollars and all of your worries are gone. [00:12:00] It's not how he works usually. And so just in this whole process, there was a month where I was not gonna be able to pay rent the next month, you know, a couple, like a year, a year and a half ago.

And day before it was August, September, I couldn't pay rent. And my mom's birthday's the 31st. And I call her to wish her happy birthday and we're chatting and they knew I was, we were struggling financially, but I didn't specifically say we couldn't pay rent. 'cause I was just, I dunno, too embarrassed or something.

But she looked over, my dad we're FaceTiming. She said, Hey, can we tell him? I'm like, tell you what? She says, uh, we wanna give you guys some money. And I'm like, what? What's that's like the day before red due what the heck? And so my dad said to me, Matthew, I was hesitant when you first told me about this whole coaching thing.

I was like, what? What is my son doing as he just got married and had a kid? And he said, but I, I believe in what you're doing and we really want you to succeed. So that's why we're doing this. And [00:13:00] so I, I say that because it's really easy to think that, suffering is not necessary. It's really easy to think that the Christian life is about, you know, Jesus will take away my suffering and all that kind of stuff.

And sometimes he does. To some extent he does. But just looking back, I am I genuinely grateful for that month of just incredible stress. My vision was affected because of the stress that I was under. And the reason is because after coming out of that, and even now as my business is continuing to grow, I, I've experienced.

Basically, you know, going in the valley of the shadow of death, so to speak, surviving and coming out on top. And the what the Lord does in that and what he has been doing in me is showing me that he wants to continue to initiate me into the Christian life. And as a man, he wants to father me in that way.

And so on a external level, you know, I started my [00:14:00] business because I felt the Lord calling me to. And I could see it becoming a place of financial success for my family and all that kind of stuff. But for me personally, what the Lord has been doing has just continued to strip away my own insecurities, my own doubts about myself, and yeah, taking away all the places where I held up security as an idol where I was like, all right, we're gonna stay safe.

We're not gonna do the, the scary thing. 'cause that's scary. And yeah, it's just. I'm just very, I feel very blessed because the Lord has just continued to delight in me and say, Hey, keep going. You got this. Go for it. And yeah, we can't have that if we don't have hardship. We can't have that genuine renewal where we actually use the gifts that God has given us unless there's something preventing us and getting in the way of us doing that.

So that's kind of the the the overview, but. Awesome. But yeah.

Scott Maderer: Let's, uh, I, I want [00:15:00] to dive in. 'cause you talked early on about the, you know, you were originally thinking counseling and then you wanted to become a, a coach.

Matthew Jandernoa: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: And I get this question sometimes and I know my answer, but I wanna hear your answer what, what do you see as the difference between kind of the counseling approach and the coaching approach?

And like you said, not that one's better than the other. Mm-hmm. But they are different. Mm-hmm. So what do you see as the differences between those?

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. So the one caveat I wanna say is it in some sense isn't different because it only depends on the counselor that you're working with or the coach you're working with.

'cause everyone's approach is different. Some people's coaching looks like counseling, some people's counselor looks like coaching, all that kind of stuff. However, broad strokes here counseling from, at least from my understanding, it tends to look more so at the past and then from the past moving forward.

And so there's generally an emphasis on inner healing. On, you know, trying to find the underlying cause from your past. [00:16:00] A lot of, you know, that psychoanalysis kind of stuff. Or if you do the total opposite, it's incredibly cognitive behavioral where you're looking for a specific result and you know, you're trying to do certain things to kinda get that result.

Coaching, at least for me, is a lot more of kind of accompaniment of, I'm not here necessarily to. Help you. I'm not here necessarily to fix your problems, nor am I necessarily here to, to totally dive deep and unearth the trauma that you've experienced or whatever. Um, stuff like that does happen.

But the majority of what I do is I, I walk with people and I focus on the present, and I ask them, what do you want your life to look like? And then what's getting in the way of that? And so in some sense it's more goal oriented, but at the same time, it's very. Personal. And I try to make it more like a, a relationship, like a friendship of, hey, we're in this together, as opposed to this professional relationship [00:17:00] where, hey, we only talk in this, you know, this strict sense and all that kind of stuff.

And so there's, there's, I, I mentor, there's teaching stuff. I teach them about the virtues and other things you know, relationships and all that kind of stuff. But really it's, Hey, I'm, I'm here in the thick of it with you. Let's do this together.

Scott Maderer: And that past the way I put it is counseling tends to be focused on the past to help you in the present.

Mm-hmm. And coaching tends to be focused on the present to help you in the future.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. I think that's a great

Scott Maderer: way of putting it. It's not, that one's better than. Worse, it's just

Matthew Jandernoa: mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: You know, that's kind of

Matthew Jandernoa: mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: Uh, that's kind of broadly the difference. Yeah. You know, I actually think there's a lot of times where with a good counselor and a good coach, they dovetail very well, you know?

Yeah,

Matthew Jandernoa: absolutely.

Right. Yeah. Even with the clients that I have that go to counseling, they tend to bring some of the stuff that's coming up in their counseling to the coach. And then they tend to bring up some of the [00:18:00] stuff that's coming up in the coaching to the counseling. Yeah. And so you can kind of have that, there's a feedback

Scott Maderer: loop

Matthew Jandernoa: between Yeah, exactly.

Scott Maderer: Um, so when you think about your clients, you know, kind of paint a picture of who is it that generally. You know, that you want to work with or that it is coming to you to work with you, kind of. Mm-hmm. Talk, talk a little bit about who, who is your ideal client or you know, the person that, that you most like your wife said the person that when you're talking to him, you come alive.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So as far as my business goes you know, I have another coach I'm bringing another one as well. So the vision is that we can really help. The majority of people do become more fully human. And so, you know, I can explain that in a second, but for me personally usually not all the time, usually I work with people kind of young adult age people who are in a place where [00:19:00] they feel stuck.

They don't know what to do next. Um, they don't have a vision for life. I work with people who are struggling in their relationship or at the very least, you know, maybe there's just this apathy, so to speak, of. Hey, it's not bad, but I feel like there should be more in this. There should be more, in a sense, I'm getting outta this.

So it's really people who generally speaking, they're not totally destroyed by their past. I'm, I'm not saying you totally healed but generally speaking it's people who just kind of want more for their life and want to really step into the vision for what they have in their life or to discover their vision.

I work with a lot of guys who struggle with pornography and masturbation. And yeah, so that, I mean, yeah, that's obviously, you know, not the greatest of things and really preventing from living life to the full. Yeah. And then also people who just want more [00:20:00] consistency in their life, but wanna do it in a way where there's integration between the head and the heart.

Mm-hmm. Um, because I have another, a number of clients who will say, yeah, I can perform well, I can do all this stuff, but. What's the point? And I don't feel like this is, you know, is my life really amounting to anything? And so there's that bringing that integration between the head and the heart. So as far as like people I'm looking for, generally speaking, it's like if you not only want to grow, but you also want to learn and really discover who you are and whose God made you to be.

Those are really the people that I enjoy working with. Because we just have really fun conversations, really interesting conversations, and we walk away with some really cool action steps at the end of every session. Um, yeah, and, and especially when they work on it at home, when they actually do the action steps, then we really see the progress.

But a lot of people also struggle to remember the action steps. So we also try to work on that with some [00:21:00] better accountability and, and whatnot, but,

Scott Maderer: mm-hmm.

Matthew Jandernoa: But yeah.

Scott Maderer: So what, uh, what do you see as, you know, you, you just talked a lot about and you kind of even laughed right there at the end. The, the, they struggle with following through with the action steps and, and or remembering them and all of that.

What do you see as some of the things that we do that kind of get in our own way? Mm-hmm. When it comes to. Making progress, you know, towards finding our calling, living it out, doing what we're designed to be living that full life.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. Yeah. I think the biggest hindrance particularly when it comes to remembering and following through, is that it's really easy when you hear something either new or something you've already heard that you really like, it's really to then just say, oh, I like it.

It's in my brain. I vibe with it. It resonates with me. It'll just happen. [00:22:00] Or there's this lack of acknowledgement of, Hey, I'm not doing this. That means that there's a pattern in my life that's, that's flawed and I need to be proactive about pursuing it. And so when we try to stay too present, which is ironic 'cause a lot of people wanna be more present, um, as part of the reason why people come to me is I just can't, you know, be present.

I can't live my life the way that I want to. It's like this feedback loop of the more present you try, the more present you think you need to be. Or the more, the more you make being present and idle and like the thing you're trying to pursue you, the less present you're gonna be because you're not gonna recognize the patterns that need to change.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

Matthew Jandernoa: And so what happens is they take the action steps, they love them, they're like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. They do it for a couple of days and then something happens in their schedule that just throws 'em off. Then they totally forget. They get a super loss in the weed. In the weeds [00:23:00] and totally forget that they had a thing that they were trying to do.

And so kind of the biggest thing is, do you actually have a vision for your life? And what are the steps you need to make to make that happen or even make it likely for it to happen? And so we can't, and this is part of the reason why a lot of people who think they need coun counseling, need coaching is because a lot of people can go to counseling.

Thinking, okay, I'm gonna go to counseling and this is what's gonna, you know, help me. But really what you need to be most people is you need to figure out, Hey, what's one thing that I could do that could improve my life? Just pick one thing.

And then you make it your mission to do that for like two weeks and then see what happens.

And so with coaching you, it's more about that kind of stuff. But you have to actually say, no, this is mine. I'm taking initiative, I'm gonna make this happen.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, uh [00:24:00] it's, I talk about goals as the destination or the map. You know, I have a, mm-hmm. I have a goal to do something.

I have, they have a beginning, they have a middle, they have an end. But what a lot of us forget is, it's kinda like having a map to the destination. And you pop in your car, but you forgot to put gas in the car. Well, you're not gonna get very far, you know? Right. And what you're talking about with the purpose to it and the ownership of it, that's the fuel.

Mm-hmm. You know, but a lot of times we just, we forget to fuel up the car and then we're like, why did we get to the destination? Well,

Matthew Jandernoa: yeah. Yeah. And so sometimes they don't like doing it. And it's funny, it's, it's our own pride that gets in the way. Yeah. But a lot of 'em, I'll say, Hey, just literally get a post-it note.

Write it down and just put it somewhere. And when you look at it, don't just acknowledge it. Say repeat it to yourself a couple of times and say, that's what I want. That's what I'm pursuing.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

Matthew Jandernoa: Um, because, and, and that's the whole point is [00:25:00] memory. Memory is something that you can grow in. You can get better at remembering things, but you do that by doing something about it.

You don't just remember things because you then remember it. You have to establish cues. You have to basically do something. That kind of tells your brain, Hey, we're trying to remember this, but when we don't do anything about it, it falls by the wayside. And then we really easily fall into despair and hopelessness.

'cause we're just like, I'm never gonna change. Why can't I change?

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

Matthew Jandernoa: It's like, well, have you tried changing? You know? No,

Scott Maderer: I just keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting it to be different. Come on.

Matthew Jandernoa: Right. But how, how often do we do that though? I mean, the number of times I go to my workday and I think about all the things I need to do.

And then it takes a day or two sometimes if I'm out of the habit of saying, wait a minute, what are you doing? Where's your notebook? Why aren't you writing down a checklist?

Scott Maderer: Right.

Matthew Jandernoa: What's going on? Right. And I,

Scott Maderer: why I am, I scheduled some time on my calendar to do it.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. Or

Scott Maderer: I haven't

Matthew Jandernoa: idea. Exactly. You know?

And, and, and [00:26:00] honestly, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen exactly the way that you plan it to happen. It rarely does unless you just have tons of willpower and, you know, no children or whatever. But, but yeah, it's just, are you living your life with intention and to live your life with intention means?

Do you have a vision and are you trying to actually do something about it? Because I don't like being con, I don't like being told what to do, even when it's, I'm telling myself to do something. And so I know some people will say, you know, block out your calendar and put everything in its spot.

And I think there's benefic, there's benefits to that, but the way that I approach it is more so what are the things that I'd like to do today? Okay, let's just make a checklist and then just start with whatever you wanna start with and just keep going, right? Don't start with the hardest thing first.

Like, I know that could be tempting to, alright, we're gonna get past the really hard thing. But the problem with that is you totally kill your motivation. You get rid of all your creativity and you don't start the day with success. And if you don't [00:27:00] start the day with success, you're, it's really hard to believe that you're gonna one, be successful.

Two, to stay motivated in pursuing things when it gets hard. I like to start out with, Hey, what's something that I can knock out in like two minutes? And then that kind of builds my confidence, builds my momentum, and then after I do that for a little bit, then I start tackling the harder stuff because I've already come to the place where I know that I can succeed.

And I have that the mindset of I know there's a solution because I've already found several.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. I think one of the things too you know, 'cause I work with a lot of folks on, on time management or productivity. Mm-hmm. Really, I call it energy management and productivity, not, not time management, because I don't think we manage time.

I think we manage ourselves.

Matthew Jandernoa: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: But and the, there are. A lot of different ways to do it. And the real key is finding the way that works with your brain. Mm-hmm. Because we're not all wired the same way. Yeah. We're [00:28:00] not all designed the same way. We don't all respond to the same rewards. We don't all respond it.

And what the problem is that almost all of the productivity stuff that's out there is written for one type of brain. Yeah. You know, and so you get all this advice and it works great if you're wired that way. Mm-hmm. You know, but for all of us that aren't, it's like mm-hmm. Oh. This is terrible advice. It doesn't help you.

Mm-hmm. So like some of what, because you'll for instance, eat the Frog, which is the mm-hmm. Idea of do the hardest thing first. Yeah. And you just talked about, for you, that does not work, you know? No, there's probably somewhere out there that it does work. Mm-hmm. But for you, that doesn't work. And so, mm-hmm.

I think it is important to recognize, and again, this is the value of working with a coach

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: Is you have a bigger toolbox, you have more exposure to things, so you can go. Okay. That's not working for you. Let's try this. Mm-hmm. You know?

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. Well, and the, and the people that tend to come to me that I yeah, that really benefit a lot.

I mean, I can't even say that, but anyways, there's [00:29:00] a certain group of people that come to me and they're just like. I am a rebel.

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

Matthew Jandernoa: I don't like doing what I tell myself to do or what anyone else tells me to do, but I know that I have to do certain things. If I wanna live and provide for my family, how do I do this?

Yeah. You know, and I think in those cases that's exactly the point of, of instead of focusing on what needs to get done, that's where that envisioning and identity statements are really powerful of, it's not about getting in shape, it's about being the kind of person that likes working out.

And then living that way, um, I remember when I was, I don't remember middle school, I think our youth group had like a Halloween part of me all dressed up as a different saint. And I, I chose, uh, St. Dominic Savio who died when he was just shy of 15. And when I did that, I said, all right, I'm gonna really act like him.

And what was crazy was that by the end of the evening I was like, wow, I feel really good. Like, I kind of like that. And then I was like, huh, [00:30:00] that's interesting. When I take on a certain identity and then try to act that way, and in some sense, I then become that identity, and there's research to back it up.

I mean, I, when I wrote my undergrad thesis in psychology, um, there was one article in particular that was really interesting. It was, the hypothesis was that everyone tries to do the good thing, but what they found was that those who believe themselves to be good are motivated to do what they perceive to be good.

And those who believe themselves to be bad are motivated to do what they perceive to be bad. And then whenever you act contrary to that, you have a strong negative emotion that tries to get you to go back to where you were.

So this is part of why, again, like I said, and in order to really live life to the full, you have to have hardship.

You have to have those negative responses because you have to shed the old person very literally.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. The question that people ask [00:31:00] is it belief that creates action or action? That creates belief? And my statement is, you're asking the wrong question because it's a loop. Yeah. It's a circle.

Mm-hmm. You know? Yep. If you start to act a certain way, then you begin to believe it, which then causes mm-hmm. You to act, which causes you to. By the same token, if you believe a certain way, you begin to act and you know Right. Either way it's a loop. Mm-hmm. There is no beginning, there is no end. It's yes.

Matthew Jandernoa: Right. Yeah. Exactly. And that's why like the try it out mentality is so important.

Scott Maderer: Right.

Matthew Jandernoa: Because, because you start

Scott Maderer: acting

Matthew Jandernoa: Exactly. And, and that's the problem. You get caught in that feedback loop and then you'd never do anything.

Scott Maderer: Mm-hmm.

Matthew Jandernoa: And that's the problem is, and I was even talking to somebody the other day and he was basically saying, you know, I'm scared that I'm gonna get, gonna get to 60.

And look back and say, what did I do with my life?

And then I, you know, but then I asked him are you able to do the things that you wanna do? And he's like, yeah, I can do things I wanna do, you know, gave you some examples. And I said, but what about the things you really want to do? Like, what do you envision for your life five, 10 years from [00:32:00] now?

And he said, huh, I don't know. And I said, so what I'm hearing is that you can do the things you want right now so you, you can be present. Then you can think however many, 40, 50 years from the future. And think about your life then. But then what about everything in between?

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

Matthew Jandernoa: And he was like, yeah, but I don't want to do, I don't it's hard for him to commit himself to something.

Be because he's not sure if that's gonna be the thing that will satisfy or if he's gonna settle. And I said I said this and we're working through it, but I was basically just in my mind, I was like. You're genuinely never gonna know. And that's why you have to say is this is, this is the thing that I'm trying to do, worth the risk of doing it poorly.

And if it is, then go for it. 'cause you're never, you're either gonna not do it or you're gonna do it poorly. And so if it's worth the risk of doing it poorly, then I'm pretty [00:33:00] confident doing poorly is better than not doing it at all.

Or not, you know what I mean? Never even going for it. And that's where those identity statements come in is like, what kind of, what are principles do you want your life to be based on?

Scott Maderer: Yeah.

Matthew Jandernoa: And then, and then start doing that.

Scott Maderer: What are your values? What are your, your principles? Yeah. What are your, you know, what kind of person are you?

Um are you the kind of person that's brave enough to do it even whenever you don't know or not? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I always think it's funny too.

It's like, well, I don't know if I'm gonna like that. It's like, well, yeah. 'cause you haven't done it yet.

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah.

Scott Maderer: You know

Matthew Jandernoa: exactly

Scott Maderer: the, the only way to know is go try, you know?

Matthew Jandernoa: Right. The analogy I use a lot is how do you know if, let's say an apple looks good on the outside, how do you know if it's a good or bad apple?

And they, they'll let, say, take a bite out of it. And I say, yeah, and if it's good, do you take another bite or do you just stop? I'll probably take another bite. And I said, [00:34:00] exactly. Like basically 90% of life is, I don't know if that's a good apple, let's take a bite and find it out.

Scott Maderer: Yeah. Yeah. And again, there's, you know, you can learn from other people and you can get guidance and you can, you know, there's all sorts of things you can do to help narrow the field.

Matthew Jandernoa: Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: But there comes a point where you just gotta. Bite the apple a bite. To use your analogy, you

Matthew Jandernoa: just gotta go for it.

Scott Maderer: ILI I'm gonna, I'm gonna steal that analogy, by the way. Mm-hmm. I like that metaphor. So, I know as well you work with men on kind of family culture and mm-hmm. You know, leading their family.

You know, you talked earlier about being a provider. You know, these drives that a lot of guys that's very integral to our identity. Yeah, exactly what we're talking about. What do you see as some of the biggest challenges there for men?

Matthew Jandernoa: Uh, to go back to that principle thing, I think that when we think about being a principled man, we quickly turn [00:35:00] to what kind of behavior does that kind of does a man do?

And we can really kind of hyper fix it on our external performance and our behavior. And really what this turns to is this this idea. So I don't know how familiar with the cardinal virtues, but, um, there's temperance, fortitude, prudence, and Justice, and the modern man, and you know, the, particularly the Christian man, we've used Temperance as merely restriction self-discipline.

How can I say no to myself? How can I say no to the bad desires? Basically. But if you look back into the etymology of the word, um, and St. Thomas Aquinas talks a lot about this, you can actually realize that temperance is a lot more about internal harmony and less about mere restriction and saying no to the bad desire.[00:36:00]

It's actually about how do I get myself to desire the things that desire is going to be satisfied with. So for example, if you just think about food I'm hungry. That's a good thing. That hunger is, you know, meant to be aimed at really good food, you know, like a steak or something, right?

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Jandernoa: Um, but if you have the habit of eating candy, then you're not gonna want the steak, and so what we people will think about is, okay, no, it's not good for me to eat the candy. I just gotta, I just gotta work harder. I just gotta force myself to eat the steak or whatever it is, right?

But

Matthew Jandernoa: the problem with that is that it's coming from the premise that your desire is not good.

And so when you view your desire as bad, then that means you're never gonna operate out of a place of desire. You're only ever gonna be operating out of a place of willpower, which will always lead to burnout.

And so when it's about being a principled man, it's about what are the principles that I want to base my decisions [00:37:00] on?

Not what kind of behavior is the thing that I, you know, think I ought to be doing or something. And so that's one of the hardest things, and especially when, when you're a husband and father, you have all the responsibilities of caring for a family, and it's really easy to just look at the performance and the numbers and everything.

But if you actually wanna be the kind of man that's best for your family, it's about going back to what am, what do I wanna be motivated by, and how can I bring that to fulfillment and bring that dissatisfaction? And so. It's really about and sometimes doing the inner healing, but also looking inward and saying, who is the man that I want to be, and then what does that look like?

Not what does it look like, and then leaving the rest and forgetting about it. Mm-hmm.

Scott Maderer: So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there and ask you those, is [00:38:00] there anything else about the work you do or the journey you've been on that you'd like to share with the listener?

Matthew Jandernoa: Well, one thing something that I do, I also work with married couples and engaged couples and, you know, I do an engagement mentorship program with my wife and it's about six months and it's.

Really aimed at helping me to be a flourishing individual, working on the marriage relationship, and then also focusing on parenting. And I've taught this for a while, but I really do think that the family, I mean the family is the building block of society. And I really do think that if we're gonna try to decide on where's the best place to start when it comes to.

Fixing the world's problems or something. I really do think it's the family, and I think that if we can really do family well and do marriage well, that we're gonna see a lot of generational change. [00:39:00] We're gonna see a lot of revival in the church. And yeah, genuinely, I think, like my wife and I, our very first conversation was about how we both wanted to bring revival to marriage and family.

Hmm. And so. That's kind of why I, I really enjoy working with people and especially men, because I, you know, in order to have a healthy marriage, I have to have two healthy people. And so, but yeah, just, yeah, just the importance of marriage and family and to the people who are nervous about marriage scared to have kids 'cause you're gonna lose your autonomy and all that kind of stuff.

I, I would challenge you and encourage you to really look inward and say, what am I actually afraid of? Is it worth the risk of, of do, of risking it all for what I believe in because there's not genuinely like having kids. It's not, it's just, you know, my daughter's not even two and she'll run up to me and say, dad, I love you.

And I don't know, like [00:40:00] that, just, it's incredibly validating and I, I hear the father's voice initiating me and loving me and delighting me in that too, so yeah.

Scott Maderer: So my brand is in inspire inspired stewardship, and I kind of run things through that lens of stewardship, and yet I've discovered over the years that's one of those words that can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

So for you, when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you?

Matthew Jandernoa: Uh, I, I actually think it's about it's about love and it's about passion. And the reason I say that. It's because, uh, even just if you look at the Old Testament in the book of Genesis God gives to Adam the responsibility of stewardship.

I want you to take care of the garden, take care of the animals and all that kind of stuff. And the way that I see it is if I have a posture of receptivity, I am genuine. I'm much more easily able to see reality as it is. [00:41:00] So, for example, and then I'm able to give of myself to it. So for example, if I give you a plant, how do I, how do you receive the plant fully?

You receive it fully by tending to its needs.

And so when it comes to stewardship and tending to your responsibilities, it's first about having that disposition of receptivity and openness and seeing what it is. That has, and then seeing the value in it, and particularly for relationships, it's about first seeing their value and then that value motivating you to give of yourself because you want more of their goodness.

It's not about making it good or making them good. It's about, I want more of their goodness. How can I pull this out of them? So for a plan, it's how can I pull to some extent. The fullness of what this plant is meant to be by attending to it, by loving it by fully receiving it and stewarding it.

Scott Maderer: Awesome. So this is my favorite question that I like to [00:42:00] ask everybody. Imagine for a moment that I invented this magic machine. Mm-hmm. And with this machine, I was able to take you from where you are today. Transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years, and through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life.

See all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left. What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

Matthew Jandernoa: I think that

I. Want to be an example to others of, you know, St. Paul, I think Philippians or something, one of those letters to run the race and to finish well, and I think that a lot of people can get really lost in the weeds and [00:43:00] start counting the cost. And I want. To impact and leave, you could say the legacy or whatever, of being willing to take the risk, jumping for it, and to run the race well, to live life well.

And to inspire others to do the same no matter the cost.

Scott Maderer: Uh, I'm pretty sure it's sympathy. Second. Timothy.

Matthew Jandernoa: Timothy. Timothy, I think I know you're you're correct, you're correct. Thank you.

Scott Maderer: Uh,

Matthew Jandernoa: I knew it was one of his letters.

Scott Maderer: Yeah, I was gonna say there, there's so many epistles. They do all kind of blend together.

But I, I, I, I like, I for two reasons. One, I really like the book of Timothy and two, because I identify a lot with them, uh, Timothy and Luke. And then secondly, it's because that's actually one of my. One of my passages that I use as an anchor passage for prayer. So, sure. I happen to know that one.

So what's coming next? What's on your [00:44:00] roadmap as you continue on your journey?

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah continuing to build my business, just, I really want the church to become more fully human again. I think that the way that we evangelize not only non-Christians, but also our own families and ourselves. Is by embracing the fullness of what it is to be human.

Because only humans can become saints. And so I hope he dog, I don't think dog's outta heaven. Um, but if they do, at the very least it's not in the same way that we do. Yeah, just doing more for, that's why I'm stepping more into the engagement, mentorship and the marriage coaching and all that kind of stuff.

Bringing more coaches on, 'cause I really want it to be a cultural thing of. You see a Christian and you're like, wow, they're like living a good life and they love life. That is what I want. And so just continuing to grow the business in that way. [00:45:00] Continue building a family, uh, you know, at Duke gives one on the way.

Yeah I think that that's kind of what's on my radar next. I have a theoretical idea of writing a book someday. I like the idea of it. Um, you just gotta do it. Um, I dunno if it's on my radar right now, but but yeah,

Scott Maderer: and you can find out more about Matthew over@steadfastlife.net. Of course. I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well.

Matt, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

Matthew Jandernoa: Yeah. Uh, if you are in a place in life where you're struggling or you feel like there's an emptiness or your relationships aren't jiving yeah. If there's just some place in you that's like, this is not what the human life, the full human life is meant to look like, I'd love to chat with you or one of my coaches.

If you're engaged, would love to help you get prepared for marriage. [00:46:00] Yeah, it's super easy. There's, you know, free call buttons on my website. You can email me on my web from my website, a lot of ways to contact me, but genuinely would love to chat and there's no real risk in having a free call. So I'd love to talk to you.

Scott Maderer: Absolutely.

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