Episode 1515: Interview with Katie Jones About Redeeming Your Finances

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1515 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:07] Katie Jones: I'm Katie Jones. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to be truly gospel centered with your money is key, and one way is To be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer.

[00:00:45] To recognize that your money problems that you might be facing are not going to be solved with a better budget, more money. They're not going to be solved [00:01:00] with just a new plan even or paying off your debt.

[00:01:05] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling.

[00:01:20] In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself. Invest in others and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:38] In this podcast episode, I interview Katie Jones. I asked Katie to share with you the reason she now focuses on not just wealth, but faith. I also asked Katie to share some of the misconceptions that she sees in the Christian view of money. And Katie also shares with you how we balance financial and spiritual fulfillment.

[00:01:58] I have a great book that's been out for a [00:02:00] while now called Inspired Living. Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about that book over at inspiredlivingbook. com. It'll take you to a page where there's information and you can sign up to get some mailings about it as well as purchase a copy there.

[00:02:21] I'd love to see you. Get a copy and share with me how it impacted your world. Katie Jones embodies a passion for empowering individuals to manage their money in alignment with their faith. As a youth pastor's wife, mom, foster mom, and a graduate of Colorado Christian University, An avid traveler, a real estate investor, and a certified Christian financial counselor, Katie's diverse experiences have shaped her understanding of the intersection between faith and finances.

[00:02:51] She is the visionary behind Redeeming Your Finances, an online school for believers to learn how to manage their money using skills that are rooted in the gospel. [00:03:00] Welcome to the show, Katie!

[00:03:02] Katie Jones: Hey, Scott. Thanks so much for having me today.

[00:03:05] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. I'm glad you're here. So I talked a little bit in the intro about some of the work you do and some of your background and that sort of thing.

[00:03:14] But, you know, intros and bios and those things don't really ever show the whole story and they definitely don't show the journey. They just kind of show where we're at. Would you talk a little bit about your journey and what brought you to the point where you're You're doing what you do now. You're, you're putting these things out about money and, and the, how it relates to the gospel.

[00:03:36] What brought you to here?

[00:03:38] Katie Jones: Yeah. Great place to start. So. I, I like to think that my kind of financial journey really began as I was graduating college. I was working for a property management firm at the time. I was a leasing agent, which is someone who basically helps other [00:04:00] rental property owners rent out their properties.

[00:04:02] You know, I was the one doing the showings and everything and putting together the rental agreements and I really enjoyed that. But I started to see how using real estate could be a really interesting tool to building wealth and achieving a lot of the financial goals that I had been starting to put together in my mind, right?

[00:04:24] I'm, I'm new out of college, and, and I didn't really know where I was going in life yet, and I had kind of determined, like, I am going to be a real estate investor. And so I got on this journey of wanting to get into real estate investing, which led me to the concept of financial independence. And, and if those listening don't know what financial independence is, it's this idea and the concept of having enough money coming in passively.

[00:04:52] or having enough money set aside so that you don't need to necessarily work anymore for your money, right? [00:05:00] We're, we're independent from needing that financial, like, cycle of working all the time. And I really wanted to accomplish this, and I honestly believe that this is what God wanted for Me and for every other Christian out there.

[00:05:16] And so, I got on this hamster wheel of trying to do everything I could to achieve financial independence. Along the way, I was achieving some really great goals. Goals that I do believe that came from God, like paying off my debt. My husband and I then bought a rental property. And we were saving up a lot of money.

[00:05:33] And these are wonderful, beautiful things. Principles that actually come directly from the Bible, you know. Saving and budgeting and paying off debt. But what I failed to recognize was that as I was pursuing financial independence. I was also trying to become independent from God, right? I started to take these goals he had given me, and then I pushed him to the side as I was like, Okay, God, I've [00:06:00] got this.

[00:06:00] And I just ran straight ahead to achieve all these goals as quickly as possible with this really intense focus of, of hitting all of them as quickly as possible. And so, I really kind of I, I struggled with that in the early years, but at the same time, I was starting to kind of teach other people about finances I had learned a lot, and I love reading listening to podcasts in general, and just educating myself as much as possible, and I love sharing that with other people, so I started blogging in 2018, and then I started blogging in 2018, and I love sharing that with other people, so I started blogging in 2018, and I love sharing that with other people, so I started Just kind of coaching really like I had no idea what I was doing But I had people who wanted me to help them with it.

[00:06:43] So I started coaching in 2020 and Fast forward I learned Through some of the books that I was reading that I was really starting to worship my money more than I was worshiping God through this [00:07:00] process of trying to become excellent at managing my money, but The issue I was having was the purpose behind it versus inviting God into the conversation and asking him step by step if I'm still on the right track.

[00:07:15] I just kind of heard his call to achieve these goals and then I said, Okay, God, I'll do whatever I can to accomplish this really fast. And I tuned everything out, including God. And Yeah, I, I learned the hard way after kind of accomplishing some of these goals that I felt very spiritually drained, I felt very burnt out, and I really just felt like God was very distant at that time which was kind of the truth, I, I had pushed him away without really recognizing it.

[00:07:50] Now, now that I have kind of gone through this, Refining process and recognizing this I've been [00:08:00] healing from it, right? I've been inviting God back into the conversations And so that's kind of what I do now as a certified Christian financial counselor is I help people bring God into these conversations about their finances so that way we can align our faith primarily with these financial goals that we have and just asking God step by step like what what would you have me do right now?

[00:08:24] Where do you want me to go? Am I still on the right track? Is paying off debt as intensely as possible right now the right thing? And that might not be the answer. The answer might not be yes every single month. It could shift. And so That's kind of the, the long version of like how I've got here. It was my own journey of struggling to really balance my faith with my finances, even though I believe that that was what I was doing at the time.

[00:08:50] And so it's, it's kind of, it's hard because you, we have a hard time recognizing that when we have these blinders on, and that's what happened to me [00:09:00] was that I was blinded to what the spirit was trying to teach me in the middle of all of it. But here we are now, and I'm helping other Christians to not be so blinded like I was.

[00:09:12] Scott Maderer: Well, and I think, you know, as Christians, you know, money is a topic that I think a lot of Christians struggle with. I mean, I, I remind people that there's arguably more passages in the Bible about money and our relationship with money than there is about love, you know? And, and I don't think that's because money is more important.

[00:09:31] I think it's because God knew that we were going to struggle with money, you know? And so, and so it's kind of more like, let me give you more ammo if you'll pay attention here. You know, I, I don't know that it's it's not because of its importance, but it's because of. You know, we, we struggle with it when you think about how it's affected your faith and you know, you mentioned growing away from God and then kind of growing back and inviting God back into the relationship.

[00:09:58] How do you think that the work [00:10:00] you've done and what you've done personally, you know, both now as a coach, as a counselor, when you were a blogger, you know, the, the, the work stuff, how did that affect your faith and how did your faith affect that? Yeah.

[00:10:15] Katie Jones: I, again, I really struggled because I've, I've always grown up a Christian and I've, I've always had a very strong faith from, from my own perspective, right?

[00:10:27] I've always felt like God and I were a team. And what I think that I struggled with the most was, again, like I, I had heard from God. I heard pretty clearly, like, okay, my debt that I had, I had around 40, 000 in student loan debt when I graduated. And I knew that he wanted me to be free of it. And I heard that very clearly from him.

[00:10:53] Now, the way that my faith impacted this journey was that I, I [00:11:00] did. I wanted to glorify God as, as best as I could. Like, that was what I deeply desired to do. And so I thought that pursuing this goal was going to be the way to do that. And I sought the Bible, like I read the Bible, to find my own truths.

[00:11:19] And, and so I kind of kept looking at it through this lens of achieving these goals. I'm an Enneagram 3, which for those who don't know, it just means that you like to check off the boxes. You like to achieve things, and that was so me, and it still tends to be me. And, and so I I believed that I would be most honoring to God by checking off these boxes, by setting up the budget, by setting up a debt payoff plan, by setting up my retirement plan, you know, all these things.

[00:11:54] And I thought that that was how I could honor God the most. And [00:12:00] again, as I mentioned, I, I pushed God out of the just day to day decisions with all of it. I just kind of set my blinders and, and went for it. And I really made everything about myself versus God. And so, I didn't recognize, like, I don't think we, we go into these situations.

[00:12:21] Knowing that that's what we're doing like no, I would have if someone had said like this is what you are doing I don't think I would have believed them and I would have been like no you're wrong Like that's not like here. I am I'm trying to glorify God, but I'm really thankful that through the process I did stay close to God, like that's what I, that's what I thought I was doing, you know, I was still going to Bible study in church, and I was still trying to hear from God, but I had blocked him out in this specific area, and, and so my faith eventually kind of came back to a place where it's like, The Lord just did what only he could do, you know, the Holy Spirit worked and [00:13:00] opened my heart and my eyes and my ears to hear the truth.

[00:13:03] And it was through, again, like some books that I read Paul Tripp's book, Redeeming Money was instrumental in this process for me. The book Getting Over Yourself by Dean. I always get his last name wrong. Incera, I think it is. That one was like a wake up call too, because it was. It was, it was all about like, you got to get over, like, this whole, like, you version gospel, you know?

[00:13:26] It's like, it's not all about you and your goals. And so, yeah, it's, it's really impacted me. And I've At this point, I have learned a lot more about contentment and being okay with where I'm at, and not necessarily needing to always achieve the next financial goal, because that's what I, I, and I still struggle with that today, like getting caught up in like the next thing that I need to achieve through our budget and everything and I really need to check myself when that.

[00:13:56] When I'm setting, especially as we're recording this, it's the [00:14:00] new year, right? And, and everybody kind of comes up with these new goals. And a lot of times I set financial goals, but I have to recognize that these things that even though I believe they come from God, they're good. They're good goals that we're setting.

[00:14:14] They're not more important than my relationship. With him. And so it's really, it's been a fascinating journey just to go through, especially, you know, I was coaching. I've been coaching this whole time. And so the way that I've been talking about it with my coaching clients and different students and things, and the way that I talk about it on YouTube and my Facebook group and stuff, it, it just, it evolves.

[00:14:38] And, and I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Because that's like, I'm just teaching what God has been putting on my heart at that time. And hopefully it's helping and leading others to grow closer to Christ in the way that they manage their money.

[00:14:54] Scott Maderer: Yeah. One of the things that I talk about and, and it's challenging sometimes with clients, [00:15:00] whenever you, you bring it up is because we tend to focus a lot on, like you said, the goal.

[00:15:05] you know, the, okay, this is my goal. And, and I tell people, you know, for me, the definition, what makes something a goal, is it some, it's, it's an item that has a clear beginning, a middle and an end, meaning I want to do this. I am doing this. I have done this, or I want to do this. I am doing this and I have not done it.

[00:15:24] You know, you can tell there's stages of beginning a middle and an end versus. Your why or your intent, you know, you use the word intent earlier and those last beyond the goal. So, if, you know, if, if you're trying to get freedom, okay, well, there's lots of different ways you can get towards freedom, but now there's different goals.

[00:15:46] You can set to move that direction. And here's the cool thing. It never really ends, you know, because when you achieve those goals, it's like, okay, now, what goals do I need to set to keep moving, you know, that direction or even, huh? Now that I've achieved some of that, [00:16:00] my, my intent has changed. I need to go a different direction.

[00:16:02] You know, or my why is what I usually call it for, for people is, you know, but the why is that deeper passion, emotion, feeling, you know, and it sounds like you initially, when you started looking for financial appendants, I was hearing in your description, you know, words around security and safety and those sorts of things.

[00:16:22] But now it sounds like you kind of said, wait, no, those things come from my relationship with God. Money's not in that position anymore. It's not that you don't have a why around money, but it's not those sort of deeper pieces. Is that, am I hearing that right? Or am I missing the boat?

[00:16:40] Katie Jones: Oh, that you're, you're spot on.

[00:16:42] You, I mean. Absolutely, because that, that is what I was trying to do was, you know, again, achieving the goal of being debt free does offer some, some kind of security, right? You don't have debt, but to say that you won't be [00:17:00] secure until, or you won't be successful until, or you won't have an identity until you've achieved these things, we're missing the point.

[00:17:08] Like, God does want us to be free of debt and to save for our futures, but pursuing these things is never more important than pursuing him as that thing, as your security, as your hope, as your future, as your identity. And yes, you're right. I, that's what I was doing. It would, and it was detrimental to my faith, right?

[00:17:29] In those moments, because I lost my identity in the midst of it. Again, I would have never told you that because I didn't know it. I didn't recognize it in the midst of doing that. But now hindsight is 20 20, right? I, I see that that was what was happening now. And so I, one of my goals as like working with clients is to help them take those blinders off.

[00:17:52] Because the, Outward, you know, illness that we see with people and their [00:18:00] finances like, okay, I have a lot of debt. I have a lot of stress. I can't sleep at night. These are things that are manifesting from an inward illness. Like, what is really going on in the heart? Versus, you know, how is that playing out in your finances?

[00:18:13] Debt is usually a result of maybe envy, right? You, you want something else that somebody has. And so you're like, well, I'm going to take out a loan in order to get that really nice car that my neighbor has now. And that's not the case for everybody. There's different circumstances. But oftentimes, here in Western cultures, like, that's just what we do.

[00:18:34] We, we have this pride and this sense of like, I need to achieve and, and, Get the next biggest thing or better thing, or, you know, even just

[00:18:44] Scott Maderer: pride of, I deserve it. I'm, you know, that kind of feeling. And, and yeah, there's a lot of that too, of keeping up with the Joneses. There's a lot of internal pride.

[00:18:54] There's a lot of identity things where I'm only successful if. [00:19:00] Mm

[00:19:00] Katie Jones: hmm.

[00:19:01] Scott Maderer: Well, the problem with that is there's always a new F once you get

[00:19:06] Katie Jones: that thing, you know, that like phone phones, like a phone is such an easy example because they come out with a newer model every year that's supposedly, and

[00:19:16] Scott Maderer: they tell you it's the best things to slice bread

[00:19:19] Katie Jones: and it's like, oh my goodness.

[00:19:21] And so it can be really easy to get in that cycle of seeing your phone, then that you just got only like seven months ago and you're like. Well, now I need that other one that's now a hundred dollars more expensive. And, and it's, I mean, marketing is amazing, right? If, if you're in marketing, like, you just know how to speak to that part of people that really gets them to think like, Oh, yeah, you're right.

[00:19:44] I do need that. But we have to quiet. all of the noise around us in order to pay attention to the voice of the Holy Spirit in those moments to say, no, you don't, you don't need that right now. There are times and places for certain things like that. Absolutely. And it's [00:20:00] not to say that if you get a new phone model, you're, you're sinning or anything.

[00:20:04] But again, it comes back to that word we're using intention. Like what is the intention behind this? What is your heart? Really hiding after in the middle of all this and and just really tuning into God. So

[00:20:17] Scott Maderer: yeah, it's not not that the goals are bad. Not that being out of debt is bad Not that getting a phone is bad But it's also not that the goals are good not that the getting out of debt is good not that the new phone is good their value neutral what creates the value is The relationship and the intentionality and the intent behind it.

[00:20:37] That's, that's the cool part. A

[00:20:38] Katie Jones: great way to put it.

[00:20:40] Scott Maderer: And yet, and yet what would we all say? Oh, you know, that was, so let's talk a little bit about some of the myths that, that Christians have about, about money and, and faith. And, you know, we're kind of touching on some of that now, but and I've got a specific one that I'll bring up if you don't go into it.

[00:20:58] Just naturally, but [00:21:00] where do you start when you're talking to a Christian that's come to you for help? And, and, or what do you see as some of the kind of misconceptions or you know, misbeliefs they have when it comes to money?

[00:21:12] Katie Jones: Yeah, I will share one that might ruffle some feathers because it ruffled my feathers.

[00:21:20] I learned about it in that book that I mentioned, Getting Over Yourself. I was woken up to the fact that I had been falling for the prosperity gospel. Now, I want to clarify, then, what is the prosperity gospel, right? We hear this so many times, especially as, like, money coaches, or if you're a Christian just trying to do anything with your finances.

[00:21:49] We're all so aware of this kind of big, bad, ugly prosperity gospel. However, the way that we've usually seen The prosperity [00:22:00] gospel described is, you know, the really rich millionaire who has a fancy mansion, maybe a private jet and a really nice car and good clothes, right? We think of this as like the health and wealth, you just have tons of money and it's because God gave it all to you.

[00:22:17] You know, he's blessing you abundantly.

[00:22:20] Scott Maderer: And typically that's a tele, that's a tele evangelist that we're sorry. I'll say it since you weren't.

[00:22:28] Katie Jones: That's what we typically think of, right? It's like this, this like ideal person that has all this money, but. And so, so many of us, Scott and I, you, you and I probably right now would not say, like, that's what we're aiming for is to have these big mansions and all these things.

[00:22:45] Most Christians would never say that these are the things that they are pursuing because it's not. Like, that's not usually any of our goals. However, if we are, again, pursuing things just like our ultimate [00:23:00] comforts, having, you know, a, a really kind of. Secure life with, you know, a good car and, you know, a full fridge and if we just continue to pursue these things all for ourselves, we're really falling for a version of the prosperity gospel because we're kind of saying, you know, if we follow Christ, we're going to live a decent, you know, middle class life, like just comfortable, ample, permanent life.

[00:23:33] And this is the issue that I found, was that I was falling for this kind of, like, sneaky version of the prosperity gospel because I just believe that, like, yes, if I follow all of these principles within the Bible, this is going to happen. And so I started recognizing that I was using it, again, to find my own truths, but also to use it sort of like a formula.

[00:23:55] Like, the Bible was like, here is the Bible giving me this step by step process [00:24:00] in order to achieve my Comfortable, ideal life. And, and this is a, a huge misconception that so many of us are blinded to. I mean, we, we pursue a lot of these things. And, and we ask God why we aren't achieving or why we aren't getting these things that we deeply desire.

[00:24:23] When you know, the Bible tells us if, if we do follow God, He's going to give us the desires of our heart. And we, we put that into our Western culture context, right? It's like, well, I do desire a nice big house where each of my kids has their own bedroom and bathroom, and I do desire a nice car, and I do desire, you know, really good clothes.

[00:24:42] I want to be stylish. I want, you know, whatever it is. Like, these are, these are just classic examples, but it could be. As simple as like, I really want to send my kids to the best Christian private school because, you know, this is, this is exactly what God wants. And, you know, [00:25:00] it will look very different for each of us.

[00:25:02] And so we need to individually ask about our situations. What what are we trying to kind of like make this idol in our lives? And again, like you said every all these things are neutral like going to a Christian school is it is a good thing It's just a it's a it's a thing but when we kind of make it this ideal we are starting to treat God more like a vending machine than our Lord and Savior and We have to just be so careful about it.

[00:25:35] And so I think the misconception is that we don't always recognize that we're falling for the prosperity gospel. In, in many, like each of us, it's, it's an individual thing. So. It's, it's

[00:25:48] Scott Maderer: sort of the difference between, you know, I, I talked to people about prayer and, and one of the things I say is it's, it's the difference between saying, Hey God, I, I'm going over here, I'm doing this thing, [00:26:00] or I want this thing, please bless me with it and saying, Hey God, what do you want?

[00:26:05] From me, where do you want me to go? What do you want to put in my life? You know, what, what, what are you calling for me to do? As you know, again, it's sort of, who are you putting in the driver's seat? You know, are you saying it's my will that's in the driver's seat and God's supposed to answer me. And then when I say it out loud that way, usually most Christians are like, Ooh, no, wait, that doesn't sound right.

[00:26:27] I don't remember that.

[00:26:29] Katie Jones: I have a really good example in it and it isn't actually money related, but it's, it's Putting it in, like I wanted something and I wanted God to give it to me and I was mad at him for not and there's probably a lot of people who will, you know, resonate with this, but for three and a half years, my husband and I were trying to start our family and we were trying to have kids and we had been praying about it for so long.

[00:26:58] And it just wasn't happening. [00:27:00] And, yeah. In year like one and a half, like somewhere around the one and a half to two year mark that we had been trying, I started getting really angry because It was this ideal that I had made so important. In my life, and, and I did, I was praying about it, like, God, give me this child, give me the desire of my heart, like, I want to raise a child to know you, and to love you, and, and, like, why aren't you giving this to me?

[00:27:27] There were a few other things at the same time, like, I, we, I really wanted to move, and, But God just didn't open doors for us to move, and I just get, I kept getting so angry because I was, again, asking God to give me these things that I felt like would make me happy. And, it was really, really hard, and it was around that time that I kind of started doing a lot more spiritual Examining of it.

[00:27:53] And that's when the Holy Spirit had opened my eyes to the fact that yes, I was really starting to fall [00:28:00] for this concept of the prosperity gospel and just the sense of like, yeah, making my goals more important than what God would want me to grow and develop through that process. Once I finally laid that those things down at his feet, like being a mother Down at his feet, I realized both my husband and I were open to the idea of foster care.

[00:28:21] And so then we became foster parents and that's been such a beautiful journey. We've done, been doing that now for two years. And then in the middle of becoming foster parents, we did actually become pregnant with our first son. And, and it, and it, at that moment, I realized just how beautiful. That this gift of our son was because I had gone through this refining process of recognizing that having him was not going to make me happy or fulfilled or anything like that.

[00:28:53] Like, I realized that that can only come from Jesus. And so once I laid that desire down at the foot of the [00:29:00] cross, like, then God was like, okay, like, your heart is open and ready to receive this gift in the, in this appropriate way. And so. I'm really thankful for those three years. Like it's in the middle of it.

[00:29:14] I was so angry. I, you know, went through some moments of depression and a lot of anxiety and it was really, really dark at certain times. But now again, like I'm so thankful for it because we would have never become foster parents first off which has been such a blessing, but then just everything that God had taught me through it.

[00:29:36] I would have never learned that any other way. Like, I would have, like, kind of known it, right? Quote unquote. I would have known, like, God, you know, this is, this is the way we should be approaching our faith, but I would have never really understood it, like, the way that I do now without going through refining process.

[00:29:57] Scott Maderer: Yeah, one of the my wife and I went through some similar [00:30:00] things with, with trying to have children and it was after we finally kind of got to the point where like, well, you know, if we're supposed to have kids, we're going to have kids. If we're not supposed to have kids, we're not going to have kids.

[00:30:09] Oh, well, and it was like three months later we were pregnant. So it's like, oh, oh, okay. We just had to stop, you know, trying to make it such a. It has to happen kind of thing and give that up and then it happens. And I, I, I hear stories like that. And again, like you said, that's a quote, non money example, but, but we do the same thing with stuff and money and jobs and relationships.

[00:30:33] And, you know, we, we put that in all of the components of our life. So I'd like to hear your take on this one too. So one of the things that I do see Christians do. And struggle with is, and it's funny because it's, it's almost opposite things. And yet I hear both sometimes even from the same people. And one is, you know, if somebody has no money, they're either holy or not, you know, [00:31:00] and, or if someone has money, they're automatically either holy or not.

[00:31:04] So in other words, you know, rich people must have been blessed beyond belief or rich people are all evil. That's why they have money. Poor people must have, you know, Oh, look, they have so much faith and they're so holy. Oh, no, they're not spiritual and they're not, you know, it's kind of this weird dichotomy of four, four options.

[00:31:22] And yet sometimes I hear it from the same people. It's and, and usually definition is rich is more money than I have and poor is less money than I have to. So it's all relative to our own condition as well. So how, how have you seen folks struggle with that? And what, what's been your, your take on that for folks?

[00:31:40] Katie Jones: Absolutely. I, I have actually worked with clients who have been in, in all like four of those categories.

[00:31:48] Scott Maderer: Yeah, me too.

[00:31:50] Katie Jones: My, my, I'm pretty sure I've

[00:31:52] Scott Maderer: been in all four of those categories or one time or another.

[00:31:55] Katie Jones: Most definitely. You, you start to read something in the Bible and, and you see like, [00:32:00] well, Jesus told him to like get rid of all of his stuff.

[00:32:02] Does that mean I have to get rid of all of my stuff? And, and so you see these examples, but then you can find Examples of the complete opposite thing at the same time and And so it, yeah, it does beg the question, well, which box should I try to strive for? And yes, it is a, it is a hard thing to break out of because I think all of us just want an answer.

[00:32:29] Like what, what is the best way to honor God with our money? Do I need a lot of it? Do I need a little of it? You know, and you already know the answer, Scott, right? And it's, it's really dependent on your relationship with Christ in that moment of Is money hindering you from pursuing a relationship with Christ and that can, that can be for whether or not you are poor or rich, you know, somebody is financially [00:33:00] poor, they might be just thinking about how to get the next dollar, you know, and they might be striving for money, money, money, money.

[00:33:08] And so, they're not living in a place of contentment, you know, their purpose is to get more money. And that can be the same thing for someone who is very wealthy. They could have lots of money, but pursuing more and more and more. But again, you can have somebody in both of those camps who, somebody who's living very humbly and very poor because they just felt this call from the Lord to continue to give things away.

[00:33:32] And so, that's what they do. They live humbly and they give everything away. Mother Teresa, you know, she was one of those women who just was like, I don't need anything. I'm going to give everything. However, And she was

[00:33:45] Scott Maderer: born and she was born into wealth. She actually came from a very wealthy family.

[00:33:49] Exactly.

[00:33:50] Katie Jones: That's an excellent point to bring up too. It's like she recognized like, yes, I do need to give this all away, but I don't believe that God is calling all of us to do that because [00:34:00] And this is, this is kind of where we almost get practical. Somebody needs to fund the mission of Christ on earth.

[00:34:06] Like, we need wealthy people within the church to help do that. And we see that in the Bible too, that Jesus's ministry was actually supported by a lot of wealthy women which is also an interesting point too, that there were a lot of women who actually funded his ministry. Venture to go out and tell the news of the kingdom of God.

[00:34:29] And so practically speaking, we still need people with wealth to be able to do this. You know, my, my thought is, though, that we just need to find out what the balance is for us. And there's no. Right or wrong answer. It's, it's going to be dependent on your relationship with Christ and the situation that he has put you in the goals that he has given you, you know, the talents he's given you.

[00:34:53] And so you need to be prayerful, like, like you were mentioning, too, is like teaching people to pray about these things [00:35:00] and to listen to the Holy Spirit. And it can change, it can change over time. He could be telling you to give everything away. And then the next you come up with some. Incredible business idea.

[00:35:09] I don't know. And then you become so wealthy, but then it's like, what are you going to do with that money in either situation? How are you stewarding your resources in the middle of it?

[00:35:20] Scott Maderer: Well, and a lot of times too, you know, again, I think it also falls in that camp of when we're looking at that on our own heart.

[00:35:29] That's one thing when we're looking at other people and trying to judge their heart. Mm-hmm . , that's a whole nother problem. , you know, ah,

[00:35:38] Katie Jones: I, I've definitely, you know, judged a book by the cover before where I've seen someone with tons of wealth and I'm like, what are they doing? They, they call themselves a Christian, but then sitting down with this one gentleman who I just kind of believed was not a follower of Christ.

[00:35:54] You know, I, that's just what I. Had plastered on him for like in my own mind and so [00:36:00] then sitting down and being like, oh my gosh, like, no, his heart, like, and it wasn't even that he was like going and doing a lot with this money. It was his heart was so genuine in the midst of his life and what he was pursuing.

[00:36:14] And he's just like, well, and then I don't know. God's just kind of blessed me with this money. So I've kind of been Pouring into my church and doing this and doing that, but it was, it was not in a, like an arrogant kind of way of like, look at all these things that I'm funding and look at all this like excellent work I'm doing.

[00:36:29] Right. We, you know, when, when the woman who Jesus says gave more than the Pharisees in the temple with her two coins, you know, her heart was in a better place than, than those men, because She was humbling herself and being so genuine to just be like, I, I want to do all that I can, even if it's a little, and so it's really great to be, you know, to be able to practically give to [00:37:00] missionaries and to our church and to nonprofits and stuff.

[00:37:03] But again, we can't even judge. Those actions, if our heart is kind of in the wrong place as well. And so I, I've done my fair share of judging books by their cover and I'm sure anybody else has, or I were so broken and I just, I, I can't. I can't,

[00:37:23] Scott Maderer: I don't know what you're talking about. I've never done that.

[00:37:25] Never. Never. I

[00:37:26] Katie Jones: believe you.

[00:37:28] Scott Maderer: Yeah. I, I only do that on days that end in Y. The rest of the time I'm, I'm purely innocent of it. Yeah, the, you know, it, but it's natural and part of it is cause we can't. See, you know, again, God can see into their heart, God can see the whole situation. God knows the plan, God's yet to call me up and go, Hey, let me tell you the plan for Tom over there,

[00:37:51] You know, I, I, I haven't gotten that phone call before , so that'd be nice. I, I, I barely know the [00:38:00] plan for me some days . So, you know so, and I, and I won't claim to ever. Really know that completely. I just have to trust that it's there. So what you know, I I've got a few questions that I like to ask everybody, but before I go there, what else would you like to share about this journey that you've been on and this work that you do that you think is really important for the listener to hear?

[00:38:23] Katie Jones: I think it's really important to, to recognize that your money problems that you might be facing. Are not going to be solved with a better budget. More money. They're not going to be solved with just a new plan even or paying off your debt They're going to be solved through the transformative and Rescuing grace that Jesus offers us and that is the kind of grace that works on our [00:39:00] hearts versus our actual Financial situations.

[00:39:04] And so, yeah, just really honing it in on, and it really comes back to our hearts and that relationship that we have with Jesus.

[00:39:14] Scott Maderer: So my brand is inspired stewardship and I kind of run things through that lens of stewardship. And yet I've discovered over the years that that's one of those words that when people hear it, it has a lot of different meanings to a lot of different people.

[00:39:26] So when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you? Yeah,

[00:39:30] Katie Jones: I have been going on this journey recently of, like, a, a health, like, learning more about, like, health, you know, nutrition and exercise and things like that, and I've always been someone who's talked about stewardship from a financial perspective, but I really Believe and know now that stewardship isn't just about our [00:40:00] finances.

[00:40:00] It's so easy that, like, when we talk about being good stewards, most people do tend to think that it's about our resources, money resources. But again, that word resources can be so broad and important. We miss the point if we forget about all of our other, you know, quote unquote resources you, I know, know this because you talk about, you know, your time, talent, and treasures.

[00:40:25] And so, what are you doing with your time? How are you stewarding your body? How are you stewarding your family? And so, stewarding really is a matter of intentionality with each other. Each of these things that we've been given and blessed with. And so, yeah, what are, how are we using them for the kingdom of God?

[00:40:49] Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I love to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine and with this machine, I was able to pull you from where you are [00:41:00] today and transport you into the future. Maybe 150, maybe 250 years. And through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life.

[00:41:09] See all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left. What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

[00:41:20] Katie Jones: As a new mom, I just think a lot about my son and again, this word stewardship, like how are we stewarding all these things really well. And so I really would love to steward the time that I have with him. Excellently. And knowing that The impact I had on his life then can go and impact the lives of others, like whether it's his own children one day or the people that he comes in contact with.

[00:41:51] And I would just love to know that as a mother, that this one life was [00:42:00] dramatically changed by. The love I have for him and the love that God has given me to give to him. Right. You know, we, we can only love because Christ first loved us. And so, yeah, I, I think about that. I think almost every day, Scott, it's, I don't know, it's something that I would love to know made an impact for him.

[00:42:25] Scott Maderer: So what's on the roadmap, what's coming next as you continue on this journey?

[00:42:29] Katie Jones: Yeah so I have an online financial school, redeeming your finances, and I've basically turned my coaching program into this financial school for believers, and it's brand new as of 2024, and I don't know. I've, I have a lot of really incredible ideas for how this will develop and how I'd love to be able to equip believers all over to know [00:43:00] how to excellently manage their money for the glory of God, you know, using gospel principles, you know, gospel centric concepts.

[00:43:10] And so I have a lot of big ideas as far as like. You know, different courses and classes and things that I want to be able to teach people and equip them with. And so just trying to not get ahead of myself, right? We've talked about how I, I easily make these kinds of goals my target at all, all times.

[00:43:30] And so I have to be mindful of every step that I take and not jump into things too quickly. And so yeah, I, I do have a lot of ideas for it and I'm just excited to see how God kind of grows this and evolves it over time.

[00:43:50] Scott Maderer: So you can find out more about Katie over on her website and it's at redeemingyourfinances.

[00:43:57] com. That's all one word. Of course, I'll have a link to that over in [00:44:00] the show notes as well. Katie, is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:44:06] Katie Jones: Yeah if anyone is looking to take this journey on to become an excellent steward of the resources that God has given them and be able to create a truly gospel centered financial plan.

[00:44:22] I have a really great place where you can start. You can grab my gospel centered budgeting workbook. I will have, I can share a link with you for people to go and grab that, but they can also find it at the redeeming your finances website. It's a really great place to start to think about some of these questions and topics that we have been talking about today and totally for free.

[00:44:43] And I love to get to equip people. And to just get started, right. Just start having these conversations. So, yeah.

[00:44:52] Scott Maderer: And thanks so much. I'll be sure to put a link to that over in the show notes as well.[00:45:00]

[00:45:01] Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode, Please, please do us a favor, go over to inspired stewardship.

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