Episode 1477: Interview with Doris Jackson-Shazier About her Book "Raising Justice" and Diversity in the Workplace

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1477 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:08] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: I'm Doris Jackson Shazier. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to find empathy with others and strengthen your own journey is key.

[00:00:27] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott

[00:00:36] Maderer.

[00:00:42] What does it feel like to be included but not feel like you belong there? Then you create opportunity for tokens. Now I feel like I'm just a face in a space in a room because I don't feel like I belong. Or you invited me to the dance, but when I got there, no one asked me to [00:01:00] dance or no one played the type of music that I like.

[00:01:02] To dance too. So even though I'm included, I don't feel like I belong.

[00:01:07] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you.

[00:01:31] can impact the world.

[00:01:38] Doris Jackson Shazier is an author, a speaker, an ICF accredited leadership coach, a people management consultant, and an accomplished leader with over two decades of dedicated experience in fostering organizational growth, transformation, and excellence. Renowned for her authentic and collaborative leadership approach, Doris [00:02:00] consistently serves as a leader, mentor, and facilitator to many.

[00:02:03] She has held roles at the store, district, regional, and director level in the restaurant and retail industry. Doris is a wife and a mother of four with a passion for empowering families to cultivate deeper connections and stronger faith through the transformative power of love, grace, and forgiveness. As a Christian woman in leadership, Doris often shares with women how to apply biblical teachings and our God given instincts of nurturing, problem solving, and collaboration to contribute at a high level in our home, our workplace, and our community.

[00:02:37] In today's podcast episode, I interview Doris Jackson Shazier. I asked Doris about her life and faith journey and how it brought her to where she is today. I also asked Doris about her book, Raising Justice, and what inspired her to write it. And Doris also shares with you how diversity isn't just about having others included, but also helping them feel that they belong.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living, assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it and sign up for free. For getting more information over@inspiredstewardship.com Inspired Living. That's inspired stewardship.com.

[00:03:21] Inspired living. Welcome to the show, Doris. Thank you. So excited about being here, Scott. Absolutely. So I shared a little bit in the intro about some of the things you've done, some of the trainings you've had, some of the places you've been, but I always think of intros as It's like the Instagram photos of our life, right?

[00:03:41] It only captures so much. And honestly, usually it captures what we want people to see, not necessarily the full story. And yet I know our journeys are always richer and deeper. And, there's more to the story than just the surface level. Would you talk a little bit more about your journey and what has brought you to [00:04:00] the point where you're focusing now on the work that you're doing?

[00:04:04] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Wow. So thank you for the opportunity to share because you're right. So our introductions are just one part of us. And sometimes when I do my introductions, it's about what I do. And I think what I do and who I am sometimes are different, right? And so as a leadership coach, I partner with people, I help them to remove that limited thinking and reach their full potential.

[00:04:28] But who I am is I'm Doris Danielle. I'm a mother of four. I have the interesting experience of having a 20 year old, a 17 year old, an 11 year old and a five year old. So I have four kids at different stages of their life. So yeah, it's a pretty big spread, right? It's a big spread, but what it does is it allows me to exercise just.

[00:04:53] numerous sets of muscles and how I lead others and nurture this family. I'm the wife [00:05:00] to, my, my husband, we've been together since college, 21 years. And my journey to, to right now is about leading others. And I've been able to do it my whole life, not only in the home, not only in the workforce.

[00:05:16] I'm also the second oldest of seven brothers and five sisters. So when I think about stewardship and I think about leadership and my journey to the work that I do today, I think about how I've been positioned to do it my whole life. So it's always exciting to do this kind of work.

[00:05:36] Scott Maderer: So let me ask you something about that.

[00:05:39] Cause you know, one of the things that I've found in both leadership work that I've done as well as in coaching is, you don't want to like, if you're in a leadership position, let's say you have employees reporting to you. You don't want to quote, think of them as your children. They're adults, they're not kids, and yet in some ways there is some of the [00:06:00] same sorts of things that happen when we're parenting that kind of, in terms of service and mentorship and growth and those sorts of things.

[00:06:08] How do you help leaders see that, what it's like and what's different,

[00:06:12] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: They do that. So I really think that a lot of this is the same. I think it requires the same skillset. So you exercise the same muscle. It's almost the intensity or the degree to which you use those same set of skills depend.

[00:06:27] It's different in the environment so you can be nurturing with your leaders at work and your leaders at home. You can be a collaborator. You can seek to understand. You can recognize effort. You can create role clarity. You can set goals and expectations. You, they're the same. High accountability, high morale is how I phrase it.

[00:06:51] How do you set expectations and help people to get there, and then how do you balance that with the relationship that you have with them? But I'm of the belief system that it [00:07:00] requires the same skill sets that lead build to lead and build successful teams, same skills at work and at home. Now the intensity is, what is different.

[00:07:11] I think. The biggest differentiator for me is you can't fire your family if they work for you, I guess you can, if they work for you, they can, but the wrong, the runway is different. And so I do think that we have to differentiate. A lot quicker between when we change the dynamics of the relationship, depending on the work in a home environment at home and certain things that I don't fire.

[00:07:41] My kids is a different approach. I have to elevate or adjust the relationship. At work, firing that person is war or I say promoting that person to guess is one of the ways that I can adapt or change the relationship. But besides that, I believe it's [00:08:00] the same skill set to be successful in both areas.

[00:08:04] Scott Maderer: So talk a little bit, you mentioned two, that you're a Christian woman in leadership.

[00:08:08] That's even part of your intro. Talk a little bit about how your faith journey and how that development and that part of your life has intersected with your views on leadership and the coaching that you do and the work that you do with leaders.

[00:08:22] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Yeah, I think it makes me a better leader.

[00:08:27] I think that it makes me a more empathetic leader. And I told people number one that, sometimes I have to describe how I got there with my sales goals and things like that. I'm like, some of these things you can implement here and other things you have to implement outside. I pray for my teams.

[00:08:45] I've been known to anoint the stores as a Christian woman. So my faith definitely plays a part in my belief system and then also how I treat others. I think one of the ways that I've been able to build successful team is how I [00:09:00] have role modeled. That balance of accountability and morale.

[00:09:05] I've had to do a termination before, and the person got up and hug me and because it's that relationship that I've built with them recently, I launched my book and an employee that I had terminated maybe 5 years prior came to my book launch. And at first I was in shock. What is she doing here?

[00:09:25] And she walks up and I say, Hey what are you doing here? She says I remember when I worked for you, you always said you wanted to be an author. And I saw it online, I just, came across it and I wanted to support you. And I was like, really? You wanted to support me? And she's yeah. You were the nicest boss I ever had.

[00:09:43] And so even in the situation, the way that it ended, I left an impact with her and it meant a lot for her to want to show up for me almost five years later, because she appreciated the way that I treated her, even when it was difficult. And so my faith allows me to [00:10:00] give people grace. to treat them with respect, even when things may not be going right.

[00:10:06] Scott Maderer: I think a lot of times too as leaders like you said, how you share it and what you share, may change, inside of a workplace from outside, back to what we were talking about with your parent child, but, and yet at the core, it sounds like a lot of the beliefs that you have from your faith allow you to approach the workplace.

[00:10:24] In a way that's authentic to you, but also. real with your employees.

[00:10:29] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Yeah, because as a Christian, one of the things that I'm aware of is that I am a walking testimony and I don't want to behave or do something in a way that may turn someone away from Christ. So even though I'm not there to promote being a Christian, I'm a role model.

[00:10:46] I don't want them to go back and say that person called themselves a Christian and that's the way they behave. And so I have my own set of guiding principles that I carry with me and people, some things are taught and other things are caught. And [00:11:00] so it's one of those things that I don't have to teach him anything, but they'll catch on.

[00:11:04] Scott Maderer: Yeah. One of the best compliments I ever got from a client who was not a Christian was, Scott, I know you're Christian, but you're not annoying about it. And I'm like, I'll take that as a compliment, because I understand exactly what you mean. And I know some of those Christians. I know, I'm like, I know exactly who you speak of.

[00:11:24] I go to church with a few of them. I got you. I understand.

[00:11:27] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: And I strive not to be that person. I just want to be an example. I want to be a joy and I want people to look at me and say, my God what is it?

[00:11:35] Scott Maderer: Yeah, you can be authentic to who you are without necessarily being obnoxious to other people.

[00:11:42] And that goes for both. That goes for people who are people of faith and people who aren't. Cause again, same thing. I know some people who are not that are obnoxious about it. And I know some people that are not obnoxious about it. So yeah, it, it works. So you mentioned the book Raising Justice.

[00:11:58] What, you said you [00:12:00] wanted to be an Arthur. And to the extent that an employee. from several years before I knew it. What brought you to the point of writing the book and tell us a little bit about the book and what it is that you're putting out.

[00:12:10] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: So I started this book when my daughter was about five years old.

[00:12:13] I was more than almost 15 years ago. And I journaled it and it began with her just telling our story, her being the type of child that challenged me and really documenting my journey of parenting in a way that I wasn't parented. And so when you hear raising justice, the title has two meanings.

[00:12:31] Number one, justice is the name of my first child. So literally I'm raising justice. But the other part of that is more action oriented. I'm asking people to raise justice. I am talking, I'm encouraging people to, sometimes we have to parent in a way that we weren't parented and that's okay. And so you hear in this book, a lot of those transparent moments, those moments where I pause and I think and say, just because it was done to me, doesn't mean I have to do it that way.

[00:12:59] Or that's because I [00:13:00] grew up that way. Doesn't mean it needs to be like that going forward. So to raise justice is really about parenting in a way that you weren't parented in just this pursuit of giving a better life for our children. And so I started documenting it a while ago and I'll be honest, I've been busy.

[00:13:17] And good busy. I was building leaders. I was getting promoted. I was having children, living life and I it was on the back burner and I would like to call it a interruption of everything. I was one of those people that had COVID hospitalized for seven days. I was on oxygen treatment for three months and it really sat me down.

[00:13:39] And in the quietness, I really started to focus on, is my life currently aligned with my purpose? And what I feel like I want to do are my actions aligned with that? And I realize in some ways it was, but in many it wasn't. I knew that there were books that I'm supposed to be writing, and I had been putting them on the back burner.

[00:13:59] So when I [00:14:00] decided to exit corporate America, a year and a half ago, one of my top priorities were to go ahead and start writing those books that God put in my heart to do and raising justice is the first of many to come

[00:14:12] Scott Maderer: with. You think about the message that you're sharing there, the focus on parenting how do you think that, Same message again, let's bring it back over into the leadership.

[00:14:21] Cause I'm betting there's lessons in there for that as well. How do those two

[00:14:26] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: connect to you? A part of my mission, I have so many objectives for this book, but part of my mission is to help. people understand that motherhood is a leadership position. And I think sometimes people think that motherhood is a liability in the workforce.

[00:14:44] Oh, they have other priorities. Oh, they got to deal with daycare. And I've heard all those things as, Again, a young mom, and I built my career as a mom. I became a mom at 19 years old, so I built my whole career and moved through the corporate ladder with children in [00:15:00] tow. And so I've heard and seen, just the attitudes toward motherhood and leadership.

[00:15:06] And I really want this book to redefine that. What you learn in motherhood You apply in the workplace. They sure even more equipped to deal with some of the things that you may face in the workplace based off of your experiences in motherhood. And so I really want this book to also serve as an example of how motherhood is a leadership position.

[00:15:28] Scott Maderer: So what are some of the lessons, you mentioned having the approach of looking at your parenting and going, yep, I was raised that way, but I'm not going to do it that way. What are some of the advice that you would give to, maybe there's a new mom listening to this or young mom listening to this and.

[00:15:45] They have got to have a same, similar situation where they're reflecting on some of the things that I went through, I don't want to go through. What are some of the lessons that you would share or ideas that you would share for folks to, to be able to break out [00:16:00] of that?

[00:16:00] Because a lot, Repeating the same behavior is a lot easier than breaking the mold.

[00:16:06] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: It really is. It really is. I think number one, it always starts with mindset, as a fellow coach, you understand that it's all in how we approach and we think about things. I think if I had to give advice to a young mother, I think the one thing that We almost have to do as parents, but nobody really says out loud to help you prepare for that is advocacy.

[00:16:32] You eventually get that, okay, I'm this kid's advocate and I have to defend them, but I think at some point we just don't get the totality of that. What happens when it's the, your in laws. What happens when it's the school system? What happens when it goes against your belief system? What happens?

[00:16:52] There's a lot that you have to start thinking about, especially if you're a naturally conflict avoidant person, but now you're responsible [00:17:00] for someone who can't speak for themselves. And so how do you now, you've been able to be non confrontational and skate by all life, and now you're responsible for someone else and you're their advocate.

[00:17:12] And so I think that we go into parenthood and we understand there's a little bit of care there, but there's some conflict. There's some advocacy that we have to, there's another muscle we have to exercise there. So my advice is, how are you an advocate? How do you deal with conflict? How do you deal with obstacles?

[00:17:29] It's really important to evaluate as you're going into parenting because I think a lot of issues that start to stem if we went all the way down to the root cause, it's sometimes our inability to handle conflict or advocate properly or protect in some kind of way. And then it has lasting impacts on the relationships that we have with our children because we didn't advocate or we didn't protect or we didn't understand or we didn't realize when they were younger.[00:18:00]

[00:18:01] Scott Maderer: And again, that, I can't help but reflect on the leadership part of that where, I think a lot of times in leadership roles. if we're conflict avoidant, if we don't want to advocate for employees, it's the same, back to what you said same exercise, same muscles, just different framework or different application.

[00:18:18] How have you found, in your work and you talked about it a little bit with motherhood but just even in a broader context, I do think there's a lot of times in the workplace where there's challenges around. Whether it's male, female, whether it's, racial background, whether it's socioeconomic, different things that are come up where there's conclusions drawn in the workplace about this person can't fill that role because of X, Y, Z, and we talk a lot about diversity and inclusion and part of, I think there's a myth about that, and then there's facts about that , if that makes sense.

[00:18:55] What would you share about your experience as a leader, as a mother coming up in those sorts of corporate [00:19:00] roles where, you've seen the value of how we approach that, how has it been approached in a way that you've seen successful as opposed to the straw man that a lot of people put out when they talk about it?

[00:19:13] Yeah.

[00:19:13] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: No I get where you're going. So I would tell you again, not only as a mother and a black woman in corporate America, but also I serve as a president of the diversity council for the company that I work for, in which I help create and a safe space for all people, veterans, single parents, just all different type of minority experiences.

[00:19:41] And I know there's a lot of the colorful conversation around DEIB diversity, inclusion, equity, and belonging. And my stance is this, that they all matter. All of them. All four of them together. Here's an example I'll use. When [00:20:00] we bring someone when we say we're going to include people.

[00:20:02] Let's say for me, I went into a director role and I went in as a diverse candidate. Again, I bring a certain set of experiences perspective into the room that creates value because now, as we're thinking and brainstorming together. We are able to think for our broader population. We got representation there.

[00:20:23] And so diversity is good and equity is about me being treated and given the same opportunity and compensation and benefits while I'm there. That's pretty good. And inclusion again, I got the invitation. I have a seat at the table. But then let's say we decide that belonging doesn't matter. What does it feel like to be included, but not feel like you belong there? Then you create opportunity for tokenism. Now I feel like I'm just a face in a space in a room because I don't feel like I belong. Or you invited me to the dance, but when I got there, no one asked me to [00:21:00] dance or no one played the type of music that I like to dance to.

[00:21:04] So even though I'm included, I don't feel like I belong. And so I think sometimes where people get hyped on the media definition of D E I B and those type of things, take all that stuff out of it and just get down to the human element of it. It's about feeling included, making people feel like they belong.

[00:21:25] If you invited someone to your home and you knew they were vegetarian, would you create, would you cook all meat? No, you would cook some size that you knew would appeal to them and that way they know that they belong there. So yes, you invited them, but if you didn't have something for them to eat, and did they really belong?

[00:21:46] And so that's the importance of D. I. B. That's the importance of representation, because if I wasn't in the room, then you might not have known that we need to have a vegetarian option, so I try to get people to think about it in [00:22:00] just more simpler terms, because I think they talk about it in and somehow it's a competitive advantage and it's all these different, Things or to make people feel bad about who they are, because of what happened years before all of us were here.

[00:22:14] No. That's not what it's about. It's the simplest form of how you make people feel.

[00:22:20] Scott Maderer: And I think as you said, the, one of the points that I think a lot of times people lose track of is, there, there are advantages to having different voices. in the room. Now it's often harder, to get to the place where you actually can, have consensus and everybody's on the same page and all that.

[00:22:38] It's more work, but there's also an advantage to it, so it's and I think sometimes people see it as more work and therefore not worth it, where it's no, it's worth it. You'll have an advantage. You just, You got to work a little harder sometimes to get there.

[00:22:52] You got to take some extra steps or some extra effort to be able to get there. But like you said, the effort's not really hard. It's a, [00:23:00] it's simple in concept. It may be difficult sometimes to get it to play out, but it's simple in concept. It's really just inviting people and actually.

[00:23:09] really inviting people. Not just tokenly inviting somebody to the table, but actually meeting. No, I actually want your opinion and your opinion is valuable and we want to hear your experience. Yeah. And again, I've been in corporate, I've been in leadership roles and I've seen both sides myself where people that, that look at it as valuable and people that look at it as a hassle.

[00:23:31] And it's it's

[00:23:31] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Yeah, I've seen it too. And I've come and I'll bring, Hey, this is what the council discussed and dah. And then if it has any type of financial implications, then it's we don't know if we were able to do that, or it's low on the Tatum poll for budget and things like that.

[00:23:44] And it's okay. Yeah. And I understand from a corporate standpoint, how we have to prioritize, but I just really wish sometimes people would in, Use it as it's like politically charged conversation. D. I. B. is really about empathy. That's [00:24:00] it. Like when it gets down to the over, if you chunk it up to the overarching value of it, it's about empathy.

[00:24:07] It's about representation. It's about belonging.

[00:24:13] Scott Maderer: And I think sometimes when even with the financial, it's people. look at it in the wrong way. And I'll give you a an example of, if you're doing things that make people feel included, feel like they belong. Feel like that. And then for, they're more likely to stay with your company.

[00:24:33] As anyone who's ever worked in the world knows hiring and training, a new person is very expensive and almost always more expensive than just keeping the person you got, so why not spend a little money to keep the people you've got by making them actually. I mean that I'm putting it in a very cold calculated mathematical term, but that was always my pushback when people told me there's no money for it.

[00:24:58] It's Oh no, you're going to spend this [00:25:00] money one way or the other, do you want to spend it to keep people or do you want to spend it to hire and retrain? Because that's, what's going to happen. Exactly.

[00:25:07] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: You're exactly right.

[00:25:08] Scott Maderer: Because you're still going to spend the money. It's just where are you going to spend it?

[00:25:11] But I think they lose, I think it's easy to lose track of that. So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I ask those, is there anything else about the work you do or raising justice that you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:25:26] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Oh, I think one other point that I probably would love to share about raising justice.

[00:25:32] I always like to tell people the beginning and the end, because the meat really is in the middle, right? In this book, guys, you get to find me as a 19 year old first generation college student, and it really starts outside of what I thought was an abortion clinic. And I like to tell people that up front this book starts It starts there with someone who was on a full scholarship and contemplating whether I need to move forward with this [00:26:00] decision.

[00:26:00] And then this book ends with me blocks away from that building, watching a 19 year old justice walk across the collegiate stage and graduate at college at 19. And you get to see this full circle moment of a 19 year old mom being confused who goes through this journey of raising a vibrant and intelligent and ambitious child who graduates at the age that she was contemplating even having her.

[00:26:33] And so it's definitely a God moment. It's a God story. You hear the specific prayers that I pray in the pregnancy that God answered along the way. And it just really gets you all the feels. It gets you inspired. It gets you motivated. And it really does, I think, exemplify what the audacity of hope looks like.

[00:26:55] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. So my brand is Inspired Stewardship, [00:27:00] and I run things through that lens of stewardship, but like leadership, I found that stewardship is one of those words that people use, but it means a lot of different things in a lot of different contexts to a lot of different people. So when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you?

[00:27:15] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: So when I hear it, I think I hear it more from a biblical standpoint. I think about it's the way that we care for our manage, the resources that God has given us, be it people, money, time, talent, but how are we kind of good stewards on the gift of the gifts that we've been given? So that's how I think about it.

[00:27:34] Scott Maderer: What has the impact of that understanding had on you?

[00:27:38] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: So in the stillness of, my COVID experience, I remember seven days hospitalized, three months in oxygen treatment. It really allowed me to reflect and think about how am I being a good steward over the resources that God had given me or how my actions are aligned with what I felt was my life [00:28:00] purpose.

[00:28:00] And I really just started to think about it and just really recraft and realign my life based off of being a good, a better steward of the time that God has given me and the talents that he's given me. And so it really changed had me change course and where I was going in life.

[00:28:22] Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody.

[00:28:26] I imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine and with this machine, I could take you from where you are today and transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years. Wow. And with the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life and see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left behind.

[00:28:49] What impact do you hope you've left in the world?

[00:28:51] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: I would like to have made stronger and better leaders and disciples of Christ. [00:29:00] Hands down. I want my journey to help encourage others to to lead in an empathetic way to help others to understand who they are in Christ and to build stronger families, really.

[00:29:15] Scott Maderer: So what's next? What's on the roadmap as you continue on your journey?

[00:29:19] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: Ah, so what's next for me? I'm in the editing phase of my second book. It's called Pieces to Peace, Overcoming Corporate and COVID. And so I really talk about my career journey. So in Raising Justice, you hear more about my learnings and in my leadership, maybe in the home.

[00:29:38] And in Pieces to Peace, you'll hear more about my journey in the workforce and and how, God allowed me to go into the rooms and the spaces that I really wanted to and achieve the positions that my heart was set on and me to walk into those rooms. And then for me to start realizing that I didn't really want to be there.[00:30:00]

[00:30:01] And I talk about the courage to exit. out of an environment in some ways that had become comfortable and toxic. So it was what I was used to, but it also was hurting me and I needed to leap and change. It wasn't aligned with my purpose. So I'm excited about Pieces to Peace and sharing that healing journey of overcoming, my mindset and thought process around corporate America and my COVID experience.

[00:30:31] Scott Maderer: So you can find out more about Doris over at her website, dorisjacksonshazier. com. Of course, I'll have links to all of that over in the show notes as well. Doris, anything else you'd like to share with the listeners?

[00:30:44] Doris Jasckson-Shazier: No, first of all, thank you so much, Scott, for the opportunity to share more about my journey and my brand.

[00:30:50] I really appreciate it. The only other thing I would like to share is catch me on social media. I'm a very colorful and vibrant person and sharing all the great things I'm doing out there. [00:31:00] So I am on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram, and also TikTok. You can pull me up with my name and all of them.

[00:31:08] Scott Maderer: Awesome. Thanks so much. I appreciate having you on today. Thank you again, Scott.

[00:31:20] Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.com/.

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