Episode 1433: Interview with Josh Fonger About Becoming a Christian Business Coach

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1433 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:07] Josh Fonger: I'm Josh Fonger. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence, and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to see your business as God's business is key, and one way to be inspired to do that is I

[00:00:40] will go through an exercise where we'll map out every single thing that they do, as well as. Ideally how they do what they do. And once they realize the inefficiencies, the ineffectiveness, the opportunity for delegation, the opportunity for automation, for technology, that's when they start to have an aha moment that, Oh, like the way I've [00:01:00] been doing this for all these years is not effective or not efficient.

[00:01:04] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, Then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:35] In today's podcast, I interview Josh Fonger. I asked Josh about his journey to becoming a coach and how he finally learned to focus on faith as well as business. Josh also shares how you can get more results with less effort. And I also asked Josh about how you can grow both as an organization and as an individual.

[00:01:56] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living, [00:02:00] assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it and sign up. for getting more information over at InspiredStewardship. com Inspired Living. That's InspiredStewardship. com Inspired Living.

[00:02:19] Josh is the founder of Fourth Soil Ventures. He is a Christian business coach, a consultant, an advisor, and he focuses on helping Christian men grow their businesses top line, bottom line, and finish line. In other words, their kingdom impact. Over the last 15 years, Josh has personally consulted or coached over 1, 000 business owners from more than 300 industries, from small startup businesses to 500 million enterprises.

[00:02:49] Welcome to the show, Josh!

[00:02:51] Josh Fonger: Hey, glad to be here, Scott.

[00:02:53] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. So I talked a little bit in the intro about some of the work you do as [00:03:00] a Christian focused business coach consultant, all of those things. And you've been working in this field on and off for a while, but I know it's been quite a journey to actually get to this point.

[00:03:13] Would you share a little bit about back up? How did you get here?

[00:03:18] Josh Fonger: Yeah, so the quick recap is undergraduate degree in architecture. Then I ended up getting an MBA, so in business and my early career was in real estate development, commercial real estate, and I was one of the casualties of the 2007, eight crash.

[00:03:34] And at that point lost everything and really had to figure out what I was gonna do with my life. So I could not find any work in real estate, had a few kids and I needed to do something with my life. And the only. Job I could find was to be a business consultant, which was not what I had wanted to do with my life.

[00:03:55] I actually wrote a, an essay in college about why you shouldn't hire a business [00:04:00] consultant. It's better just to grow those ideas internally and be the catalyst internally not have an outside person. And so it was the only work I could find. And I jumped into it and said let's see how I do.

[00:04:14] And I think that's part of God's sense of humor and Providence and the whole lot more goes behind that. But I ended up really loving the work, really enjoying it. And so phase one of my career was really focusing on one industry and learning how to do. Inside sales and outside sales and merchandising and leadership development and culture just flat on the country.

[00:04:35] That was phase one. And then phase two was saying, okay, now that I've done the single industry, now I'm going to work with all industries. And I've been doing that for 15 years. It's just all industries and really focusing on how do I make them grow? So making more money that was the focus more money.

[00:04:52] And then how do I make sure that the owners have more time? I was at time and money. And as long as I hit those benchmarks, time and money, I was being a [00:05:00] good consult. And phase three is realizing that's really why we're here today is realizing that there's a whole lot more to work than just money and time, right?

[00:05:11] There's the fact that we're stewards and actually what matters is the kingdom impact. How is, how are we using, we've been given to glorify God in a big part of that. Is through our work. And so really what my coaching and consulting is phase three is helping business owners to actually integrate their faith into their work, which God has a multiplier effect when you do that.

[00:05:37] Scott Maderer: Let's back up to the beginning part of that, and then I want to we'll jump to the end too, but you said you wrote a paper in college about how you shouldn't hire a business consultant, do this internally, and then you became a business consultant how was that, what did you discover that went from your view as a paper versus [00:06:00] when you became one what changed or what was the discovery that you found that, that allowed you to feel like you could do that With integrity and rightfully yeah. What I realized is that a lot of things, owners, I don't have one thing, so owners have blind spots for one and their team is likely not going to tell them that because they want to keep their jobs. There's a lot of fear as a lot of hiddenness and owners being owners, very isolated. You can't actually share what's going on with the financials, what's going on with the culture issues, what's going on with a lot of aspects of the company because your staff.

[00:06:36] Josh Fonger: Maybe you shouldn't hear it, can't hear it, doesn't know how to react to it. And so it's very isolating. And then there's a lot of skills that are happening out there in the marketplace, innovations, changes, and trainings that owners they're just so they're so in the in the weeds of their own business that they're not aware of.

[00:06:56] And so those new ideas, those new innovations, those new ways to do business, [00:07:00] they're not expert in, they don't have the time, they To get trained in it. And so an outside person can be that catalyst for new initiatives, new projects, new ideas, and integrating ideas that their team can't necessarily tell them.

[00:07:12] So there's a lot of benefits in having an outside person. And of course scripture backs it up by saying, Hey, like having an outside advisor, having any advisors is a good thing. And not I'll listen to everybody, but having somehow trust who are wise is smart. And so I realized that there is, there's a benefit.

[00:07:32] And a consultant

[00:07:36] Scott Maderer: When you've moved in that evolution from focusing on one industry to then doing more industries and now realizing that maybe the metric of just, Hey, I helped them make more time. I helped or get more time and have more money or whatever it is to now injecting some of the faith component of that.

[00:07:54] What what brought you to the point of saying, Hey let's look at this a little bit [00:08:00] more holistically and talk about the other parts of your life, including your faith your relationships those sorts of things that affect us versus just the quote, unquote, Air quotes around this business metric what's the bottom line.

[00:08:15] And I gotta say that in a harsh voice.

[00:08:21] Josh Fonger: Yeah. Again, I wish I had a single answer, but for one, I felt like in some cases I was not being equally yoked with the clients I had. So when I worked with somebody, I was on an amazing success and my goals, my vision, my dream for what I do for work I wanted to line up my faith because I know.

[00:08:40] In the end, without faith, it's impossible to please God, and our work is going to be tested at the end. And if I'm really spending a significant portion of time and energy focused on a company, and I want them to succeed I know that what they're doing is, not aligned, right? And we're we're missing each other along the [00:09:00] way.

[00:09:00] And so it that for one is a huge challenge. Everyone can apply principles of honesty and principles of integrity and principles of excellence, which is great. It should, that does better the world, but in terms of what I want to focus my time on is a slight difference. So I think that's been a big part of it is just realizing that I'm better served if I can really be excited about what is their end goal.

[00:09:27] And I've also seen just. Practically speaking, is that when an owner is not leading well, and the owner does not have a good vision and the owner doesn't really love and care about the customers and really love and care about their team no matter what strategies and what systems and what things they come up with.

[00:09:47] Those plans keep failing because the owner has capped it out by saying, I really just care about my money, my time, and everyone around them knows that they're not there to serve my success decreases [00:10:00] dramatically when I am working with a leader like that, no matter what technique and advisement I build it's always going to be capped and it's really frustrating for me in my work.

[00:10:11] And so I just want to work with people that I'm aligned with.

[00:10:15] Scott Maderer: How about your own personal faith and your own personal faith journey, how going back and thinking about how it's evolved over the years how has your faith journey changed? And then how has it affected your work?

[00:10:29] And then how has your work affected your faith journey? What's that kind of feedback loop that I think we all find ourselves on?

[00:10:36] Josh Fonger: Yeah, so I grew up thinking I was a Christian going to college, realizing I wasn't actually and just realizing the depravity of my existence and ended up meeting my wife the next day after I came to that realization.

[00:10:51] And over the next six months being, being discipled by a Bible study, a strong Christian man. And then Committing my life to Christ and then having a [00:11:00] very, I would say not a straight path afterwards in terms of integrating my faith into my life and a lot of wrong turns, but God is faithful.

[00:11:10] He's got his patient and thankfully he's continued to reveal different aspects where I wasn't integrating my faith into, Practice. And with business, it's a great example because, I would say that a lot of my life has been separated as in here's church life, family life, everything else okay, now it's work.

[00:11:33] Okay. I work, this is what matters and again, the bottom line and then realizing that actually God does care about work. He created work, he created out of the gardens that work it and wants us to be fruitful and multiply. And so there's a way. To do work that actually can be worshipful.

[00:11:51] That can actually be loving. It can actually be serving. And that's been the evolution is realizing that me reforming my [00:12:00] work and my client's work is going to actually produce way better results. And eternal results. And I like to say that I have focused on companies, top line their bottom line and the finish line so in the end, when they, when God reveals his judgments upon our work, you can say, well done.

[00:12:20] And so that's been the evolution. And that's been the I guess the. Sanctification that God's done in my life. And I I just want to be a part of working with other business owners who are aligned with that.

[00:12:33] Scott Maderer: Doing that same journey. When you think about faith and work like you said, I think a lot of a struggle with that idea of keeping it separate, right.

[00:12:45] And again, in the workplace today, a lot of times there's a struggle with. How do you integrate faith in a way that's still respectful and considerate of others and all of those things? How has that part of [00:13:00] the struggle affected what you do?

[00:13:03] Josh Fonger: I, yeah what I like to think about it is, so if you're growing your top line, and this has to do with doing good work.

[00:13:11] So there's a lot of work in this world that as you produce more and as people buy more of it, It doesn't actually doesn't produce good an example of that would be if you're a drug dealer, like you're producing more, you're selling more, your customers are happy, you're happy, like you're not doing good work, right?

[00:13:29] So it starts with actually producing something that's going to be helpful. Let's say that you you're like, you're an electrician or you you're a landscaper, you're a doctor, like you're doing something good. You're doing something helpful in the world. That's great. Now, doing more of a good thing is better than doing less of it because you're going to be helping more people and to do more, you're going to need to have more workers help you produce that.

[00:13:52] And so I think that the first aspect is that if your work is expanding and multiplying and it's good, it's actually helping and it's done to the [00:14:00] glory of God, that's good. You should grow it as much as you can, right? Because that's the first thing is that you're multiplying good. The second thing is bottom line, you're going to be doing it effectively, efficiently, being a good steward of it, doing it excellently.

[00:14:13] That's also good, right? That's going to be a reflection of God's ordering chaos, right? So those two aspects is you can work hard and do it that way. That's awesome. Do more of it. I'd love to be a part of it. And then the last thing is the finish line is there should be a creation of more to the process, abundance, wealth, time, resources.

[00:14:32] And you can do that. Like what God says that the rich should be rich and in good works, right? And be generous and be helpful. And so if you're given that leadership opportunity in work and you're excelling in your work, then you have even more to give more time, more talent, more treasure. And.

[00:14:52] Whether that's growing your current business, whether that's helping family, the poor, you name it, but it, I think that [00:15:00] it's capping your business and saying I want to cap my business. So then I can do some ministry. It's a business is my ministry and I'm going to have it flourish and I'm going to use it.

[00:15:11] Not to just flourish myself, but to flourish everyone that God has put in my life. And that I think is the idea there of multiplication. The idea there of abundance is not, my business works now I'm rich. It's. My business works now I'm rich in good works. And that would be the way to think through it.

[00:15:32] Scott Maderer: So when you think about the processes that you actually use let's think about a business owner that's out there that maybe is hearing some of what you're sharing is okay, this, I, this is an area where I need help, maybe I do need to bring in an outside person. What are some of the processes you use to actually help the organization and the individual?

[00:15:53] Along that way.

[00:15:55] Josh Fonger: Yeah. And I'd like to say that at first I'm not going to reinvent the wheel. [00:16:00] Business is business. Time is time. Money is money. He, or people like there's a lot of fundamentals and a lot of information that's out there today at 20 years was not out there. So it's out there.

[00:16:10] So what I do is because I've been doing this for 15 years with a lot of clients is that I'm going to assemble. What they actually need to hear and see and do and then help them apply it in an organized methodical way. To get the results. And so a simple, framework would be, Hey, we're going to pray together.

[00:16:33] We're going to assess every client. I start with a, doing a full assessment of their business, all aspects of the business, their operations, their sales and finance, their HR all those things. And then really understand what is your goals for your business? What are the problems for your business?

[00:16:47] What are the projects for your business? And once I know that. Then build a plan, very simply build a plan that was the short term medium term long term plan and then work them through a framework. And the framework that I use [00:17:00] is for one, we want the owner to grow as a leader. So every session that they want them to grow as their leader leadership.

[00:17:07] Second, I want them to grow in their knowledge and experience with a specific focus area in business that is, is weak or that as an opportunity, whether that is sales, that is pricing, that is positioning, whether that is whatever the aspect of the business is. Business fundamentals are missing.

[00:17:22] And then we're working on their projects, making sure those are going forward, those long term projects, and then hot issues. So hot issues basically is what happened today, last week, last few weeks, that is urgent and important. And you've got no one else to talk to you. And I'm here because I have worked with a lot of companies through problems.

[00:17:46] It's clear out of the way. So we can continue to work on the long term vision for the business. And then lastly I think you do some coaching as well is accountability is huge. That I used to be a personal trainer. [00:18:00] Everyone knows how to exercise for the most part. Everyone knows how to eat healthy generally speaking, but it's the accountability.

[00:18:07] It's the, someone there who is your cheerleader, your advocate, who's focusing you on what you want to focus on. I think that's a huge part of coaching.

[00:18:21] Scott Maderer: So when you're working with a business owner going back a little bit you talked earlier about the time money idea of how, and I think for a lot of us in small business all of those things that you just mentioned are so important, accountability having somebody else that's outside of the not in the forest that can help us see things and all of that.

[00:18:43] I do think a lot of business owners still have at some level that goal of, Hey, I need to get more done. I'm only one person I've only got a team of so many people, how can we magnify the results we're getting and not necessarily just make more [00:19:00] money, but even magnify the results we're getting and yet not have 9, 000 hours a week that kind of, how do I do it without Killing myself.

[00:19:11] How do you think about that idea of managing more results with less effort?

[00:19:20] Josh Fonger: Yeah. Great. Great question. And it's a problem that everyone has because everyone is at a point where they have maxed out on their time. Because you're already using all of it. And for a lot of people, they're also maxed out on their money.

[00:19:34] They're there. They feel like they've capped out on their time. They've kept it on their money and they're stuck. And I think that's, that is the reason why you bring on someone from the outside. Cause they're able to dissect. That's what I do is analyze what you are doing with your time, what you are doing with your money, what you are doing with your resources, which might be your people or your warehouse, your inventory your website, the different assets that you have that are under your control or your [00:20:00] stewardship in your business.

[00:20:01] And as an outsider, what I'm going to do is give you the structured plan to leverage, to expand, to multiply those things. And it's not one thing, right? It's usually a dozen things and what owners of companies don't need to hear is a dozen new ideas. Cause if they go online, they can hear a thousand new ideas.

[00:20:24] What they need to hear is. The right idea, they need to apply. Today followed by the next idea they need to apply tomorrow. And if they can have the right person to give them the sequence of ideas that are going to actually make a difference I think that's what matters. And it's the most common thing is people are out of time and they're out of money.

[00:20:47] And step one, I'll just say typically has to do with. cutting waste out. And I try to cut the waste out of people's time and money first so that they can have [00:21:00] some perspective so they can have a little bit of a cushion. And then we start to build things back into those free time spaces that are going to propel their business forward.

[00:21:14] Scott Maderer: When you are working with somebody what, some of the resistance that people have to actually making the changes that they need to, and how do you help them overcome those?

[00:21:28] Josh Fonger: Yeah. The resistance tends to be in habits, right? So habit form is hugely powerful. And so again I will go through an exercise.

[00:21:40] We'll map out every single thing that they do as well as ideally how they do what they do. And once they realize the inefficiencies, the ineffectiveness, the opportunity for delegation, the opportunity for automation, for technology That's when they start to have an aha moment that, Oh, like the way I've been doing [00:22:00] this for all these years is not effective or not efficient.

[00:22:03] I had a client once where they have been doing their, we'll call it their employee turnover. So they had two lines of staff. They had their 20 employees in the machines. First shift, they had another 20 employees in the machines. Second shift, this is a a factory in Michigan small parts machine shop.

[00:22:23] And for them, they had a way they were doing their work. And he said, Hey Josh, I'm already part of this pretty efficiently. So let's just take a look. Let's just look at how you do one aspect of your business. And it was this transfer and realize that the transfer employees from first shift to second shift took 50 minutes of overlapping time.

[00:22:42] We analyzed it, wrote down a new way to do it, and then it took five minutes of time. So they saved 10 minutes per employee per day, every day of the week, which was a hundred thousand dollars of new realized profit to the business. Immediately. And he's wow, I wish I would've done this 20 years ago, [00:23:00] right?

[00:23:00] There was opportunity there. And again, he thought that he had already achieved the best way to do something because he'd done it so long. And I think that old habits are like that. And again this is one of the big benefits of having an outsider saying, Hey, there is a better way to do this.

[00:23:16] I've seen it done before. Let me. Just poke in here. And then, of course, the accountability comes in that we're actually writing down the new way, holding someone accountable to that new habit, measuring to make sure it does happen. And the thing is, once people find there's a better way to do something, and they've applied it for a few weeks, It usually sticks because it's a better way.

[00:23:39] And that comes back to getting people's vision on excellence and doing things a better way and transforming a culture of a company, where it's not just the way you want to do it, or the way I want to do it. It's what is the best way. And, I think it ties back to stewardship is that it's not about how everyone else is doing it or how I [00:24:00] want to do it.

[00:24:00] It's about a perfect God and how would a perfect God want it done. And that really drives people towards a higher level of excellence than they would just have on their own.

[00:24:12] Scott Maderer: I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests. But before I go there and ask those questions, is there anything else about the work that you do that you'd like to share?

[00:24:22] Josh Fonger: The thing that I would like to share. And this is a repeat of something I already said, but Proverbs 12, 15 says the way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. And I'm just not saying that to everybody, but me, I'm saying that to myself too, is that it is wise to get wise counsel and it is very easy.

[00:24:47] I do it. Everyone does it to think, Hey. I have all wisdom and I have decided this and it's right. And the natural thing is to think basically everything you do is right in your own eyes. And it's [00:25:00] it's smart to get people to help you along the way. And so I think that would be the one thing is a biblically, what is the church?

[00:25:07] Is people who are going to love you by encouraging you and teaching you and rebuking you and exhorting you and sharing with you and guiding you. And that's in the Holy spirit and that's that people really understand in the church. So to speak on Sunday mornings or in small groups, if you're spending 40 plus hours a week working, then that is a similar environment.

[00:25:31] That's probably more time where you should be being the church at work, right? Having that integrated, that whole church philosophy of. Encouraging and teaching and rebuking that needs to be integrated into the rest of your life, into your business and make sure that you are not just talking about how do I raise my kids and how do I be a better spouse, which is really important, but your work.

[00:25:57] too. And make sure you have advisors for that [00:26:00] as well. And a team for that as well. And you're focused on that as well, because that is a big part of what you're doing on this planet. And it's a big part of how you're going to be ultimately judged.

[00:26:14] Scott Maderer: So my brand is Inspired Stewardship, and I run things through that lens of stewardship. And you've mentioned the word stewardship a couple of times, but I've discovered that's one of those words that means different things to different people. So can you share, what does the word stewardship mean to you and how has it impacted you?

[00:26:34] Josh Fonger: Yeah. So for me, it means that everything in the world is God's my life, my breath, my everything, which includes my business. And so if that's the case and I've not done this perfectly and nor is anyway, but want to, is that instead of looking around to how other people do their life or looking to how.

[00:26:58] I want to do my life. [00:27:00] It's looking to God's perfect standard of how life is supposed to be. And I think that is, that's going to be the key thing that stewardship has meant for me is say, Hey, you have a higher calling, not just what, Do you want your higher calling? And therefore God also has promises about that, right?

[00:27:22] So he has promised that if you seek his kingdom first, all things will be added, right? He's promised that he will be with us, right? So I think that's one of the benefits of being a steward, as opposed to being an owner. If you're an owner, You're the top dog and it's all on your shoulders.

[00:27:40] And so that's all there is. If you're a steward, I actually, someone above you who owns all things and is all loving and is all powerful. And therefore do the best with all you can work hardly under the Lord, but you also have an [00:28:00] advocate who is God, right? So I think it really gives a lot of peace for leaders and for owners to know that, Hey I'm not just a steward, but I'm a steward of God, ambassador of God.

[00:28:12] And He's there with me every day. And I think that is a powerful way to, to go about life because it gives you peace. It reduces fear and it gives you confidence and courage as you go about his work, empowered by his spirit.

[00:28:31] Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a moment that I invented this magic machine. And with this machine, I could pluck you from where you are today and transport you into the future. Maybe 150, maybe 250 years. But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life.

[00:28:52] All of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left. What impact do you hope you've left in the world? [00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Josh Fonger: I would say more disciples of Christ and the two frameworks that I'm focused in on is one by family. With our wife, with my kids, with their future kids, grandkids, really just and anyone that we interact with to be disciples who produce disciples multiplying, that would be the first thing.

[00:29:22] That's why my company is called fourth soil. Ventures, right? The fourth soil in the four soils parable and. The other big Avenue is the the 40 plus hours a week are spent working. I want the same kind of impact as companies, top lines grow, they're going to be impacting more people at bottom lines, similarly, and they're finished lines.

[00:29:46] And so if I can do that, it should be a multiplication effect, right? That's the way the gospel spreads. It's not necessarily one to one, it's one to many. And I [00:30:00] don't want to put a cap on what that's going to look like. I just want it to be, I just want it to grow. I want it to be healthy.

[00:30:07] It's going to be pruned along the way, but the more thousands of people impacted that way, the happier I'll be.

[00:30:17] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next? What's on the roadmap as you continue on this journey?

[00:30:22] Josh Fonger: More of the same. Yeah. I love what I'm doing. I love working with my clients. I just want to do more of the same, right?

[00:30:30] So like you stewarding my time, town and treasures and helping my clients grow their top lines, the bottom lines and finish lines and doing it all for God's glory. And so I think that's. If I can do the rest of my life, I'll be very happy. But I also know based on experience that God has plans I don't know about, and so I'm just taking care of today and that he has a great future just for [00:31:00] for all believers.

[00:31:00] And so trusting that and being willing being a willing vessel for him. And so I don't want to cap my future, but that's as far as my eyes can see right now.

[00:31:12] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Josh Fonger over at. 4thsoilventures. com, and that's the number 4thsoilventures. com. Of course, I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well.

[00:31:26] Josh, is there anything else you'd like? So

[00:31:28] Josh Fonger: if you are a Christian man and you own a small business and you're looking for a business coach to help you grow, I'd be happy to talk with you about your current challenges, your future goals. And see if it'd be right for us to work together.

[00:31:50] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the inspired stewardship podcast as a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and [00:32:00] passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspired stewardship.

[00:32:14] com slash. iTunes rate, all one word, iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review, and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast, so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time, your talent, and your treasures. Develop your influence, and impact the [00:33:00] [00:34:00] world. .