Episode 1426: Interview with Matthew Sanjari About Finding Purpose in Your Pain

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1, 426 of the Inspired Stewardship

[00:00:05] Matthew Sanjari: Podcast. I'm Matthew Sanjari. I challenge you to invest in yourself, invest in others, develop your influence and impact the world by using your time, your talent, and your treasures to live out your calling. Having the ability to find the purpose in your pain is key.

[00:00:21] And one way to be inspired to do that is to listen to this, the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend, Scott Maderer

[00:00:27] I call it the why behind the what, right? The what is, you know, I go to work, you know, the what is how I make my money, what I do with my life, the actions, the goals. But the why, the why I think is oftentimes something that we take for granted. And the why isn't, I want to make a million dollars. It's not, I want to retire at 40, but the why has to be something powerful.

[00:00:57] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the [00:01:00] Inspired Stewardship Podcast. If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:29] In today's podcast interview, I interview Matthew Sanjari. I asked Matthew about his journey from pastor to coach and how a horrible accident triggered it. Matthew also shares how you can find the purpose and whatever pain you have in your life. And I also asked Matthew about how his faith journey affected his life journey.

[00:01:49] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living, assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it [00:02:00] and sign up for getting more information over at inspired stewardship. com inspired living. That's inspired stewardship. com inspired living.

[00:02:12] After a life altering accident derailed his career in life. Matt spent much of the next decade overcoming chronic pain, depression, and a disability to become a serial entrepreneur and transformative figure in the business world. As the founder of Prime Consulting, he leverages over 15 years of business ownership and public speaking experience to empower entrepreneurs and business leaders through coaching and consulting, focusing on pragmatic strategies for scaling businesses and achieving personal growth.

[00:02:45] With a track record of helping brands surpass their limits, An successful exit to his own name, Matthew's holistic approach blends operational strategy with personal development, aiming to elevate clients from day to day operations to executive [00:03:00] roles. He stays true to his motto, build people, build businesses.

[00:03:04] Welcome to the show, Matthew! Hey, thanks for having me, Scott. It's fun to be here. Absolutely. So I shared a little bit in the intro about some of your journey and touched on a little bit, but can you expand on and share a little bit more about your journey and what brought you to the point of doing the business that you're doing today, living the life that you're living today?

[00:03:30] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah. For me, I think a pivotal moment in my story is in 2012 I got into, a horrific car accident. And at the time I was working a nine to five. I just helped plant a church a few years earlier. And so by all accounts, life just felt really good. I was in a good spot. Things were progressing well, excited for some of my career prospects, doing public speaking and a variety of things.

[00:03:55] And, this accident was a real pivot moment for [00:04:00] me. The chronic pain, the depression, the cluster headaches that came from this horrific traumatic accident really left me in a place where I had no choice but to go off and venture into my own. I basically said no, one's going to hire me.

[00:04:15] I'm unemployable. It doesn't matter what I think my talent is, what I think my skills are, how confident I am. I need to figure this out. And so that put me on the journey of officially of entrepreneurship. I had always been an entrepreneur. And it was in that journey that I built a marketing company that I had for 10 years had a successful exit a year and a half ago parlayed that into some real estate development.

[00:04:38] And it's essentially how I find myself here now working as a business coach and a strategic consultant, helping people reach their full potential and helping them scale their businesses.

[00:04:49] Scott Maderer: So backing up a little bit before the accident what were you doing or what did you think?

[00:04:56] What did you think you were going to be when you grew up? [00:05:00] And I understand you weren't a little kid, but I tell people, I've been at 70. I think people should still be asking themselves, what do you want to be when you grow up? What, what would, what path did you think you were on before the accident?

[00:05:12] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah. Listen, Scott, full disclosure. I thought I'd be an athlete and then I stopped growing in about grade five, so I grew pretty good, but no we had planted a church a few years earlier and. I'd hopped into the workforce and I had a great job that I was flying across North America, presenting scanners and different hardware products and just being able to mingle with people and do some public speaking.

[00:05:35] So I thought to myself, Hey, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to climb the corporate ladder. I'm going to, I'm going to do that. Hopefully get into a position where I can really help develop people, which is something I always loved. And really buy myself some time as the church grew so that I could transition fully onto staff and.

[00:05:51] And really do what I love best, which was leadership development, working with people, seeing people reach their full potential and in a way [00:06:00] that felt like after the accident that all came crashing down and everything just shifted and I had to get creative with how I was going to live.

[00:06:10] Scott Maderer: And so then in between, after the accident, you started a marketing business. So where did that idea come from in turn, or that started before the accident and you just kept doing it?

[00:06:23] Matthew Sanjari: No. So again I was working I had a great job. The accident happened. And then I went through this like really weird period over the next year where basically the injuries that I sustained a lot of the trauma, the depression, the headaches, all of that started to get significantly worse.

[00:06:40] And a lot of those things I actually still struggle with today. A lot of them have not left. 12 years later. And so I found myself in a spot where I was hiding out in bathrooms. I was lying on the floor. I was calling in sick to work. And so I left my job and I just lay on my parents floor for months at a [00:07:00] time grieving my life, right?

[00:07:02] Hey, all this potential I felt like I had things, all my ducks lined up in a row and everything was shifting. And an old friend of mine basically gave me a call he said, Hey I work for this company that installs pools and they've been a pretty prestigious company. I know you're good with computers.

[00:07:20] Can you come help out? And I said, sure. I jumped at it. I was desperate. I was like anything to make some money. And I'd somehow walked out of that. that pool shop that day with a marketing client. I didn't go to school for marketing. I liked it, didn't know anything about it, but I just started talking to the business owner and he had a problem.

[00:07:39] And I said, you know what? I think we can figure that out. And he said, sure, I'll give you the contract. And I took that money, I invested it into myself, and next thing you know, I had a business. And that was my first official, full fledged, not a side hustle, not a side thing, business. And that's how I started the marketing company.

[00:07:58] Scott Maderer: It wasn't [00:08:00] that you had a dream of being a marketer, or you felt that was the thing. It was all of a, I'm not going to say accident, because I don't think there are really accidents in the world, but it was one of those events where it's no, this came up. in your life and you started going that direction.

[00:08:17] What about the marketing? Did you connect to and what about the marketing? Maybe did you go, this isn't really what I want to do with the rest of my life.

[00:08:28] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah. I've all, I marketing is always stuck at I'm a business guy. I love business and I love leadership development.

[00:08:34] So obviously marketing is a part of that. And I dabbled a little bit in it as we started the church and things like that, but I think You know, when he was conveying that something that I love doing and I've come to realize years later is I love working with business owners, entrepreneurs, and anybody that's high performing when they have a problem being able to say let's zoom out and let's let's abandon the King James and let's talk in plain [00:09:00] English here and let's figure this out together.

[00:09:03] And I think that day, that's really what I was doing. And I've been on this journey now. a while and enough time to know that at the end of the day, whether it was pastoring, marketing, real estate, or my current iteration, all of those were just skins on the outside, the window dressing, if you will, for what I felt like I was supposed to be doing.

[00:09:25] And that's, again, working with people, seeing them come to the full realization of their potential and walking into everything they have on their lives. Perfect.

[00:09:34] Scott Maderer: Yeah. And that's what I was trying to draw out is it's not that the marketing ended up being a distraction or a path off. It actually was a piece of what your ultimate direction was.

[00:09:46] It was just a particular expression of it. I call them assignments. We may have a role or an assignment but within that assignment, there's probably parts that are in alignment with our calling. And then there are other parts that [00:10:00] maybe aren't being, and I call it putting that puzzle together of constantly trying to find more pieces that are in alignment and getting rid of pieces that aren't and you, and it evolves over time.

[00:10:10] It's not like most of us don't come into our very first thing and go, This is it. I have arrived. This is my calling. It is perfect. Everything is wonderful. You

[00:10:19] Matthew Sanjari: know, that doesn't usually happen, right? No, it's so true. And I love how you framed it because I can't tell you how many conversations I have with people that go I'm unhappy about this and my job, or I don't like where I'm at in this position or whatever.

[00:10:32] And. To me, I love that term assignment because at the end of the day, like where you are is probably very purposeful and you can choose to go through that season of your life by default and just I'm going to complain. I'm just going to go through the motions or you can go through it by design where you say, look, I don't love everything about this, but there's gotta be something here.

[00:10:54] That's going to position me for the next move or the next season. What can I learn? What can I take? [00:11:00] What can I optimize in my life? Because when I look back, man, that set me on this foundation and taught me so many life lessons and business lessons that serve me in real estate, is serving me now, and is serving my clients, because otherwise I would just be spouting theories.

[00:11:17] Instead, I can actually say, hey, no, you know what? Those things I didn't like. I had to do them for a reason and I leveraged them and position them for a reason.

[00:11:27] Scott Maderer: We'll talk some more about, about what you're doing now in a minute, but before we go there, I wanted to draw one more thing out.

[00:11:33] So you mentioned you were a pastor of a church. Talk a little bit about how your faith journey paralleled as you before, and then as you went through the accident and then to where you are today, how's your faith journey? faith journey affected your life journey? And how has your life experience affected your faith journey?

[00:11:51] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah, man, that's such a great question. I think pre accident, it's funny, my perspective has, it hasn't shifted, but I've gone through the ebbs and flows of [00:12:00] life, if I can say it that way. I think pre accident I was fairly young ambitious and honestly, I just felt like with faith, I was like, man, okay, everywhere I go, I want to bring my faith.

[00:12:13] into the equation, right? God, I believe that I'm here for a reason. I trust you and you're going to work it out. And then the accident happens and I still believe those things, but I find myself in a much more questioning state, right? And I'm sitting here and I'm like there's a little bit of anger, there's some bitterness, resentment, whatever.

[00:12:34] And I'm sitting here this can't be the plan. The plan cannot be for me to sit here or lie down on the floor and be unsure if I'm going to lose the very clients that I just got. And it's crazy. I tell people often, and I use this and with some of my clients I came to a point where I realized even today, my pain has not changed, but my perspective has.

[00:12:58] And that's where I think [00:13:00] that my faith has been pivotal, especially looking back in hindsight to say, man I can't change what's happened to me. I was not in control of so many things that happened, but because of my faith, I get to shape my perspective and I get to choose how I respond to those things.

[00:13:19] And so I I just think of the title even of the podcast and inspired stewardship and to me, the tie in there is I don't know why this happened. I don't know why I'm here, even or how I got here, but how I steward that. That's up to me. I get to make that decision.

[00:13:39] Scott Maderer: So when you're actually working with a client now, let's talk a little bit about the work that you do.

[00:13:47] You've obviously had experiences. You were just talking about with trying to find that purpose from the pain, that purpose from the bad things that are happening or the frustrating things or the things that you're not even [00:14:00] sure at the time. there's any good in it and yet looking back, you find those moments.

[00:14:06] So when you're working with that client, that's in that position, we're like, you were talking about earlier that they're hating everything about their job maybe or relationships or whatever it is, there's those areas in their life that are really the burr under the saddle, right?

[00:14:22] The discomfort, where do you start with them on talking about it to help them begin to find that purpose behind it?

[00:14:31] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah, there's always two questions I feel that I position one after another that I think are really good for us to get a, just a real clear picture of where someone sits. And the first one that I always try and establish is, I call it the why behind the what.

[00:14:46] Alright, the what is I go to work the what is how I make my money, what I do with my life, the actions, but the why. The why I think is oftentimes something that we take for granted and the why [00:15:00] isn't I want to make a million dollars. It's not I want to retire at 40. The why has to be something powerful because it's the why that sustains you through these hard times.

[00:15:11] And so it's funny I start talking to people and I can see, I've learned this over time, as I have this conversation, I can see people check out a little bit like, oh, it's a bit airy fairy. It's a bit motivational. But the reality is for me, and I've seen it across so many people's lives.

[00:15:28] My why to keep going was big enough that I kept going, right? I love to use the example in 2016, we're about four years post accident. I'm not doing well, pain, the whole bit. My weight had ballooned. I was up to 315 pounds. I could barely go up a set of stairs without catching my breath. And I basically came to a position where I said, look, I can't control the accident.

[00:15:55] I can't change that. I hit two horses and that changed my life. I'm like, [00:16:00] but I wonder if I can take responsibility and control my health. I wonder if I can get some of my health in line. And that became my why. And I started to obsess and pour myself into it and I ended up losing 150 pounds.

[00:16:15] I basically lost another human. That's how I like to put it. And I tell people everybody gets impressed that's so amazing. And I'm like, actually, I ended up gaining 30 or 40 of that back. I ended up losing it again. But the reason why I gained it and I tell the story is because my why at the moment actually wasn't health.

[00:16:34] It was to lose weight. And so when I got to that place, guess what? Once I had accomplished my why, my what started to slip. And so this time around, I made sure that my why was not just goal based. It was, I want to live a healthy life for my family, for my friends and before God, because it's honoring to him.

[00:16:54] And now I've been, now I'm on a journey where my health and my weight have been fantastic because my [00:17:00] why is so much bigger than just this one number, this one idea, and so I think in working with people, helping them determine their why. Life doesn't get, it doesn't necessarily get easier. Hard things don't stop coming and change doesn't stop coming.

[00:17:14] But what we can do is we can actually go back for a why and see if it's big enough to sustain us through those things.

[00:17:21] Scott Maderer: Yeah. We, I talk a lot to folks about the difference between a goal and a why, and I use the exact same language and what I point out to them and your example is a great example of it is a goal has a beginning, a middle and an end.

[00:17:35] I want to lose weight. I've begun to lose weight. I'm losing weight. I have lost the way there's a beginning, there's a middle, there's an end where that, why I want to sustain my health for my family and to honor God. And for myself, that doesn't have a beginning, a middle or an end it's just, it lasts beyond the goal.

[00:17:55] That's a perfect analogy. I love that. What about the, that person [00:18:00] that's really hurting and. is doubting that the pain that they're in the moment, that assignment that they're in the moment we both talked about, yeah, there is a purpose in it, but they're saying, no, there isn't there, there can't be a purpose to this when they push back on finding that purpose what do you dig into with them there?

[00:18:21] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah I think for me, we always start at empathy, right? The reality is that we're human, right? Like I, I went through things, I mean I still go through things, but I went through things in that period post accident, where I was so upset and bitter because I was so consumed by the reality of my situation.

[00:18:39] And so I think one of the things especially post empathy is just getting people to live in reality and I really help my clients to understand, look, you don't have to have hit two horses to go through pain, right? You don't have to have your life turned upside down and depression, all this to experience change.

[00:18:58] Pain and change are constant in our lives. [00:19:00] But if you're going to go through it anyways, man, you might as well find purpose in it, right? If I'm going to go through a time of my life, that's going to suck. it better bring me something later. I might as well find the lesson in this, find the purpose in my pain and see to it that when this season passes, because it will pass, this phase will pass that when it passes, that I can use this to either help and serve people or help and serve my future purpose.

[00:19:33] Scott Maderer: When you work with a lot of folks that are business owners or are running their own small business, and I think a lot of times in those positions, I know I'll speak for myself as a small business owner myself, that constant. juggling act that we do between the 5, 172, 000 things that we have to do.

[00:19:56] That there, there's always another thing. And even if you've [00:20:00] got a business where you got 50 employees, doesn't matter. You're the owner. There's always another thing that's on your plate. How do you help them find the time or the energy to begin To be able to pull out and look at the bigger picture.

[00:20:18] Matthew Sanjari: Great question. So I had alluded a few questions ago, you asked that there's two questions I ask. And the second question is always directed to this. I always love asking people and I it goes two ways. Either people love that. Ask the question or they want to fight me immediately on the spot.

[00:20:35] But I love asking the question God forbid, if something were to happen to you. And you got knocked out of your business for a month. What would your business or your organization or your church look like? And without fail, it's almost the same response. People just awkwardly smile, maybe a chuckle.

[00:20:54] There's a moment of reflection and then almost everyone says, Yeah, it would probably be decimated. I [00:21:00] probably wouldn't have much left. And to that I say, then you don't have a business, you have a job. Because when you stop showing up to your job, you don't get paid. So let's build you a business. And so it's this idea that man.

[00:21:14] If I can't see the trees from the weeds, like I'm stuck in it. I'm caught in it. I'm drowning. So many people say, Matt, the day to day consumes me. How can I even get ahead? Let's start with this idea that we right now you're an operator. I need you to become an owner. And so that's where we start to go through the process.

[00:21:34] And I find this so beneficial for business owners, entrepreneurs, even high performers, right? This idea that we're going to start with what's the most leveraging pieces in your life and your business. And anything that's not, we're going to start to shift it off. And I've, as I'm sure you've heard over your life, but I've heard all of the excuses, right?

[00:21:53] I don't have the money. I don't have the time. I don't have the resources. And the truth is you actually only [00:22:00] need one of those. We can figure out solutions. And I often try and summarize it in a, just a distinct three, three step process. What can we automate? Okay. What can we delegate and what can we eliminate?

[00:22:14] And if we just work through those things, it's actually crazy. The results that we've seen where business owners can take back some of their time, some of their sanity, and we get them rolling on things that actually benefit them and their business. Absolutely.

[00:22:33] Scott Maderer: So I've got a few questions that I like to ask all of my guests, but before I go there, is there anything else about the work that you do or the journey that you've been on that you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:22:45] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah, I think for me, it really does come back to finding that why behind the what. For me, I absolutely love what I get to do. This iteration of life has been so thrilling because There's fulfillment [00:23:00] in working with my clients. It's very relational. It's not a transaction. I can't speak for other business coaches or business consultants, but this idea that I get to go on a journey with people and I see it affect their health, their bottom line, their business.

[00:23:15] When I'm working with a client right now it's a health group. And I'm not just working with the owners. I'm working with the operators. Cause that's something I do. And to see the development in people where they're stepping out of their comfort zones, they're taking on ownership and responsibility.

[00:23:31] It's not just making the employees happy. It's the owner seeing this, the owner saying the culture of our business is changing. And by all accounts, it's not like this was a great business. It was a functional business. It's just really cool to see people on their journey, see the growth, see it translate to tangible numbers and impact and see, and that just brings me tremendous fulfillment.

[00:23:55] So I'm just really enjoying

[00:23:56] Scott Maderer: that. So I run things through the brand [00:24:00] Inspired Stewardship and that stewardship is one of those words that I've learned over the years has a lot of different meanings for a lot of different people. So when you hear the word stewardship, what does that word mean to you and what impact has it had on you?

[00:24:16] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah, man, that's a really good question. I think, and again, I may upset some people may want to fight me when I say this, I learned really early on that no one is self made. No one, right? You may have grown something, but no one is self made. We are all the byproduct of families, of mentors, of leaders, of other people in the industry, trailblazers.

[00:24:41] And so I look at my whole life, my life, my business, everything that, that kind of composes that as I've actually been given something and I've And it's my job to steward it, right? I've been given these experiences. I've been given this knowledge. I've been given these clients, right? [00:25:00] Man, you want to talk about stewardship.

[00:25:01] The clients that I have. That I love, man, I've actually been entrusted with this. And so it's my job to steward these relationships. And when I think of stewardship, I think of, okay I always want to leave something better than when it came into my possession. And so to me, stewardship is really about, we're all byproducts of something else.

[00:25:27] And so we get an opportunity to steward that thing, whether it's our business, our ministry, our lives, our families. And how do we steward those well so that they are left and set up in better places so that their floor is actually our ceiling? That's what stewardship looks like to me.

[00:25:47] Scott Maderer: Awesome. I love that idea of leaving it where somebody, not only building off of other people, but then also leaving something behind that others can build from.

[00:25:56] I that both of those pieces, I like that analogy. [00:26:00] So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a moment that I invented this magical machine. And with this machine, I could pluck you from where you sit today. And I could transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years.

[00:26:16] But through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life and see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all of the impacts you've left behind. What impact do you hope you've left in the world? That's a good question,

[00:26:31] Matthew Sanjari: man. Honestly, I think it's going to tie into that last question.

[00:26:36] I really hope that. Whether it's at my funeral or in the zoom back that people would say, obviously, you know that there's some standout things like hopefully Matt was generous he treated people well, but I hope that people look back in my legacy is one that he always left people better than he found them that no matter how it looked like no matter how hard it was no matter [00:27:00] how much work it involved.

[00:27:01] No matter if it even didn't make financial or logical sense. Sometimes he always tried to leave people better than when he first encountered them, whether it be people, organizations, businesses, all of them.

[00:27:15] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next? What's on the roadmap as you continue through the year?

[00:27:21] Matthew Sanjari: Yeah. We're about a year and a half in now.

[00:27:23] So for me it's really hoping to onboard some more clients. Get some more people involved, but I've just hopped into doing some podcasts and trying to impact and serve some people and I'm hoping to delve into some public speaking as well again in the next little bit. And then I'm hoping in 2025 that we'll start to get into some cool, different ways to serve.

[00:27:45] High performers and business owners, whether that be online communities or whether that be we're also potentially looking at some business intelligence, some digital dashboards, cause I'm a bit of a data freak though.

[00:27:59] Scott Maderer: I [00:28:00] understand. So you can find out more about Matthew Sanjari over on his website, consultingbyprime.

[00:28:07] com. And of course I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well. Matthew, anything else you'd like to share with the listener?

[00:28:14] Matthew Sanjari: No, I would just love to throw out there that if they actually go to the website slash podcast I've got a free gift for everyone that's listening consultingbyprime.

[00:28:22] com slash podcast I just want to throw something in their hands there as well. But no, honestly, it's just been really good I feel like we were just sitting on your couch. It felt like just such an easy conversation, but Yeah, I think if I were to summarize everything, man, I hope that people rediscover their why and really just get back to that because I know for me as I sit here with a few businesses under my belt and the kind of what I'm doing right now, when people discover their why, it's so powerful what they realize about themselves, but their purpose and what they're capable of.

[00:28:57] And so that will just blow the ceiling off of [00:29:00] whatever it is that you're already doing or working on. Yeah.

[00:29:09] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor. Go over to inspiredstewardship.

[00:29:32] com. iTunes rate, all one word, iTunes rate. It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so that you can get every episode as it comes out in your feed. Until next time, invest your time. Your talent and your treasures develop your influence and impact [00:30:00] the world.