Episode 1368: Interview with Tanya Gioia about Helping Families Overcome Addiction

[00:00:00] Scott Maderer: Thanks for joining us on episode 1, 368 of the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:00:08] Tanya Gioia: I'm Tanya Gioia, and I challenge you to invest yourself. Others and develop your influence and impact in the world by using your time, talent, and treasures, and living out your calling. Having the ability to recover as I well know and have a loving addiction, free life is key.

[00:00:31] One way to be inspired to do that is to listen. Listen carefully to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott Maderer.

[00:00:49] I really had to work around the idolatry of my children was that I'm doing all this for my kids. I'm fixing this for my kids. I'm fixing you, husband, for my kids. So [00:01:00] my kids will have a daddy, you know, I will make this work. So as long as I was putting them before God, I was still playing God.

[00:01:10] Scott Maderer: Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.

[00:01:15] If you truly desire to become the person who God wants you to be, then you must learn to use your time, your talent, and your treasures for your true calling. In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast, you will learn to invest in yourself, invest in others, and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.

[00:01:43] In today's podcast interview, I interview Tanya Joya. I asked Tanya about her journey to discovering that the route from codependency to recovery is a family affair. I also asked Tanya to share with you how her faith deeply affected her during this discovery. [00:02:00] And Tanya also shares how you can really support someone around you who's dealing with addiction.

[00:02:08] I've got a new book coming out called Inspired Living. Assembling the puzzle of your call by mastering your time, your talent, and your treasures. You can find out more about it and sign up for getting more information over at InspiredStewardship. com, Inspired Living. That's InspiredStewardship. com, Inspired Living.

[00:02:31] Tanya knows that for every addict, five people are impacted. Working with women heals a generation. She's been through all the challenges. that you're familiar with. Striving for a career to make her whole, chasing a man to fulfill her, jumping unhealed into a second marriage, managing new babies, an addicted husband, as well as her own codependency, running her own business, thinking enough money would finally save her.

[00:02:56] Finally, Tanya decided she deserved more in her life from her [00:03:00] life. She set out to learn everything, AA, Al Anon, Celebrate Recovery, Deep Therapy, EMDR, and decided to help heal others who share similar challenges by getting her professional coaching certification. Tanya works with women who want to finally heal their marriage and family while supporting their husbands through recovery from addiction.

[00:03:21] She uses her unique Dancing with Joy process to help them become the woman her husband cherishes and the mother that places God and love first to create a truly connected, loving, and supportive family. Welcome to the show, Tanya!

[00:03:36] Tanya Gioia: Thank you, Scott. I'm happy to be here.

[00:03:38] Scott Maderer: Absolutely. It's great to have you here.

[00:03:42] I shared your intro and my running joke on intros it's like sharing Instagram photos. It's always the highlights of our life as opposed to the real journey and the real story, right? That's what we all want in the intro, but tell us a little bit more about your journey and [00:04:00] what brought you to work on the work that you're doing now and putting out into

[00:04:05] Tanya Gioia: the world.

[00:04:07] A very personal journey, which I found has been my whole life is if it doesn't affect me, I'm probably not paying enough attention to do work around it. I I married a beautiful, wonderful man. He had a substance use issue and I thought it was cleared up before we got married, came to learn after the second child, it had begun to degenerate even more and it was becoming more and more public because.

[00:04:40] As the world was shifting, we live in Colorado, one of the first states to come up with the medical marijuana cart. So that way it was allowing more publicity around that. And I went, wait a minute, I've got two kids now, a house. 400 chickens, [00:05:00] a dog, two dogs at the time and a couple of horses. And I went, Oh, I am confused on how we got here.

[00:05:08] What's going on? This is not my world. I would be

[00:05:12] Scott Maderer: confused having 400 chickens too. That, that

[00:05:17] Tanya Gioia: was really interesting how we got there too. And I began to dive into what what does substance use. Disorder look like that's what we call it now. Back then we called it addiction. What does that look like?

[00:05:33] How does that affect us? Is this something that can be solved in just a couple of days?

[00:05:38] Scott Maderer: And I'm like, okay, you got a quick answer.

[00:05:45] Tanya Gioia: No, and this will all be over and we'll just handle it. It'll be fine. And that is. Tanya's big fault line. I can handle it. I will take care of [00:06:00] it. I won't make it happen. And if any of your audience has ever been in that situation, you know that is a huge, it's a huge fall down because then you are playing God for everybody instead of letting God Play, play God, instead of letting God be God.

[00:06:19] So I got into this work for very personal reasons, trying to save myself, save my family. My guys were three and five when it really became a huge issue. And I began to learn that I also was very sick. And began to work through that.

[00:06:39] Scott Maderer: What did you mean by you were very sick?

[00:06:42] Tanya Gioia: So I don't speak for everyone, but I can tell you for me, I didn't get into a relationship with a long term addict because I was well.

[00:06:54] Gotcha. I was in a point where, as I began to look at my own [00:07:00] history, I had gone through, I had gone through a divorce previously. I had gone through relationships. I was looking for somebody to save me, but I was looking for somebody to save me backwards because I wanted to have full control. It's really hard to save somebody who says no, I'm not drowning.

[00:07:18] Don't send me a life raft or anything like that. So I

[00:07:22] Scott Maderer: got this. I got this really. I've got

[00:07:23] Tanya Gioia: this, but I need you to save me.

[00:07:28] Scott Maderer: No contradiction in that messaging it whatsoever. Yeah. No.

[00:07:32] Tanya Gioia: And relationship addiction, love addiction, those types of things would have, if you, if I'm going to give myself a label which I don't, I say, I struggle with these things.

[00:07:44] So instead of looking at the source, instead of looking at God, instead of looking for where this could really be filled, because Scott, you and I know every human is going to fail you at some point. Mother Teresa failed somewhere. And she's probably our most [00:08:00] perfect example right there. So I was looking for resources.

[00:08:03] Now, I wasn't in the broader term of addiction. I wasn't looking for substance, but I used humans. Sure. Hear this. I used humans like substances. In fact, if he needed to go on a trip or one at one point while we were still dating, he went back to Connecticut. I was still in Colorado. It was like a physical withdrawal.

[00:08:26] I'm curling up in a Ball, I'm calling all the time. I'm eating my other choice and solving this so I was in then by the time his addiction was getting higher and degenerating. Mine was too. We are like cats and dogs. I have. A pretty awful scenario where quite honestly, Scott if I had the physical to ability to kill him, I would have done it.

[00:08:56] Luckily. I had a, I have a very gentle husband. [00:09:00] He very gently set me down on the ground and walked away because I was physically on him. That is what I'm talking about how heart sick, how addiction sick I was at that point. So you can imagine my poor three and five year old were not getting the parents they deserved.

[00:09:22] Scott Maderer: You mentioned in there a little bit about the... putting quote unquote, putting ourself in God's place. How has this journey and this experience affected your faith? And then the other direction, how has your faith affected the way you got through the experience?

[00:09:41] Tanya Gioia: So I really appreciate this question.

[00:09:43] I was thinking about it the other day and. It really was, God, I got this. I'll get this figured out. We're going to show up at AA Al Anon. We're going to be fine. Everything's going to be all right. It wasn't. It absolutely wasn't. And this is [00:10:00] where, this is where God in the addiction worlds, there's this term called raising the bottom and that's letting people suffer their own consequences instead of covering for them or doing whatever.

[00:10:12] So God began raising the bottom for me in the sense that Paychecks weren't coming home and that the yelling and the screaming was getting so strong that my, my sons were really being affected by it and it was causing a whole bunch of stress in the family and then I had the incident where I'm getting ready to go to work.

[00:10:38] We were headed out to the car. He hadn't brought home milk. Like I asked him to, I physically attacked him. He did set me aside. I did go on to work called my sponsor and she said, okay, let's get real clear. Your children need a person at home. If you had killed him, you would have gone to [00:11:00] prison and your children would have had nobody.

[00:11:02] And that, that just God, that was God's two by four. She was a strong believer. She was 20. 25 years married. She had what I wanted. Her husband had recovered 25 years married, all that. And I went, Tanya, you are really going to put the people you love the most. In jeopardy. If you continue this behavior.

[00:11:28] And so that was a huge God moment for me. It didn't solve everything, but it was very clear that I had to make some changes. And so at that point, I started getting more serious about walking and talking with God. I was, it was of all things. I was reading the purpose driven life. Outta Saddleback Church.

[00:11:50] I was reading my Bible. I said to my sponsor, I've gotta do a fourth step which is getting out all the things inside. And then the [00:12:00] fifth step is telling somebody all these things inside and getting real honest about what's going on. And I had to tell my parents, not that my parents were going to fix it, but I thought if this gets really bad, I was earning minimal income.

[00:12:17] If this gets really bad, I'm going to need some shelter somewhere. So getting that honest with all of those people changed how I saw myself. It changed how I saw God and my sponsor did one thing for me that changed Really my whole world. After I had poured out all these horrible things that I had done to other people, my responsibilities, my things in this relationship, after I had called her about that incident where I tried to kill my husband she said, she looked at me in the eye and she said, I still love you.

[00:12:56] You are lovable and worthy. [00:13:00] And it shifted my whole world.

[00:13:09] Scott Maderer: I think too. So a couple of things came to mind as you were talking about that. First off is. How did you come to be in that relationship with the sponsor who was walking with you? In other words, go back a step because you mentioned you reached out to your sponsor and all of that she was a believer and she was walking that way.

[00:13:35] So were you a believer ahead of time and you were seeking out somebody that shared that belief or was it how did that relationship help you in that

[00:13:46] Tanya Gioia: journey? So when you get into an Allen on RNA, a program they highly encourage that you get a sponsor right away. I didn't do that

[00:13:59] Scott Maderer: because [00:14:00] I can handle it.

[00:14:02] Right, Scott.

[00:14:02] Tanya Gioia: I got this. I'm intelligent. I'm capable. I have degrees. I could earn money. I can do all these things. 20 acres out in the middle of nowhere in Colorado in the snow. Right before Christmas with 400 chickens, two dogs, two horses, and two kids that just didn't compute in my world, but I had to secure the sponsor before the major incident with my husband.

[00:14:28] Now the major incident with me happened earlier. I had secured the. The sponsor before that couple of years into the program, I was, we were already in program, but a couple of years in the program, I didn't need a sponsor. I can handle it. We were going to fix it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When you go to get a sponsor, the suggestion is look for somebody who has what you want.

[00:14:55] She had a very Christ centered life [00:15:00] was active. We didn't go to the same church, but was active in her church. Her husband had been in recovery probably 10, 15 years by that time. She had two, two children, two adult children who were doing fine. Even though they had been through all this situation before her story was somewhat similar to mine, at least I thought, and I said, I pick you

[00:15:30] Scott Maderer: and then what

[00:15:31] Tanya Gioia: sponsors say, this is so hard to hear what sponsors say is, let me go home and pray about it.

[00:15:40] Let me think about if this is going to work in our schedule. And I will get back with you. So when you've worked off all this courage to go in and ask somebody, you're basically asking them to be your friend.

[00:15:53] Scott Maderer: And it's a pretty big commitment to be a sponsor.

[00:15:58] Tanya Gioia: Huge commitment. [00:16:00] It's a huge commitment

[00:16:01] Scott Maderer: because you've got to be there at two in the morning, whenever there's a breakdown, you've got to be there for that phone call.

[00:16:07] Whenever you're like, I just tried to kill my husband, you've got to be there for that conversation.

[00:16:14] Tanya Gioia: And the, and there are some courtesies around that, but to have them say I'm not sure, let me do this. And she didn't say, I'm not sure she said, and rightly let me go home and pray about it because she wanted to know if she was in alignment, if taking on me was something else and taking on me was a lot.

[00:16:34] I did do those phone calls. I did all those. She's Tony, you have to breathe because I can't understand

[00:16:42] Scott Maderer: what you're saying.

[00:16:48] Tanya Gioia: And she said yes. And so when I did try and kill my husband, and like I said, thankfully he's stronger and a very gentle soul. [00:17:00] She brought that reality to me and we had enough of a relationship that I let her speak into my life. And I think I'm speaking as the child of an alcoholic and grew up in an alcoholic household and had my own.

[00:17:18] Scott Maderer: Experiences with alcohol. But I wanted to circle back to something you said earlier about speaking for yourself, how you had addictive behavior, just not with a substance how do you think that bigger picture of let's step back from substance abuse and just think about that kind of addictive behavior or whatever name whatever label we want to give it.

[00:17:44] How do you think that addictive behavior is that? is bigger than just, in other words, for somebody out there that's hey, I don't have a problem with substance abuse, but if they actually looked at it through a different lens, there's still that [00:18:00] sign of underlying addiction, so to speak. How does, how do you see that operating

[00:18:06] Tanya Gioia: in the world?

[00:18:08] I think there's a couple of different ways to talk about it. So Gabor Monte, who is becoming just bigger and bigger on his theories around addiction, he describes it as something that you are using to move away from pain into pleasure that will eventually become destructive.

[00:18:30] Scott Maderer: And then I would say that's a good

[00:18:32] Tanya Gioia: definition.

[00:18:33] It's a great definition. It's really simple. I would say anything that is keeping you from your purpose, your most committed relationships and the life that you would choose to lead and Is creating destructive patterns. So mine would be similar. I would add idolatry to it. So anything that you're putting before God.

[00:18:59] And for [00:19:00] me, I did a lot after the full break and our separation happened. We're still married, but we did a separation for a while. I really had to work around the idolatry of my children was that I'm doing all this for my kids. I'm fixing this for my kids. I'm fixing you husband for my kids. So my kids will have a daddy I will make this work.

[00:19:23] As long as I was putting them before God, I was still playing God and that it, it is a relationship addiction, not the romantic relationship addiction, but it is still a relationship addiction because if the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, but connection. I kept looking for this connection.

[00:19:47] What I wanted was somebody to tell me, I love you. You're worthy. I will always be with you. Who is capable of that? Who is capable of that all the time? Nobody on this plane. So [00:20:00] it's gotta be God. And then, in Gabbermonte's scenario, and he openly talks about this, his was to classical music! He is going and buying CDs, he's buying CDs he already has, he's supposed to be delivering a baby, and he's buying classical music.

[00:20:15] Anything that takes you away from your God given purpose, and will eventually come to destruction. Shopping, workaholism the relationship idolatry, the Food is a huge one for us, but also this, I, you can, it gets so convoluted. You can do it in a social justice context that I've made this my higher power rather than a true higher power.

[00:20:47] And I'm not discounting that all that is good work. The question is, where are you really filling your tank? And for me, it's got to be with, for me personally, it's [00:21:00] got to be with the Judeo Christian God, the one that's described in the biblical New Testament, Old Testament text. Now, do I think God is big enough to show you other ways to do that?

[00:21:10] Honestly, I do. This is where I am grounding myself because it is what has pulled me out of total destruction and devastation.

[00:21:21] Scott Maderer: Yeah. And yeah I have no problem. And I've talked about it on the show before admitting that I think sometimes the route somebody else takes is not the same route as. the route I've taken, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.

[00:21:33] That just means it's different and again, at the end of the day, I think God is big enough that the labels we put on God are probably not good enough anyway. So I think God's bigger than the labels we put on God. So when you think about, Somebody's hearing this today and they're maybe they're reflecting on either their own situation [00:22:00] or their partners or the the dynamic the two of them have, how.

[00:22:06] Do you see some of the best ways that people can support a partner that's going through it, or even themselves at some level, if maybe they're the one going through it? What are some of the positive steps that they can take to help each other begin to move towards? Some type of recovery.

[00:22:27] Tanya Gioia: Sure.

[00:22:27] And there's so many more now, even in this last 10 years, there's so many more now that are COVID did us a favor. You can drop into a meeting any time of day, anywhere. Any type of meeting. There's all kinds out there. And one of the new movements is based on some work by Robert Myers the craft movement and invitation to change.

[00:22:57] And it is not like the old [00:23:00] model of everything's got to stop. You've got to go to cold Turkey. You've got to go to a 30 day treatment center. The, all of those really can be very devastating to the family methods. One of the first things to do is some awareness. Is really keep a journal of what is actually happening, not what you think is happening, but what is actually happening did the paycheck go in the joint account?

[00:23:32] Did you go to work? Did he go to work? Did you fight six times this week or four times this week? What is really happening? And I encourage people to journal because you're going to start getting your own thoughts out there as well. And I have some great. prompts for all of that. The other piece is to learn about boundaries.

[00:23:53] Now I've even got it on my desk. Oh, this is non video. I won't show it then. Dr. [00:24:00] Henry Cloud and Dr. Townsend have a book that's been out for a long time about boundaries and people always think that boundaries are. And if I make, can I tell a little story? Sure. Absolutely. Okay. So here I am, I got two kids at home.

[00:24:16] I'm out here on 20 acres. I have neighbors, but they are at a distance, right? And my husband's not coming home. He would eventually come home, but I'm calling around the friends. I'm calling over to the bars. I'm looking for him, all those types of things. I'm like, you need to come home. You need to come home.

[00:24:34] And. I have said to him over and over again, can you please come home by 11? I know you work till nine, but can you please get home by 11? I need you in the house. So I know where you are. So all these types of things. So that is what people think a boundary is. Okay. That me setting a boundary for you saying, Scott, I need you to do this.

[00:24:57] And you, Scott, as an adult [00:25:00] male, as an adult, anybody is you can ask, but you can't tell me because I have choices so we could come to an agreement.

[00:25:08] Scott Maderer: I could choose to not come

[00:25:10] Tanya Gioia: home at 11. Or you could choose like he did to say yes. And then do what he pleases. And then do it anyway.

[00:25:16] Yeah. So that, that really clearly is not a boundary. I am not, my husband is 250 pounds. He is very muscular. I am not going to pack up the three and five year olds, roll them down the driveway, go 22 miles into town and carry him out of the bar. It's not going to happen. I can't enforce this. So it's not a boundary.

[00:25:41] I go to my Al Anon group and they say, Oh honey, that's not a boundary. We're going to tell you what a boundary is. A boundary is only something you have control over and you can enforce. So in this situation, what I had control over was to turn off the phone, [00:26:00] turn off the lights and go to bed. So I could get up in the morning and take care of those most precious people who really needed me because my real issue was not having him home.

[00:26:12] My real issue was Getting myself regulated so that I could go to bed and get up and take care of my children. I was leaving my regulation to him. So setting the boundary was about setting the boundary for me. And that's what I really suggest to a lot of people. And then the third piece, and this is one that you're gonna find a little bit of a struggle with sometimes, is look at for things that are going right.

[00:26:41] Always look for things that are going right and help things go right. So if dinner is happening and you're all sitting down to dinner, which is a great family time, and you can talk about things that are going right. They're going to want to come back and have dinner with you. But if you sit down to dinner and go [00:27:00] it's a nice view to show up.

[00:27:02] Glad you got here today. I guess we can't really expect you tomorrow, but yeah, it's nice for you to be here. That just fuels it. And I'm not saying that's easy, but the more you can help things go right, and the more you can talk about these positive things, those are three little steps you can do now.

[00:27:22] Most people need more help. Most people need to work out like I did, what's going on in their own hearts and minds so that they can live in their own integrity. And then you can begin to help the other person.

[00:27:38] Scott Maderer: You talk a lot too about, we've talked about treatment and support and sponsors and these sorts of things and some of the other options that are out there how is recovery not just.

[00:27:51] You mentioned earlier going to the 30 day, you go away for 30 days and now everything's fixed, right? You come home and everything's perfect, even though you come [00:28:00] back to the exact same environment that you left. And yes, you do. And it hasn't changed. So how is it bigger than that? You know what?

[00:28:08] Why is recovery more than just? Go get some treatment or go to a meeting or that kind of thing.

[00:28:15] Tanya Gioia: So think back to now, if you had kids or you have nieces or nephews at one point, they probably had a mobile over their crib and the mobile spins and it does what it does. If you touch any point on that mobile.

[00:28:29] It changes the whole dynamic of that mobile, right? So here's what I have seen in my own life and in the women that I work with lives. When they began to do self care, to do boundaries, to take care of themselves, and not in a way that puts somebody else down, in a way that takes care of themselves. taps the mobile and begins to change what is going on.

[00:28:58] The addict's [00:29:00] best chance of long term recovery is if the family chooses to deal with their issues too. Each family member chooses to deal with their issues too. What we have learned is we send that person away for 30 days. Maybe they get it. Maybe they don't, right? Recover 30 day recovery doesn't have a high rate of success.

[00:29:23] We send them away for 30 days, take them out of their environment because that's been the theory. But then they come back to crazy time at home. And

[00:29:36] I've had a lot of women say, They got to go away for 30 days and have their meals made and work on themselves and have this quiet time and be with other people. I've been holding it together all this time and, they get to do that, and I still have to hold the bag? Not cool. So if you're coming home to that environment, that's problematic.

[00:29:54] How it has shifted is there are a lot of programs [00:30:00] that talk about support for the family. What the family used to get was one week, maybe one day. of support in learning about what's happening and then back to Gabor Maté's theory, it's not about the addiction. The addiction is the solution. There's pain and the addiction is the solution to that pain until it's not, until it causes its own pain.

[00:30:22] Where's the pain? So working with the family is about okay. What is the bondage that's holding this in place? How are we continuing to recreate this scenario? Just like the dinner scenario that I just talked about was, if you're just going to be snappy, crabby, and ugly at the dinner table, when they choose to sit down with you, why would they come back?

[00:30:44] So that is what has shifted in the last, we've known for a long time that it's been an issue, but nobody's wanted to deal with it because it's slippery. Because the people who are in the family are like if they just clean up their mess, [00:31:00] it'll be fine. No, it's not fine. Because there's a reason why that mess is there.

[00:31:06] And there's a precursor to that reason that needs to be cleaned up too. It has a lot to do with forgiveness and how we get there is creating a space for that to happen. And if it is like my house, where it was everybody else's fault, but the person who was actually doing the action self included.

[00:31:25] Then there is no space for that.

[00:31:27] Scott Maderer: So it's about stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, both for the person that is suffering from the addiction, the substance abuse, but that larger system that they're placed in is part of what you have to heal to really heal the whole situation.

[00:31:48] Tanya Gioia: Let's put suffering where it is. Everybody is suffering. Otherwise the other people in the family would be like, yeah, go ahead, whatever 15 beers a night, or being [00:32:00] at work for 80, 90 hours a week, that's no big deal. We'll just live our lives without you. That's the disconnection.

[00:32:07] So we could live independently and disconnected, but that's not why God put us in families. God put us in families to build community. We build that community, then we go out and build more community, and then we expand the community. What we're seeing, and I fully believe in it, is when the family breaks down, the rest of the community starts to break down.

[00:32:25] We don't know our neighbors. We're not participating in school activities. We're not doing civic stuff. Because... It's a mess and we're totally disconnected and we're just drowning.

[00:32:36] Scott Maderer: So I've got a few questions that I like to ask everybody, but before I do that, is there anything else about the work that you do with women on this recovery journey and families on this recovery journey that you'd like to share with the Lister?

[00:32:52] Tanya Gioia: I think what I'd like to go back and reiterate is you are not God and you can't [00:33:00] save him. Nor did you cause it, nor can you cure it, nor can you control it. So let's take that burden off your back. On the other hand, what you can do is you are not powerless to make changes in your life that will dramatically affect how your marriage and your family functions.

[00:33:26] Scott Maderer: So my brand is Inspired Stewardship. And I run things through that lens of stewardship. And yet that's one of those words I've discovered over the years means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So when you hear that word stewardship what comes to mind for you and what is the impact of that understanding have

[00:33:43] Tanya Gioia: on you?

[00:33:45] So when I hear that, I think of the parable of the Talons and. When you look at this in a biblical context, we've all been given talents and abilities and ways [00:34:00] to serve other people. And we can take that and as one of the person who got the lease did say, Oh, I'm afraid to use that. I'm just going to bury it.

[00:34:11] And I'm not going to grow it in the way that God would like me to use it for service. Or we can take it and see where our talent is. And that may be in hospitality. That may be making a meal. That may be watching somebody's kids so they can get to a meeting. That may be that may be offering donations.

[00:34:33] It may be getting really deep in the work like you and I do. And opening up that can of worms. I see it as what are my talents, how can I share that with the world to increase the kingdom, to increase that, that you are creative, resourceful, and whole. And to confirm that for you, to walk with you in it [00:35:00] and to hold space for you.

[00:35:03] Scott Maderer: So this is my favorite question that I like to ask everybody. Imagine for a minute that I invented this magic machine and with the machine I could pluck you from where you are today and magically transport you into the future, maybe 150, maybe 250 years. And through the power of this machine, you were able to look back and see your entire life and see all of the connections, all of the ripples, all 400 chickens.

[00:35:28] Every impact that you'd left behind in the world, what impact do you hope you've left behind?

[00:35:36] Tanya Gioia: I am... missional about helping families. What we've got to do is shift this generational understanding that we're powerless. I know that because of the walk that we've done [00:36:00] and we took our kids with us they went to celebrate recovery.

[00:36:02] We went to the Betty Ford's children's program. We've talked about this. I know that has helped shape their life and their choices. What I want to do, and I'm trying to pick a number of how many families I'd like to help between now and the next 30 years or so of getting them the information and the resources they need to make.

[00:36:27] Choices for themselves. Cause as we talked about earlier, there's different paths. So I would like to look back on that and say, Oh yeah, the, this family was able to be really loving and nurturing with themselves and their children. This divorce didn't happen because they made some choices and I planted a small seed again, it's God who does the work, but I was able to plant a small seed and say, Hey, you have choices.

[00:36:53] You're not powerless. You can make some different decisions. 10 years from now will drastically change your [00:37:00] life. And I've gotta

[00:37:02] Scott Maderer: ask 'cause I would be remiss if I let you get off the show and I would get an angry email from somebody . So go back and explain the 400 chickens. .

[00:37:13] Tanya Gioia: So this was a really interesting experience.

[00:37:16] So we moved out on these 20 acres. And 20 acres in Colorado is not really it could be big somewhere in South Carolina and you could have horses and maybe a couple of cows on it, but we could pasture maybe for three weeks at a time. So my husband decided that he wanted to do a Joe Saladin raised chickens.

[00:37:37] We were reading, Oh, what's the guy that did the, all the food conversation. Oh, it slips my mind, but we were reading about being sustainable, growing your own food, doing all that kind of stuff. If you know anything about the hierarchies in Colorado, we just don't grow stuff. It's

[00:37:55] Scott Maderer: really hard.

[00:37:56] It's not the most agricultural rich [00:38:00] part of the country.

[00:38:01] Tanya Gioia: No it's hard. And Saladin was in like South Carolina or somewhere where they had all kinds of pasture. So my husband gets a box of chickens. My kids are young. They send them in the mail. Did you know that they sent them in the mail?

[00:38:12] So you're going on to the post office because they, we didn't get mail in our house. You go down to the post office. I've got a picture of my little three year old standing with all this little box of chicks and they're having a great time and we get 25. Okay. 25 chickens. And then he starts building mobile coops to move them around.

[00:38:30] So then we have a hundred chickens, a hundred layers. I'm like, okay, we got a hundred chickens. And then they just keep, we never were able to incubate. Somehow we just couldn't do that. They just keep coming in the mail. And suddenly when

[00:38:46] Scott Maderer: the

[00:38:47] Tanya Gioia: chickens just keep showing up and showing up. And I am the funniest story is I'm out there with my kids and we have roosters because we're trying to to get [00:39:00] eggs and to have, be able to breed our own.

[00:39:03] And the roosters are big. We've got three big roosters. I've got the dog out there, but we've trained him not to get the chickens because we don't want him to kill. The chickens, right? We said, don't do it. He's a boxer. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. So all his life, he said, don't do it. Don't do it.

[00:39:17] Don't do it. I'm on the swing set and I'll be darned if that big Rooster is not running for my three-year-old. And I'm like, oh no, this is

[00:39:28] Scott Maderer: not gonna happen. Yeah,

[00:39:30] Tanya Gioia: A rooster could be . I'm trying to get him off and he's not getting off. I run to the house. Get the shovel. I'm over there banging the chicken with the shovel and I'm telling the three year old to run to the house, run to the house.

[00:39:42] Chicken is cocking up with his spurs and all that stuff and I look at that dog and I'm like,

[00:39:50] That was all he needed. He took off after that rooster. That rooster went flying that way. I took the kid, ran in the house. It was scary. Those things can

[00:39:59] Scott Maderer: be really scary. Oh [00:40:00] no, roosters are big and they can be mean.

[00:40:02] Tanya Gioia: From that day forward... Jerry came home. My husband came home. I said that, I said, that rooster's got to die.

[00:40:07] He's which one? That one. I said, and so that night, that rooster,

[00:40:11] Scott Maderer: the one with lumps on his head from a shovel.

[00:40:14] Tanya Gioia: He met his end. My husband went out and took care of him. But then from that moment on, when we got new chickens, we really had to watch the dog because he would go, he'd get one. And he'd throw it up in the air and eventually he'd kill it and then he'd be really bored.

[00:40:30] He's like, why is it not moving? Why is it not moving? So we had to watch the dog, but that was probably one of the worst things. But we were doing eggs. We were doing eggs for a local five star and they were making homemade ice cream out of it. And we attempted meat birds. They look like foghorn leghorn red and white.

[00:40:49] Dumb. Really dumb. When you move the mobile coop, they go back to exactly where the coop was. They sit on top of each other because they don't like being out there open and [00:41:00] they smother each other or they drown in their water dish or they do all that kind of stuff. So

[00:41:04] Scott Maderer: you're saying that

[00:41:07] Tanya Gioia: yeah, if I never ever saw a chicken outside of its cellophane package, where it had been scanned and put in something that I could make dinner for.

[00:41:17] I will be perfectly happy for

[00:41:21] Scott Maderer: 400 chickens is a good amount of chickens. Sorry. I just had to, I had to go ahead and get that story out or else I knew I'd get an angry email from somebody.

[00:41:30] Tanya Gioia: It's one anything that you start you're we had this many and then we had this many.

[00:41:37] Wow. Now we have 400 chickens. You don't know how you got there. I,

[00:41:44] Scott Maderer: I, I actually serve on a board for a nonprofit and we do a sustainable farming and gardening. We work with honest or autistic youth and young adults and teach them gardening and farming skills and animal husbandry skills. And so we actually have [00:42:00] chickens.

[00:42:00] that we use for that, but it's not 400. It's like

[00:42:06] Tanya Gioia: 20. So a set of house chickens 12 chickens. So you can have eggs, a set of house chickens is fine, but 400 chickens, believe me, you don't want it.

[00:42:17] Scott Maderer: So what's coming next for you as you finish out the year and move into

[00:42:21] Tanya Gioia: 2024. So I am super excited.

[00:42:24] I am working with women right now and I'm expanding my dancing with joy program. And the idea is that God calls us to dance with him. He calls us to dance with him. And that's what brings the rest of our life into alignment. So as we're working on that, we're working on how do you become that cherished wife?

[00:42:48] How do you do less? and connect more and then always that generational legacy because we're training the next set of husbands and wives. So how do [00:43:00] you teach them to look for the source rather than to turn to resources or as I did a job, a man, more money, whatever. is going to fill me up. So that's a program that I'm running right now, where we've really got some great things going on, especially around boundaries.

[00:43:18] And then the last thing I just did a conversation on was the anatomy of a peaceful heart and how that changes how you step into the conversations with your loved ones.

[00:43:31] Scott Maderer: You can find out more about Tanya Joya on our website. It's over at tanyajoya. com. That's T A N Y A G I O I A dot com. Of course, I'll have a link to that over in the show notes as well.

[00:43:47] Tanya, anything else you'd like to share with

[00:43:49] Tanya Gioia: the lister? Absolutely. I I administer a Facebook group called Rise Above Addiction. Love to have you join us there. [00:44:00] You can find it anywhere on Facebook. We do live trainings on Fridays, and then you can really get to know the group gets to know me, and we would love to pray for you.

[00:44:11] So be sure and hop on the website. We will have the Facebook there. We'll have the dancing with joy program there as well. And would love to be talking to you about how you. are not powerless and you are the expert in your family and how you can shift this for more love and more joy.

[00:44:35] Scott Maderer: Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast. As a subscriber and listener, we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen, but act on what you've heard and find a way to live your calling. If you enjoyed this episode please do us a favor, go over to inspired stewardship.

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